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Lord Atmo

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*observes*

 

Lord Atmo, Starscream never once played off his looks. You're imagining things.

 

but whatevs

 

How can you say he didn't play off his looks? The way he stood, the way he'd look at someone one, the way he'd sweep his arms. Look around at all the screen captures from various G1 episodes. That Seeker played his looks very much. Its even on the back of his box in his bio that he considered himself the handsomest Decepticon and just the way he'd sweep his arm out to point to something was almost striking a pose. I don't know what G1 you watched but Starscream's looks helped convey his arrogance to a the max and he was well aware of it.

 

Hmmm. I wonder how the fact he looked exactly like two other Decepticons factor in to that "handsomest" Decepticon theory.

 

Three, if you count Sunstorm.

 

And gesturing does not count as playing off of one's looks. Wooing women to steal a helicopter like Face in the A-Team is playing off your looks. Luring your enemy into a false sense of security due to your size is playing off your looks. Screamer never did anything like that.

 

Welcome to the boards. :wave

 

Sure TC and Warp looked like SS so you can say that 'handsomest factor' applies to them as well. Its the personalities that distinguished the form and you could tell just by how each one was animated who was who. Pull out some DVDs and watch and ep or two and look for it. Its there. Starscreams looks were a big part of defining him and its everywhere.

 

And Sunstorm was a clone of Starscream so of course hes going to look the same as well. ;)

 

And watch Auto Berserk and watch SS lure Red alert. . . he couldnt have done it as chubscream thats for sure...

 

And thanks for the welcome but understand the SS redesign issue is a huge thing with me and I wont accept what we have now and have no bones about speaking up about it.

 

i cling to G1 because in that "universe", starscream looks awesome and badass. his evil youthful elegant appearance with his persona was what made him a favorite for me. i'm not accepting this movie when bayscream's making me vomit. and then the vomit i produce looks a lot better than that piece of Blot robot they actually called "starscream"

 

bottom line: no elegance, no dice. i hope the reason we haven't seen or heard much about bayscream lately was because bay pulled him out of the movie completely. which is good. if he cant do it right, he shouldnt do it. and again, the bottom line is: make him slender or dont make him at all. i will NEVER accept that fatass abomination as "starscream". he will forever be bayscream to me, a distant cousin of Starscream

 

QFT

 

Starscream's elegant appearance was the same boxy design that everyone else had. Seriously. Go look at the cartoon. They all had cube shoulders, slightly smaller cube biceps, and "double-length" cube forearms.

 

Not to mention (as Hobbes alluded to) the fact that Skywarp and Thundercracker had COMPLETELY different personalities from Starscream and each other, and yet they all inhabited the EXACT SAME BODY. How is it possible that a youthful, elegant body could work with a tough grizzled vet like Thundercracker, or an upstart smartass like Skywarp? MAYBE BECAUSE THE CHARACTERIZATION HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LOOKS AND A LOT MORE TO DO WITH THE WRITING / VOICE ACTING / CHARACTER DIRECTION.

 

Please understand this immediately. Thank you.

 

You bring up good points but at the same time also prove why Starscreams look was so much a part of him too. And if they didnt mean anything than why has his image stayed almost the same in all the reboots hasbros done since G1?

 

...

 

Lord Atmo. Honestly, how long ago was it since you've actually watched an episode from G1? Not what you remember, but actually played it on a screen, and watched it?

 

If that is more than 2 years ago, do us all a favour, and watch a couple of tose episodes. Then try and see if you can talk about a 'competent', 'awesome', 'badass' Starscream with a straight face.

 

Not saying this in an ironic or sarcastic fashion. I'm dead serious. Time colours and distorts our memories. And Strrscream sure ain;t 'youthful and elegant'.

 

Search Youtube for some G1 episodes. There's bound to be some there.

 

Also if you look on youtube you will find hundreds of videos of G1 Starscream and his image....think there would be that mane of munkyscream? Not happening...

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i'll base SS off of what i know about the A/E/C SS then. i sae every episode of those shows and he's pretty badass in all of them. not to mention slender and sleek, like he's supposed to be. i also saw G1 SS in TFTM, which i own. his scene where he had his shortlived moment of leading the decepticons is a pose bayscream could never pull off without looking stupid

You're talking about a stylized cartoon. Lots of cartoon stuff wouldn't work in reality.

 

And let's be totally clear about this: the movie is not just another version of the Transformers cartoon. It's the first time EVER that the franchise has been given a live-action treatment, unless you count Scramble City II, or Tommy and Powermaster Optimus Prime. So the comparisons don't work as well as you think they do. Plus -- and this is the most important part -- you have yet to see the movie. You don't know what Starscream is going to talk like, what he's going to move like, what he's going to say, etc. etc. etc. You are in no position to make a judgment call on his character in the movie because you haven't seen it yet.

