Alright, this is picking up from another thread, but because of it's dichotomy from the original topic, I thought to start a new one.

 

I've seen numerous mentions in differing threads over the past year about how Rodimus Prime was a poor/crappy leader.  Whenever I'd see these comments I'd usually brush over them as I too liked the leadership qualities that Optimus Prime possessed and there was certainly sentimental value in Optimus.  But I recently had an opportunity to sit and watch all of Season 3 of the original series and I came out of it with a different perspective.  Some of which was voiced by "AutobotLoki" in the other thread.  I will quote him here Briefly.

 

As for Rodimus Prime he was a perfect contrast to what Optimus Prime was. Optimus Prime was the perfect stereotypical leader. Fits right in there with any other Bruckhiemer/Bay movie persona of a hero. Rodimus for one didn't even want to lead, but he's stuck with it and though he complains about it nonstop, and at times is indecisive, and conflicted he's characteristically more realistic as a leader than Optimus Prime. Though many don't see it I think this made Rodumas one of the more interesting characters to surface in G1. 

 

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Loki touches on exactly the reason I think Rodimus was a good leader.  He had flaws.  He had chinks in his armor and he let them show.  This is largely why people criticize him I believe.(That and the sentimentality of Optimus)  Optimus really didn't possess this and to Loki's point, was a less realistic character/leader.

 

Rodimus had difficulty with the 'mantel' of leadership.  He struggled with the weight of being responsible for everything.  By all indications he was a "young" robot.  We saw more of his growth process than we saw of Prime's.  Because he was younger we saw at times where he was selfish.  Consider the time when the Matrix was stolen from him by Wildrider and Deadend.  He didn't want the matrix back because of the stress and responsibility.  BUT,...in the end he grew from the process.  He learned that duty was more important than self.

 

I also can't get out of my head the episode where Daniel was having dreams and it was Rodimus who stood by his bed at night.  What leader charged with the protection of the planet would do such a thing?  Most would assign an underling.  "Hey Bumblebee, go watch Daniel while he sleeps and make sure he's ok."

 

Rodimus, although he had his times of selfishness, also had the best leadership quality.  'Self Sacrifice'.  As mentioned in the other thread, FFOD was a good example.  Springer had told him it was a foolish thing to do, but Hot Rod did it anyway so that he could find the answers that they all needed.

 

In conclusion, and in agreement with Loki, Rodimus was a good leader.  He had a depth of character that was never written into Optimus.  But most importantly, we had a chance to see him grow into his Leadership role.  A role that was never entirely played out because of Optimus' return.  Was he a better leader than Optimus?  If you compare Mature, older Optimus to a young and immature Rodimus, no.  But had we opportunity to see Optimus' younger years we might have seen some of the same mistakes...or different ones.

Did we get much of a chance to see a young Optimus? No and you may be right about Optimus not wanting the mantle of leadership placed upon him at a young age like Rodimus. Rodimus was never considered a good leader because of the legend of Prime and what Prime stood for. Rodimus had BIG shoes to fill when he became leader and no matter what Autobot would have become leader the same thing would have been said: He aint no Optimus Prime. After TF The Movie and the death of Prime I didnt follow the TF much after that and thats because Prime died and alot of my other Autobot favorites had been killed off so I dont know how to judge how good a leader Rodimus was. But one thing thats apparent and thats that Rodimus know matter how hard he tried could never escape the shadow of Optimus Prime and he always felt he could never be the leader that Optimus was. Rodimus was unsure of himself and his ablities and that became a hinderence to him. But it was always the Legend of Prime that haunted him. The same thing can be said of real life charchters like JFK. Alot of people have said there can never be another President like he was. Another example is Wrestling. Hulk Hogan is a wrestling god and many wrestlers have always tried to live up to what he did for the wrestling buisness and have failed because of his legend. Its the legened of what others did and their exploits that haunts those who want to be leaders or the next in line. The same can be said for Rodimus. He was haunted by a legend he could never escape the shadow of and that hurt him more ways then one.

 

 

:usa

Both of you have made some really good points.

Rodimus is indeed courageous, but he didn't want to be leader.

In FFOD, he says (I'm paraphrasing) "why am I the chosen one".  Then

later on in the episode Burden Hardest to bear he gets off his matrix

smatrix blast and leaves.  Also, in Dark Awakening he was very eager to

give the matrix back to Optimus even though he was warned by his fellow

autobots that Optimus is not in condition to resume leadership.  He gives

the matrix to him anyway and says "Alright, Hot Rod is back! Lets Party!"

People dogg Ultra Magnus saying he didn't want to be leader, but Rodimus

didn't want to lead either.  I think the problem with Rodimus is he wasn't

ready to lead at the time, chosen one or not.

I think Rodimus' character had a lot of potential. But I just don't think his character was particularly well-written in Season 3. One problem that was almost unavoidable was that the writers were still using the "magic reset button" formula in which any episode could come before or after any other episode. The problem for Rodimus is that any character development you see in a given episode gets magically wiped out at the end, and you're back to him doubting himself again at the beginning of the next episode. The overall effect created is that Rodimus is indecisive and overly whiny.

