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The Bond Gadget Test


Hobbes-timus Prime

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I, for one, am not saying it's stupid.

 

 

I'm saying it's meaningless. We've already got small Transformers to do spying jobs. Even if Soundwave launches minions from his chest, guess what? They are still going to be the ones to do all the spying jobs, as we've shown Transformers don't need to shrink to do spying.

 

The only reason you've given so far is that Soundwave, and Soundwave alone has to shrink to do his job. Nevermind that there are vehicles loaded with electronics equipment for communications so advanced that a discman or laptop next to it is laughable. To you, Soundwave can't be Soundwave unless you can pick him up with one hand. He can't be Soundwave unless he can fit on Megatron's countertop. He can't be who he is unless turns into something tiny and related to playing music, even though that has absolutely nothing to do with communications.

 

 

And I'm saying THAT is stupid.

No, it isn't meaningless. IF you intend to use the character, and do him right, it is not meaningless because no other type of alternate mode really fits someone named Soundwave. Think about it. What type of device pops into your head when you think of sound? For me it's a stereo. It isn't a car. It isn't a truck, it isn't a helocopter. It is something specifically designed for producing sounds. That is where Soundwave got his name. Why change that? If you don't want to use that alternate mode, don't use the character or that name.

Do I think of helicopters when I hear "Blackout"? No, I think of broken lightbulbs.

Do I think of sports cars when I think of "Jazz"? No, I think of CDs.

Do I think of cars when I hear "Bumblebee"? No, I think of fuzzy insects that make honey.

Do I think of amublances when I hear "Ratchet"? No, I think of Home Depot.

Do I think of tanks when I hear "Brawl"? No, I think of fist fights in the street.

 

Name. Does not. Mean. Alt Mode.

 

There's a lot that can be done with sound. Look at Thundercracker! His special ability is making sonic booms! He does more with sound than Soundwave does!

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Tramp there are as yet undiscoverd native tribes in the south american rainforest who know that you lost the "you have to magic shrinky to NAME a character soundwave" argument like 3 pages ago.

 

As I recall what we are supposes to be discussing here is wether it makes sense to include the G1 magic shrinky ability in the live action motion pictures.

 

I beleive the answer is no. And if you are right and the world of Tf would collapse if soundwave apeared with out the abillity to do that, than he simply should not be included the live action continuity.

 

Maybe what we need to do is seperate the soundwave issue and have a thread for "Can soundwave be anything but a small communications device?"

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I, for one, am not saying it's stupid.

 

 

I'm saying it's meaningless. We've already got small Transformers to do spying jobs. Even if Soundwave launches minions from his chest, guess what? They are still going to be the ones to do all the spying jobs, as we've shown Transformers don't need to shrink to do spying.

 

The only reason you've given so far is that Soundwave, and Soundwave alone has to shrink to do his job. Nevermind that there are vehicles loaded with electronics equipment for communications so advanced that a discman or laptop next to it is laughable. To you, Soundwave can't be Soundwave unless you can pick him up with one hand. He can't be Soundwave unless he can fit on Megatron's countertop. He can't be who he is unless turns into something tiny and related to playing music, even though that has absolutely nothing to do with communications.

 

 

And I'm saying THAT is stupid.

No, it isn't meaningless. IF you intend to use the character, and do him right, it is not meaningless because no other type of alternate mode really fits someone named Soundwave. Think about it. What type of device pops into your head when you think of sound? For me it's a stereo. It isn't a car. It isn't a truck, it isn't a helocopter. It is something specifically designed for producing sounds. That is where Soundwave got his name. Why change that? If you don't want to use that alternate mode, don't use the character or that name.

I hope you realize he can still be called Soundwave by having communications equipment within his body that DO allow him to produce sound waves. Also he can have a sonic-based attack (as Soundwave always had), block/jam radio transmissions, and still use his Communications System to be Soundwave.

 

Tramp there are as yet undiscoverd native tribes in the south american rainforest who know that you lost the "you have to magic shrinky to NAME a character soundwave" argument like 3 pages ago.

 

As I recall what we are supposes to be discussing here is wether it makes sense to include the G1 magic shrinky ability in the live action motion pictures.

 

I beleive the answer is no. And if you are right and the world of Tf would collapse if soundwave apeared with out the abillity to do that, than he simply should not be included the live action continuity.

 

Maybe what we need to do is seperate the soundwave issue and have a thread for "Can soundwave be anything but a small communications device?"

It's far too late for that - since Soundwave was made the POSTER BOT for this discussion - until those parties involved back out or give in or just leave - this discussion is totally abotu Soundwave + Mass-Shifting.

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Most transformers have only a rudimentary comlink. They aren't designed specifically with communications ans surveylance in mind. Soundwave is. His alternate mode is. The others are not. Secondly, why would he transmit them to Megatron's ciomlink when he is standing next to him?

