Nor are they allied with Unicron. Megatron callling Tarantulas "Unicron's Spawn" is just an insult, not a discription of the Spider's heritage.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Some people say "it's just an insult", but there's no confirmation to that. And if you watch the episode, listen to the lines, it is not at all delivered like an insult. It is NOT an insult.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know the lines, and, yes, it's open to interpretation. But this is a classical example of anti-plotholing. It occurs in all fandoms. It's like with Star Wars: Fans assume that all that's been said and shown actually have meaning, and that ther are no plotholes. The same thing occurs with this: People assume that Megatron literally meant that Tarantulas was Unicron's Spawn. Then I pose this in return: How would Megatron know that Tarantulas was Unicron's offspring? I'll grant you that Megatron was smart, and knew quite a lot, but saying that Megatron knew that, perhaps the greatest secret of the Tripredacus-council and Tarantulas, something they would most unlikely (read: not) share with anyone, is pushing the envelope.

 And I do think it was delivered like an insult

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

When's the last time you watched the episode? I watched it with this in mind and Megatron(Kaye) delivers the line very "matter of factly" not with any spite or venom. Listening to it, it just does not at all sound like Megs is insulting Tarantulas.

No, Forward (Or DiTillio, not quite sure here) said it himself in an interview.

 

And what makes you say that Universe is canon? You have absolutely no grounds for that, besides that you simply WANT it to be. You insist it is canon, but it's as canon as any Anthology-story, perhaps even less, since Universe has dead TFs crawling out of every corner, it's gettin' so even being dead is just a slight inconvinience.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, Universe IS canon.

 

It was officially endorsed by Hasbro, it has it's own toy-line (which alone is enough to effectively kill your ridiculous argument), and it's story and events were acknowledged by the new Fan Club comic (Sentinal Maximus). Whether or not they're apart of the actual BW TV show universe or an alternate BW universe is debatable, but they're still canon.

 

Seriously, I just love the fandom's favorite tactic of ignoring and dismissing several pieces of actual canon just so that they can continue on arguing their disproven ideas.

 

And for the record, yes, Tarantulas, the Tripredacus Council, and the Blendtrons are all Unicron's spawn. Get over it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

SO, according to you, Beast Wars happened in the past of Armada. Because Transformers: Legends IS licensed by Hasbro. And Generation 2 and Machine Wars are also canon then.

Perhaps in one Armada universe, a BW-like event occured.  And of course, Generation 2 and Machine Wars are also canon. Hello, multiple universes.

 

Blendtrons are Japanese continuity, and have nothing to do with Amarican storyline.

So are

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Lioconvoy, Big Convoy, Killerpunch, Deadend, and Magmatron,

but they all appeared in IDW's Beast Wars comic, but I suppose you don't consider them to be canon, either, right?  :roll 

 

Tarantulas and the Tripredacus council: No. It's like ES said: Tarantulas just said that the council and himself weren't decended from autobots or decepticons, and Megatron called him "unicron's spawn."  that's it.

Alright then, can you please provide evidence from the show itself that has Tarantulas and/or the Council specifically stating that they did not originate from Unicron? Preferrably a video file or MP3 of him/them saying this?

 

Oh, wait, I'm sorry, you can't! Why? Because there isn't any evidence from the show to validate that they're aren't Unicron's spawn.

 

Seriously, most people when watching "Other victories" and noting that Tarantulas stated that he and the Tripredacus Council didn't originate from either Autobots or Decepticons, and then the following episode has a guy who's notorious for knowing everyone inside and out calling him "Unicron's spawn" in a non-insulting, but in a matter of factly manner would've made the logical deduction that Tarantulas and his buddies are in fact Unicron's henchmen, and not, say, evil robots created by the evil French government to descretely remove Iraq's WMDs to make Bush look bad.

 

As for your questions, X-bob: Fanwank. THat's it. Put as many different Transformers into one issue, just too please the fans.

