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Why this movie is pretty G1


Radioactive Ravage

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I would say that it was Pretenders that was revisionist,

 

How so? BW I'll grant you, but that's another discussion.

 

You're right, of course: it's all official. But (and I'm not trying to sound elitist here), just because it's officially sanctioned by Hasbro, the owner, doesn't make it either good, appealing, or marketable. Look what they did to the GIJoe movie with Cobra-La, or the Eco-Force in its later seasons.

 

I completely agree, but this isn't a discussion of what were good or bad parts of the franchise...only a discussion of what was part of the franchise, period.

 

Yeah, as a retroactively coined term, "G1" is a bit too catch-all. I would more specifically consider myself a G1 cartoon purist. And not to denigrate those in the other G1 sub-factions, but I regard the show as the major seller of all that catch-all and of the franchise. I doubt MP Prime would've wowed anyone quite the same way if it had been a 12" tall version of the vintage G1 TOY, or even a 12" tall version of comic look. And could you imagine a 12" tall vintage Megatron with that head? It would be a very different type of wow.

 

I'll agree that the show was probably the major driving force for most of the people we're talking about (i.e. fanboys on these message boards) but G1 didn't even consist of just one show. And within the single show you're talking about there are these conflicting aspects that can shape people's aspects as to what G1 is.

 

That's not an equivalent or comparable comparison to the current state. It's like the difference between:
  • having the title character of Richard Attenborough's Gandhi look like Adolf Hitler, versus
  • having the title character of Richard Attenborough's Gandhi look like Adolf Hitler, if the real Gandhi had actually looked Hitler and the real Hitler had actually looked like someone entirely different.

 

Listing other things that could've looked different in other stories or reality is not an explanation as to how the faces we got in 1980 play into things like story and plot. I say this with respect for you, dude, but don't skirt the issue. The faces of the alien robots just don't impact those aspects of the franchise.

 

There's an established memory of who the TF and G1 characters are and what they looked like. I think there's a great number of old ex-fans who still remember that look. Many of the movie supporters, mostly on this board, think otherwise.

 

I don't think its an issue of whether or not a lot of people remember what those characters looked like, it's a question of whether they'll care to hold strong enough to that memory to reject the new images on screen.

 

I don't think they will, or they wouldn't be "ex-fans".

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Well Hobbes, I agree with you a lot - no big surprise there.

 

 

Glue -

My problem with your view is that you, yourself, admitted that you feel this movie needs/should fail since then it could be "done right" in 8-10 years or so by someone else. You have the right to of course feel this way, however, your reasoning behind it seems to be just that it doesn't match up to your wants/needs of what is Transformers. While this of course could probably match anyone if they wanted it that way. But "done right" - all that means is that it would have to be done EXACTLY like you want. "Done right" just means it must meet or exceed certain aspects of what you hold dear as Transformers. While I do understand this point, I don't understand why one such as yourself couldn't be open to seeing something new that is not exactly like a cartoon/toyline/comic from 20+ years ago.

 

I highly doubt you'd want to see a Live-Action movie with the continuity errors, the laziness, and underpaid quality of the G1 Cartoon. I also doubt you'd want it to follow the scripting and overall dialogue that the old Cartoon had. I'm a fan of the old show too, but I'm sorry I just don't see the need to stick so close to it that quality would become an issue. My thoughts also go towards the designs. Even if you went with updated Alternators-styled designs, they would look very cartoony and odd in motion in a live action setting to some degree. Granted - with enough effort and work they could possibly be made to look better than the toys, but they'd still have to find ways to cheat movements unless they made the car-chests flexible or the chunky car parts less solid and more broken up (which in a way we sorta got).