If Soundwave has this advanced communications system throughout his body with monitors, recording devices, speakers, and all that - then he can transmit/recieve info and messages wherever he is. And if he has said advanced communications system and is standing next to Megatron - then guess what? He just plays the damn message so Megatron can hear it. Why would that need to be explained to you Tramp? Also - if it's a visual recording, Soundwave could do multiple things - plug into a monitor (ala TFTM) or use a built in projector to project the images for others to see. It's not that hard. He would have all the equipment he needs within his own body. He doesn't have to be a small portable electronic device to do all that. Using all of his energy for actually being independent and having the right equipment makes more sense than using it to Mass-Shift into something like a Stereo.

 

Fanboy goggles have nothing to do with it. Understanding the character and what makes him who and what he is, does.
You say I don't understand the character - YET, I've (as well as others) have given you ways that would keep him the top Decepticon Communications Expert and still have him as a mobile alt. mode without mass-shifting. I've also never down-played any character point to Soundwave as a character - loyalty, silent, cool voice, and his loyal followers. I even came up with a way for him to still be the Communications Officer and use his minions for spying/recording like G1 did. Just without Mass-Shifting.

And once again, what is so wrong with Mass conversion? It all comes down to that. You want to take away the one alternate mode that makes the most sense, and is what gave the character his name in the first place simpy to get rid of a gimick that you don't like for no good reason. saying it's "stupid" is not a reason.

Okay - you want my reasons -- here you go:

 

1.) Frenzy proves that a 4 foot tall spy as a stereo works effectively, without any form of Mass-Shifting (parts compression is just transforming - not true mass-shifting, because every TF has at least a form of parts compression to some minor degree) in the Movie Universe. He's sneaky, stealthy, spies, and gets his info back to the Decepticons. He is effective.

 

2.) Using the tremendous energy it takes to Mass-Shift can be put to better use by having Soundwave have all the needed components built within himself to do his function without having to resort to expending large amounts of energy through Mass-Shifting.

 

3.) We've established that really Soundwave's minions do most of the actual spying - therefore there is no good reason for him to be a Mass-Shifting Stereo when Frenzy (or Laserbeak or Ravage) can sneak in and do the spying job and then later rejoin his master at a later date and time with his information. So there is no need for Soundwave to shrink down to hide, when he could just be a van sitting in a parking lot with Frenzy in stereo mode in the seat - communicating with each other.

 

4.)Or he could be in said same parking lot coordinating Laserbeak's spying manuevers as he waits. Since he can have an alien super-communica system built within his car/van frame. It works extremely well if he's a news van or even just a van with a very large CB-Style disguised super-antennae and a bunch of extra communications/recording set ups in his rear open area.

 

 

 

There you go - 4 reasons. All can be backed up with reasoning. And just to let you know I HAVE NO PROBLEMS with Mass-Shifting in a cartoon or in G1 or anything. I have issues with it for the Movie Universe in that they've already said NO to it for what Soundwave would/should/could use it for. Also - why waste time explaining how this one character defies logic and set perimeters used in the first movie, when that same time could be devoted to showing how effective he is because he has specialized body equipment within himself to get his job done - Plus be mobile on his own, not having to rely on others (except his minions, which he relies on anyways). None of this has to break Soundwave's true character at all either.

OK, then why use Soundwave at all when any of the other characters, or a new character with a different name could fill that role? And also, do you really think a news van or one filled with a bunch of communications equipment and antennae won't draw a bunch of unwanted attention? Even if his minions are the ones doing the actual work? Secondly, Who is to say that Mass conversion needs to use up huge amounts of energy? Sure, scientifically is should, but who is to say it actually does? If it doesn't—which according to TF lore, it doesn't require any more energy than normal transforming—why not use it? The only reason why they didn't put it into the first movie was because there were already too many other fantastic elements to deal with first, not for the reasons you stated. Thirdly, Sure Frenzy is good as a spy and a minion, but not as a good Leiutenant. Otherwise they would have kept him as Soundwave. He is a bit player, not a major character, and from what I have heard, doesn't only turn into a stereo, but can assume other shapes as well. Soundwave is major-league with only one form. Why do you think they decided to move him to the second movie to begin with instead of keeping Frenzy as Soundwave? It was because they wanted to save Mass conversion for later so that they could do Soundwave right.

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Stop bringing up "TF Lore". It's logic for a cartoon. It has shakey issues already applying to a movie.

 

Also, a van full of communication equipment doesn't stick out because all those things are inside the van. Doors closed, windowless, who will see it? How do you think police use vans like that? Did you just think they had speakers, computer monitors, recorders, and godknowswhatelse all glued to the outside of the van, with a big neon sign pointing at it saying THIS IS THE SPY VAN! PARTY HARD!, or something?

