Not all the Transformers were Technorganic at the End of BM. Strika, and Obsidian came back to cybertron and refused to be reformated in a cut scene. While Sideswipe, Trailbreakor, Roullete, and Shadowstriker  were on an Mission of some sorts, and were Fully Mechanical in Universe #1 wich takes place on Technorganic Cybertron. All of the Wreckers were probably Mechanacle when they were out running errors for Victer Sigma.

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Not a tfw2005 fan I guess.

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Because everyone posting at TFW 2005 should be held responsible for any potential personal beefs with the management or whatever else. Suuuure.

Thanks for the info Nevermore :thumb  I never knew what the japanese shows were about before.

I like Spengler's stuff but I have to disagree with him on this one.

 

While there is nothing absolute that say that Car Robots directly follows Neo, there's nothing that says that it can't.

 

I always understood it as being dimension hopping TFs from the BW Neo time, or at least some of them were. Kinda like Sliders meets Transformers.

 

I would like to, just to play Devil's Advocate, answer some of his points:

 

So Beast Wars Neo ends with a TRULY united Seibertron. So where did Gigatron (Megatron) and his Destrongers (Predacons) come from? The ruling council of Seibertron was destroyed, leaving Big Convoy and Magmatron to unite both factions as equal races on Seibertron. No more conflict. The resistance isn't resisting anymore.

 

No leader ever represents every group or individual. Just because Magmatron and BigConvoy made peace and their troops followed them, doesn't mean that every single Destron & Cybertron feels the same way. The Destrongers could just as well be a group of extremists that obeyed no one but Gigatron. It is also possible that they weren't even present and were already dimension hopping before the events of BW Neo.

 

Also consider that Beast Wars Returns (Beast Machines) was finally placed into Japanese continuity in 2004. Beast Wars Returns takes place after the events of Beast Wars Neo and happens exactly as it did in America: The Cybertrons return from Enerogia with Megatron who unleashes his plague on all of Seibertron.

 

BWR works perfectly well after BW Neo, and doesn't conflict with Car Robots, if the events happen simultaneously with BWII and or Neo. It is also possible that it started in the space of time between Neo and BWR, since we have no idea what may have occured during that span of time.

 

If you recall the ending of Beast Wars Returns, hundreds of Transformers were seen running in triumph together in the glorius new techno-organic Seibertron. Still no more conflict between the factions.

 

How can you tell? They're just sillouettes. Waspinator/Thrust certainly didn't seem very peaceful before they swatted him. Just because they're elated at being freed doesn't mean those same old prejudices don't remain. It looks to be not very different than the situation the the Marvel Comics after the battle with Unicron.

 

You also have to consider the date in which Car Robots takes place. In the first episode, Yuki (Koji) and his father are attending the New Year's celebration in New York City, preparing for the year 2000. Car Robots is firmly established to take place in 2000.

 

Correct, but that doesn't mean that the Cybertrons and Destrongers are from the year 2000.

 

If you recall, the Beast Wars universe is an extension of the Generation 1 universe. By the year 2000 the Cybertrons and the Destrons were well established on Earth, having been there for 15 years. In Car Robots no one had ever heard of the Transformers before; they were completely new.

 

That just means that it takes place in a universe different from Classic TF, but that's fairly evident in Beast Wars, as well. Megatron mentions that the war of the Transformers was a "secret war", so that would fit with what we see in Car Robots. Also, it may well be an Earth in an Alternate Universe, but the TFs involved are dimesional travellers, so that doesn't mean that it's not related to Neo. The Cybertrons and Destrongers could still be from the Neo Universe.

 

Were Car Robots to take place after Beast Wars Neo, not only would the Transformers have had to travel back in time, but to an alternate dimension as well. It is stated that the show takes place on Earth in another dimension. Whether the Cybertrons and Destrongers traveled back in time as well is not mentioned, but can easily be assumed. You think that would solve the issue, but it doesn't. A problem still remains; Devil Gigatron (Galvatron) mentions that he had conquered several universes, planets, and destroyed Earth in the dimension they all originated from. According to Beast Wars II, Earth was never destroyed...at least, not in their present time.

 

Who says that he didn't destroy Gaia/Earth after BWII? Besides there are several definitions of destroying a planet. You can blow up the whole planet, or you can kill all of its inhabitants. Perhaps Gigatron is the reason for the lack of humans on Gaia.  Also if he's been time travelling and dimension hopping then there's no reason why all of that couldn't be true, and none of that conflicts with Neo.

 

In order for Devil Gigatron's claim to work, they'd have to have destroyed Earth and escaped to another dimension and begun conquering universes some time after Beast Wars Returns. But Car Robots cannot take place after the events of Beast Wars Returns, seeing as how none of the Cybertrons and Destrongers are "techno-organic"; an upgrade that happened to ALL Transformers at the end of Beast Wars Returns.

 

There are two ways that will work.

 

1) Gigatron destroyed Gaia/Earth and started dimension hopping after the events of BW II and before the end of Neo

 

or

 

2) All of that happened simultaneously with or after BWR. None of the Cybertrons or Destrongers were Technorganic because they were off-world at the time, like Botanica and her crew. They weren't caught by the virus and de-sparked because they weren't on Cybertron.

 

Devil Gigatron and God Magnus (Ultra Magnus) also mention that Seibertron's defenses are failing fast due to constant attacks from Destronger forces. For one thing, Seibertron is not at all under any attack in the time of Beast Wars II or Beast Wars Neo.