*taps Pete on shoulder*

 

Say, you do realize you're trying to reason with a fanboy, right?

 

A Starscream fanboy no less.

 

Im a Starscream fanboy as well. There are a lot of us out there. Even stopped to consider all the reasons why SS has so many fans?

 

And NO ONE is in any position on this board to make a judgement on SSs character in this movie because no one has seen it either. So lets not just throw that out for SS fans ok?

 

i'll base SS off of what i know about the A/E/C SS then. i sae every episode of those shows and he's pretty badass in all of them. not to mention slender and sleek, like he's supposed to be. i also saw G1 SS in TFTM, which i own. his scene where he had his shortlived moment of leading the decepticons is a pose bayscream could never pull off without looking stupid

 

I got news for you...G1 Starscream looked stupid in that pose. Where does a Transformer even get a cape that size? Do they have Hot Topics on Cybertron?

 

Watch many Japanese TF series? ;)

 

:tflaugh

 

Pete in 1986: "What's with the ghey shoulder pads and cape?"

 

I think Starscream was striking a pose... not that there's anything wrong with that

 

Starscream was always striking a pose because he was vein and knew he looked good. Sure TC and Warp were his twims in a sense but they never realized how they looked so you never saw them do it.

 

See, its not that Starscream looked so much different then the other two. Its the fact that his persona realized how he looked and he played it to his advantage. That is part of his character that was destroyed when he was redesigned into Blot for Bays fantasies IMO. That redesign alone shows they didn't know his character so what faith should we have that they got the rest of his personality right?

 

And an off topic comment: the format of this messageboard SUCKS BALLS.....

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...

 

Lord Atmo. Honestly, how long ago was it since you've actually watched an episode from G1? Not what you remember, but actually played it on a screen, and watched it?

 

If that is more than 2 years ago, do us all a favour, and watch a couple of tose episodes. Then try and see if you can talk about a 'competent', 'awesome', 'badass' Starscream with a straight face.

 

Not saying this in an ironic or sarcastic fashion. I'm dead serious. Time colours and distorts our memories. And Strrscream sure ain;t 'youthful and elegant'.

 

Search Youtube for some G1 episodes. There's bound to be some there.

 

Also if you look on youtube you will find hundreds of videos of G1 Starscream and his image....think there would be that mane of munkyscream? Not happening...

No, ofcourse there wouldn't be. It would be rather difficult, with no video material of the Movie available at this time. And the amount of videos of G1 Starscream on youtube is not relevant at all to this discussion. I don't see why you would bring that up.

Also, the image of Starscream wasn't the point of discussion within this argument, but his behaviour. You would do well to read before you reply.

 

EDIT: Nevermind. I'm not going to waste my time discussion with someone who is;

 

A - A fanboy, which means not open for any form of reasonable discussion,

 

B - A flamer, who just came to this board (therefore, who is a n00b), with the apparent sole intent of getting into a flamewar about Starscream.

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Im a Starscream fanboy as well. There are a lot of us out there. Even stopped to consider all the reasons why SS has so many fans?

 

Rose tinted glasses?

 

i'll base SS off of what i know about the A/E/C SS then. i sae every episode of those shows and he's pretty badass in all of them. not to mention slender and sleek, like he's supposed to be. i also saw G1 SS in TFTM, which i own. his scene where he had his shortlived moment of leading the decepticons is a pose bayscream could never pull off without looking stupid

 

I got news for you...G1 Starscream looked stupid in that pose. Where does a Transformer even get a cape that size? Do they have Hot Topics on Cybertron?

 

Watch many Japanese TF series? ;)

 

God, no. Besides, the fact that they did stuff like that in other cartoons does not make it less silly.

 

See, its not that Starscream looked so much different then the other two. Its the fact that his persona realized how he looked and he played it to his advantage. That is part of his character that was destroyed when he was redesigned into Blot for Bays fantasies IMO.

 

And thank God it was destroyed. You retain stuff like that, and you get Scooby-Doo The Movie.

 

And an off topic comment: the format of this messageboard SUCKS BALLS.....

 

Then quit using it. It's win/win! :thumb

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Ok, I have a question for Hobbes-timus Prime and Cuban Pete.

I understand both of you are generally in favor of the new movie designs and the point of view that the characters shouldn't just be recreations of their G-1 counterparts. To a great extent I agree with you. Aside from Frenzy and Starscream I don't mind any any of the movie designs, and I think some of them are bad ass to be honest with you. I also agree with you that people who defend the G-1 designs for no other reason then they're G-1 designs need a wake-up call.

 

Well said.

Thank you.

 

Here's my question though. Is it possible that you're simply basing your defense of the movie's Starscream design for that reason, that it's the movie design?

