Wow, you guys started this thread off right. I don't think any of this has been argued over the past week. :roll

 

:agree

 

 

*raises hand*

 

I could have directed a better movie.

 

I love the 2 movies, but I could have done better. Better plot, more robots, less annoying humans, and a movie that is both kid friendly and mature at the same time.

 

I doubt that.

 

This isn't a personal attack. Everyone has their own idea of how things "should" be. Ask any two fans and their answers will likely not mesh together.

 

Remember Watchmen? It was so faithful to the graphic novel that the fans loved it...but it totally turned off the casual movie audience. I respect Bay for opening the franchise to non-Transformers fans and not pulling an X-Files (making the movie so connected and dependent on a TV series people may not have seen).

 

Do I think Transformers sold out? No. "Selling out" means changing an essential part of the original formula just to make more money. Autobots and Decepticons? Check. Human allies? Check.

 

:agree

 

I couldn't agree more on the whole Watchmen thing here and I'll keep this brief for those of you who have seen Watchmen but didn't like it because you never read the original graphic novel/series etc. Watchmen is, and I have to say that it helped that Zach Snyder got his feet and for that matter whole body wet with 300 first, the most faithful comic book to movie adaptations. Yah, there are some differences but, you needed to have those differences in order to make the movie work. In fact, and I can say this because there is no bigger fan of Watchmen(book or movie) than I, there were parts of the movie which I thought were better than the book. There were parts which just translated better on screen than on paper. But I digress... I am not the typical movie goer when I watched that movie both times in the theatre. Some of my friends who have no idea what the original source material is about came up to me after they had went to watch it and asked me what was what etc. They liked it but, they weren't like me who was "Wowed!" by it. I'll stop there.

 

My point to this is that I really don't think Bay sold out or whatever on the Transformers. And if you think you could have done a better job directing this movie than him. You really need to check yourself at the door! Because damn, the sheer scope and magnitude of this movie and making sure that every shot which has a human interacting with a robot on some level takes more than you will ever have. This isn't a simple matter of pointing y'r Sony camcorder at y'r cousin walking down the aisle to get married. This is making sure that everyone(100's of people) are doing there jobs to make sure that the one shot you see on screen for all of like what 30 secs and took weeks to set up is not going to get all FUBAR!

 

I would love shake Michael Bay's hand and thank him for doing to the franchise what he did. I applaud him for his efforts. And I have to say that anyone who says bad shit about this film or the first one, a close friend of mine is one of them and we have agreed to disagree on these films, get over it!

 

So yah, I doubt that you could have directed a better movie than this!

Do I think Transformers sold out? No. "Selling out" means changing an essential part of the original formula just to make more money. Autobots and Decepticons? Check. Human allies? Check.

Well...essential parts were changed (i.e., Megatron being subservient, instead of supreme Decepticon leader) & completely new characters that have never had anything to do with the essential part of the original formula (i.e., the Twins & Isabel...raunchy humor & sexual innuendos) were obviously added in an attempt to appeal to a wider audience, thus more money to be made. And that's just a few examples...but doesn't that fit the confines of your definition of "selling out"? Just saying...there's stuff I liked, there's stufff I didn't like...seems like the general consensus.

 

Per the interview with the WSJ, I think it's a great idea for Bay to take a vacation away from Transformers & explosions, and explore character driven projects. It could help...definitely couldn't hurt. :shrug

 

1. Doesn't Megatron's change to Galvatron and his service to Unicron count? Besides, now that The Fallen is gone, he's back on top.

 

2. You make it seem like new characters should never be added to any new Transformers series.

 

3. That's what I've been wondering--the sexual innuendos and really crass jokes weren't advertised, so can you really count them as "drawing in a wider audience?" Or is it more of "now that you've got them in the theater, make 'em laugh?"

 

I understand what you're saying; I'll admit the movie wasn't perfect, but I did enjoy it. All the Transformers fans I know loved it, and the non-fans I know thought it rocked out loud.

1. Not really...that was a 'be forced to or you'll be destroyed' proposition.

2. That's you reading into it...I never said that.

3. You know, you've got a point with the Twins not being in the trailers that much...once I got in the theater, the amount of toilet humor from them & other characters (primarily humans) did actually surprise me! So in that instance, I didn't see what I thought I was going to as portrayed through all the trailers...which I thought would focus more on being an action film, rather than having SO many "make 'em laugh" moments. :shrug As for sexual innuendos...Megan Fox straddling the motorcycle with her ass in the air was in more than a few trailers. However, both examples that I used were in response to 'changing essential parts of the original formula' being defined as "selling out". I see what you're saying as well, though. :thumb

 

I had fun as well...with parts of it. If it were edited appropriately, I think there would be less discussion on all these questionable elements, and more focus on all the kick ass parts. The only Transformers fans that I know who LOVED it...are on this site. Most of my friends & co-workers...not so much (and we're all in the entertainment business).

