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Classics Ultra Magnus


Massdestruction

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Actually, it makes perfect sense since Magnus' cab, which forms his robot mode, is the same size and shape as Prime,—they are both identical cab-over-engine semi trucks, which would obviously be the same size—and his trailer forms his armor. A semi trailer is very large, particularly a car carrier trailer (large enough to carry several Autobot cars), and thus, would make a large suit of powered armor. Since both Optimus (not Optronix, Prime's original pre-matrix form) and Magnus are identical in shape and size in both modes—without their trailers,—and their trailers are roughly the same size, when armored, Magnus would be larger than Prime because of the armor.

 

ALT mode size and robot mode size are essentually meaningless in the Transformers universe. Full size Decepticons can fit inside Astrotrain's train mode. Powerglide's plane mode is larger than Grapple's crane mode. As such, Magnus can be as large as Optimus in semi mode, but that does not mean they have to be the same size robots.

 

Prime and Magnus are brothers; in essense twins. In fact, Prime specifically calls Magnus "Brother" in issue #6. Believe it or not, when Optimus went from being Optronix to Optimus Prime, he didn't change all that much. He did get a little bigger, and had some cosmetic changes, but not much. Before Optronix became Optimus, Magnus would have been the larger of the two, even unarmored.

 

So basicly you are saying that Matrix upgrades mean squat and that Optimus and Magnus aren't twins because Magnus was originally bigger. And unfortunately you can't accurately measure Optronix size change when he became Optimus, because there is no real points of reference. When Hot Rod became Rodimus, we had a low eye level shot so we could see the change dramatically. The shot angles Dreamwave used didn't allow us to see how much bigger he really got.

 

If you go by cartoon continuity, it is believed that when Orion Pax was built into Optimus Prime, Dion was turned into Ultra Magnus, this too is why they would be identical even though Optimus carries the Matrix.

 

Though cartoon continuity never asserted that Magnus was a white Optimus with armor. He was a white semi with a car carrier trailer that was part of his robot mode, not just armor. When Magnus opens his chest to put in the Matrix, his external chest plate comes up first, then his windows open. If the cartoon Magnus had been a white Optimus with armor then he would have needed to have 1 more door open vertically just like Optimus' did. So cartoon Magnus was like RID Magnus and not just a white Optimus with arrmor.

 

You should also notice, that when Optimus has lost posession of the Matrix, he didn't lose any mass or size, nor revert back to being Optronix (or Orion Pax, depending on which continuity you follow) like Hotrod did when he went from Rodimus Prime back to Hotrod. Optimus remained Optimus, with or without the Matrix. Ultra Magnus, is identical to Optimus, not Optronix.

 

I feel there are several reasons Optimus didn't revert when he lost the matrix: 1, he had the Matrix for so long that it's residual energy was enough to sustain him. 2, he died while removing the matrix, meaning that there was no energy for the change back. 3, Rodimus had only had the Matrix for a very short time and the Matrix was less powerful (having used much of it's power to blow up Unicron) so that is why he reverted.

 

And all that just explains again why I will not be making Magnus armor. You are not going to convince me otherwise and there are way too many conflicting continuities for anyone to ever be able to prove themselves right.

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Actually, it makes perfect sense since Magnus' cab, which forms his robot mode, is the same size and shape as Prime,—they are both identical cab-over-engine semi trucks, which would obviously be the same size—and his trailer forms his armor. A semi trailer is very large, particularly a car carrier trailer (large enough to carry several Autobot cars), and thus, would make a large suit of powered armor. Since both Optimus (not Optronix, Prime's original pre-matrix form) and Magnus are identical in shape and size in both modes—without their trailers,—and their trailers are roughly the same size, when armored, Magnus would be larger than Prime because of the armor.

 

ALT mode size and robot mode size are essentually meaningless in the Transformers universe. Full size Decepticons can fit inside Astrotrain's train mode. Powerglide's plane mode is larger than Grapple's crane mode. As such, Magnus can be as large as Optimus in semi mode, but that does not mean they have to be the same size robots.

 

Actually, only certain TFs had any form of mass shifting or size shifting capabilites, and neither Magnus nor Prime were among them.

 

Prime and Magnus are brothers; in essense twins. In fact, Prime specifically calls Magnus "Brother" in issue #6. Believe it or not, when Optimus went from being Optronix to Optimus Prime, he didn't change all that much. He did get a little bigger, and had some cosmetic changes, but not much. Before Optronix became Optimus, Magnus would have been the larger of the two, even unarmored.

