TF Continuity

[formerly nortagem]

RID, AEC, Animated, and Movie say otherwise

Actually, no, they don't. RiD never even touched upon the origins of the Transformers, and several characters from that reality were pulled into the Universe story line, and eventually crossed over into the Unicron Trilogy continuity. Among them were RiD Optimus Prime and Ultra Magnus. And they ended up stranded in that reality. The movie hasn't gone in depth enough into their origins, and the All Spark cube is a proxy of Primus, one of his avatars,much like the Matrix and Vector Sigma, according to Takara's official website. So no, they don't say otherwise.

What's your take on Animated & its connection?

[Tramp]

RID, AEC, Animated, and Movie say otherwise

Actually, no, they don't. RiD never even touched upon the origins of the Transformers, and several characters from that reality were pulled into the Universe story line, and eventually crossed over into the Unicron Trilogy continuity. Among them were RiD Optimus Prime and Ultra Magnus. And they ended up stranded in that reality. The movie hasn't gone in depth enough into their origins, and the All Spark cube is a proxy of Primus, one of his avatars,much like the Matrix and Vector Sigma, according to Takara's official website. So no, they don't say otherwise.

What's your take on Animated & its connection?

Like RiD, Animated never got into the actual origins of the Transformers at all, and thus there is nothing to contradict its place within the greater multiverse. The AllSpark is just another physical manifestation of Primus.

[Tramp]

IMO Hasbro/Takara would be better off just letting all the different universes exist as their own continuities...

They are their own continuities, they simply have a unified origin and a specific group of individuals who are inherently connected to them all as unique beings. Everything else about the various continuities is separate and unique to each.

[Tramp]

IMO Hasbro/Takara would be better off just letting all the different universes exist as their own continuities...

They are their own continuities, they simply have a unified origin and a specific group of individuals who are inherently connected to them all as unique beings. Everything else about the various continuities is separate and unique to each.

IMO Hasbro/Takara would be better off just letting all the different universes have their own unique origins and no specific group of individuals who are inherently connected to them all as unique beings. :)

That's just it. The origins are one of the key factors which unites a franchise as a franchise. It's what gives the franchise its identity. Every Superman reboot starts with the same origin story. Every Batman reboot starts with the same origin story. The same with Spiderman, and every other franchise out there, no matter how many times the story is retold and re-imagined. The origin remains the same. Every retelling of the Aurthurian legends has the same origin tale. These are what bind these stories together as a single franchise or mythos. Transformers is a mythos with a vast, ever growing collection of stories. What binds them together as a mythos is that origin. Without that, they might as well be all completely different franchises with their own completely different titles and characters with no relation to one another. What is Batman without the deaths of his parents in Crime Alley? What is Superman without his being sent off in a ship just before his homeworld explodes, and his being subsiquently raised by Jonathan and Martha Kent? What is Spiderman without being bitten by that mutated spider and his Uncle Ben being murdered by that criminal Peter had allowed to escape? What is King Arthur without his drawing the sword from the stone? What is Transformers without Primus and Unicron?

 

What ties all of these disparate continuities together as a unified whole is their origin. It's Primus, it's Unicron. It's the Thirteen. It's their origin. Without some unifying element, namely an origin story, all you have is a tangled mess of stories with no connections as a single franchise. Primus, Unicron, and The Thirteen, provide that binding element.

[JOP]

Actually, things like that slip through the cracks all of the time. They happened on more than one occasion in the Star Wars Prequels, for instance. One of the biggest was when Palpatine said "I will not let this republic, which has stood for a thousand years..." This statement was an error because it contradicted a specific piece of information already established about how long the Republic had been in existence. That statement came from A New Hope, the very first SW movie, when Ben Kenobi said, "For a thousand Generations], the Jedi knights have been guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic." Note the key words there, years verses generations. That one little gaff in the Prequels. No one caught it until after the movie came out. So, it really isn't that hard for an error like that to slip through.

I would suggest that the example you cite is only superficially similar to the thirteen / seven issue, primarily by virtue of a shared numerical basis.