 

Now I can see your point in the faces, yet, a lot of the old G1 faces wouldn't work, as it's not a Cartoon. To even remotely have humanoid faces like G1 the faces would have to be made up of 100s of little micro plates that moved in sequence. The faces would come off as very 'shattered' or 'broken up'. The only other way to do that type of face would be to have the faces explained as super-flexible/malleable and, or semi-putty/plastic like. I don't think that could work well enough, because that would come off as odd - their entire bodies would need to be made up of this material. This would make the point of blending in pointless, particularly if you lean up against a Camero and it's hood feels funky or oddly plastic-like.

 

 

Also, please don't get me wrong. Some of the designs left me with a "WTF?!" feeling at first. The only ones I liked immediately were Prime, Ironhide, Jazz, Blackout, Barricade, and Brawl. Starscream, Megatron, and Bumblebee left me thinking "Wait...ehn?" However the more I have looked at them the more I've liked them. Particularly Bumblebee. These designs come off as alien and unique while still feeling very humanoid-TF-ish to me - JUST LIKE THE OLD G1 BOXART. Which I like.

 

I just wonder, if these designs were more G1, would you be able to see the inherent possible silliness and awkwardness that could be within them once in motion in a Live-Action Setting?

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I think the discussion has run its course... everyone keeps going round and round in the same circles, just as CERTAIN that THEY are correct and no one else is. But, you know what i have come to realize?

 

Yeah the LOVERS are just as delusional as the HATERS, none of us have any REAL solid reason for our intense emotinos.

NONE of us have seen the movie. However i think the LOVERS have the right of way on this one...

And here's why: Because this is a Transformers Discussion board, and by definition that means we (in theory) should genuinely love this franchise.

 

I genuinely enjoy new TF stories and figures, etc... I am always excited to hear about new Transformer stuffs. So even if I am naive, its just as well to give this production team the benefit of the doubt. (Bay, Spielberg etc. lets face it these guys are the biggies for this kind of movie)

 

Otherwise, whats my other option? Unreasonably hating what I claim to love?

Thats silly.

 

Hunter

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Hunter, I said my views belong to me, that those of others belong to them. I didn't say mine are more correct than theirs. I said some of the criticisms and assumptions about why I have mine are flawed.

 

I'm getting inundated again with rebuttal points. Most of these aren't immediately relevant to the topic. All that's needed are my assumptions as a given and my conclusion. We already know you guys disagree with those assumptions. That's fine. But debating them only cascades the entire discussion out of control and back into the same threads where those have been covered before or should be covered. Not here. It's why we're going in circles.

 

And perhaps it's unintentional, but you guys're putting a lot of words in my mouth with half of your posts. Again, bodies are being brought into this debate and not by me. It's obfuscating an otherwise managable discussion. And when did I say an improved, more realistic live-action movie should have continuity errors, laziness, or low quality? That's not what look & feel means. I said the facial aesthetics make or break the movie's "G1-ness" for me. They impact the franchise -- I associate them with those characters. It's subjective and that simple.

 

Whether I think it's realistic, or whether you think it isn't, is a discussion for some other thread. We've also already established that, whether it's a numbers game or whether former fans will let it go, also remains subjective. We disagree on both and that's another debate for elsewhere.

 

So even if I am naive, its just as well to give this production team the benefit of the doubt. (Bay, Spielberg etc. lets face it these guys are the biggies for this kind of movie)

 

Otherwise, whats my other option? Unreasonably hating what I claim to love?

Well as I've said to others, I hope you enjoy it then, Hunter. I just don't think those are the only options. I don't feel obligated to see the film; I don't feel obligated to give the producers a chance, despite being a fan. I would feel the same, even if I weren't a fan. If I see it, meh. But at this point, I don't really care if I miss it, and I certainly won't be stampeding there opening week.

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it just seemed strange that right after Pete said that you were the only one who didnt fall into the "Its not G-1" trap, that you go on to elaborate your statements by citing that - dun dun dun - its not G1.

 

Again, show me were I said that. The post I read had two different thoughts WITH a statement saying that the thought about the vague memories was ASIDE from my own opinions on the designs. How do you take those statements and come to the conclusion that I must hate the designs because they 'aren't G1 enough'? Whatever that means.