 

All Soundwave needs to do is act as a "hub". And really, him being a sizable van with room for the minions makes more sense than a lap top that holds one (or more) robot/s that turn into stereos. If only your Soundwave can use magic shrinky, what happens to his minions? Do they explode out of his chest and kill him because he grows too tiny around their refusing to shrink forms?

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Do I think of helicopters when I hear "Blackout"? No, I think of broken lightbulbs.

Do I think of sports cars when I think of "Jazz"? No, I think of CDs.

Do I think of cars when I hear "Bumblebee"? No, I think of fuzzy insects that make honey.

Do I think of amublances when I hear "Ratchet"? No, I think of Home Depot.

Do I think of tanks when I hear "Brawl"? No, I think of fist fights in the street.

 

Name. Does not. Mean. Alt Mode.

 

There's a lot that can be done with sound. Look at Thundercracker! His special ability is making sonic booms! He does more with sound than Soundwave does!

Names do not always mean alt mode, but the alt mode is very often the source of the name. Bumblebee got his name because he was a cute little yellow and black VW bug, remeniscent of a bumblebee. Ratchet got his name because he was the medic. The creators of Transformers came up with that because of his alternate mode, an ambulance. Blackout gets his name fron one of his primary functions, Electronic warfare. He causes blackouts. Blackouts are power outages, Communications blackouts are losses of communications. Brawl is a fighter, a grunt. What better alt mode for a grunt than a tank? Jazz is the cosmopolatine who fits in anywhere, what better alternate mode than a sleek, sexy, "jazzy" sports car? The alt mode fits the name and the name fits the alt mode. Thundercracker is a supoersonic jet. Sonic booms sound like thunder cracking, hence the name "Thundercracker"

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Stop bringing up "TF Lore". It's logic for a cartoon. It has shakey issues already applying to a movie.

 

Also, a van full of communication equipment doesn't stick out because all those things are inside the van. Doors closed, windowless, who will see it? How do you think police use vans like that? Did you just think they had speakers, computer monitors, recorders, and godknowswhatelse all glued to the outside of the van, with a big neon sign pointing at it saying THIS IS THE SPY VAN! PARTY HARD!, or something?

 

All Soundwave needs to do is act as a "hub". And really, him being a sizable van with room for the minions makes more sense than a lap top that holds one (or more) robot/s that turn into stereos. If only your Soundwave can use magic shrinky, what happens to his minions? Do they explode out of his chest and kill him because he grows too tiny around their refusing to shrink forms?

Those police vans you refer to aren't as subtle as you think, especially if they are the stereotypical plain black windowless van and especially with huge antennae. Oh, no, that won't draw attention. Police use vans disguised to look like delivery trucks or utiliy service trucks. And even then that doesn't necessarily work since that can also draw attention to him unless there were workers outside "working". They aren't very ubiquitous. Not a good disguise. And doesn't really fit Soundwave.

 

Also, TF lore is not the cartoon. It is the entirety of TF lore including the cartoons, comics, toys, books, and movies. The movie draws its story from existing Transformers lore. It doen't exist in a bubble. While the look of the original G1 designs wouldn't work in live action, That doesn't mean that some of their special abilities couldn't if saved for a sequel. Also, currently only Frenzy is too big to "fit in his chest" so to speak, He could still plug into Soundwave using an interface cable. Laserbeak (AKA Booster X-10) is significantly smaller in both modes.

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OK, then why use Soundwave at all when any of the other characters, or a new character with a different name could fill that role? And also, do you really think a news van or one filled with a bunch of communications equipment and antennae won't draw a bunch of unwanted attention? Even if his minions are the ones doing the actual work? Secondly, Who is to say that Mass conversion needs to use up huge amounts of energy? Sure, scientifically is should, but who is to say it actually does? If it doesn't—which according to TF lore, it doesn't require any more energy than normal transforming—why not use it? The only reason why they didn't put it into the first movie was because there were already too many other fantastic elements to deal with first, not for the reasons you stated. Thirdly, Sure Frenzy is good as a spy and a minion, but not as a good Leiutenant. Otherwise they would have kept him as Soundwave. He is a bit player, not a major character, and from what I have heard, doesn't only turn into a stereo, but can assume other shapes as well. Soundwave is major-league with only one form. Why do you think they decided to move him to the second movie to begin with instead of keeping Frenzy as Soundwave? It was because they wanted to save Mass conversion for later so that they could do Soundwave right.

First - I NEVER ONCE said you couldn't use whoever you choose to. But this whole discussion has been about Soundwave - hence I kept using Soundwave, since he is the G1 Mass-Shifter that matters most.