 

Also, I think there was some inconsistency in determining what kind of character Rodimus was. Sometimes he seemed to be written as a somewhat cavalier smartass; other times he was very introspective and even moody. Also, there were entire episodes where Rodimus was completely absent. How many pre-TF:TM episodes were there where Optimus Prime didn't show his face *once*? The only one I can think of is "A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court." Ultra Magnus seemed to be the de facto leader in some episodes (e.g. "Webworld"), which added to the sense of not really feeling like the Autobots had a real leader.

 

All that aside, ultimately the show was for kids. And while we can sit here and discuss Rodimus' frailty and insecurity, those aren't the kind of things that kids are really looking for. Optimus Prime was a father figure, and that's the reason why he was so enormously popular. As a guy who loves Beast Machines, I have to admit that that show wasn't really targeted for kids the way it should have been. It was way too heady for a young audience. Similarly, I think that Rodimus Prime and his "issues", while making him a more interesting character than Optimus Prime, don't necessarily belong in a kids' show.

 

I *am* interested, however, to see if they eventually take the "Rodimus Prime" route if the TF movie does well...

I think Rodimus' character had a lot of potential. But I just don't think his character was particularly well-written in Season 3. One problem that was almost unavoidable was that the writers were still using the "magic reset button" formula in which any episode could come before or after any other episode. The problem for Rodimus is that any character development you see in a given episode gets magically wiped out at the end, and you're back to him doubting himself again at the beginning of the next episode. The overall effect created is that Rodimus is indecisive and overly whiny.

 

Also, I think there was some inconsistency in determining what kind of character Rodimus was. Sometimes he seemed to be written as a somewhat cavalier smartass; other times he was very introspective and even moody. Also, there were entire episodes where Rodimus was completely absent. How many pre-TF:TM episodes were there where Optimus Prime didn't show his face *once*? The only one I can think of is "A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court." Ultra Magnus seemed to be the de facto leader in some episodes (e.g. "Webworld"), which added to the sense of not really feeling like the Autobots had a real leader.

 

All that aside, ultimately the show was for kids. And while we can sit here and discuss Rodimus' frailty and insecurity, those aren't the kind of things that kids are really looking for. Optimus Prime was a father figure, and that's the reason why he was so enormously popular. As a guy who loves Beast Machines, I have to admit that that show wasn't really targeted for kids the way it should have been. It was way too heady for a young audience. Similarly, I think that Rodimus Prime and his "issues", while making him a more interesting character than Optimus Prime, don't necessarily belong in a kids' show.

 

I *am* interested, however, to see if they eventually take the "Rodimus Prime" route if the TF movie does well...

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I agree 100%...

 

I would NOT count on the movie becoming some grand trilogy or even being able to touch the post-movie stuff. I also don't see them being able to rock the new world of the Transformers movie continuity with the death or replacement of Optimus. IF IF IF we are given a sequel, at most I'd expect one of three things:

 

1. -- Devastator or Menasor as the main premise for the sequel's major villain, whether controlled by Starscream, Megatron, or whoever.

2. -- Shockwave coming to earth looking for the Decepticons and eventually usurping Megatron, spliting the ranks of the Decepticons. Bringing even more war to earth, causign the Autobots to try and save the day while having to fight a multiple-front war.

3. -- Humans decide to stop the Cybertronians one way or another. They begin bringing the war to both Factions. Becomes Humanity vs. Transformers completely and utterly.

THREADJACK

 

Yeah it makes you wonder... there really was no story arc to G1, unless you go by the comic. What would they do for sequels? Clearly not more of the same, if they expect it to succeed. But it does seem to me that Hollywood has gotten smarter about sequels these days. Three films is a good number for any series IMO. And there's been enough precedent with the Matrix, Star Wars, and LotR movies to set expectations in a "trilogy" direction.

 

All that to say, you wonder if they would replace Optimus Prime at some point. Sure, we all know that that was the BIG DOWNFALL of G1, but I think it's different when you're talking about movies vs. a cheap TV show (especially when the movies are 20 years after the fact). I know that there are a lot of Hot Rod/imus Prime fans out there who would love to see him finally depicted the way he should have been.

 

But how would you do that without doing a retread of TF:TM? And if you changed it, would it still feel the same? Probably not...

THREADJACK

 

Yeah it makes you wonder... there really was no story arc to G1, unless you go by the comic. What would they do for sequels? Clearly not more of the same, if they expect it to succeed. But it does seem to me that Hollywood has gotten smarter about sequels these days. Three films is a good number for any series IMO. And there's been enough precedent with the Matrix, Star Wars, and LotR movies to set expectations in a "trilogy" direction.

 

All that to say, you wonder if they would replace Optimus Prime at some point. Sure, we all know that that was the BIG DOWNFALL of G1, but I think it's different when you're talking about movies vs. a cheap TV show (especially when the movies are 20 years after the fact). I know that there are a lot of Hot Rod/imus Prime fans out there who would love to see him finally depicted the way he should have been.

 

But how would you do that without doing a retread of TF:TM? And if you changed it, would it still feel the same? Probably not...

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Making new thread about it Madhammer...so this one can continue on without too much disruption.