 

So basicly you are saying that Matrix upgrades mean squat and that Optimus and Magnus aren't twins because Magnus was originally bigger. And unfortunately you can't accurately measure Optronix size change when he became Optimus, because there is no real points of reference. When Hot Rod became Rodimus, we had a low eye level shot so we could see the change dramatically. The shot angles Dreamwave used didn't allow us to see how much bigger he really got.

 

No, I am saying that they don't mean as much as you think they do.

 

If you go by cartoon continuity, it is believed that when Orion Pax was built into Optimus Prime, Dion was turned into Ultra Magnus, this too is why they would be identical even though Optimus carries the Matrix.

 

Though cartoon continuity never asserted that Magnus was a white Optimus with armor. He was a white semi with a car carrier trailer that was part of his robot mode, not just armor. When Magnus opens his chest to put in the Matrix, his external chest plate comes up first, then his windows open. If the cartoon Magnus had been a white Optimus with armor then he would have needed to have 1 more door open vertically just like Optimus' did. So cartoon Magnus was like RID Magnus and not just a white Optimus with arrmor.

 

Cartoon continuity never said that he wasn't either. We may never have seen cartoon Ultra Magnus out of his armor, but that does not mean he wasn't wearing armor. Ultra Magnus' cartoon design is based off of his toy design, which is a white Optimus Prime cab with a car carrier trailer which becomes battle armor. That is G1 Ultra Magnus. RID Ultra Magnus is the first UM design that wasn't a white Prime with armor.

 

You should also notice, that when Optimus has lost posession of the Matrix, he didn't lose any mass or size, nor revert back to being Optronix (or Orion Pax, depending on which continuity you follow) like Hotrod did when he went from Rodimus Prime back to Hotrod. Optimus remained Optimus, with or without the Matrix. Ultra Magnus, is identical to Optimus, not Optronix.

 

I feel there are several reasons Optimus didn't revert when he lost the matrix: 1, he had the Matrix for so long that it's residual energy was enough to sustain him. 2, he died while removing the matrix, meaning that there was no energy for the change back. 3, Rodimus had only had the Matrix for a very short time and the Matrix was less powerful (having used much of it's power to blow up Unicron) so that is why he reverted.

 

And all that just explains again why I will not be making Magnus armor. You are not going to convince me otherwise and there are way too many conflicting continuities for anyone to ever be able to prove themselves right.

In TFG1: War andf Peace, Shockwave remves the Matrix from Prime, while he is still alive. he doesn't die as a result, nor does he transform back; though he does get weaker. And, yes, the length of time Optimus carried the Matrix has someting to do with that. In fact, it had alot to do with that.

 

Am I telling you that you have to build armor for Magnus? No. What I am saying, is that according to G1 canon, regardless of continuity, Ultra Magnus is a white twin of Optimus Prime with battle armor, and that, when in armor, he is larger than Prime. Whether you or I think that is the way it should be or not, isn't the point. He is larger than Optimus when wearing his armor, and is the same size when out of it; and that is just the way it is. There is no getting around that simple fact.

 

By the way, he was larger than Rodimus Prime too.

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Am I telling you that you have to build armor for Magnus? No. What I am saying, is that according to G1 canon, regardless of continuity, Ultra Magnus is a white twin of Optimus Prime with battle armor, and that, when in armor, he is larger than Prime. Whether you or I think that is the way it should be or not, isn't the point. He is larger than Optimus when wearing his armor, and is the same size when out of it; and that is just the way it is. There is no getting around that simple fact.

 

That's only by the Dreamwave canon. And that the original toy is designed as a white cab with armor. There's nothing else in G1 cartoon canon that calls it fact. As a result, neither can you. It's actually subject to interpretation.

 

The "Twins" angle is ONLY done up by Dreamwave. It is never mentioned in any other format. They also took their canon in a different direction towards the end. It allows another interpretation, but is not the only way it can be seen.

 

You have GOT to stop calling things fact because you prefer them. And you have to stop challenging other people who have a different opinion than you. You have every right to prefer the twins angle, but you've got to stop getting onto other people when they try to say different.

 

Neither of you are right. Neither of you are wrong. And this is an excellent kitbash.

 

By Massdestruction

...and there are way too many conflicting continuities for anyone to ever be able to prove themselves right.

 

Pretty much what I was saying. Learn this please.

