Is this thread still going? Jeebus. Either go or don't go.

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And that's hardly the point. When discussion stops, there is no longer a need for a messageboard.

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Here's my point: Transfans are too rabid and addicted to let something like money stand in their way. After all, we're talking about the same people who spend hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars every year for toys that they're not even going to play with. A crackhead isn't going to boycott his dealer.

Tripredacus Posted Today, 08:08 AM

  QUOTE(Ol' Timer @ Jun 13 2005, 05:44 AM)

WTF IS CASINO NIGHT AND WHO GIVES A BlotE??!!! STFU!!!

 

I mean really, is this a Transformers convention or a CASINO??!!  STOOPID!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yea like we need SOMETHING ELSE to take out money away from us... Transformers is enough isn't it? Maybe if they had some chip exchange for toys program... like they do at arcades with tickets. Say you get a million chips and you can trade them for a Black Zarak or something.

 

I have never been able to **afford** to go to a convention, not because of the admission price, but because I wouldn't have been able to buy any toys!

 

 

 

 

you bet me to it :thumb  i was going to say maybe you could win big in the casino and use your winnings to buy more transformers.......come on lucky 7, daddy need him a fort max

I think the Casino Night is for adult collectors or for the parents of child collectors who don't give a smurf about TFs.

I warn you all now this is a very lengthy post but everyone should take the time to read everything in it because it's going to answer alot of questions and revel NEW information. 

 

Ok I have been speaking with Brain Savage off and on today via email.  He has given me permission to post his email on the boards.  He took the time to sit and reply in depth to the email I sent him containg my original post.  I now have a much stronger idea of why things are being done the way they are and I want to share them with you all.  Needless to say I no longer have complaints over their customer service or that they aren't listening.  I do continue to feel there should be a $60.00 - $75.00 package that offers what the Mini-con package offers plus the chance to buy the toys.  That being said though isn't how Master Collector sets it's prices.  Brian had this to say on price setting taken from a seperate email:

 

We are both coming at this from different angles.  We don't take one

price and add another piece to it and then another and then another to

reach an end price.  This is what it looks like you are trying to figure out.

 

We don't look at it that way.  We look at it from the total cost and then

back into what we think the attendance will be for that level.  We can't

break the costs down into components as there is a lot of pure overhead,

and where would it go? 

 

Don't think of it like a menu, it won't add up that way.  Think of it

more like a car and you get the LX or DS or whatever package the car

comes in but you can't just add air, you get the power windows in the

same package, leather seats etc.

 

 

Now here is the original reply to my email from Brian:

 

Joshua,

 

First of all let me say thanks for writing and I will try to answer what

questions I can.  Now let me lay some ground work. Pete and Rik along

with three others have helped to craft the convention plans, evolving

programs, sets and activities.  Also they have tried to be a conduit to

help others understand what is going on in the club. 

 

I am one person and do not have the time to watch every board and every

thread, it is impossible.  So I rely on collectors such as Pete and Rik

to help answer questions.

 

There has been no "refusal to maintain a proper dialogue with the fans

through the forums."  I have answered every email that has been sent to

me and I know Rik, Pete and the others have done their best to answer

questions.

 

There have only been about 15 people who have made comments to me via

email.  Some questions, some praises, some complaints. 

 

The convention is designed with a package at every price level which I

will recap at the end.  The major problem I see so far is that this is

such a change from the past, folks are having a hard time understanding it.

 

Why are there changes? Because the former promoter's program did not

work.  If it had, we would not be trading emails today.  We were brought

in because we have a 9 year history of providing top quality programs

with top quality exclusives and souvenirs.

 

To do a quality event, it costs a lot of money.  To produce such an

ambitious set costs lots of money.  We have been working 14-16 hour days

to get all of this ready for you in a very short time frame.

 

You would probably not believe it if I told you how much a convention

like this costs but let me give you an example.  Were you in Chicago last

year?  I was. ALOT of mad people. Why?  No toys, disorganization,

substandard events, things ran off schedule, place looked like a garage,

had about half the dealers than should have been there.  I know because I

talked to a lot of people.  I am guessing they had a staff of about 5

people (with volunteers sprinkled here and there) as I watched the line

in the dealer room go on ALL day.  When we do a show, we bring a staff of

around 25 people.  Just the staff alone costs around $1,500 per person to

have them work the event.  So if you calculate this out, staff costs

alone come to around $37-$40,000.  We try to provide the highest possible

level of customer service.

 

Has anyone ever cut 3 new tools for a convention, I think not.  Has there

ever been a 7 figure set before? Nope.  Are we ambitious in trying to

bring you the best convention ever with the most outrageous set you have

ever had, YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT!

 

It seems to me that the main complaint is that we have tried to do a set

that is too much, too many figures.  Again, doing things that are one off

of retail does not make it very special.  Collectors complained that they

were not being taken care of in the past so here you go, something that

is beyond anything that has been conceived before.  And if folks don't

want that many figures, we can look at that after this year. But it is

all cast in stone now.

