C-Scourge still suffers from the animal limbs = robot limbs, though.  Which is why C-Snarl and even C-Backstop are very original and fun toys (well, for C-Backstop, as fun as a McD's Happy Meal toy can get).

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C-Scourge has some other things going for him.  1, he is a rather impressive looking dragon in the first place.  2, his color scheme, especially the airburshed purple bits, look fantastic, IMO.  3, he has a decent gimmick, in the extra 2 heads flipping up, and the lights, noise, and weapon are all well done.  Snarl is OK, i guess, but I think Backstop looks pretty silly.  He has a rhino butt for an arm. ;)

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No arguments there.  True, despite the fact that C-Scourge suffers from what I normally dislike about beastformers, he's amazing all the same. ;)

C-Scourge still suffers from the animal limbs = robot limbs, though.  Which is why C-Snarl and even C-Backstop are very original and fun toys (well, for C-Backstop, as fun as a McD's Happy Meal toy can get).

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C-Scourge has some other things going for him.  1, he is a rather impressive looking dragon in the first place.  2, his color scheme, especially the airburshed purple bits, look fantastic, IMO.  3, he has a decent gimmick, in the extra 2 heads flipping up, and the lights, noise, and weapon are all well done.  Snarl is OK, i guess, but I think Backstop looks pretty silly.  He has a rhino butt for an arm. ;)

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Cybertron Scourge is a big Playskool toy IMO

Shajaki had an interesting thought here that everyone seems to be overlooking just to have the same old beast vs. vehicle topic again...

 

Most collection pictures I see have most/all TFs in bot mode. Certainly there's a space issue, but I've seen it stated more than once that many collectors like purely the bot mode and/or rarely use the alt mode. Now if this is true, then do not animal transformers with beast forms offer 2 bot modes? (This is the idea, if I understand Shajaki correctly.)

 

If you're someone who likes the bot modes, what mode do like G1 Ravage in?Tape or Animal? If his animal form is appealing as a "bot" form, then at least the TM1 animal forms should hold that appeal as well.

 

Many BW molds, especially early on, had very static beast modes. But the TM1s most notably really make a Transformer into 2 action figures: a humanoid form and an animal form. Isn't that, in a way, somewhat advantageous over a humanoid transforming into a static box with wheels?

 

I don't mean to argue beasts are better than vehicles, but would hope such ideas might open up a little bit of appreciation for the beasts.

 

Personally I actually do not prefer beast alt modes. I like vehicles, I like construction equipment, I like military hardware, I LOVE airplanes! But what alt mode a figure has does not determine if I like or dislike it. I was not excited about hearing of Beast Wars. I planned to buy 1 figure and be done with it. (Polar Claw, since he came in a box and would have a "catalog" of the toyline) However I bought a couple more and appreciated their poseability. Whatever they transformed into these were some awesome figures! I hadn't appreciated the poseability first introduced in G2 because the o-ring construction didn't work well in Laser Rod Jolt and Cyberjet Skyjack's back didn't lock into place.

 

Throughout BW I wished, dreamed of super-poseable jets, especially a super poseable Superion. Still this didn't detract from my enjoyment of super-poseable and often innovative designs that happened to have animal alt forms. The first Transmetals really took it another step forward, not only giving them a vehicular "transport" mode, but making the "animal figure" as poseable, interesting, and fun as the "humanoid figure".

 

What I like about Transformer toys the most is transforming and the poseability, does not matter what it transforms into. I consider good poseability to be: turning head and balljoint or balljoint-equivalent jointing of the shoulders, elbows, hips, and knees. A waist pivot is a wonderful addition to that and wrist/ankle/finger articulation for larger figures appropriately.

 

BW was fairly good in meeting those standards of poseability closely, usually only failing on the occasional gimmick figure(i.e. Retrax). But for how much improved Energon was over Armada, and how praised many of Cybertron's designs are... it feels like the designers no longer care about meeting those standards. Many figures still have great poseability mind you, but there seem to be too many unnecessary oversights. Why are Armorhide's shoulders restricted from lifting the arm straight out to the side? Why does he not have a waist pivot Why are Wreckloose's hips restricted so much when they could move so much better by cutting a notch out at the top Why do Vector Prime's arms have a rotation joint BELOW the elbow instead of above to be balljoint-equivalent? In many ways the AEC era, (including the C!), is a step backwards in Transformer design to me. Not because there are few beasts and not because it's a lot of vehicles.

 

That Beast/Vehicle dichotomy matters little to me... I consider RID to be part of the "Beast Era", not because they use a few beast molds, but because the design/engineering philosophy and construction of the figures is the same. Are not Speedbreaker and Machkick virtually the same except one has car parts stuck on his body and one has horse parts? Is that a worthwhile reason to not like one or the other? To me, no.

 

Here are some words of William Blake:

The ancient tradition that the world will be consumed in fire at the end of 6000 years is true as I have

heard from hell

 

The whole creation will be consumed and appear infinite and holy whereas it now appears finite and corrupt

 

This will come to pass by an improvement of sensual enjoyment

 

But the first notion that man has a body distinct from his soul shall be expunged

 

This I shall do by printing in the infernal method, by corrosives which in hell are salutory and medicinal

 

Melting apparent surfaces away and displaying the infinite which is hid

 

If the doors of perception would cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite

 

For man has closed himself off until he sees all things through narrow chinks of his cavern

 

I ask(rhetorically) you to ask yourself, how narrow are your chinks? Can you see the infinite and holy or just the finite and corrupt?

 

Keeping an open mind is a wonderful thing. I had sushi once, didn't like it. I went to an Asian buffet with friends they had me try more sushi, still didn't like it. Went to a different place, tried different sushi, still didn't like it. My friends have talked about going to a real sushi restaurant, not just a whatever Asian buffet... I wouldn't suggest going, but I'd go and try it still.