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Am I telling you that you have to build armor for Magnus? No. What I am saying, is that according to G1 canon, regardless of continuity, Ultra Magnus is a white twin of Optimus Prime with battle armor, and that, when in armor, he is larger than Prime. Whether you or I think that is the way it should be or not, isn't the point. He is larger than Optimus when wearing his armor, and is the same size when out of it; and that is just the way it is. There is no getting around that simple fact.

 

That's only by the Dreamwave canon. And that the original toy is designed as a white cab with armor. There's nothing else in G1 cartoon canon that calls it fact. As a result, neither can you. It's actually subject to interpretation.

 

The "Twins" angle is ONLY done up by Dreamwave. It is never mentioned in any other format. They also took their canon in a different direction towards the end. It allows another interpretation, but is not the only way it can be seen.

 

You have GOT to stop calling things fact because you prefer them. And you have to stop challenging other people who have a different opinion than you. You have every right to prefer the twins angle, but you've got to stop getting onto other people when they try to say different.

 

Neither of you are right. Neither of you are wrong. And this is an excellent kitbash.

 

By Massdestruction

...and there are way too many conflicting continuities for anyone to ever be able to prove themselves right.

 

Pretty much what I was saying. Learn this please.

The cartoon canon, does not in any way contradict that Ultra Magnus is Prime's "twin" wearing armor. Just because we never see him out of it, does not mean he couldn't remove it. Hasbro canon, says that G1 Ultra Magnus is a White Prime "twin" in armor. Yes, the Dreamwave comics is the first time in any story where we see Magnus out of his armor, but that does not mean that is the only continuity where he could. That is because, the original toy design is what determines what a character is supposed to be able to transform into, and what his components, and modes, are. The old cartoon never showed Magnus out of armor, but it never said that he couldn't remove it either. Therefore, yes, I can say for a fact, that Ultra Magnus is identical to Prime when not in armor, and is larger than Prime when in armor. And, that second fact we have in all continuities, so it cannot be disputed.

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Reading this post, I figured out your issue. You're basically falling back on the toys as "The canon that cannot be argued." It's just another choice to go by.

 

The sad thing is, you force this idea onto others in a manner of, "well, you can do it your way, but remember that what I'm saying is the REAL way." That's the greater issue, not the opinion itself.

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How about this:

 

Tramp says Magnus should be bigger than Prime.

 

Massdestruction says no.

 

WHO CARES? It's your toy, do what you want. If I get the gumption, mine will be more like Tramp's, but that's my own vision.

 

That's only by the Dreamwave canon. And that the original toy is designed as a white cab with armor. There's nothing else in G1 cartoon canon that calls it fact. As a result, neither can you. It's actually subject to interpretation.

 

The "Twins" angle is ONLY done up by Dreamwave. It is never mentioned in any other format. They also took their canon in a different direction towards the end. It allows another interpretation, but is not the only way it can be seen.

 

You have GOT to stop calling things fact because you prefer them. And you have to stop challenging other people who have a different opinion than you. You have every right to prefer the twins angle, but you've got to stop getting onto other people when they try to say different.

 

Neither of you are right. Neither of you are wrong. And this is an excellent kitbash.

 

By Massdestruction

...and there are way too many conflicting continuities for anyone to ever be able to prove themselves right.

 

Pretty much what I was saying. Learn this please.

 

This is what I've been trying to politely point out. I never said that my point of view is the right one or that Tramp's is the wrong one. My not wanting my Classics Magnus to be bigger than Prime is my choice. I am not trying to argue that Ultra Magnus isn't bigger in X canon or Y continuity. I am just saying that I am choosing a size for my Magnus that I prefer and that that doesn't make me bad or evil for not fllowing any one particular canon. This hobby is about having fun collecting and bashing to you own tastes, not arguing canon when each incarnation (toons, movie, comics, toys) had plotholes the size of the black hole from the Cybertron series.

 

My point. I'll make my Magnus as small or as large as I'd like, so that I can continue to enjoy my hobby.

RIR/FIB or RIB/FIR, it doesn't matter as long as you enjoy your hobby.

 

And Tramp, this is the last I will say to defend my choice. If you can't accept that I have the right to my opinions, then that's just sad.

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Well, I still want to reitterate my earlier comment about this bash. I really like what you've done, and it does add a different angle to this mold to seperate him from Prime. And the fact that you've made it functional just adds to it. It's different having the kibble on his back (Grimlock pulled it off) than on the arms.

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