 

For instance: do the above two Star Wars lines even represent a conflict? Sure, one says 'years' and the other says 'generations'... but Palpatine also says "This republic", and Kenobi "The Old Republic". How can we be so sure they both refer to the same entity? (A situation that was explored in extended universe material covering the Ruusan Reformation of the Galactic Republic.)

 

Now lets look at the, by comparison, incredibly simple mythology of the Transformers franchise. There's Unicron, there's Primus, and there's the Thirteen. The very defining quality of the Thirteen - there's thirteen of them - is right there in the name! Now, if Palpatine referred to the Jedi as "Judo Knights", that would be on the same level.

 

And anyhow, assuming for one moment that maybe George Lucas did make a mistake, and wrote 'years' when he meant 'generations': I think a single individual, attempting to single-handedly write, produce, and direct three films, can be forgiven for the occasional slip-up. Hasbro, on the other hand - based on the importance you assert they maintain toward their unifying mythos - must have employed someone, if not multiple people, to review the film prior to release. Considering that Unicron isn't present in the film, and Primus isn't present in the film, there's really not a whole lot of items to fact-check... and still the Thirteen are represented as 'the seven'.

 

Unicron is not simply an aspect of TF lore. He has been a major player in nearly every incarnation of the Transformers since his inception. He's appeared in every rendition of G1, he was in Beast Wars and BW Neo, he was the major threat in the Unicron Trilogy, He was the main bad guy in Universe. He has had one of the greatest impacts on the TF mythos., and, on top of that, his appearance has changed very little in all of this time. Optimus Prime has had more changes in design that Unicron. I would call that a very iconic character who has had a major impact on the mythos.

You keep confusing Unicron's status as a powerful entity with his importance to the franchise. Sure he was a major antagonist in G1 - did he receive as much exposure as Optimus Prime or Megatron? He was a major antagonist in AEC - did he receive as much screen time as Optimus Prime or Megatron? Heck, did he receive as much screen time as Hot Shot? Let's really go out there... did he he receive as much screen time as Rad, Carlos, Alexis, Kicker, Coby, Bud and Lori?

 

For a supposedly essential cornerstone of the franchise, he sure doesn't get much limelight, does he?

 

As for Warpath, no, he isn't. He's a relative minor character who has only really played any significant role in G1, and hasn't even really appeared in any other continuity since, bar a cameo in Animated as a direct homage to G1, and as a toy for the movie line, and even that wasn't even a tank. it was a repaint of Cybertron Overhaul. So, no, Warpath is far from iconic. Unicron has appeared as a major player in virtually every continuity and has been virtually unchanged in appearance of character. That makes him iconic.

Precisely my point - you can't infer protected franchise status just because a character maintains a certain appearance, especially a character whose subsequent appearances are straight homages to his first depiction. Similarly, arguing that Optimus Prime and Megatron's shifting appearances doesn't make them less iconic - it means Hasbro were much more interested in selling toys of these two characters. In the so-called Unicron Trilogy, Unicron gets only two toys - and one of them is a repaint! How many toys did Prime and Megatron get, by comparison?

 

Finally, and I think this is the forth time I've asked this: how does Unicron's importance to the mythology trump Michael Bay's twice-proven ability to deliver record-breaking box office and toy product sales? If Michael Bay essentially offers Brian Golder $600 million worth of product sales at the expense of turning Unicron into a cloud, what is it about Unicron that will motivate Goldner to say no?

 

The difference between a character like Optimus Prime or Megatron, and Unicron, Primus, or the Thirteen, is that each version of Optimus Prime, or each version of Megatron in each reality is a completely different character each is entirely independent of the other versions. RID Optimus Prime has no relation to G1 Optimus Prime, and he has no relation to Movie Optimus Prime, or Animated Optimus Prime, or Shattered Glass Optimus Prime, etc. Each is their own character existing in their own reality. Each is separate from the others. Primus is the same Primus in every reality, whether it's in Sunbow G1, Marvel G1, RiD, the Unicron Trilogy, Universe, etc. He is still the exact same being, not a different Primus in each. Primus exists as a singular entity—a singular consciousness in all of the multiverse. That is what makes him a multiversal singularity. Every "version" of Primus is the exact same Primus as any other "version. They are not different beings in each reality, they are all the same being. There is only one Primus. Unicron in any G1 reality is the same Unicron as in the UT, or RiD, or Universe, etc. The same with the Thirteen, there is only one of each of the Thirteen in all of the Multiverse. That is what makes them multiversal singularities. What makes Primus and Unicron different is that Unicron is trapped within a singular physical form and has to travel between realities whereas Primus' consciousness is connected to various Cybertron "nodes" throughout the multiverse, much like a computer network all connected to a single main server, to use an analogy.