 

Second - A van, that is closed up, windowless (like Blot said) and is just a van sitting in a parking lot, is NOT something a regular joe walking through the lot will look at and inspect to see if its as real as the two-door sedan parked 5 spaces down from him.

 

Third - I'm sure you are aware that they could have expanded the then called Soundwave's character a lot more, kept him in the story, and devoted him more screentime to explain his abilties, as well as set him up for a good bit more in a future Sequel. They did not. They changed him to Frenzy. NOW FORGET the reasons behind Soundwave's name change to Frenzy. Think in storytelling only - Frenzy negates parts of what Soundwave would/should/could do now. Because Frenzy IS official canon in the story of the Movie Universe. Frenzy matters as he made it into the story - minion or not. He negates part of why Soundwave would Mass-Shift into a stereo from being a 25+ ft. tall robot.

 

Fourth - Mass-Shifting basically, you say, doesn't take up any major energy - okay - sure let's buy into that. Now here again why would there be a STORY, repeat STORY, reason to negate Frenzy and make a Mass-Shifting Soundwave in the next movie when Frenzy's small size is already going to be used to good effect?

 

Fifth - I don't know where you heard Frenzy is supposed to have multiple forms, but it wasn't in the Old Script, nor in any interview I've heard of/read. Please provide a link and or article. Thanks in advance.

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I hope you realize he can still be called Soundwave by having communications equipment within his body that DO allow him to produce sound waves. Also he can have a sonic-based attack (as Soundwave always had), block/jam radio transmissions, and still use his Communications System to be Soundwave.

 

Then why call him Soundwave, since his alternate mode was what he derived his name and function from in the first place? It wasn't like "hey, we need a communications guyy for the bad guys and his name is Soundwave, we need an alternate mode for him." It was, "Hey, we have a robot who turns into a tape player. That would make a good Communications guy for the bad guys, Let's call him Soundwave." You cannot really separate Soundwave from his alternate mode, or the modern equivalent. at least not without him no longer being "Soundwave". The name wouldn't fit. They really are that interrelated.

 

Tramp there are as yet undiscoverd native tribes in the south american rainforest who know that you lost the "you have to magic shrinky to NAME a character soundwave" argument like 3 pages ago.

 

As I recall what we are supposes to be discussing here is wether it makes sense to include the G1 magic shrinky ability in the live action motion pictures.

 

I beleive the answer is no. And if you are right and the world of Tf would collapse if soundwave apeared with out the abillity to do that, than he simply should not be included the live action continuity.

 

Maybe what we need to do is seperate the soundwave issue and have a thread for "Can soundwave be anything but a small communications device?"

It's far too late for that - since Soundwave was made the POSTER BOT for this discussion - until those parties involved back out or give in or just leave - this discussion is totally abotu Soundwave + Mass-Shifting.

 

Yeah, Mass conversion and Soundwave are pretty intricately woven together. PC, Why do you hate Mass conversion so much? If it works for a given character and allows him to take on the modern version of the alternate mode from which his name and function are derived, why not use it? and "Because it is stupid" is not a reason.

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Hey, why call Bumblebee that still? He's not a volkswagon anymore, the name joke is lost!

Why call Bonecrusher that? He's no BULLDOZER!

And I've got shocking news for you, Tramp. G1 Blackout didn't have anything to do with electronic warfare, EMPs, OR helicopters.

 

Guess what? Things change. In many cases, for the better!

 

Why are you so dead set in making sure Soundwave never leaves 1984? He finally has the chance to be something useful, and you hate it.

 

Movie Swindle isn't a jeep! He's not even yellow! I don't see you crying a river over that!

 

 

But hey. I'm not against Soundwave turning into a van, a stealth fighter plane, a VCR, a woodchuck...the problem is, you direly want him to use magic shrinky powers.

 

The problem is, your argument has a huge roadblock it has to come over: Frenzy. Frenzy's very existance shows there's no need for a 30 foot robot to turn into something so small. Why does the Decepticon army need two stereos? Why does Soundwave turning into a tiny stereo sized object help -nay, prove vital to the story?

 

Because it lets him do his job?

 

Bull. Blot. Everything Soundwave does is internal. He did not spring to life from the cosmic womb of some home electronic diety. In the way the movie shows, if anything, he wouldn't turn into a communications anything on Cybertron. He'd be a big space ball like Bumblebee, or Prime, or Starscream. All of his communication skills, abilities, technology, etc, would already be inside his body and being used.

 

In the movie world, the robot came first. The sound came second. The ability to transform into something relating to that sound is a far, far, FAR distant third.

 

 

So do give a good answer as to why it would let him do his job, even though all his communication power is accessible in robot mode. Tell us why he would need to use magic shrinky powers to get his job done.

 

And no, "Because it's Soundwave" is the wrong and worst answer you can give.

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