Dude. I don't believe in ID, but I'm well aware of it's negative connotations. Again, I say you shouldn't bring that into this conversation. First, it has nothing to do with this topic. Second, it's a wrong analogy. And third, you're being insultive by comparing me with that.

 

And last, because I have to say it: ID, stupid as it is, hasn't been disproven. How can you proof there is or isn't a God? You can't, so it's still open for debate. You don't have to convince me that ID is a non-sensical belief, but don't claim something that is just plain untrue. OK, done with this, let's move on to the ACTUAL discussion.

 

And really, just repeating "it's true, it's true" doesn't make your case any stronger. I agree that it has Hasbro's license. I'll give you that. As does Armada, Machine Wars, ActionMasters, Wheelie, and all those other lines. Doesn't make it canon.

 

Let's take the analogy of Star Wars. As you may know, there are the main movies, episode 1 through 6, and the Expanded Universe, EU. Those 2 contradict eachother almost completely. Star Wars fans have made a scale of canonicity, with L, standing for Lucas, as undisputable canon, and EU as secundary.

 

The same goes for Universe and Wreckers. Nice story, but at the most secundary canon. So, NOT absolutely canon. They are nice stories, but that's it. It's canonicity is highly debatable. I think it's not, you do. Fine. But, please, don't act like an ass, will ya?

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Wait, are you trying to tell me that canon only applies to series or things that YOU like? Cause everything you listed, Armada, Machine Wars, Action Masters, and Wheelie are ALL canon.

 

Really, are you going to tell me with a straight face that Armada, a series that has a toy-line, tv show, comic, and video game, is somehow noncanonical?

 

If so, you've just killed your entire argument. (Especially since Armada, Energon, and Cybertron are unquestionably the three absolute best TF series ever.)

 

And Transformers isn't quite like Star Wars. But even so, it's stuff like Legends, the coloring books, and the like that would be the secondary canon as Legends flat-out says that it isn't meant to be taken as canon, whereas the 3H and MC comic don't.

No, I meant that Mr. Kaye should be asked the question regarding Tarantulas' origin... I am open to either answer for the debate but I'd prefer an official or semi-official answer.

 

lol someone should ask vector prime..lol

Read what I said.

 

And really, just repeating "it's true, it's true" doesn't make your case any stronger. I agree that it has Hasbro's license. I'll give you that. As does Armada, Machine Wars, ActionMasters, Wheelie, and all those other lines. Doesn't make it canon.

 

It consequentially refers to Universe. What I said was, that Universe has Hasbro's License. Just as Armada, Machine Wars, and all those other TF-related things have. End of sentence. New sentence. That it has a license doesn't make it canonical. It referring again to "Universe".

 

Yes, Armada is canon. Different Universe, has nothing to do with G1/BW/BM. It has something to do with Universe, but, whether that is canon or not is exactly what we are debating.

 

Oh, and please, do refrain from making such absolute statements like A/E/C being "unquestionably the best TF-series ever". It's questionable. The fact that in your opinion it's the best, I can accept. But making it a general objective truth, that is taking it a few steps too far.

Really, are you going to tell me with a straight face that Armada, a series that has a toy-line, tv show, comic, and video game, is somehow noncanonical?

 

If so, you've just killed your entire argument. (Especially since Armada, Energon, and Cybertron are unquestionably the three absolute best TF series ever.)

 

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I completely agree with your assertion that to say Armada isn't cannon is absurd.  It's outside of the original TF universe, but it's been the mainline cannon for the past 4 years or so. 

 

But given the countless, and I do mean countless, numbers of heated threads between those that like the show and those that don't, can you really use the term 'unquestionably'?  I won't say that they are or aren't the three best TF series but I'd bet body parts that if you were to take a poll of TF fans, the results would vary from your assumption.  Not to say that the majority is always right, but at the very least, it certainly does raise a 'question'. 

Read what I said.

 

And really, just repeating "it's true, it's true" doesn't make your case any stronger. I agree that it has Hasbro's license. I'll give you that. As does Armada, Machine Wars, ActionMasters, Wheelie, and all those other lines. Doesn't make it canon.

 

It consequentially refers to Universe. What I said was, that Universe has Hasbro's License. Just as Armada, Machine Wars, and all those other TF-related things have. End of sentence. New sentence. That it has a license doesn't make it canonical. It referring again to "Universe".

 

Yes, Armada is canon. Different Universe, has nothing to do with G1/BW/BM. It has something to do with Universe, but, whether that is canon or not is exactly what we are debating.

Ok, gotcha. But the way you structured your sentence made it sound kinda like "just like all those other series, it isn't canon."

 

Or maybe that's just how I've misinterpreted it, if so, I apologize, but that's how I saw it.

 

Oh, and please, do refrain from making such absolute statements like A/E/C being "unquestionably the best TF-series ever". It's questionable. The fact that in your opinion it's the best, I can accept. But making it a general objective truth, that is taking it a few steps too far.

