The Bond Gadget Test

[Terrorcon Blot]

The thing is though, if you lose Mass conversion completely, you lose Soundwave completely. You cannot use Soundwave at all. It is that impoortant to hiis character.

Or you know..Soundwave could turn into something else.

 

 

Does Grimlock stop being Grimlock the second he isn't a T-Rex?

[PlumperHumper]

Well if sticking to G1 equals having both Blaster & Soundwave in the back of Ironhide, playing music without Ironhide or Blaster noticing Soundwave was there like in the one Season Two Episode - then screw the G1 stuff. We've got enough of it.

 

Also, I've been thinking - if loosing Mass-Shifting is like our major G1 Loss to the Movie Universe - we've got it pretty good. I mean we still get Autobots vs. Decepticons, the Faction Symbols, A War Between Giant Transforming Robots, Optimus Prime (in G1 colors I might add), Megatron, Starscream, Ironhide, Jazz, & Bumblebee. That's a lot we were given!

The thing is though, if you lose Mass conversion completely, you lose Soundwave completely. You cannot use Soundwave at all. It is that impoortant to hiis character.

Um - Wait - No it doesn't - We've all offered up ways to KEEP Soundwave a spy, a communications expert, a giant robot, and a top-ranking Decepticon multiple times over WITHOUT Mass-Shifting. I even posted about how all the TFs have Communications Equipment (some all over their bodies) and how Soundwave could have even a more advanced system all throughout his body - which you chose to ignore and skip, Tramp.

 

Mass-Shifting DOES NOT Make Soundwave to me and most others here in this thread (yeah I know I'm speaking out for others - but that's my general thoughts) - Soundwave is a big robot who had a cool voice, an group of loyal followers, and was loyal to Megatron. THAT is Soundwave - a Tape Player did not make him his true Character.

[Mendou]

I can't do that becuase it is more complicated than that. Hence the reason why I gave the answer I did.

How is it more complicated? Would changing such a minor part of a cheap cartoon designed to sell toys twenty years ago cause you to change your mind about the detail were it used in the film?

Mass conversion wasn't a minor part of Soundwave. It was a major part of who he was as a character. Without it, he would not have been the same character we know. He woudl be very different. If he was this tiny, 2' tall pipsqueek of a robot, he would be a minion, an nobody, a tool, not a senior member of Megatron's inner circle. His Mass conversion capability was a defining feature of the character. it is what made him so versatile in robot mode, as well as capable of perfoming his primary function, and it was also made his alt mode believable.

 

Secondly, if it was such a "cheap" cartoon, why is it still popular today. The animation and story telling may be dated by todays standards, but it was state of the art and top quality back then. It wasn't a "cheap" commercial simply to sell toys. It was a damn good show for its era.

It was made by Marvel/Sunbow, the same production company which brought us G.I. Joe, and later the execrable X-Men cartoon of the '90s. They didn't exactly go out of their way to emulate Disney (though to their credit they weren't quite on Filmation's level of ineptitude). As I recall, Transformers the cartoon didn't look too inspiring in 1985 (I wasn't a regular viewer, but one episode I saw in that time period stopped my twelve-year-old suspension of disbelief cold). As for the cartoon's popularity, it's popular among thirtysomethings who watched it in their formative years; I don't know of any other demographic which adores it. It's the concept of the Transformers which has maintained their popularity rather than the quality of the animation. This is my opinion, and is also beside the point.

 

I wasn't saying size-changing was a minor part of the character; I was saying it was a minor part of the cartoon. If it hadn't been a part of the cartoon, would it even be a problem for you to accept them not including it in the movie?

[Tramp]

The thing is though, if you lose Mass conversion completely, you lose Soundwave completely. You cannot use Soundwave at all. It is that impoortant to hiis character.

Or you know..Soundwave could turn into something else.

 

 

Does Grimlock stop being Grimlock the second he isn't a T-Rex?

No, Blot, he couldn't. He wouldn't be Soundwave if he did. Cybertron Soundwvwe was not Soundwave. Not even close. In some cases, the Clothes do make the man. The choices for an alt mode fot Soundwave are extremely limited, and that is to small personal electronic devices. Hasbro felt mass conversion was important enough to demand that Soundwave have that feature. Don Murphy felt it was important enough that he decided to not have him in the first movie, hold him off until the second, and name the design who was going to be him "Frenzy".

[PlumperHumper]

The thing is though, if you lose Mass conversion completely, you lose Soundwave completely. You cannot use Soundwave at all. It is that impoortant to hiis character.

Or you know..Soundwave could turn into something else.

 

 

Does Grimlock stop being Grimlock the second he isn't a T-Rex?

No, Blot, he couldn't. He wouldn't be Soundwave if he did. Cybertron Soundwvwe was not Soundwave. Not even close. In some cases, the Clothes do make the man. The choices for an alt mode fot Soundwave are extremely limited, and that is to small personal electronic devices. Hasbro felt mass conversion was important enough to demand that Soundwave have that feature. Don Murphy felt it was important enough that he decided to not have him in the first movie, hold him off until the second, and name the design who was going to be him "Frenzy".