 

I won't speak for Pete, but I don't think that's the case for me. As adamant a hater of the movie model as Lord Atmo has admitted that the design would be fine if it wasn't Starscream. I've heard a lot of Anti-Bay-Scream people say that. Which, to me, speaks to the idea that there's nothing inherently wrong with the design. In fact, I think he looks pretty badass. He certainly looks like he'd wipe the floor in a one-on-one battle with any other Starscream to date.

I would agree, if this wasn't Starscream it would be fine. That said, I'm not sure who else it could be. If it was a character specifically created for the movie then the design would be fine.

 

Like I said, I find most of the movie designs pretty cool, but they just dropped the ball on Starscream. There's no denying that the movie Starscream's very ape-like. Any way you cut it that's a bad thing. Starscream, in any incarnation, was never ape-like.

 

But why does "he was never ape-like before" automatically make it a bad thing? I mean, there was a point where Megatron was never a T-Rex before, but that worked out.

First off I have to disagree with you about Megatron. Actually I disliked everything about the "Beast Wars" series. Nothing about it worked, IMO. To each his own I guess.

As for the argument that just because he hasn't been ape-like doesn't mean he can't be ape-like now, well consider this; What if, for the new James Bond film Casino Royale, they signed a black actor to play James Bond? Now he may be a great actor, but that doesn't mean it would have been the right call. It's nothing against the potential black actor's abilities, it's just that the James Bond character has always been white, and a black James Bond just seems out of place.

It's the same for Starscream. Sure, there's nothing inherently wrong with making his body "ape-like," but it's just odd and out of place because it seems to contrast every other design that Starscream has had.

That wouldn't even be so bad if all the other characters were radical departures from their classic designs, but as we've seen it's been proven that Bay's team is capable of producing designs for characters that are realistic yet true to classic form.

 

Take Bumblebee and Optimus Prime. They did fantastic jobs creating live-action versions of them that are much more realistic then their G-1 version, but at the same time capture their classic design. Would it have been so hard to do the same for Starscream?

 

So please, try to base your opinions of the movie models on a character to character basis, not just "movie versions=good, G-1 designs=bad." There's nothing wrong with liking some movie models while thinking other suck. Most of them, IMO, rule. Starscream just sucks any way you cut it.

Defending the new movie designs blindly makes you no better then people who defend G-1 designs blindly.

 

Would it have been so hard to do the same for Starscream? I don't really know. Probably not. I don't see that as the issue, anyway. I personally, don't think the Starscream character works in a live action film. He's a whiny and comically ineffective warrior, and why he wasn't killed by Megs long ago remains a mystery.

 

Now, that works in a cartoon. I love Starscream in the cartoon. But when you've spent however many millions of dollars to render this guy on screen, and you've made deals with the military to get to be the first feature film to extensively shoot the Raptor for his alt. mode, do you really want the whiny, over-the-top coward on screen? Or do you want someone who can do some damage and pose a threat to your heroes?

 

Cause I don't think G1 Screamer ever posed a threat to anyone other than himself, and the occasional Decepticon plan. After all, he was the one who fired on the Ark in MTMTE, knocking Optimus into the Teletran-1 repair beam, and thusly awakening the Autobots on Earth. If he'd have thought before he acted, the Decepticons would've taken over this planet in a week's time.

 

Therefore, I'm expecting Movie Starscream's character to be vastly different from G1 Starscream, and that the almost complete redesign is to reflect that.

As for the comment that we don't know how Starscream will act, talk, etc... the writers have said that they kept the Starscream/Megatron dynamic from G-1 intact, so I think we can assume that the movie Starscream's character will be very close to the G-1 Starscream character.

 

And this is a good point, because I think the dynamic is distinctly different from the character's behavior. You can still have a strong leader and a treacherous second-in-command at odds with one another without one of them being an over-the-top cowardly whiner. And that alone is worthy of the name Starscream, IMO.

First, I would like to say that G-1 Starscream's lack of fighting skills can easily be explained. He used to be a scientist, cut him some slack :P

As for the move I agree completely that the G-1 Starscream character needs an overhaul for a feature film. I also agree that a treacherous second in command who's also a capable warrior is a great revision of the classic character. All though a little whining here and there wouldn't hurt ;)

 

Still, like I said before, Bay's team have proven that they are fully capable of creating models that are true to their respective character's roots, while at the same time being very realistic (Prime, Bumblebee, etc...). I see no reason why they couldn't do the same thing for Starscream while at the same time giving him the revamped character we've discussed. Take Armada Starscream. Different character (he was actually closer to the one we've discussed), but he still retained the same general design.

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Thank you.

 

You're welcome.

 

 

First off I have to disagree with you about Megatron. Actually I disliked everything about the "Beast Wars" series. Nothing about it worked, IMO. To each his own I guess.

