Are scalpers real?

[Glue]

Not that I've ever been to a botcon, but my impression was that people selling those were still getting market price for the things and were still providing more service and distribution than actual scalpers. Your reasoning fails. Scalping isn't distribution -- it's hoarding so the scalper can skim dollars off the top. That is far from the same as making a buck by offering something of value however minimal.

 

So providing a service means charging an extra 300$? Whos really benefiting? Arent' scalpers getting market price also? If everybody didn't try to buy as many sets as they could the extras woulda ended up in the club store where everyone can buy them at cost.

Scalpers aren't getting a natural market price when they manipulate the supply. And this is entirely reflected by the fact that they try to buy out supply from end-retailers: skimming. As said, if they wanted to argue they are distributing, they'd become licensed resellers, find themselves a supplier, and compete with Wal-Mart, Target, TRU, BBTS, and the other online vendors.

 

And it's unlikely you'd see any Botcon set being sold from the club store at cost, unless there was just no demand for it anyway.

 

Your telling me the intention of those purchasing extra botcon sets is solely to provide service to their fellow tf fans? Its the same intent as scalping, buying an extra set of rare toys solely to auction off and make a few $$.

*shrug* The Botcon sets were probably scalped too, but I dunno how bad that actually was given the short supply and high demand for those characters. So it didn't matter.

 

People whine about having to spend a few extra dollars b/c of scalpers, but will do something similar and try to reason that they're providing "more of a service". Sorry but its your reasoning that fails.

..... no.. Lemme explain briefly how logic works: in order to catch someone in a contradiction, they actually have to be guilty of such hypocrisy. I'm not aware of anyone here who criticizes scalping yet does it themselves (I'm sure there are such people, possibly even here, but I've no idea who they would be). Since most such critics on this board and thread bemoan their failure at finding many particular items, I rather doubt they are in the scalping biz.

 

And re-examine your own reasoning. Your argument is that because some are willing to pay an extra $300+ on one set of highly limited toys, it's okay to rip everyone else off for a couple of dollars on cheap wide release ones. Besides, nobody who's willing to pay the extra +$300 for a set of 5 repaints/retools of $10 toys is expecting to get value.

[That_Guy_that_used_to_post]

Scalpers. They are, apparently, the scourge of our hobby, swooping on stores, often in packs, as soon as new deliveries are made, buying as much as possible and laughing all the way to their fat, greasy Paypal accounts after selling the stuff on EBay.

 

But do they really exist? I mean, on what basis does anybody think that a guy buying toys in a toy store is anything other than another collector? Is there really that great a speculator market out there, even an immediate one?

 

I'm more inclined to think that people don't neccessarily know everyone in their area who might have other reasons for buying toys, than that there really are these hoardes of scalpers running about.

 

 

I'm a fair market scalper sometimes. I'll maybe buy one extra of something and then list it on ebay. However I always start my items at 99 cents and you know, I let buyers jack the price up all by themselves. If somone wants to pay 40% over retail I didn't twist their arm.

 

I have also neglected buying something for myself, especially around christmas time to make sure kids get a fair shot at the good stuff.

[siburke939]

I've rarely paid inflated or above-market prices for anything, and not on toys. If anything, my bigger fault is probably not being willing to pay enough at times. I'm just eyerolling at what I keep finding to be nonsensical justifications.

Threads like this are asking people (ie: scalpers) to justify something that, in all fairness, they don't have to. They're the ones who have to sleep at night though. ;)

Heh. I thought the thread started with a scalper or defender who denied the existence of scalping. :)

Point being? :tfhuh

[I.S.T.]

I've rarely paid inflated or above-market prices for anything, and not on toys. If anything, my bigger fault is probably not being willing to pay enough at times. I'm just eyerolling at what I keep finding to be nonsensical justifications.

Threads like this are asking people (ie: scalpers) to justify something that, in all fairness, they don't have to. They're the ones who have to sleep at night though. ;)

Heh. I thought the thread started with a scalper or defender who denied the existence of scalping. :)

Point being? :tfhuh

 

I think he was just making an anecdote. >.>

 

As for my views on the subject... I don't believe scalping is moral, nor do I believe it should be allowed at all. My reasons are:

 

A. It hurts the TF fan because of much higher prices. I'm sure each member of this board who actively buys TFs/looked at buying them online has been hit by this.