So you are saying that for Soundwave to be Soundwave he has to be like his G1 incarnation - he can't change - he is immune to new alt. modes and changes, right? You do realize how fanboy that seems right?

[siburke939]

Cybertron Soundwave was Soundwave end of story.

[Tramp]

It was made by Marvel/Sunbow, the same production company which brought us G.I. Joe, and later the execrable X-Men cartoon of the '90s. They didn't exactly go out of their way to emulate Disney (though to their credit they weren't quite on Filmation's level of ineptitude). As I recall, Transformers the cartoon didn't look too inspiring in 1985 (I wasn't a regular viewer, but one episode I saw in that time period stopped my twelve-year-old suspension of disbelief cold). As for the cartoon's popularity, it's popular among thirtysomethings who watched it in their formative years; I don't know of any other demographic which adores it. It's the concept of the Transformers which has maintained their popularity rather than the quality of the animation. This is my opinion, and is also beside the point.

 

I wasn't saying size-changing was a minor part of the character; I was saying it was a minor part of the cartoon. If it hadn't been a part of the cartoon, would it even be a problem for you to accept them not including it in the movie?

Well, I was almost 15 when the second season started, and the animation and story telling didn't kill my suspension of disbelief one bit. As for its popularity, I am also referring to the longevity of the transformers. The very reason why the Transformers is still so popular over twenty years after it was intorduced is because of the rich stories of the G1 era. Not just the cartoon, but comics as well. The vastness and depth of Transformers lore embodied in the G1 cartoons and comics. They weren't simply 30 minute commercials. they were good entertainment.

 

As for Mass shifting. It wasn't a minor part of the cartoon either because it was such a major part of so many major characters, including Soundwave, Megatron, Blaster, Perceptor... Mass conversion played a major role in the stories. it is a big deal, not a minor thing.

[Tramp]

So you are saying that for Soundwave to be Soundwave he has to be like his G1 incarnation - he can't change - he is immune to new alt. modes and changes, right? You do realize how fanboy that seems right?

Well, apparently Hasbro and Don Murphy felt the same way. Does he have to be 100% identical? No, He has to be close though. That means similar, related type of alternate mode, though not identical, Mass conversion capability, and his minions.

 

Cybertron Soundwave was Soundwave end of story.

Did Cyberton Soundwave act like G1 Soundwave? Did he serve the same function as G1 Soundwave? No on both counts. The only thing he had was a cosmetic similarity to the original. He was not Soundwave. How does a steath fighter correlate with the name Soundwave? How did his place int he stories and his function correlate with the name "Soundwave"? It didn't. He was not Soundwave. He only shared a name and a face, and that does not make him mthat character, just a cheap imitation.

[siburke939]

I was more interested in women & booze at 15 years old. Explains a lot I suppose...

[Mendou]

It was made by Marvel/Sunbow, the same production company which brought us G.I. Joe, and later the execrable X-Men cartoon of the '90s. They didn't exactly go out of their way to emulate Disney (though to their credit they weren't quite on Filmation's level of ineptitude). As I recall, Transformers the cartoon didn't look too inspiring in 1985 (I wasn't a regular viewer, but one episode I saw in that time period stopped my twelve-year-old suspension of disbelief cold). As for the cartoon's popularity, it's popular among thirtysomethings who watched it in their formative years; I don't know of any other demographic which adores it. It's the concept of the Transformers which has maintained their popularity rather than the quality of the animation. This is my opinion, and is also beside the point.

 

I wasn't saying size-changing was a minor part of the character; I was saying it was a minor part of the cartoon. If it hadn't been a part of the cartoon, would it even be a problem for you to accept them not including it in the movie?

Well, I was almost 15 when the second season started, and the animation and story telling didn't kill my suspension of disbelief one bit. As for its popularity, I am also referring to the longevity of the transformers. The very reason why the Transformers is still so popular over twenty years after it was intorduced is because of the rich stories of the G1 era. Not just the cartoon, but comics as well. The vastness and depth of Transformers lore embodied in the G1 cartoons and comics. They weren't simply 30 minute commercials. they were good entertainment.

 

As for Mass shifting. It wasn't a minor part of the cartoon either because it was such a major part of so many major characters, including Soundwave, Megatron, Blaster, Perceptor... Mass conversion played a major role in the stories. it is a big deal, not a minor thing.

I apologize for not realizing your suspension of disbelief was so large. And I apologize for implying that the G1 cartoons were 30-minute commercials--they were in fact 25-minute commercials with commercial breaks (as were a lot of the shows I watched in that period of time--G.I. Joe, He-Man, the final seasons of Superfriends) which could keep children entertained after school or on Saturday mornings. I won't argue about the effectiveness of the comics--I still have my copy of Transformers #1 somewhere, despite its being in tatters and with a loose cover, and I recall enjoying any number of scenes from the issues I collected.

 

And, given how major you feel size-changing was to the cartoon, was there a reason that none of the characters you mentioned tended to transform at all in the most dramatic scenes? Perhaps the makers of the cartoon found that size change too comical for whatever drama they could get away with in a children's time slot?

 

Also, correct me if I'm wrong about this, but weren't the Transformers an inert product for five or six years until Beast Wars came out? It seems that there's more than just G1 storylines which account for its longetivity......