 

So, they have toys. Big deal. Alternator-toys are the best TF-toys we;ve seen in a long time. Doesn't mean they are part of continuity. You can MAKE them part of continuity, but it's still not canon. THat's your own story, not official. Machine Wars, same thing. No backstory, but toys enough. Where does it fit in with continuity? It doesn't.

Alternators and Machine Wars are of their own universes.

 

As for Carnage in C-minor: No. Never liked to cartoons. It has 3 different origins for the Constructicons, for God's sake! They were made on Earth, best friends of Omega Supreme on Cybertron until they were brainwashed by Megatron, and at the same time they build Megatron themselves! How can you make sense out of that? You can't. Unless you create your own fan-explanation, but then it's still not canon.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hate, loathe, detest, and furthermore just don't care for the G1 cartoon either, but it's still canon.

 

Just like the Marvel comics, DW comics, IDW comics, The Ultimate Guide, and 3H and MC's Fan Club comics. All of it is canon. Period. No matter how much you may dislike them, they're still canon, they still happen. And dismissing any of them to continue arguing old, obsolete, disproven ideas reflects poorly of you.

I pose this in return: How would Megatron know that Tarantulas was Unicron's offspring? I'll grant you that Megatron was smart, and knew quite a lot, but saying that Megatron knew that, perhaps the greatest secret of the Tripredacus-council and Tarantulas, something they would most unlikely (read: not) share with anyone, is pushing the envelope.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This is speculation, but I'm sure that Megatron probably started digging into whatever personnel files he had on Tarrantulus right after the events in Agenda (when he found out Tarantulus was an undercover Predacon operative).  Then, after the events in Master Blaster, I'm sure got to wondering what Tarantulus was doing trying to not only blow up the Ark with the most prominent of Bots and Cons on it, but dumping BW Megs in lava knowing full well his frame contained G1 Megs' spark.

 

This confirms nothing, but it does push the idea of Megatron knowing something about Tarantulus (he didn't need to suspect anything about the TriPred council - his comment was solely about Tarantulus) into the realm of plausibility.  And I find the revelation regarding Tarantulus' alternate lineage in one episode, and Megatron's 'insult' in the next to be a little too coincidental to be coincidence.

 

But ultimately, only Furman, Forward, DiTillio and any other writers involved can say for sure what their intentions were.

-No, Forward (Or DiTillio, not quite sure here) said it himself in an interview.

 

-And what makes you say that Universe is canon? You have absolutely no grounds for that, besides that you simply WANT it to be. You insist it is canon, but it's as canon as any Anthology-story, perhaps even less, since Universe has dead TFs crawling out of every corner, it's gettin' so even being dead is just a slight inconvinience.

 

No, Universe IS canon.

 

It was officially endorsed by Hasbro, it has it's own toy-line (which alone is enough to effectively kill your ridiculous argument), and it's story and events were acknowledged by the new Fan Club comic (Sentinal Maximus). Whether or not they're apart of the actual BW TV show universe or an alternate BW universe is debatable, but they're still canon.

 

Seriously, I just love the fandom's favorite tactic of ignoring and dismissing several pieces of actual canon just so that they can continue on arguing their disproven ideas.

 

And for the record, yes, Tarantulas, the Tripredacus Council, and the Blendtrons are all Unicron's spawn. Get over it.

 

 

-SO, according to you, Beast Wars happened in the past of Armada. Because Transformers: Legends IS licensed by Hasbro. And Generation 2 and Machine Wars are also canon then.

 

Perhaps in one Armada universe, a BW-like event occured.  And of course, Generation 2 and Machine Wars are also canon. Hello, multiple universes.

 

-Hello, fan-speculation.

 

Blendtrons are Japanese continuity, and have nothing to do with Amarican storyline.

So are

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Lioconvoy, Big Convoy, Killerpunch, Deadend, and Magmatron,

but they all appeared in IDW's Beast Wars comic, but I suppose you don't consider them to be canon, either, right?  :roll 

 

-Blendtrons as a faction is Japanese Continuity. Fuzors is American Continuity.