As for the argument that just because he hasn't been ape-like doesn't mean he can't be ape-like now, well consider this; What if, for the new James Bond film Casino Royale, they signed a black actor to play James Bond? Now he may be a great actor, but that doesn't mean it would have been the right call. It's nothing against the potential black actor's abilities, it's just that the James Bond character has always been white, and a black James Bond just seems out of place.

It's the same for Starscream. Sure, there's nothing inherently wrong with making his body "ape-like," but it's just odd and out of place because it seems to contrast every other design that Starscream has had.

That wouldn't even be so bad if all the other characters were radical departures from their classic designs, but as we've seen it's been proven that Bay's team is capable of producing designs for characters that are realistic yet true to classic form.

 

First off, I gotta say that its fine with me if you don't like BW, but you do realize you're in a minority on that one?

 

As for Bond, even with the actor they chose, there was a huge backlash against him: http://danielcraigisnotbond.com/

 

And just like with Starscream, there were predictions of bowwww bow bow bow bowww the franchise, and gloom and doom and, Oh! He'l never work as Bond!

 

But the nay-sayers were wrong. They may not like the selection for Bond, but Casino Royale is the highest grossing, most critically acclaimed Bond film to date. Craig is a great Bond and I expect him to have a fantastic run in the franchise. No, he's not the classically handsome fella that the previous Bonds were, but sometimes you just have to trust the professional storytellers to know what they're doing.

 

I suspect that's very much the case with Movie Starscream.

 

First, I would like to say that G-1 Starscream's lack of fighting skills can easily be explained. He used to be a scientist, cut him some slack :P

 

No way do I believe anyone that dumb was a scientist. More "it works in the cartoon when you're five" plot points.

 

As for the move I agree completely that the G-1 Starscream character needs an overhaul for a feature film. I also agree that a treacherous second in command who's also a capable warrior is a great revision of the classic character. All though a little whining here and there wouldn't hurt ;)

 

Still, like I said before, Bay's team have proven that they are fully capable of creating models that are true to their respective character's roots, while at the same time being very realistic (Prime, Bumblebee, etc...). I see no reason why they couldn't do the same thing for Starscream while at the same time giving him the revamped character we've discussed. Take Armada Starscream. Different character (he was actually closer to the one we've discussed), but he still retained the same general design.

 

I think the redesign physically comes from the overhaul of the character. I think that the idea was to drive the point home that this isn't the G1 Starscream, but another character with that name in order to prepare the fan audience for the departure, which you agree he needs.

 

Now, there are a lot of other arguments about jet size and robot mode scale and stuff that point to why we got the Starscream we got, and I think a lot of them are valid and necessary points. But I also think they're secondary to this Starscream being someone new, who we've never met before. Thus the redesign. They could've gone more G1, like Armada, but I think that in the long run, the really huge Starscream fans will be happier to see someone new up on screen when they realize that they're not watching G1 Screamer.

 

Whereas, with, for instance, the majority of the Autobots, there wasn't a lot of overhauling done to those characters, they were selected for their personalities, so the physical design is meant to evoke them more than for a character like Starscream, or Bonecrusher. You know, he's a radical departure, too, but no one's got a problem with that, for some reason.

 

Edited to add: Essentially, when you say:

 

If it was a character specifically created for the movie then the design would be fine.
My response is:

 

It is.
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hobbes, i agree to what you're saying. though i wish he didnt carry the name "Starscream". why make a new character and then slap some other character's name on him? are you implying he is starscream and is also not starscream? hell, i'd have goine with the name "Starsmash" or "Starslam" if the idea was to make something new to fill the role Starscream served in G1/A/E/C. the name change implying this is NOT Starscream, but some "cousin" or something, perhaps. if he's a new character, i wouldnt be mad about his robot mode because i had nothing in the past to compare it to!

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hobbes, i agree to what you're saying. though i wish he didnt carry the name "Starscream". why make a new character and then slap some other character's name on him?

 

Because that's an even older tradition in Transformers-dom. Copyrights and name recognition sell. Besides, he's the treacherous second-in-command who turns into a jet. That's pretty worthy of the Starscream name, to me.

 

are you implying he is starscream and is also not starscream?

 

Pretty much. Just like RID Prime is Optimus Prime, but he's not Energon Optimus Prime.

 

hell, i'd have goine with the name "Starsmash" or "Starslam" if the idea was to make something new to fill the role Starscream served in G1/A/E/C. the name change implying this is NOT Starscream, but some "cousin" or something, perhaps. if he's a new character, i wouldnt be mad about his robot mode because i had nothing in the past to compare it to!

 

Yeah, but Name Copyrights and Stuff. Transformers is a money-making proposition first, and a mythology second. Always has been, always will be.

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