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what paint should I use?


Gundam Kai

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Maybe, but when you have studied under a professional movie model maker, and he tells you that enamels will destroy the plastic, you might want to take that advice and not use enamels.

 

Yes, I know you point of view :roll As I said, “every kitbasher has his/her preference about the kind of paints (s)he uses and all have in their opinions good reasons why they use what they useâ€

 

 

I have no doubt that your teacher told you that, but that doesn’t mean it’s true. I know several people who are into model kit building/painting who are all using enamels (and sometimes in combination with acrylics). I’ve asked them if they ever had any problems with enamels eating the plastic and they all gave me the â€are you nutsâ€-look. My father was building model kits in the 70’s and I have a colleague who has been building them since the early 80’s. More than 25 years of model kit building and painting. My father only uses enamels while that colleague uses enamels for hand painting and on the odd occasion that he sprays, he uses acrylics (but isn’t too fond of spraying), and neither had model kits been eating away from the plastic. (Others I know don’t have that long an experience, but I also have asked the same question in several model kit stores with the same result.)

 

Model kits are made from polystyrene, which is one of the, if not THE weakest plastic used. It’s extremely fragile because it’s very porous. That colleague of mine buys a lot of older model kits and his policy is that he won’t buy model kits older then 10 years unless they’re still MISB. Why? Because the plastic is so extremely fragile that exposure to air will cause the plastic to deteriorate.

 

And yet, no one complains about the enamels eating away the plastic!

 

Transformers are made from ABS which is also a kind of styrene, but much and much stronger.

 

If the weakest version (model kit plastic) doesn’t suffer from being eaten by the enamel, then why should the much stronger ABS version?

 

And even if it does... Model kits painted with enamel don’t show sign of deterioration after more than 25 years. So even if the TF plastic will be eaten away by an enamel paint, it will take more than 25 years...much more. Still think you will care about TF’s by that time? (I actually think your TF’s will suffer more from plastic deterioration then from being eaten by enamels; I already have several TF’s even from the RiD era that show sign of the plastic drying out and becoming brittle, let alone the older G1 stuff.)

 

 

The only true advantage of acrylics over enamels, is that they’re less toxic. When applying the paint (especially if you airbrush) the liquid that makes the paint fluid comes into the air. Also, when the paint dries, this same stuff evaporates. This also means that the potential harmful thinner mostly evaporates out of the paint and is therefore no longer a threat to the plastic. Your health, is another matter. Thinner is toxic.

 

This is also the sole reason why in The Netherlands the union of professional housepainters has fought (and won) to get acrylic based paints the norm for house painting. This to the great relieve of the painters, because they were worried about their health. Of course, when they paint their own house, they still use thinner based paint because it’s stronger and you get a better result.

 

The great advantages of acrylics are:

- they dry more quickly

- they’re non-toxic.

 

The great disadvantages are:

- they’re not very solid (meaning you need a primer and more layers to get a smooth and even finish)

- fast drying means that with spraying the paint can be dry the moment it touches the plastic. (This is the exact same reason why that colleague of mine won’t handbrush with acrylics because you’ll get brushstrokes faster with acrylics then with enamels.)

 

(Turn this around for enamels.)

 

 

Oh, and as recently pointed out to Tramp on Transtopia, the acrylics he uses are enamel acrylics :P

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I would say use acrylics, always. Enamels, including Krylon, eat into the plastic in order to bond with it, and this can, and will, weaken the structural integrity of the plastic, and over time, can break down and destroy the plastic. There are a number of methods to prevent chipping of acrylics, including applying a top coat of Future floor polish. This method has been highly recommended by many kitbashers. The only reason why Acrylics chip is because, they don't chemically bond to the plastic, unlike enamels. Thus, the plastic's structural integrity remains intact. Also, enamels are only good on certain types of plastic and won't cure if applied to other types, such as urethane, vinyl, or PVC. Acrylics will adhere to, and properly cure on, all types of plastics.

 

That might explain why when I tried Testor's silver enamel to paint the shoulder pads on my G.I. Joe Sigma 6 guys, it came out sticky and not good quality.

 

 

That part was most likely made from a softer kind of plastic (the very flexible one, the same as with the limbs on Star Wars figures or some flexible parts on TF's: BW-TM2 Megatron's neck). THat kind of plastic you most definitely should not paint with enamels because they won't cure on that kind of plastic.

 

 

My only concern with this new information, and btw, this is not to get off-topic, but will acrylic paint in any way shape or form affect smooth transformation if applied to areas that include two parts touching together very tightly (but not connected). In other words, will it create gaps anywhere.