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But it is true, the Unicron Trilogy truly is the best TF story ever. :thumb

<<

 

Unicron Trilogy sucks.  GALAXY FORCE FOREVAAAHHHH!!!!

If you can say the Unicron Trilogy is the best TF story ever, I can say Universe is non-canon. :P

But it is true, the Unicron Trilogy truly is the best TF story ever. :thumb

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Yeah, it's obvious. 

 

Its ratings beat out all competing shows easily...no, wait, that was G1.  Well, it's the only TF show to win an Emmy...no, wait, that's Beast Wars.  Well, it's the most highly regarded TF show by the majority of not only the fandom, but by all of the comic book companies to hold the TF license...no, wait, that's Beast Wars as well. 

 

Uhm, well, at least it was good enough to stay on the pre-determined three-series storyline set by HasTak back when this universe was first conceived...wait, no, Takara got off the can and started fresh with GF.  Well, uh, aahhh, uhm, at least it held or improved its original timeslot...no, that was any of the TF series of the 20th century. 

 

What other criteria could there be?  Characterization...no, Beast Wars.  Pacing..., any TF series trounces Armada.  Action sequences...stock footage, frozen frames with flashing lights, hand holding - no can't give this one to the Armadaverse either.  Dialogue...Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha...ohh, that hurt, and besides, Beast Wars wins that one pretty darn easily.  Animation...Armada is out, Energon was pretty but the CGI movement was stilted at best, but Cybertron is pretty good, but damn if there isn't a lot of stock footage, no, I have to give this one to Beast Machines, with Beast Wars following pretty close behind.  Overall storyline...no, other than Sideways, the only good parts were taken from G1, and depending on the series, half was alway bad, even from most fan's perspectives (1st half of Armada, 2nd half of Energon - votes still out on Cybertron)...besides, BW had the best overall story.

 

OK, I guess it's not so obvious.  What manner of criteria could qualify the Armadaverse as the best 3 TF series?

If you can say the Unicron Trilogy is the best TF story ever, I can say Universe is non-canon. :P

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No, because what I say actually holds merit. :D

 

:P

But it is true, the Unicron Trilogy truly is the best TF story ever. :thumb

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Yeah, it's obvious. 

 

Its ratings beat out all competing shows easily...no, wait, that was G1.  Well, it's the only TF show to win an Emmy...no, wait, that's Beast Wars.  Well, it's the most highly regarded TF show by the majority of not only the fandom, but by all of the comic book companies to hold the TF license...no, wait, that's Beast Wars as well. 

 

Uhm, well, at least it was good enough to stay on the pre-determined three-series storyline set by HasTak back when this universe was first conceived...wait, no, Takara got off the can and started fresh with GF.  Well, uh, aahhh, uhm, at least it held or improved its original timeslot...no, that was any of the TF series of the 20th century. 

 

What other criteria could there be?  Characterization...no, Beast Wars.  Pacing..., any TF series trounces Armada.  Action sequences...stock footage, frozen frames with flashing lights, hand holding - no can't give this one to the Armadaverse either.  Dialogue...Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha...ohh, that hurt, and besides, Beast Wars wins that one pretty darn easily.  Animation...Armada is out, Energon was pretty but the CGI movement was stilted at best, but Cybertron is pretty good, but damn if there isn't a lot of stock footage, no, I have to give this one to Beast Machines, with Beast Wars following pretty close behind.  Overall storyline...no, other than Sideways, the only good parts were taken from G1, and depending on the series, half was alway bad, even from most fan's perspectives (1st half of Armada, 2nd half of Energon - votes still out on Cybertron)...besides, BW had the best overall story.

 

OK, I guess it's not so obvious.  What manner of criteria could qualify the Armadaverse as the best 3 TF series?

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Yes, 'cause Starscream being devotedly loyal to Megatron was such a strong focal point in G1. Or Megatron actually possessing a personality or intellect. Or Optimus Prime being essentially a warmonger. Or a Quintesson being a tragic character. Or Wheeljack turning to the Decepticons because the Autobots basically abandoned him and left him to die, and it was Megatron who saved his life. Or that Unicron came to be as the result of the wars and hatred in the universe. All taken straight from G1, right.

 

:roll

 

And the Unicron Trilogy is the best based on that it's story and characters are the best.

 

Beast Wars was good, very good, but not that good. A fair number of episodes are inconsequential, Cheetor was ridiculously young, down right childish even, the robot modes were ugly, Terrorsaur was annoying and completely unconvincing as a legimate usurper, Scorponok was dull and undeveloped (I dare you to say that he had more personality than Demolishor or Energon's Scorponok), Blackarachnia's sole personality trait was that she was a "goth chick," and the animation doesn't quite hold up (neither does Armada's admittingly). And if you are going to mark down Armada as a G1 rip off, then what about BW? Two opposing robot armies crash on prehistoric Earth, the leaders are named Optimus and Megatron, there's a traitorous usurper that desires to replace Megatron as leader and is a flier, etc. Really, if you really think about it, BW is arguably the bigger G1 imitater.