 

The nature of each of the Thirteen varies form member to member depending upon their primary function. Some are like Unicron and only exist in a single reality at a time. others are like Primus and exist simultaneously in all realities at once yet still a singular being. Vector Prime, as Guardian of Space and time existed primarily outside of the flow of Space and time so that he could watch over all of it, and then, when the need arose, he could enter the time-stream of any given reality when needed. The Fallen was guardian over the Universal force of Entropy, but fell under the sway of Unicron after becoming obsessed with the darker aspects of his domain. He was thus imprisoned in a pocket dimension along with Unicron. Alpha Trion is believed to be one of their number, and was charged by Primus as Guardian of Cybertron itself and Vector Sigma, thus, he exists in all realities at once.

 

Thus, the difference between a "universal entity", as you called it, and a multiversal singularity, is that a universal being exists within a single universe and any version of that being in any given universe is its own being separate from any other version in any other given reality, whereas a multiversal singularity exists as a singular being in all of the multiverse, whether existing in all realities at once or travelling between them, but always as a singular unique entity.

Then the problem here is that 'multiversal entity' is being defined rather simplistically as 'there's only one instance of the character in all the multiverse' whereas a more accurate description might be 'a singular character that exists beyond normal universal limits and may span multiple continuities'.

 

Also... how do we know that Alpha Trion is a multi-bodied, singular consciousness like Primus? That sounds rather conjectural.

 

The point of the multiverse is to allow every story be canon regardless of the continuity it takes place in. It keeps all of them "true", rather than old continuities being overwritten by new ones. Everything remains true. Everything remains fact. Primus and Unicron, and the Thirteen give a unifying framework for the multiverse as a whole allowing the divergent realities to have a single root to anchor them as a greater whole but still branch out into multiple directions. That is the advantage.

Wait, what?

 

"The point of the multiverse is to allow every story to be canon regardless of the continuity it takes place in"?

 

When we talk about 'canon', we refer to the idea that a judging body (usually the author(s) of a group of works) can label certain works as more or less authoritative. When conflicts arise between works, the more authoritative work trumps the less authoritative work.

 

When we talk about continuity, we refer to the idea of a fictional universe - a self-consistent fictional setting.

 

By their very nature continuities do not have to be consistent with one another unless specified by the authoring body (making them, in effect, all sub-continuities of a master continuity.) As a result - and in lieu of any clear demarcation from Hasbro - every major depiction of a Transformers continuity could be considered of equal canonical status.

 

A multiversal narrative that ties together the multiple continuities of the Transformers franchise does absolutely nothing to make said continuities canonical. Furthermore, I'm not sure what problem it is you refer to - with the old continuities being overwritten by newer ones. Again, unless Hasbro specifies otherwise, these simply represent branching, alternate continuities.

 

And in terms of ensuing that the most important elements of the Transformers franchise are retained from depiction to depiction, again, this is something that can be achieved without an overarching multiversal narrative. You've already stated yourself that Hasbro has an in-house 'brand bible'; all Hasbro would need to do is add entries for Unicron, Primus, and the Thirteen.

 

The linking narrative you describe is setting out to fix a problem that only occurs if there is a linking narrative! And even then, it solves the problem less elegantly than if there was no linking narrative at all, as by its very nature conflicts are generated that require resolution. And finally, I'm still unsure as to how exactly Hasbro benefits from all of this, at least in a way where simply putting a few extra pages in the brand bible would have sufficed.

 

You don't need an overarching multiversal supercontinuity just to tell a good origin story...