 

So far our track record has been outstanding.  In 6 months, we have

provided the collecting community more than the former group did in 2

years.  We have a lot of other plans for Transformers Fans and if you are

not a club member, you should be.

 

The point of a CONVENTION is to fully participate in every event you can.

Going to seminars, having fun with your friends at the Casino Night with

collector prizes (BTW the most popular event with the collectors and this

was a surprise to us. Every year we don't do it we get major complaints),

room to room trading, the dinner event (won't be boring - I promise)

along with hunting for items in the sales room are all part of the

EXPERIENCE a CONVENTION brings you.  Enjoying the camaraderie of your

fellow collectors and making new friends is what this is all about. This

EXPERIENCE will last much longer than the memory of what you purchased at

any past toy show.

 

Yes the sales room is a part of the convention, but in the long run it is

the people that matter.

 

We believe that anyone who comes to the convention and does not take the

full package is only cheating themselves of the full experience.  But, we

tried to make a package that would fall in everyone's budget and that is

why we have the Protoform Package.

 

Also, there is no "PENALTY" for not being a member. There is a reward for

BEING a member and participating in the club.  A discount on the

convention set is just one of the great things you receive as a member

and if you break it down by month it comes to $3.33 a month.  What is

that?  Three soft drinks a month?  Again, seems like a good, fair value

to me particularly since you get 6 ongoing comics in a 4 color newsletter

AND a free figure every year!

 

I know the past the former promoter really burned some people, and again

that is why we were brought in.  We produce quality events and quality

items at a fair price.  Look at the price again.  Transformers that are

made in the quantity of tens of thousands sell for $10-$50 retail.

 

If you divide the $265 by 8 that is $33 a piece. There are only 1,250 of

these pieces made.  Seems like a really low price for such a big set and

hey, it falls close to the middle range of what all transformers cost.

So we are offering to you at close to retail prices a very, very, limited

edition.  And some of you have been asking, yes, the box is quite large

19" x 12" x 3".

 

We are very conscientious  of all pricing for every item we do.  We try

to keep everything as low as we can.  There is a local bike store that

has a saying on the wall:  "The worst thing a business can do to their

customers is to under price themselves and go out of business".

 

As of today, you have not heard the whole story of the guests and the

souvenirs we will have. There will be other souvenir figures in the

$30-$40 price range that you can walk up and buy. However, those will not

be announced until the convention.  We will not break the boxed set up.

However, there will be a lot of folks that buy the Primus Package and the

extra set of bots and part them out.  And if they can do that, more power

to them. Let me reemphasize that even with the $9 GA, there will be souvenir

figures in a $30-$40 (we don't know the final costs yet as there are some

decisions to be made, and these are approximate) available at BotCon.

But note that they will be available first come first serve starting on

Thursday night with the registered guests.  On Thursday night we limit

everyone so that each registered guest has the opportunity to purchase

the same number.  Could we run out?  It's possible but not probable.

 

 

Joshua, we work very, very hard. I doubt anyone else would do what I do

and what I have my employees do.  It is quite grueling.  Just to give you

another number, it took 137 different images just to deco all of the

items we are doing.  That is about 2 weeks worth of work that was done in

6 days.

 

If you want to blame anyone for anything that goes on with the

convention, you can blame me.  I am the one that is trying to bring the

fans a world class event.  I guess the fans need to decide if they want a

world class event or a local toy show because based on the success of the

former promoter, the a la carte local toy show program is a failure for

the fans, promoter, and the manufacturer.

 

I hope I have helped you understand.  We know that some folks will have

to save up to come to the show and that is why we have given you this

information as soon as we could.  However, the last thing I would ever

want to do is have someone save up for six months for an event and then

be let down because it did not meet their expectations.  Meeting customer

expectations and making collectors feel special about themselves is what

is all is about.

 

Here is a recap of the packages:

 

We believe that we have every budget and desire covered with these:

 

1. We offer a $9 General Admission entry on Sat or Sun that includes the

seminars on those days IF there are seats available (registered guests

first several hundred seats available). When has there been an entry that

cheap at a Con? Last year's entry was $40. Not many families can afford

that.  There will be souvenir figures you can buy that are not in the

package for a low cost.

 

2. We offer a $120 entry (Protoform) for those who are only worried about

the early entry to the sales room on Friday & Saturday but don't want the

toys or dinner AND they really want to come to the Friday private

seminars.  (most presenters will present 2x but their topic may change)

 

3. We offer a $265 entry (Primus) that includes everything. (BTW this is

$30 cheaper than last year's set if you purchased one of everything).

This set includes 7 figures plus a bonus item (compare that to last

years' two items, oh and btw, did you get BOTH those items last year?).