 

Unless, of course, that was the conclusion you wanted to come to and, in your mind, there couldn't be any other reason somebody would dislike any of the movie designs.

 

 

I do agree that this discussion has run it's course. It was beaten to death (as far as I'm concerned) after the first design was leaked.

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I can't see a reason why someone couldn't like those design other than 'It's not what i'm used to'. There are lots of people who do not like brussel sprouts 'just because' and not because they do not 'taste like chicken.' Sometimes you just don't like stuff.

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Personally, that people even consider "It's not G1" as some sort of trap or logical fallacy is quickly demonstrating that further discussion is pointless. I'm ignoring all further regurgitations of this "argument". It's the repeated refuge of those who can't think outside their own values. People are so assured of their own "openmindedness" they have to force it down the throats of others, or else dismiss their perceptions as irrational. Talk about paradoxical irony. Rosedog was right. Aside from the few glimmers of hope I had from a few people here, it's as if there's a scarecrow wearing a shirt with "GEEWUN MOVIE HATER" on it, and lots of people with a powerful urge to torch it to no end.

 

DM, after re-reading your post, I think I better understand what you were trying to say. As long as you understand the reasoning, then all those other issues you're wondering about are (rightly) beyond the scope of this thread. You can IM me later if you like.

 

Hobbes, since the production became serious, the producers said, "It's not G1, but some of the characters will be based on G1." The supporters said, "Oh ho! It's not G1! Get over it, haters!" Then they said, "It's based on G1!" Now every week, someone finds some stray element that was in G1 (and half the other scifi movies, cartoons, shows, comics, or anime), and builds it up into some grand plan of how that makes the movie "sorta/completely/pretty/very G1". It's like some compulsive need to find any weapon at hand and grill "Geewuners" even when they're not participating in the thread. I think it's silly, and my only purpose in being here was to point out that a few elements don't make the movie G1, much less for an entire class of people.

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but the point mostly is, who cares if it isn't g1? This is a Transformers movie. Based on a property called Transformers. What in all that we have seen, can anyone possibly construe as not being "transformers"? The answer from those that don't like the designs, has been, "it isn't g1/what i grew up with/transformers" but that's all wacky because it IS transformers and it IS mostly based on g1 and it IS the brand we grew up with, Transformers.

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but the point mostly is, who cares if it isn't g1?

for real

 

I don't really care about this stuff. I just want to be excited about the movie and I don't understand the mentality of people who won't or can't because they're hung up on whatever.

 

I dunno, I'm rapidly losing interest in this discussion. It's getting turned into this giant ball of fanboy gheyness when it really doesn't need to be at all.

 

I guess I just don't understand the intensity of the emotion.

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but the point mostly is, who cares if it isn't g1? This is a Transformers movie. Based on a property called Transformers. What in all that we have seen, can anyone possibly construe as not being "transformers"? The answer from those that don't like the designs, has been, "it isn't g1/what i grew up with/transformers" but that's all wacky because it IS transformers and it IS mostly based on g1 and it IS the brand we grew up with, Transformers.

Some days I really like you...lol.

 

 

 

 

I don't really care about this stuff. I just want to be excited about the movie and I don't understand the mentality of people who won't or can't because they're hung up on whatever.

I dunno, I'm rapidly losing interest in this discussion. It's getting turned into this giant ball of fanboy gheyness when it really doesn't need to be at all.

I guess I just don't understand the intensity of the emotion.

Pete I agree with you here a 100%. I just want to enjoy Transformers from here on out. I just want to enjoy this hobby of mine for many more years to come until for whatever reasons I leave the fandom/hobby.

 

Heh - intense emotion is usually the only emotion you can get from fanboys. Myself included. Since we will keep things so close to our hearts that unless we can actually take a step back and look around at our gheyness/love of whatever it is and see the logic, reasoning, and reailty of it we will be caught up in a web of our own misguided (most of the time) love for our hobbies/interests.

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