[Tramp]

I would suggest that the example you cite is only superficially similar to the thirteen / seven issue, primarily by virtue of a shared numerical basis.

 

For instance: do the above two Star Wars lines even represent a conflict? Sure, one says 'years' and the other says 'generations'... but Palpatine also says "This republic", and Kenobi "The Old Republic". How can we be so sure they both refer to the same entity? (A situation that was explored in extended universe material covering the Ruusan Reformation of the Galactic Republic.)

 

Now lets look at the, by comparison, incredibly simple mythology of the Transformers franchise. There's Unicron, there's Primus, and there's the Thirteen. The very defining quality of the Thirteen - there's thirteen of them - is right there in the name! Now, if Palpatine referred to the Jedi as "Judo Knights", that would be on the same level.

 

And anyhow, assuming for one moment that maybe George Lucas did make a mistake, and wrote 'years' when he meant 'generations': I think a single individual, attempting to single-handedly write, produce, and direct three films, can be forgiven for the occasional slip-up. Hasbro, on the other hand - based on the importance you assert they maintain toward their unifying mythos - must have employed someone, if not multiple people, to review the film prior to release. Considering that Unicron isn't present in the film, and Primus isn't present in the film, there's really not a whole lot of items to fact-check... and still the Thirteen are represented as 'the seven'.

That error in Palpatine's lines is what caused the idea of the "Ruusan Reformation". It is still the same Republic though. The Ruusan reformation simply reorganized and restructured it. The whole thing was a result of a screw-up in one line in AotC. The Republic existed for over 25,000 years, constantly evolving over that time, particularly during conflicts with the Sith, but always enduring. The slip up about it being in existence for only 1,000 years as opposed to 1,000 generations, as established in ANH, caused a major problem in continuity which had to be addressed in fiction. Lucas Ltd. keeps that strict of a control on the canon of Star Wars. Everything has to fit. Every continuity error has to be explained. The "Old republic" that Obi-Wan referred to is the Republic of the Prequels. Here is his full line from ANH: "For over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times. Before the Empire." His statement is that the Jedi Knights had been guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic continuously for over 1000 generations, right up until the rise of the Empire.

 

You keep confusing Unicron's status as a powerful entity with his importance to the franchise. Sure he was a major antagonist in G1 - did he receive as much exposure as Optimus Prime or Megatron? He was a major antagonist in AEC - did he receive as much screen time as Optimus Prime or Megatron? Heck, did he receive as much screen time as Hot Shot? Let's really go out there... did he he receive as much screen time as Rad, Carlos, Alexis, Kicker, Coby, Bud and Lori?

 

For a supposedly essential cornerstone of the franchise, he sure doesn't get much limelight, does he?

Did Sauron get a lot of limelight in Lord of the Rings? No. He remained in the background, manipulating everything. He was, however, central to the story itself. Everything was happening because of him. The same is true of Transformers. The Transfoemrs were created because of Primus' need to stop Unicron. The Fallen fell because of Unicron. Megatron became Galvatron because of Unicron. The minicons were created because of Unicron. The whole Universe story line, as well as the whole Unicron Trilogy revolved around Unicron. He was the ultimate villain pulling all of the strings. Screen time does not necessarily equate to importance. His eternal battle with Primus is the central theme which drove the entire TF mythos and brought the Transformers into being in the first place, and is central to their destinies. Unicron is an extremely important part of this franchise, as is Primus. They have been since virtually the very beginning. The Thirteen have as well.

 

Precisely my point - you can't infer protected franchise status just because a character maintains a certain appearance, especially a character whose subsequent appearances are straight homages to his first depiction. Similarly, arguing that Optimus Prime and Megatron's shifting appearances doesn't make them less iconic - it means Hasbro were much more interested in selling toys of these two characters. In the so-called Unicron Trilogy, Unicron gets only two toys - and one of them is a repaint! How many toys did Prime and Megatron get, by comparison?