 

Tarantulas and the Tripredacus council: No. It's like ES said: Tarantulas just said that the council and himself weren't decended from autobots or decepticons, and Megatron called him "unicron's spawn."  that's it.

Alright then, can you please provide evidence from the show itself that has Tarantulas and/or the Council specifically stating that they did not originate from Unicron? Preferrably a video file or MP3 of him/them saying this?

 

Oh, wait, I'm sorry, you can't! Why? Because there isn't any evidence from the show to validate that they're aren't Unicron's spawn.

 

-So are Optimus Prime, megatron, and for all that matters all Maximals, Predacons even the entire Transformers race. Besides theis one VERY ambiguious statement by Megatron, you have no basis to say Tarantulas is offspring of Unicron.

 

-As for proof that they are not Unicron's Spawn: Like I said: In an interview of DiTillio, the writer stated himself that they were Generation2 Transformers, not decendant of Autobots or Decepticons, but, like Lord Straxus and Jhiaxus, G2 Decepticons.

 

When asked this, Larry DiTillio had the following answer (keep in mind that this is Larry DiTillio's response, and not Bob Forward's):

 

 

What does Tarantulas mean that he and the Tripredacus Council are not descended from Autobot or Decepticons? The Tripredacus Council said in "Agenda" that they were related to the Decepticons.

 

"This was never firmly settled, but it is quite possible that the Tripredacus Council and Tarantulas are descendents of the Generation 2 Cybertronians shown in the Transformers: Generation 2 comic book. This race of Cybertronians had seperated themselves from the Autobots and Decepticons, but still bore many Decepticon traits. Since the Generation 2 comic book is indeed part of the history of Beast Wars, this possibility is open."

 

What was the Earth experiment by the Vok anyway?

 

"This is a tough question to answer because in truth Bob and I never completely agreed on certain aspects of the backstory concerning both the Vok and the fate of Earth. So I might say one thing, he might say another. But I will give you MY take since at this point in time, it's all just speculation anyway.

 

Now, for my take, you have to hearken back to the work of Simon Furman in the TF comicbook... specifically the 12 issue run which featured "The Swarm". This was my theory - AFTER the Swarm destroyed most of Gen 2 and was then "redeemed" by Optimus Prime (in issue 12), the Swarm became a new entity. It consisted of parts of three different races/species etc. One was Gen 2 itself, a machine race, the 2nd was an unknown race of humanoid lizards (and they are the sibilant voice you hear in Other Visits), the third was well US. IN short I concluded that before the Swarm decimated G2, they swept over Earth and completely and utterly wiped out all human life there. (This by the way was one of the major points of contention between Bob and I, Bob did not like the idea of humanity being wiped out by the Swarm).

 

Once Optimus's intervention changed the Swarm it developed what you might call an "extreme conscience". For the first time, it percieved it had done '"wrong" and fueled by the sentience of the three consumed races it set about CORRECTING it's mistakes. To this end, it vowed to restore the human race on the Planet Earth, but doing it in such a way that would create a "perfect humanity". Of course this was not an experiment to be concluded in a day or a week or even a century. It was a matter of eons. And it meant playing with space and time and scrapping the experiment if and when it went awry through the interference of some other space faring race, PARTICULARLY, MACHINE Races... And in fact this happened, more than once.

 

Which brings us to Beast Wars and yet another attempt at creating a pefect humanity, one which by the way, would eventually interact with the long-lived Transformers in peace."

 

As for your questions, X-bob: Fanwank. THat's it. Put as many different Transformers into one issue, just too please the fans.

 

So, they have toys. Big deal. Alternator-toys are the best TF-toys we;ve seen in a long time. Doesn't mean they are part of continuity. You can MAKE them part of continuity, but it's still not canon. THat's your own story, not official. Machine Wars, same thing. No backstory, but toys enough. Where does it fit in with continuity? It doesn't.

 

Alternators and Machine Wars are of their own universes.

 

-So is Universe. Fanfic alternate Universe of its own..