 

4. We offer a package for family members (Mini Con) who just want to go

to everything with the main collector for $75, which includes the dinner/

all seminars & events, AND if you have more kids you need to bring, the

extra Mini Con package is $65 to help families afford to come.  This is a

money saver for families you have never had before.

 

5. We offer a non-attending set (Iacon) (has not been done before). Yes

it is the same price as the attending set and you don't get the dinner or

the extra item, BUT we SHIP it to you for no extra cost.

 

6. We offer a second set of the figures loose for half price (limit one

per boxed set). This has never been done before and it allows you a

second set to display or play with. Price it out per figure - $20 each.

This seems to be very fair to us. (Last year if you wanted a second

figure to take out of the box it was MORE than the first, not less)

 

7. The dealer rate for a 3-table booth is between $100 or $55 LESS

(depending on if you were on the wall or not) than last year's OTFCC.

Single tables are also LESS than last year.  Oh and the electric and

phone?  We worked a deal with the hotel to get the price down.  They set

those prices, we don't.

 

I am really puzzled on how we can make more, different, packages. This

seems to meet every budget and desire. The problem is that this is all

very different, and folks really have to read the brochure to understand

the different levels. I know that it is a lot but I am sure it will all

become clearer over time as we release more information. We just wanted

to get these forms up as soon as we could.

 

When you finally see the set and box, you will agree that it is WELL

worth the price. We will post pictures when we have items that are viewable. 

 

We have been working with many different collectors over the last 6

months and this set/convention has been produced with their guidance and

is an EXCELLENT value for Transformers collectors. 

 

Again, we understand that some may need to save for the set.  This is why

we got you the registration forms as soon as they were available.  There

will be a lot more information coming over the next couple of months and

we will show pictures as soon as we have samples from China that are

suitable to show.

 

FYI: The hotel is already over half full. If you wait too long, you won't

have a place to stay.

 

Thanks for your comments.  I hope this clears some of it up.

 

Brian

 

 

 

 

Feel free to discuss this information.  As I said earlier I have no choice but to retract my complaints found in paragraphs two and three of my original post that were about customer service, maintaining communication, and listening.  While I understand the pricing choices they have made I still feel that can be tweaked but it will be next year before we see any changes at all.  The only real complaint left is for those that wish to purchase the exclusive set but can not due to the cost of that package while it remains the only way to get that set.

Q.E.D.

Like he said though, the exclusives don't actually cost that much.  100's of people payed $175+ for predaking, and that was only 5 pieces, no remolds.

Is this thread still going? Jeebus. Either go or don't go.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And that's hardly the point. When discussion stops, there is no longer a need for a messageboard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here's my point: Transfans are too rabid and addicted to let something like money stand in their way. After all, we're talking about the same people who spend hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars every year for toys that they're not even going to play with. A crackhead isn't going to boycott his dealer.

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I'm one of those Transfans and I'm definitely going to let this stand in my way of going to the con. I don't mind spending money on Transformers. I just don't spend money on stuff I don't want. The toys, I want. I will find a way to get them. The con, I wanted to go to, but not enough to pay for stuff that I won't be taking part in.What's the one thing that keeps me knowing that I am doing the right thing? The majority of the people I'd be going to the con to hang out with aren't going either. It looks like it's going to be a pretty fandom wide decision to sit this one out.

 

I think the Casino Night is for adult collectors or for the parents of child collectors who don't give a smurf about TFs.

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That was my line of thinking as well, but if it's so... couldn't the rest of us who aren't there for someone else just elect not to buy into that portion? One would think that is the logical idea.

Were you in Chicago last

year?  I was. ALOT of mad people. Why?  No toys, disorganization,

substandard events, things ran off schedule, place looked like a garage,

had about half the dealers than should have been there.  I know because I

talked to a lot of people.  I am guessing they had a staff of about 5

people (with volunteers sprinkled here and there) as I watched the line

in the dealer room go on ALL day.

What?!?!? What con was he at? OTFCC? I don't remember any of that being a problem over any portion of my weekend. "No toys" I seem to remember taking home a Mega Zarak. "Disorganization" Maybe a little, but it didn't effect my weekend in the least. "Substandard events" Once again. Which con did he go to? Every event met my expectations. "Things ran off schedule" Like which events? Every event I attended was on time. "Place looked like a garage" Maybe that's because he was IN the garage and not in the convention center. "Had about half the dealers than should have been there" Exactly where were the other dealers going to fit? That room was packed full of people selling Transformers merchandise. And he knows because he talked to a lot of people? Sounds like to me, he talked to people with big 3H chips on their shoulders. "Line in the dealer room"? WTF? To get in you mean? Maybe before the doors actually opened, because there were so many attendees. Also, there was a SciFi convention being held there upstairs the first day of the con and they also had a line. I think these are bad examples if one is trying to justify the setup of this year's con.

How about we just have a little picnic without all the hype?

How about we just have a little picnic without all the hype?

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I'm down.