 

B. It hurts the number one target audience of TFs: Kids. Many scalpers will buy up entire toy racks, denying them to kids. This is the part that angers me most. I will not buy a TF if it was the last one/last particular one unless it was a collector's TF for this reason. I prefer the idea of buying them online because of this...

 

C. It overinflates the value of the toys, especially in the case of TFs that start out rare but get more packed in later waves.

 

D. It really hurts international members of the board because of the huge numbers of Japanese and U.S. TFs that do not get released in Europe, Australia, etc. While scalpers do provide access to these TFs for these members, it's at a cost that is, frankly, too much.

 

In the end, it's just hurtful, with only a few benefits. There is nothing to defend of the entire practice other than those few benefits.

 

As for the violent talk... bear in mind that is in most cases blowing off steam, simply because of how many times people are screwed by scalpers and the type of behavior that many practice(Though not necessarily scalping, per se at times. See the insanely overpriced G1 Optimus Primes...), and that scalping encourages.

[siburke939]

Okay. What was the point of the "anecdote" then?

 

So for anti-scalpers it's "blowing off steam" but for pro-scalpers it's a serious threat? Hypocrisy, anyone? :igrot

[I.S.T.]

Okay. What was the point of the "anecdote" then?

 

So for anti-scalpers it's "blowing off steam" but for pro-scalpers it's a serious threat? Hypocrisy, anyone? :igrot

 

I didn't say they were right in threatening/wishing violence on scalpers... In the end, they're not that bad of a influence/threat/whatever you wish to call it to the TF(or for that matter any community that they affect) fandom as to deserve mass violence. The violence should be saved for people far worse...

 

I was just guessing about the anecdote thing, FWIW... >.>

 

Curious, what do you think about the rest of my post?

[rock_lee]

Not that I've ever been to a botcon, but my impression was that people selling those were still getting market price for the things and were still providing more service and distribution than actual scalpers. Your reasoning fails. Scalping isn't distribution -- it's hoarding so the scalper can skim dollars off the top. That is far from the same as making a buck by offering something of value however minimal.

 

So providing a service means charging an extra 300$? Whos really benefiting? Arent' scalpers getting market price also? If everybody didn't try to buy as many sets as they could the extras woulda ended up in the club store where everyone can buy them at cost.

Scalpers aren't getting a natural market price when they manipulate the supply. And this is entirely reflected by the fact that they try to buy out supply from end-retailers: skimming. As said, if they wanted to argue they are distributing, they'd become licensed resellers, find themselves a supplier, and compete with Wal-Mart, Target, TRU, BBTS, and the other online vendors.

 

And it's unlikely you'd see any Botcon set being sold from the club store at cost, unless there was just no demand for it anyway.

 

Your telling me the intention of those purchasing extra botcon sets is solely to provide service to their fellow tf fans? Its the same intent as scalping, buying an extra set of rare toys solely to auction off and make a few $$.

*shrug* The Botcon sets were probably scalped too, but I dunno how bad that actually was given the short supply and high demand for those characters. So it didn't matter.

 

People whine about having to spend a few extra dollars b/c of scalpers, but will do something similar and try to reason that they're providing "more of a service". Sorry but its your reasoning that fails.

..... no.. Lemme explain briefly how logic works: in order to catch someone in a contradiction, they actually have to be guilty of such hypocrisy. I'm not aware of anyone here who criticizes scalping yet does it themselves (I'm sure there are such people, possibly even here, but I've no idea who they would be). Since most such critics on this board and thread bemoan their failure at finding many particular items, I rather doubt they are in the scalping biz.

 

And re-examine your own reasoning. Your argument is that because some are willing to pay an extra $300+ on one set of highly limited toys, it's okay to rip everyone else off for a couple of dollars on cheap wide release ones. Besides, nobody who's willing to pay the extra +$300 for a set of 5 repaints/retools of $10 toys is expecting to get value.

 

Both botcon 05 and 06 figures are still readily available after botcon. Of course 07 botcon figures are more desired, and i'm not saying everyone can get a set, but more people coulda gotten them at retail price. I saw everyone from mods selling them at double price, with the justification that it helps them cover cost. Sounds exactly like Metrobobs intent to me.