 

As for Carnage in C-minor: No. Never liked to cartoons. It has 3 different origins for the Constructicons, for God's sake! They were made on Earth, best friends of Omega Supreme on Cybertron until they were brainwashed by Megatron, and at the same time they build Megatron themselves! How can you make sense out of that? You can't. Unless you create your own fan-explanation, but then it's still not canon.

 

I hate, loathe, detest, and furthermore just don't care for the G1 cartoon either, but it's still canon.

 

Just like the Marvel comics, DW comics, IDW comics, The Ultimate Guide, and 3H and MC's Fan Club comics. All of it is canon. Period. No matter how much you may dislike them, they're still canon, they still happen. And dismissing any of them to continue arguing old, obsolete, disproven ideas reflects poorly of you.

 

 

-Well, first, Furman himself dismisses various things of the cartoon as being 'non-canonical", like, for example, the creation of the Dinobots on Earth, in Ultimate Guide. So, apparently, one of these experts you so love himself believes some things are jsut plain not part of canon, even if it was part of the cartoon.

 

-Second: apparently, these are NOT "old, obsolete, disproven ideas", since interpretation is still up for debate.  the fact that you seem so sure, yet bring so little argument in this debate, instead opting to dismiss other people's opinion by such high bravado, only reflects poorly on you.

 

-Well, I can't seem to work out this quote-thing, somehow I guess I reached it's limits. Have fun figuring it all out, though. :P

So, they have toys. Big deal. Alternator-toys are the best TF-toys we;ve seen in a long time. Doesn't mean they are part of continuity. You can MAKE them part of continuity, but it's still not canon. THat's your own story, not official. Machine Wars, same thing. No backstory, but toys enough. Where does it fit in with continuity? It doesn't.

 

Alternators and Machine Wars are of their own universes.

 

-So is Universe. Fanfic alternate Universe of its own..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bineltech is canon, as in Machine Wars. Black Starscream's techspecs mention his Machine Wars body. There is a lot of time between G1 and BW for stuff to happen

BTW American Contuity(minus Rebirth) is part of the Japenes Contuity

 

Starscream--Black Version

Function: Pursuit/Capture

Motto: "Conquest is made from the ashes of one's enemies."

Following the conflicts of the Machine Wars, Starscream further changed

his form.  His original disposition, that of glory-hunger personified,

can be seen in his handsome exostructure.  Starscream is more pleased

than he could have imagined with his new black-and-gold color scheme,

and yet feels not the slightest unease at it being damaged in combat.

If anything, distinguishing himself on the battlefield in his current

form would confirm his charisma could appeal to those around him.  He

has no doubt this will serve him greatly when he gains control over the

[Decepticon] forces.  He has begun honing his cunning even more.

P.S. Lord Straxus was a G1 Decepticon :P

-No, Forward (Or DiTillio, not quite sure here) said it himself in an interview.

 

-And what makes you say that Universe is canon? You have absolutely no grounds for that, besides that you simply WANT it to be. You insist it is canon, but it's as canon as any Anthology-story, perhaps even less, since Universe has dead TFs crawling out of every corner, it's gettin' so even being dead is just a slight inconvinience.

 

No, Universe IS canon.

 

It was officially endorsed by Hasbro, it has it's own toy-line (which alone is enough to effectively kill your ridiculous argument), and it's story and events were acknowledged by the new Fan Club comic (Sentinal Maximus). Whether or not they're apart of the actual BW TV show universe or an alternate BW universe is debatable, but they're still canon.

 

Seriously, I just love the fandom's favorite tactic of ignoring and dismissing several pieces of actual canon just so that they can continue on arguing their disproven ideas.

 

And for the record, yes, Tarantulas, the Tripredacus Council, and the Blendtrons are all Unicron's spawn. Get over it.

 

 

-SO, according to you, Beast Wars happened in the past of Armada. Because Transformers: Legends IS licensed by Hasbro. And Generation 2 and Machine Wars are also canon then.

 

Perhaps in one Armada universe, a BW-like event occured.  And of course, Generation 2 and Machine Wars are also canon. Hello, multiple universes.

 

-Hello, fan-speculation.