The number of toys a character has isn't the point. Hasbro and Takara have been constantly trying to design and build a Unicron toy since 1986. The Armada version was the first time they actually had a viable model. The previous prototypes didn't work out nearly as well and/or failed to fully capture the character. And also, Unicron has had Three transforming toys, not only two. You have the Armada toy and it's repaint for Energon, then you have the Cybertron deluxe class Unicron toy. And even then, the deluxe toy still had Unicron's iconic appearance.

 

Finally, and I think this is the forth time I've asked this: how does Unicron's importance to the mythology trump Michael Bay's twice-proven ability to deliver record-breaking box office and toy product sales? If Michael Bay essentially offers Brian Golder $600 million worth of product sales at the expense of turning Unicron into a cloud, what is it about Unicron that will motivate Goldner to say no?

For the same reason that Hasbro insisted on Optimus having his red chest, characteristic face plate (at least some of the time), have full wheels on his legs, not unwrapped spirals, and be a semi truck. The same reason why Bumblebee had to be yellow and black, and his character remain mostly intact (even if he couldn't actually speak). They certainly would never allow Bay to make Unicron a cloud or some such because, Hasbro will most certainly want to make a toy of Unicron should he be in the movie. You can't do that with a shapeless cloud. Hasbro would also want Unicron to be instantly recognizable, because that too would be a major selling point of both the movie and toy. Thus, there is a financial reason to make sure he maintains his iconic appearance.

 

Then the problem here is that 'multiversal entity' is being defined rather simplistically as 'there's only one instance of the character in all the multiverse' whereas a more accurate description might be 'a singular character that exists beyond normal universal limits and may span multiple continuities'.

Thatis what it means—a singular being who exists as a unique entity throughout the multiverse either traveling between realities or simultaneously in all of them at once. Secondly, it's not a Multiversal "entity". The proper term is multiversal singularity.

 

Also... how do we know that Alpha Trion is a multi-bodied, singular consciousness like Primus? That sounds rather conjectural.

Alpha Trion has been stated or implied (depending upon the source) to be one of the Thirteen. In the G1 episode The Key to Vector Sigma part 2, Alpha Trion himself says, "I am a first generation product of Vector Sigma." Vector Sigma is the physical manifestation of Primus. It is Primus. Alpha Trion is a fiurst genreration creation of Primus. That makes him one of the Thirteen. His MtMtE profile also states, "Considered a myth by most, Alpha trion is believed to be one of the first Transformers." The Ultimate Guide also confirms this in the section on The Well of All Sparks stating, "Through its guardian, Alpha Trion[/i], Primus kept vigil over his children." Alpha Trion was Primus' chosen guardian over the Well of All Sparks. HE serves this function in G1, in Universe, In the Unicron Trilogy, etc. Simon Furman has also gone on record saying that Alpha Trion was on his list of characters for The Thirteen as one of the groups members, along with Vector Prime and The Liege Maximo. He appears in virtually every continuity as essentially the same being with the same function—as Primus' chosen guardian. The only instance where this is "apparently" contradicted is with the Shattered Glass "Alpha Trion", who is an evil incarnation, who had posed as the real McCoy in Transtech until revealign his true colors. However, this too could simply mean that this so-called "Alpha Trion" may be just a doppleganger, and not the real deal. The story has yet to unfold, however. The key point is that Alpha Trion has been shown and said to be one of the Thirteen—one of Primus original creations, and one of his chosen Guardans over some aspect of reality (namely the Well of All Sparks and Vector Sigma). In order to fulfill that function, he would need to be a multiversal singularity. And, given his function, he would almost certainly need to exist in all realities at once, just like Primus.

 

Wait, what?

 

"The point of the multiverse is to allow every story to be canon regardless of the continuity it takes place in"?

 

When we talk about 'canon', we refer to the idea that a judging body (usually the author(s) of a group of works) can label certain works as more or less authoritative. When conflicts arise between works, the more authoritative work trumps the less authoritative work.

 

When we talk about continuity, we refer to the idea of a fictional universe - a self-consistent fictional setting.

 

By their very nature continuities do not have to be consistent with one another unless specified by the authoring body (making them, in effect, all sub-continuities of a master continuity.) As a result - and in lieu of any clear demarcation from Hasbro - every major depiction of a Transformers continuity could be considered of equal canonical status.