 

I'm not sure what scalping means to you. But imo its buying more than you need and selling the extras solely with the purpose of making a profit, i.e. having a boxed botcon set and buying an additional loose ones solely with the purpose to sell and cover costs. It doesn't matter if the item is an expensive exclusive or a 10$ deluxe. So your sayings its ok to scalp expensive rare items, but throw a fit when 10$ deluxes that are more readily available are scalped? I dont understand how you pick and choose.

 

I don't have a problem with so called "scalpers" but i dont' try to criticize and act all holier than thou, and pretend like they really hurt the hobby. Your kidding yourself if you think that scalpers are trying to "buy out supply from end-retailers". What ends up on ebay due to "scalping" Does not even equal to 1% of the total supply of the toy. I doubt scalpers can do enough to significantly affect in anyway the actual supply of the toy. Its not like people scalp for a living to pay their bills. I doubt you can even make more than minimum wage from scalping. A person who scalps might pick up 2-3 rare tfs that they see on shelves, resell them on ebay, then realize its not worth the time and effort.

 

I live in LA, i haven't seen half the Alt line at stores, but i haven't seen anyone from my area ever scalping them either.

[siburke939]

I didn't say they were right in threatening/wishing violence on scalpers... In the end, they're not that bad of a influence/threat/whatever you wish to call it to the TF(or for that matter any community that they affect) fandom as to deserve mass violence. The violence should be saved for people far worse...

 

I was just guessing about the anecdote thing, FWIW... >.>

 

Curious, what do you think about the rest of my post?

I know it's not a serious threat. Laughable to be honest. I was just peeved that I had my retaliation to one of the many threats thrown at "scalpers" deleted. The main reason I bit & started speaking my mind was due to the fact that some people were calling anyone buying multiple toys scalpers... HELLO!!! One plank saying "if they buy more than one they're a dirty scalper" (I buy stuff & sell it AT COST whenever I can help out someone here), then other planks saying "just kick them in the nuts" or "I'M GONNA KILL SCALPERS AAAAAA" & other comments along them lines. Just a quick note for any potential have-a-go-scalper-hunters: Don't be a plank.

 

Anyways...

 

As for my views on the subject... I don't believe scalping is moral, nor do I believe it should be allowed at all. My reasons are:

 

A. It hurts the TF fan because of much higher prices. I'm sure each member of this board who actively buys TFs/looked at buying them online has been hit by this.

 

B. It hurts the number one target audience of TFs: Kids. Many scalpers will buy up entire toy racks, denying them to kids. This is the part that angers me most. I will not buy a TF if it was the last one/last particular one unless it was a collector's TF for this reason. I prefer the idea of buying them online because of this...

 

C. It overinflates the value of the toys, especially in the case of TFs that start out rare but get more packed in later waves.

 

D. It really hurts international members of the board because of the huge numbers of Japanese and U.S. TFs that do not get released in Europe, Australia, etc. While scalpers do provide access to these TFs for these members, it's at a cost that is, frankly, too much.

 

In the end, it's just hurtful, with only a few benefits. There is nothing to defend of the entire practice other than those few benefits.

Well, I agree that scalping is (in some ways) slightly immoral. Not allowing it though... Is that really a road we want to go down? There's more than one way to skin a cat.

 

A: Someone must be paying these higher prices. The people with more money could, but don't really have to, show some self-control (& have some self-respect), but THEY are to blame. The ones with less "spare/disposable/TF" money, me included, have crapped out. I don't like it either, but I believe that's my tough luck for not having as much money as the people who are paying them prices.

 

B: Most kids are fickle little brats anyway. I never lost sleep over it as a kid. I didn't have to see a shrink for the toys I never got as a kid. Did anyone here?

 

C: Again, the buyer commands the prices. Nobody NEEDS a TF for anything, they WANT them. Also, the best things come to those who wait... sometimes! See "A" for my opinions on this again.

 

D: I disagree strongly with this. I've been helped out a couple of times by members here & by eBay sellers (outside of eBay) and again: I don't NEED to buy toys, I merely WANT them. Ultimately it all depends on who wants it (ie: is willing to spend) more.

 

What was that? Life sucks? Deal. :P

[Lord Madhammer]

I think we've answered the question that started off this thread. So unless anyone has any serious objections...

 

:lock