 

Blendtrons are Japanese continuity, and have nothing to do with Amarican storyline.

So are

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Lioconvoy, Big Convoy, Killerpunch, Deadend, and Magmatron,

but they all appeared in IDW's Beast Wars comic, but I suppose you don't consider them to be canon, either, right?  :roll 

 

-Blendtrons as a faction is Japanese Continuity. Fuzors is American Continuity.

 

Tarantulas and the Tripredacus council: No. It's like ES said: Tarantulas just said that the council and himself weren't decended from autobots or decepticons, and Megatron called him "unicron's spawn."  that's it.

Alright then, can you please provide evidence from the show itself that has Tarantulas and/or the Council specifically stating that they did not originate from Unicron? Preferrably a video file or MP3 of him/them saying this?

 

Oh, wait, I'm sorry, you can't! Why? Because there isn't any evidence from the show to validate that they're aren't Unicron's spawn.

 

-So are Optimus Prime, megatron, and for all that matters all Maximals, Predacons even the entire Transformers race. Besides theis one VERY ambiguious statement by Megatron, you have no basis to say Tarantulas is offspring of Unicron.

 

-As for proof that they are not Unicron's Spawn: Like I said: In an interview of DiTillio, the writer stated himself that they were Generation2 Transformers, not decendant of Autobots or Decepticons, but, like Lord Straxus and Jhiaxus, G2 Decepticons.

 

When asked this, Larry DiTillio had the following answer (keep in mind that this is Larry DiTillio's response, and not Bob Forward's):

 

 

What does Tarantulas mean that he and the Tripredacus Council are not descended from Autobot or Decepticons? The Tripredacus Council said in "Agenda" that they were related to the Decepticons.

 

"This was never firmly settled, but it is quite possible that the Tripredacus Council and Tarantulas are descendents of the Generation 2 Cybertronians shown in the Transformers: Generation 2 comic book. This race of Cybertronians had seperated themselves from the Autobots and Decepticons, but still bore many Decepticon traits. Since the Generation 2 comic book is indeed part of the history of Beast Wars, this possibility is open."

 

What was the Earth experiment by the Vok anyway?

 

"This is a tough question to answer because in truth Bob and I never completely agreed on certain aspects of the backstory concerning both the Vok and the fate of Earth. So I might say one thing, he might say another. But I will give you MY take since at this point in time, it's all just speculation anyway.

 

Now, for my take, you have to hearken back to the work of Simon Furman in the TF comicbook... specifically the 12 issue run which featured "The Swarm". This was my theory - AFTER the Swarm destroyed most of Gen 2 and was then "redeemed" by Optimus Prime (in issue 12), the Swarm became a new entity. It consisted of parts of three different races/species etc. One was Gen 2 itself, a machine race, the 2nd was an unknown race of humanoid lizards (and they are the sibilant voice you hear in Other Visits), the third was well US. IN short I concluded that before the Swarm decimated G2, they swept over Earth and completely and utterly wiped out all human life there. (This by the way was one of the major points of contention between Bob and I, Bob did not like the idea of humanity being wiped out by the Swarm).

 

Once Optimus's intervention changed the Swarm it developed what you might call an "extreme conscience". For the first time, it percieved it had done '"wrong" and fueled by the sentience of the three consumed races it set about CORRECTING it's mistakes. To this end, it vowed to restore the human race on the Planet Earth, but doing it in such a way that would create a "perfect humanity". Of course this was not an experiment to be concluded in a day or a week or even a century. It was a matter of eons. And it meant playing with space and time and scrapping the experiment if and when it went awry through the interference of some other space faring race, PARTICULARLY, MACHINE Races... And in fact this happened, more than once.

 

Which brings us to Beast Wars and yet another attempt at creating a pefect humanity, one which by the way, would eventually interact with the long-lived Transformers in peace."

 

As for your questions, X-bob: Fanwank. THat's it. Put as many different Transformers into one issue, just too please the fans.