 

A multiversal narrative that ties together the multiple continuities of the Transformers franchise does absolutely nothing to make said continuities canonical. Furthermore, I'm not sure what problem it is you refer to - with the old continuities being overwritten by newer ones. Again, unless Hasbro specifies otherwise, these simply represent branching, alternate continuities.

 

And in terms of ensuing that the most important elements of the Transformers franchise are retained from depiction to depiction, again, this is something that can be achieved without an overarching multiversal narrative. You've already stated yourself that Hasbro has an in-house 'brand bible'; all Hasbro would need to do is add entries for Unicron, Primus, and the Thirteen.

 

The linking narrative you describe is setting out to fix a problem that only occurs if there is a linking narrative! And even then, it solves the problem less elegantly than if there was no linking narrative at all, as by its very nature conflicts are generated that require resolution. And finally, I'm still unsure as to how exactly Hasbro benefits from all of this, at least in a way where simply putting a few extra pages in the brand bible would have sufficed.

 

You don't need an overarching multiversal supercontinuity just to tell a good origin story...

First off, it's not an "overarching multiversal superconitnuity", as you put it. IT is many divergent continuities all having a single origin point and a singular group of entities which govern all of them. Primus, protector of all of creation—a singlular being manifest in every reality at once in the form of the planet Cybertron, bonded to each reality through various talismans (the Matrix, Vector Sigma, the AllSpark cube, etc.), Unicron, the Chaos Bringer and destroyer of realities— a singular being who travels from one reality to the next as he corrupts and consumes them (or is somehow driven out), And the Thirteen—the very first creations of Primus, created to crew his planetary form and stand guard over various aspects of creation, many of whom were killed in the first ancient battle against Unicron and the traitor forever known as The Fallen. That is the origin.

 

Secondly, IF you look at most comics and franchises, when they do reboots, anything that was established previously to that reboot is usually completely voided. They basically start over with a clean slate. Whatever happened before the reboot is rendered "non-canon" by the powers that be, as if it never happened. All that matters is the current continuity. This isn't the case with Transformers. Everything ever published, everything ever produced for animation, etc. remains part of continuity in some reality. Every continuity is maintained as "real" and true. Any ret-cons added into the mythos don't wipe out previous continiuites or stories within them, but do reinterpret certain pieces of information that affects parts of those stories, as exampled by the retroactive introduction of Primus into G1 cartoon continuity re-tconning how what we learned bout the Quintessons in Five Faces of Darkness is interpreted without actually voiding the information or story.

 

Also, without the multiversal nature of TF canon, you couldn't have stories like Universe or Timelines. Even stories like the Unicron Trilogy would be impossible. These were all based upon the premise of the multiverse governed by Primus and Unicron, and the Thirteen. Thus, the multiverse formes the backbone of the TF mythos and it's myriad continuities. It is what allows them all to be told and all remain true rather than get superseded by each subsequent incarnation. It is also what allows stories to be told of characters travelling form one reality to the next, as in the current Fun Publications fiction for the OTFCC and BotCon.

[Th 4RL deal]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but for TFs there is only ONE Primus, Unicron, 13, etc. over ALL of the continuities? That's different from the examples you listed. While they all had similar or even identical origin stories, they were each separate from each other and not necessarily shared over all the different continuities. For a simple example, in the original comics Spider-Man was bitten by a radioactive spider. In the Ultimate and movie origins, he was bitten by a genetically altered spider.

 

And I don't think individual TFs mythos need Primus, Unicron, etc. TFs were TFs before those story elements were ever invented, afterall.

 

:agree Seems like a perfectly reasonable and thoroughly logical explanation to me.

[Tramp]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but for TFs there is only ONE Primus, Unicron, 13, etc. over ALL of the continuities? That's different from the examples you listed. While they all had similar or even identical origin stories, they were each separate from each other and not necessarily shared over all the different continuities. For a simple example, in the original comics Spider-Man was bitten by a radioactive spider. In the Ultimate and movie origins, he was bitten by a genetically altered spider.

