perhaps there Spark split in too,

woo woo woo!

malapropism alert!

 

I think you meant "thier"

I'm gonna get on my high horse here, so if I get a little too out of line, then someone has permission to Internet-slap me.

 

I'm all for theological undertones, but only if they're done this subtle. Anything that becomes preachy and overdrawn not only gets melodramatic and really uncomfortable, but it can drive people away from religion. At least, that's been my experience with some of my friends. If it makes sense and it's not preachy, then run with the ball, I say.

However (and this is where I'm not sure if I'll offend anyone reading this), I'm glad to finally see some form of theology, intentional or not, in kids' cartoons that doesn't try to glorify witches and Wiccans. Now, I am going to go on record and say that I have nothing against Wiccanism (if that's the term), but it just irks the living daylights out of me that there will always be an uproar if there's any kind of mention of God or Jesus by name or appearance in secular children's programming, yet it's OK to make your main character a witch and have them practice magic. I've seen flipping pentagrams in cartoons for crying out loud! It just bothers me that we can turn a blind eye to one type of religion (which is what it is) yet make great strides to avoid all others in the name of "separation of church and state" or something like that.

 

Again, I have nothing against you if you're Wiccan. It's what you believe and I can respect that. All I'm saying is that if they're going to introduce that one belief system, then they need to do all beliefs in order to remain fair.

 

Wow, maybe I got a little off-topic, but that's what I had to say.

It makes for interesting fiction. Almost every major sci fi epic (Star War, Star Trek, Babylon 5, Farscape, Stargate, etc...) has some or many forms of alien religions. So why not the TFs. Unicron and Primus are more like yin and yang, equal but opposite forces. In the Judeo-Christian tradition, the devil's power is not equal to God's. Lucifer is a fallen angel, a cheribum, so his power is only equal to another cheribum. The cosmic being that created Primus and Unicron, the One, can be compared to God.

I'm gonna get on my high horse here, so if I get a little too out of line, then someone has permission to Internet-slap me.

 

I'm all for theological undertones, but only if they're done this subtle. Anything that becomes preachy and overdrawn not only gets melodramatic and really uncomfortable, but it can drive people away from religion. At least, that's been my experience with some of my friends. If it makes sense and it's not preachy, then run with the ball, I say.

However (and this is where I'm not sure if I'll offend anyone reading this), I'm glad to finally see some form of theology, intentional or not, in kids' cartoons that doesn't try to glorify witches and Wiccans. Now, I am going to go on record and say that I have nothing against Wiccanism (if that's the term), but it just irks the living daylights out of me that there will always be an uproar if there's any kind of mention of God or Jesus by name or appearance in secular children's programming, yet it's OK to make your main character a witch and have them practice magic. I've seen flipping pentagrams in cartoons for crying out loud! It just bothers me that we can turn a blind eye to one type of religion (which is what it is) yet make great strides to avoid all others in the name of "separation of church and state" or something like that.

 

Again, I have nothing against you if you're Wiccan. It's what you believe and I can respect that. All I'm saying is that if they're going to introduce that one belief system, then they need to do all beliefs in order to remain fair.

 

Wow, maybe I got a little off-topic, but that's what I had to say.

I hate to say it (because it means I'm getting dragged into this), but the reverse is also true. For every mention of Wicca, witchcraft, or devils in general, unless the context they (Wicca, witchcraft, or devils in general) are shown as evil, there is a right-wing group calling the creators of the show the spawn of Satan.

 

Now, I'm not going to take sides here. Personally, I think the most vocal on both sides of the theological fence need to shut the smurf up for a while.

 

As for TF's ... Like has been mentioned, as long as it isn't detracting from the story it's fine with me. :thumb

Now, I'm not going to take sides here. Personally, I think the most vocal on both sides of the theological fence need to shut the smurf up for a while.

I'm with you on that one. :thumb

It's true that almost all sci-fi has some element of religious allegory in it. Lexx, for instance, was just about as amoral as all get out, but it was rife with allusions to the heaven, hell, the Catholic church, and the reformation. And anyway, the Matrix had a LOT more allegory than TF's ever did (at least rodimus never had a CROSS on his chest), so I can't complain.

 

And it does make sense that most life forms would develop religious beliefs, even mechanical lifeforms. I just don't like it when gods become real.

Im a great fan of it.  I dont know why u are not.  The way its done is subtle, and in fact, nothing is actually certain.  Tfs have doubts about whether Primus is actually existent, a god and so on.

 

I think youll find almost EVERY story ever created alludes to something greater than the some of our parts.  Tthis is a condition found in the human spirit.

 

As for it being "Christian" idiologies, well, its not completely unfair, but I, even as  Christian myself, happy for other forms of religious/theological idears to permeate.

 

For example, Bhuddist ideals of reincarnation seem to be similar to "reformatting" or rejuvination after stasis lock. Optimus Prime living again, or even the "reincarnation" of a "prime" via the Matrix passing on and reformatting another host seems to also allude to this precept too.

 

The very fact that quasi-religious/spiritual ideals are linked to a mechanoid race seems paradoxical, and the new Bbattlestar Glactica seems to have this concept, then the TFs, who had it a long time before, can too.

 

:pfx

Theology, Christian or other is an invaluable when developing characters who stand on either the side of good or evil. Personally as a Christian myself I think a better term for this would be spirituality which for one goes much deeper into a characters beliefs rather than just there mental way of thinking. Any character can stand for either good or evil in any comic book/movie without any belief system in tact and that's fine but it leaves out an intricate demension to who that character is and why they're either good/evil. I further believe that an epic battle between good/evil is never played out to full potential without a spiritual side to it. Good/pure evil can't exist without a spiritual iinfluence in someway. It's basically the underlining element in Star Wars, Matrix, Lord of the Rings and now Transformers, and they've been able to do without being obvious, preachy or condemning of mainstream viewers.

I think Furman went in the right direction with the Transformers because as i've said already it adds so much more to the G1 good bot/bad bot shoot em up formula. Now there's actually something that defines/rectifies the ongoing fighting, and differences between the Autobots/Decepticons. I never saw much of Furman's work on the Marvel serries but I thougohly enjoyed what he did with Generation 2, and the ongoing G1,WW series.

The spirituality, evident though sutble works well and I think it helps not to immediately relate it directly as scripture, and identify everyone as God, Satan, Jesus, Apostles etc. but to see it as the way an epic tale of good and evil should unfold with unseen forces of good/darkness actiing out there role on both sides (even if these forces are Primus/Unicron)

Well that's all I have to say about it unless someone else challenges me otherwise. Untill then I'll respectfully shut the smurf up. :wave

I'm just happy with if they keep it to a minimum and of course not getting preachy. It's interesting that robots would have some sort of theology, that's the beauty of sci-fi, but as long as it's subtle and doesn't get too silly.

It was slowly leaked in by Furman during his original run... when he introduced Sparks he touched upon it...

When did Furman introduce Sparks?!?

 

If I recall correctly, they were introduced by the Beast Wars writers...

 

woo woo woo!

malapropism alert!

 

I think you meant "thier"

 

And I think you meant "their". :tftongue

 

I'm all for theological undertones, but only if they're done this subtle. Anything that becomes preachy and overdrawn not only gets melodramatic and really uncomfortable, but it can drive people away from religion.

 

"Preachy"? As in "proselytizing"? I don't really see Furman actually preaching the religion of Primus...

perhaps there Spark split in too,

woo woo woo!

malapropism alert!

 

I think you meant "thier"

or 'their' even :tfgrin