 

Considering that we don't see Cybertron after the initial episode of BWII, that statement can't really be completely accurate. The same could be said about Neo's middle eps, but even if the events mentioned in Car Robots in reference to Cybertron didn't happen before Neo, there's nothing to say that they didn't occur after Neo and before BWR, or even after BWR.

 

All the battles between the Cybertrons and the Destron rebels take place somewhere out in space, far away from Seibertron-itself. And on top of that, there is no such thing as a "Destronger" in the Beast Wars universe. The Destrons are still calling themselves the Destrons. The Destrongers were an off-shoot of the Destrons, only..."stronger" (get it?). So the events Devil Gigatron and God Magnus are talking about could not have happened any time before Beast Wars Returns

 

Just because they're not mentioned in the series doesn't mean they don't exist. It just means they weren't important to the story. We never heard of the Matrix of Leadership in the cartoon until the movie, and yet it definitely exists, and season 3/TF:2010 certainly doesn't take place in an alternate universe away from TF's 1st 2 seasons.

 

Also, alternate-continuity stories seem to be the new "thing" with the Japanese Transformers cartoons. Micron Legend (Armada) and Superlink (Energon) are a completely seperate universe from all previous Transformers cartoons. Galaxy Force (Cybertron) also appears to be a fresh start (though, apparantly, the american dub intends to make it a sequel to Energon somehow). "Starting over" is nothing out of the ordinary with the Japanese shows. Car Robots is just another what-if series, with no connection to any previous Transformers cartoon.

 

I agree that Armada and Energon are completely separate universes from traditional TF, but that doesn't mean that Car Robots is. I see Car Robots as vague enough so that it can fit with Neo if you want it to, or can be separate if you want it to be. It's not specific enough to pin down with 100% certainty either way. Elements that make it appear to be linked to Neo is the fact that the Destrongers wear Predacon sigils and Brave Maximus (which could have been one of the fleet of Maximus clones shown in Neo). Time Travel and Dimension hopping stories are always complex and cause alot of headaches. I don't see enougfh evidence either way to espouse either view. I see them both as equally valid points, with neither being right or wrong.

 

I really like Spengler's stuff. He really brings out alot of good points and good TF info, I just disagree with him on this one thing, because I don't believe it's as cut and dried as all that. :)

how can ANYONE think that car robots is a continuition of the JBW series? the fact that some one had to actually write an essay to set the record straight makes the fandom look way too dense.

 

Some of the ad copy for Car Robots had the 'Destrongers' as 'coming from the future' , presumably the BW2 timeline, to steal energon and power from the past. It actually still works in that sense, without changing much.

 

The essay is very wrong on one point, though. BWR is not 'canon' for the Japanese Beast Wars Universe. Takara was exceptionally clear on that point more than once. (Takara took exception to the BM ending, which was one reason they initially refused the line. Now they're just cash-desperate).

Some of the ad copy for Car Robots had the 'Destrongers' as 'coming from the future' , presumably the BW2 timeline, to steal energon and power from the past. It actually still works in that sense, without changing much.

 

The essay is very wrong on one point, though. BWR is not 'canon' for the Japanese Beast Wars Universe. Takara was exceptionally clear on that point more than once. (Takara took exception to the BM ending, which was one reason they initially refused the line. Now they're just cash-desperate).

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I find it hard to believe that the Japanese wouldn't be crazy about a show that borrowed so heavily from Eastern mysticism. :P

Theres no reason BWR CAN'T fit in.

Theres no reason BWR CAN'T fit in.

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Exactly. Look at Transtech. Those designs were all very robotic (though very sleek and sculpted). It would have been very easy for a TF writer to simply say that the level of integration between organic and technological had advanced/evolved since the days of Beast Machines.

I find it hard to believe that the Japanese wouldn't be crazy about a show that borrowed so heavily from Eastern mysticism. :P

 

Because it's hollywood Eastern Mysticism? :)

 

But, seriously, Takara was vocally hostile to the show back when, largely due to the ending - and also due to the fact that the Beast Wars sales, in general, had plummted due to the realtive suckness of the BWNeo show and toyline.

 

That's not to say that it couldn't fit in if you wanted it to, simply have BWII and BWNeo take place between BW's launch and BM's 'end of the world' - and have the Car Robots Destrongers leaving Cybertron and going safely into 'the past' - as BM Megatron was causing havoc.. and you're all set.

 

Just saying that Takara doesn't see it as so, or didn't. I doubt they care much abou the 'canon' of any line much anymore.

Because it's hollywood Eastern Mysticism? :)

 

But, seriously, Takara was vocally hostile to the show back when, largely due to the ending - and also due to the fact that the Beast Wars sales, in general, had plummted due to the realtive suckness of the BWNeo show and toyline.

 

That's not to say that it couldn't fit in if you wanted it to, simply have BWII and BWNeo take place between BW's launch and BM's 'end of the world' - and have the Car Robots Destrongers leaving Cybertron and going safely into 'the past' - as BM Megatron was causing havoc.. and you're all set.

 

Just saying that Takara doesn't see it as so, or didn't. I doubt they care much abou the 'canon' of any line much anymore.

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No, it's Easterm mysticism. I used to live in Taiwan and I know eastern philosophy when I see it.