 

And I don't think individual TFs mythos need Primus, Unicron, etc. TFs were TFs before those story elements were ever invented, afterall.

 

:agree Seems like a perfectly reasonable and thoroughly logical explanation to me.

The "alteration" from a radioactive spider to a "Genetically engineered" one is a minor point, one that doesn't really change anything of significance to the origin tale. It's an evolution of the same story to reflect the times and current science. The root origin story itself though is still the same—the same sequence of events, the same characters, the same locations, etc. Everything remains essentially the same regardless of the continuity.

 

The same is true of Transformers, the origin story must remain consistent, and Hasbro in particular, wants a single, definitive origin story to govern all continuities.

[dcj91x]

^Do they... Then why did they allow bay to change things so dramatically?

[Tramp]

^Do they... Then why did they allow bay to change things so dramatically?

He hasn't changed things that dramatically. I would have to say that he really hasn't changed much of anything at all. First off, the complete origin story hasn't even been told yet. We've only gotten bits and pieces of it over the years. We don't even have the identities of all of the Thirteen yet, only the identities of a handful of them have been confirmed. We don't know exactly what The Fallen did when he betrayed Primus and the other twelve. The information from RotF simply adds one more piece to the puzzle. Simon Furman said in a recent interview that the reason The Thirteen is on hold right now is becasue the story has become more Hasbro's deal than IDW's, and Hasbro needs to finalize everythign they way they want it before the project can continue to the next step. Here is the excerpt from the interview"

 

"5. You always seem to have a lot on your plate! So what other projects are you working on right now? Any news or teasers you can throw in about The Thirteen?

 

SF) The Thirteen is probably not going to happen for a while, as it’s become more of a Hasbro thing than an IDW thing, and Hasbro need to crystallise the whole concept before it can be turned into a comic book. I think and hope it will still happen, as it’s a story I’d dearly love to tell, but I have no firm grasp or when or in what form it will eventually see print. Other than that, I’m working on Tales of the Fallen for IDW, Transformers UK vol 2 for Titan, Starcraft for Wildstorm, a movie script and I have two books out in June: Transformers: The Movie Universe and Rad Robots."

—Simon Furman interview

 

Here is all we know about The Thirteen, and origins of the Transformes:

 

At the beginning of time, The One created Primus and Unicron to explore Creation, and they spread themselves throughout the multiverse creating worlds and life. Then Unicron became twisted and a force of chaos and destruction, seeking to destroy everything. Primus took on the form of the planet Cybertron and created thirteen beings from his own body. These original Thirteen were meant to crew Cybertron as well as watch over various aspects of creation. One of their number betrayed the others and joined with Unicron, becoming The Fallen. After a great battle, resulting in the deaths of several members, Unicron and The Fallen were cast into a pocket dimension and imprisoned. From the remaining members of the Thirteen, the Transformers race descended. That is everything we know up to this point. That is the core of the Transformers origin story.

 

Did Bay really change that origin story? No. Not really. He didn't reveal all of the elements of it, much of which we can expect to be revealed later (especially if Unicron does make his appearance in a later film) but the core story is still there. The All Spark cube is an Avatar of Primus, and created the Thirteen from the very ground of Cybertron, each of them capable of trans-versing dimensions to fulfill their duties to The All Spark. This is the same as the core origin story. They travel the multiverse seeking stars to feed the All Spark (Primus), while watching over creation and protecting the new life arising. This too isn't anything contradictory. It does add a new element to the story (that being needing to feed Primus energy from stars) From these beings, arise the Transformers to assist them. This too matches up with the core origin. One of their number betrays the others ostensibly to take all of the power of the All Spark for himself (betraying Primus). Though what exactly drove him to this in the first place hasn't been revealed yet (Unicron?). This too matches up with the core story, The Fallen betrays Primus and his fellow Primes. A great battle is fought, many Primes are killed, and The Fallen is imprisoned in a pocket dimension. Once again, this falls in line with the core story.

 

Everything from the movie (and the adaptions and Prequels) lines up while adding new details to the story and leaving other details to be revealed at a later date.