The only people that I've heard complain about either Bay movie is on this site. I have many friends who are casual TF and are not as die hard as I am and they loved both films. I personally like both movies, the first, not as much as the second. Anyone who says the can make a better TF film than Bay either needs to take the piss or get off the pot. I have an Associates degree in computer animation, if you think making imaginary characters to scale and compositing animations of them with live video is easy, then please, please post links of your film. Yes, RotF was flawed, well, so was the 80's movie. If Bay's movies suck so hard then why is are so many people paying money to see them? The real thing is all the older fans want a live action movie with robots that look like G1. I admit, I would die to see a movie like that, but I'm also glad that we got a different take on Transformes and we got a lot of great toys from it as well.

"There are things that I invented - the creaky geriatric robot that is always grumpy, for example, or the little wheelie guy, he’s not in the Hasbro lore. But kids love that stuff - this little guy as a pet on a chain. They gravitate towards it."

 

This one had me scratching my head - who is Michael Bay referring to when he says 'kids'? Is that what they call the marketable teenage demographic nowadays?

"There are things that I invented - the creaky geriatric robot that is always grumpy, for example, or the little wheelie guy, he’s not in the Hasbro lore. But kids love that stuff - this little guy as a pet on a chain. They gravitate towards it."

 

This one had me scratching my head - who is Michael Bay referring to when he says 'kids'? Is that what they call the marketable teenage demographic nowadays?

Exactly! PG-13 and "Ages 5+" are in a bit of a conflict, aren't they?

that really must have been a smart conversation and i'm not being sarcastic i'm being serious

Greetings fellow TF fans

 

I have to say I didn't like a lot of what I saw in this movie

 

I was willing to forgive all of the minor quibbles I had with the last movie, because overall it was pretty decent, and I enjoyed seeing the characters brought to life in this new medium

 

I can still remember watching the entire first movie with a silly grin on my face - awesome :yay

 

 

I remember saying to my wife (who had enquired about my grin) that this was my childhood on screen... so much of what I am today is because of those "robots"

 

I remember telling her that the man I had become was because of that big red and blue truck

 

He always stood for the right... he was uncompromising in his belief that all life was sacred and must be protected

 

The lessons I got from OP stayed with me... he was a father figure, a role model

 

 

This brings me to this movie... the most vexing thing for me was not the crude humor or the Twins' controversy - it was the character of the Autobots and especially Prime

 

Since when do Autobots gang up on isolated Decipticons and mercilessly kill them? :wtf

 

OP personally puts a bullet in a terminally damaged Decepticon, without showing an ounce of remorse or batting a servo!

 

In the first movie Prime showed so much regret that he was forced to down Megatron

 

Now Prime seems bloodthirsty, going and a rampage and dropping snappy one-liners after he takes a Con off-line :tfhuh

 

 

Now I'm sure that there was some explanation written somewhere explaining why such extreme action must be taken by the Autobots, what bothers me is that Bay didn't think we deserved one

 

I left thinking - if this Optimus Prime had been my childhood role model, what a different man I would have become :roll

Although I may not have the skill to direct a big budget film. I could name some directors that could just as easily made a similar quality and probably a better Transformer film.

 

Guillermo del Toro - Pan's Labyrinth was one of his great films. Although his American films were not the greatest in quality, he does have an interesting sense of creature designs that could be translated into unique robot designs. You got to admit Hellboy and Hellboy 2 had its moments when it did its practical effects.

 

Gore Verbinski - Well he did make one of the most known big water movie The Pirates of Carribbean. The source material was from a Disney "RIDE". Think how easy it would have been to make a great movie from a toyline.

 

J.J. Abrams - He is on a constant roll with his clever series LOST. He also gave a fresh reboot to the Star Trek franchise, and he directed a clever monster flick called Cloverfield. He knows how to direct blockbusters with a plot and great characters.

 

Sam Raimi - Come on this guy has made hit after hit. He gave us great cult classics like Evil Dead 1 and 2. The Spiderman trilogy well maybe except number 3. Not only that he has a more tasteful sense of humor then Michael Bay.

 

Peter Jackson - Man, if you never got into Lord of the Rings, you are missing out. Not only was he pretty faithful to Tolkien's universe, he gave it new life. He can just as easily make a expansive rich Transformer's universe into the movie world.

 

Steven Spielberg - Who can forget the legend of all summer blockbusters? He is not only a blockbuster director, he has a great deal of range in genres. From Jaws to Schindler's List from dinosaurs in Jurassic Park to the mischievous Gremlins I am sure he had the chops in creating a fun and memorable blockbuster.

 

These directors do not simply take an existing franchise and copy word for word. They make it their own and update/change the things that are necessary. Not only that, they respect the existing source material.

 

Although I MAY have not been able to direct a big blockbuster, there certainly is others more capable then Michael Bay.

Guillermo del Toro - Pan's Labyrinth was one of his great films. Although his American films were not the greatest in quality, he does have an interesting sense of creature designs that could be translated into unique robot designs. You got to admit Hellboy and Hellboy 2 had its moments when it did its practical effects.

Not to mention, Hellboy II: The Golden Army has an 88% rating on rottentomatoes.com - it's got as many good reviews as Revenge of the Fallen has bad, and vice versa. Let's all think about that one for a minute....

interesting how he craps back on megan fox. i knew her from 'hope and faith.' in your face, bay!