 

For a good result with acrylics you;d be doing this:

1) primer

2) paint (several layers, but at the very least two)

3) protective layer of cote

 

The paint will be fully on top of the plastic.

 

Now, Krylon fusion only requires two to three layers and those will fuse with the plastic.

 

 

The more layers you paint on the TF, the bigger the chances of it scraping off during movement/transforming. To compensate you'de have to sand more plastic of, but this makes the figure more fragile and doesn't always work.

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I use and swear by Testors model masters spray paint. Easy to use and the finish is near perfect. Ask plowking or any of the others who have a couple of my custom jobs on here. Krylon stuff can't even compare to the finish. It was made for plastic models. Perfect fit and durable. Add a clear coat to it and you've got a winner.

 

 

Yep...no complaints here...and I have one of his very first jobs.... Custom Alt Prowl from Deadend..still one of my faves.... you've been customizing for some years now Blu...

 

I use Krylon Fusion...great stuff, just limited in color choice...NEVER had a problem with it...just follow the directions

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Rawhide, I will trust the word of a professional movie model maker over a hundred amateur modelists. If he says that enamels will eat into the plastic, I believe him. Think about it. How does enamel bond to the paint? It eats into the top layers and bonds chemically to the plastic. That, in and of itself, is proof enough of what he said. It is a chemical reaction with the plastic. That is also why enamels only work with certain types of plastics. Acrylics (including acrylic "enamels", which, as you will notice is a term no longer used since it is an oxymoron given that they aren't enamels at all) don't chemically bond to the plastics, they simply harden on the surface, and thus leave the plastic undamaged. Enamels are inherantly bad for plastics and should never be used on plastic.

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Rawhide, I will trust the word of a professional movie model maker over a hundred amateur modelists. If he says that enamels will eat into the plastic, I believe him. Think about it. How does enamel bond to the paint? It eats into the top layers and bonds chemically to the plastic. That, in and of itself, is proof enough of what he said. It is a chemical reaction with the plastic. That is also why enamels only work with certain types of plastics. Acrylics (including acrylic "enamels", which, as you will notice is a term no longer used since it is an oxymoron given that they aren't enamels at all) don't chemically bond to the plastics, they simply harden on the surface, and thus leave the plastic undamaged. Enamels are inherantly bad for plastics and should never be used on plastic.

 

Hey Tramp, I completely respect your opinion, although I don't really agree with you :tfevil

 

We apparently come from a completely different background. In my profession there are both professionals (who have attended and completed university) and amateurs. Where the professionals have a broad general knowledge, the amateurs are often highly respected because although they lack the broad general view, they do have a great in-depth knowledge of a small part of the whole. I also have noticed that a lot of professionals don't really have knowledge but since they're professionals, they are absolutely convinced that they're right. After all, being an amateur doesn't mean you're ignorant or incompetent or have less experience, it simply means that you don't make living out of it.

 

I'm also surprised to hear you say that enamels adhere better to plastic because they chemically bond to it. I use enamels (originally Revell and now Humbrol) but I've seriously considered switching to acrylics hoping that they'd bond better: I can scrap the enamel paint of with my thumb without any problems and I always coat my stuff (even during different colors) to prevent paint chipping. (I use an acrylic based final cote that's pretty durable and tougher then any enamel cote I can get.) -- and, of course, there's the health reasons.

 

 

But, as I said it before, it all comes down to what you prefer.

 

 

 

 

In this case, to get back on topic, OPiJ has to consider what he wants do to.

 

I would definitely recommend him using Krylon Fusion. Of all the options is the one that will give you the best result with the minimum fuss. No need for priming, no need for coating and it's the most wear resistant paint you can get that has been designed for use on hard plastics like ABS (what TF's are made of).

 

Yes, it has its disadvantages (toxic, instructions need to be followed precisely, it chemically bonds with the plastic so it might indeed over the very extended long run (decades) cause damage to the plastic), but you simply get the best results with the least bit of work.

 

Besides, many of the (great) kitbashers use Krylon Fusion...would many really switch to using Krylon Fusion (instead of enamels/carpaint/acrylics) if they thought is was a bad choice...?

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^ Agreed. As I said in my initial post: "every kitbasher has his/her preference about the kind of paints (s)he uses and all have in their opinions good reasons why they use what they use"

 

There is no one true good almighty paint. If it were, we wouldn't be having these discussion over and over again.

 

 

So, basically pick what you think would be the right paint to use. Maybe do a little experimenting and go with your own choice. For each choice there are good argument pro & con.

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