 

My sister didn't want to try eating at a Panera restaurant, she was "dragged" there by others. She had a ham and cheese sandwich and now LOVES Panera. Actually she loves Panera's ham and cheese sandwich, she won't  try anything else on the menu. My mind boggles...

 

Injector looks horrible. He's ugly. He's simplistic. He looks like he was designed on "Bring your kids to work day". This are all things I thought and still think. Yet I love Injector. I didn't at first, but I had an open mind grew to appreciate his ugly but Monstrous and disjoint but appropriately freakish aesthetic. He's got a wonderful gun emplacement mode and all the poseability I crave. What's not to love?

 

 

 

More things I would say but THAT was too much time...

Wow, William Blake.... :tflaugh

 

I think it depends... TM Rattrap had like zero articulation in beast mode (unless you count his tail, I guess), but he's still a great figure because of the third mode and the general coolness of the figure IMO.

 

My favorite beastformer is Beast Machines Cheetor though because the design is so cool-looking to me... plus he actually looks like a cheetah for once

Well, this is a cool topic.

 

I love vehicle alt modes more than animals alt modes...

 

But animal alt modes are an important feature (and really cool) for The Transformers... I dont think it would be as great as it is without a good mixture of both!

 

And I also agree that the beast modes with totally organic molds were the WORST!

 

Once the Transmetals came, it went right back to the Dinobots and Insecticons of G1. And I like to see all the little mechanics and wires in the sculpts... Keep the fur, it's a robot!

 

So, can't we all just get along? Ha!

Hey everyone. Long time lurker, first time poster. This topic brought me out of the woodwork.

 

I am not anti-beast, but I certainly prefer vehicles. I grew up on G1, so it just seems wrong to me that an organic beast would unfold into a robot. The organic BW toys never truly looked "right" to me (although I do own a few). A robot is a machine, and should look as such. I dislike robots that look like mannequins covered with random animal parts. 

 

Accessories are another issue for me. With beasts you will always get the same weapon. Tail = whip, head with scary jaws = hand, etc. Some dont even make sense. Take Silverbolt for instance. No handheld weapon, but he can sure shoot down his own wingmen in beast mode.

 

The Transmetals pulled me back into TFs after a 12 year absense. Like another poster said, they reminded me very much of the G1 Dinobots and Insecticons, and like many of you I'm sure, I yelled out "RAVAGE!" when I first saw TM Cheetor. On top of that, I also longed for traditional TFs with this much articulation, something they've only recently achieved in E-Starscream, C-Crosswise, & C-Downshift.

 

I dont mind a few technobeasts sprinkled into the main line, but I dont want to see another all-beast line again.

Most collection pictures I see have most/all TFs in bot mode. Certainly there's a space issue, but I've seen it stated more than once that many collectors like purely the bot mode and/or rarely use the alt mode. Now if this is true, then do not animal transformers with beast forms offer 2 bot modes? (This is the idea, if I understand Shajaki correctly.)

If you're someone who likes the bot modes, what mode do like G1 Ravage in?Tape or Animal? If his animal form is appealing as a "bot" form, then at least the TM1 animal forms should hold that appeal as well.

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that pretty much was my point. if your favorite mode was the bot mode with all its posability and such, why wouldnt you want the alt mode to be something just a fun? i understand people like the robotic beasts better than the realistic furry ones, but understand one thing first: these (amazingly good toys for their day) came out after the demise of g2, and as we all recall g1 and g2 was not known for its articulation. so then they release a line of tfs that not only is articulated, but theyre organic beasts, something never done before even by them. the fact that they ended up making anything even remotly good is astounding.

 

and ace really has been a step back as far as ingenuity goes. armada as a whole was simply horrid. energon was the learing as we go version of armada. and cybertron as good as it is could be better and has many figures with little annoyances that really should be there. especially seeing as how ace came after rid, youd think theyd be as good and or better.

 

Accessories are another issue for me. With beasts you will always get the same weapon. Tail = whip, head with scary jaws = hand, etc. Some dont even make sense. Take Silverbolt for instance. No handheld weapon, but he can sure shoot down his own wingmen in beast mode.

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i have to disagree with that. there were alot of figures from bw that actually had guns rather than an odd appendage. alot of those odd transformations and even odder appendages came from the fuzors. and silverbolt could hold his missles in his hands as sort of swords. we was one of my favorites from everything in bw. and sure his animal limbs= bot limbs, but it was pretty unique and kickass how he tf'd and looked in bot mode. quickstrike was another good one.

 

the transmetals were the highpoint of the line, and ill say again that rampage was the best one. articulated in bot and crab mode. rubber treads and the whole nine. i guess i just go for the whole uniqueness rather than the same old that theyve been doing. look at the car brothers of rid. they were awsome and even though they were vehicles i would not compare them to even the best of ace car bots.

 

lastly, bm pwns joo.

I like a mixture of both types in a series!!

 

I think Galaxey Force got the mixture just right.

 

But one my faverote Transformer is Liger Jack!!

 

I love his beast mode!!

cybertron has it right. i like the primal bare fist fighting idea f the beastformers but equally love the raw power of the vehicle with shed loads of weapons

I like a mixture of both types in a series!!

 

I think Galaxey Force got the mixture just right.

 

But one my faverote Transformer is Liger Jack!!

 

I love his beast mode!!

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ligerjack?

 

*shudder*

 

he was one of the figures i was talking about with ace being a step back from bw-rid. his bot mode suffers from many things that shouldnt have been repeated from armada. ligerjack could easily fit amongst the armada rejects.

 

not that i dont own him (and buying dark ligerjack)and like him in my own ways. but he is pretty horrid.