 

So, they have toys. Big deal. Alternator-toys are the best TF-toys we;ve seen in a long time. Doesn't mean they are part of continuity. You can MAKE them part of continuity, but it's still not canon. THat's your own story, not official. Machine Wars, same thing. No backstory, but toys enough. Where does it fit in with continuity? It doesn't.

 

Alternators and Machine Wars are of their own universes.

 

-So is Universe. Fanfic alternate Universe of its own..

 

As for Carnage in C-minor: No. Never liked to cartoons. It has 3 different origins for the Constructicons, for God's sake! They were made on Earth, best friends of Omega Supreme on Cybertron until they were brainwashed by Megatron, and at the same time they build Megatron themselves! How can you make sense out of that? You can't. Unless you create your own fan-explanation, but then it's still not canon.

 

I hate, loathe, detest, and furthermore just don't care for the G1 cartoon either, but it's still canon.

 

Just like the Marvel comics, DW comics, IDW comics, The Ultimate Guide, and 3H and MC's Fan Club comics. All of it is canon. Period. No matter how much you may dislike them, they're still canon, they still happen. And dismissing any of them to continue arguing old, obsolete, disproven ideas reflects poorly of you.

 

 

-Well, first, Furman himself dismisses various things of the cartoon as being 'non-canonical", like, for example, the creation of the Dinobots on Earth, in Ultimate Guide. So, apparently, one of these experts you so love himself believes some things are jsut plain not part of canon, even if it was part of the cartoon.

 

-Second: apparently, these are NOT "old, obsolete, disproven ideas", since interpretation is still up for debate.  the fact that you seem so sure, yet bring so little argument in this debate, instead opting to dismiss other people's opinion by such high bravado, only reflects poorly on you.

 

-Well, I can't seem to work out this quote-thing, somehow I guess I reached it's limits. Have fun figuring it all out, though. :P

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It doesn't matter if Bob and Larry said they had different ideas in an interview, the fact is none of it actually made it into the actual show, thus it is NOT canon. Larry Ditillio said that in effect pertaining to a previous idea (concerning every character being able to have a second robot and beast mode, IIRC) that since he couldn't get it into the show, he couldn't maintain it's canonicity. Same thing here. Tarantulas and his friends as the descendants of Liege Maximo didn't make it into the show, therefore it isn't canon.

 

What is canon however, is them originating from Unicron, and that's because two official works of canon, Primeval Dawn and Universe, HAS established them as Unicron's spawn.

 

You're mistaken again, the Fuzors and Blendtrons are NOT the same. They're two distinct factions or groups.

 

And yes, these ARE old, obsolete disproven ideas, but so is intelligent design, and idiots still continue to argue it to this very day, and that's been disproven for god knows how many decades, so while I may be annoyed by this, I'm not the least bit surprised at the fandom's blatant refusal to accept new ideas or series.

:tfhuh

 

Wait...are you seriously trying to proof to me that Tarantulas is Unicron's Spawn, by referring to 2 sources I, and with me many others, dismissed, for being non-canonical?

 

And, do read what I said. I said that Blendtrons are a faction in Japanese continuity, and Fuzors are American. I never said they were the same. Different continuities. As you so delicately put: "Hello, mulpiple Universes."

 

Last, you can't compare this to ID. First, this discussion is nothing like the discussion on ID. Second, ID has not yet been proven wrong, which is impossible, since it's unproven premisses are inherent in it's nature, so you cannot say it's disproven. Last, by comparing me, and in effect those who also belief that 3H Botcon Wreckers-stories are fanfiction, with believers in ID, you are basically insulting us, trying to paint us as idiots. Again, instead of bringing arguments to your case, you attack me verbally. Just because I happen to disagree with you, doesn't mean I'm stupid. I have shown you the dignity of not attacking you personally. I have never said you were stupid. I never said you are an idiot. All I did was disagreeing with you. I have shown you nothing but dignity, I expect to be given the same in return.

Let me clear this up. They work for me. Now stop bickering or else I'll send a covert agent after you.

Ooh, my own agent Ravage! Can I pet him? I'd love to get a little Beastbox on my hands. :nuts