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Explain this to me (Another KO / 3rd pty Discussion)


Backfire

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Basically what it all comes down to is that 3rd party figures make Hasbro look like lying assholes. It's true. Hasbro is always saying that certain things are done in certain ways because of cost issues, but if these start ups with little or nothing can make it happen then why not the mighty Hasbro who is reaping millions?

 

 

I don't know why Hasbro resists, and sometimes seem to resent, the collectors so much. There is only so far they themselves are willing to go. That's the problem, unlike Marvel who can still put out high end collectible figures from other companies, Hasbro will never do that with a property they own. The only alternative would be if Hasbro ever decided to start a collectors division to service the higher demands of collectors across all of their lines. Then however you're talking about the potential for the Macross effect as I like to call it. Everything priced double of what it should be.

 

I don't think they don't see there being any profit in a collectors division, just not enough of one. It's not worth their time. Who knows, in an era where it's much easier for kids to follow through collecting from childhood to adulthood with little or no interruption, the collectors landscape might end up looking more lucrative someday. Then, we'll see.

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1-Hasbro/Takara want these 3rd party companies to pay them a $100,000 liscense fee like CHMS corps does.

 

I don't think they paid Hasbro a dime. If they had acquired the rights then KOToys would still be alive and kicking.

 

Sorry I meant to type "CMS CORPS" not CHMS. Heres a link to BBTS.com that sells some liscensed CMS TF items.

http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/product.aspx?product=CMS10128&mode=retail

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Hasbro would be more than happy to work with these third party companies. All they have to do is buy that $100k license. Hasbro will always have the view of "Pay the admission price to work with us".

That's pretty much true. Hasbro have no interest in working with anyone unless you're willing to pay their licensing fee. When I tried to organise an Australian Transformers convention to be held in 2004, I contacted Hasbro Australia and asked them what could be done to make the convention legitimate, one thing I asked was what I could do to make our convention exclusive comic book (which I was privately funding the production of) official, and they said that I would need to pay a $10,000 licensing fee. :O Where did you guys get the $100k figure from? Or do they charge more for people for toy licences as opposed to comic book/merchandising licences?

 

Either way, $10k was waaay beyond what I could afford. But that's just the way Hasbro is structured -- they're designed to deal with other companies/corporations, not with individual fans or small groups of fans. In fact, the guy who called me up and told me the bad news about the licensing fee - who knew that I wouldn't be able to afford it, then basically said to me, "We don't know anything about a convention... but good luck with it!" ;) So basically, it was like -- go for it, but don't tell us about it! And that was pretty much their attitude to third parties, especially with stuff like the accessory kits that enhance Hasbro toys. In fact, I know of at least one Hasbro designer (not mentioning any names) who likes 3rd party accessories and he actually acquired at least one of them! It's stuff that Hasbro can't make... but they recognise that it's a cool add-on for their toys. Really... Hasbro recognised that there was a symbiotic and mutually beneficial relationship between unlicensed accessory kits and Hasbro toys. So for a long time Hasbro politely turned a blind eye.

 

But I think things started getting out of hand when some 3rd party makers started making unofficial action figures with Hasbro's IP; and suddenly creating a parasitic relationship with Hasbro's toys... at best, benign parasitism where the host organism (Hasbro) isn't necessarily directly harmed, but nor is it benefiting from "hosting" the parasite. Should Hasbro be creating these toys instead of giving 3rd party makers to opportunity to do so? Absolutely. Should Hasbro have acted out sooner against unlicensed toys instead of tolerating them for so long and only now restricting them at sanctioned events? Absolutely. So I'm not saying that Hasbro's without any blame here... if these third party action figure makers are parasites, then Hasbro certainly did leave themselves open to infestation and for a long time did little to cleanse themselves of them.

 

I don't think they don't see there being any profit in a collectors division, just not enough of one. It's not worth their time. Who knows, in an era where it's much easier for kids to follow through collecting from childhood to adulthood with little or no interruption, the collectors landscape might end up looking more lucrative someday. Then, we'll see.

See... the beauty about Classics/Henkei/Universe/Generations/United/Reveal The Shield is that these toys appeal to both kids and collectors. You look at most Classicsverse toys -- they're nice, solid and fun toys to play with for kids, but are also based on iconic characters created with contemporary engineering for adult collectors to love. The people who worked on Classicsverse deserve a freaking medal. Whoever decided to cancel the line for this long deserves a kick to the nards.

 

This makes me feel really old, but the children who grew up watching Beast Wars are young adults now. With disposable incomes. Not like us old fuddy duddy G1 kids - many of us now tied down with mortgages and families (and thus relatively less disposable income). You'd think HasTak would be (should be) milking the crap out of these kids by pumping out reissues of Beast Wars and what not. But no. We saw a few reissues in 2006 for the 10th anniversary... when a lot of BW kids were in high school. But now they've graduated from high school and are university students or even graduates now! Milk the market! That's what Takara did to us 12 years ago when many of us were at that stage of being young adults with disposable incomes! Why not include more Beast Wars characters into Generations? I wasn't a fan of Universe Dinobot or Cheetor personally; honestly, the original BW toys are mostly so well designed they haven't "aged" as much as G1 has. You don't really need to make whole new moulds, but just reissue them with some modifications, e.g.:

+ Optimus Primal with proper Prime Jets (like Robot Master Beast Convoy), dual flip out forearm blasters (lose the mace) and a face plate that can slide open to reveal the mouth! (similar to say Cybertron or Animated Optimus Prime) :)

+ A more show-like Dinobot

+ Rhinox with his chain guns of doom! Make them gatling missile launchers!

+ Reissue X-9 Ravage!!

+ A Transmetal Rattrap whose back section can pivot 180 degrees like in the cartoon (then repaint him as Packrat!)

...you could make whole new moulds for Airazor and Blackarachnia to make them look more feminine and like the cartoon.

 

Or heck, introduce a whole new Beast Wars series with continuity reboot -- much like how TF Prime is the "new G1," why not a "new BW"?

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eh forget it this is all

 

:deadhorse

 

Anyway

 

thank you! i'm tired of reading about this shit. Hasbro is not going to work with any of these people no matter what. they don't like 3rd parties and what they're doing. end of story.

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Meh, if these people wanted to genuinely design legit Transformers, then why not apply for a job at Hasbro or Takara? A friend of mine did that... used to work for Takara few years back (although he was placed in the Microman division, not TFs). There are ways to get into it. Some of the Hasbro designers are TF fans too -- like whoever decided to make Darkmount; that could only come from the heart of a fan! Of course they had to give him an alt mode that's more identifiable to children (as opposed to some random space cannon that kids who didn't grow up with G1 wouldn't recognise). If I had an engineering or design degree and I really wanted to work on Transformers, I'd be sending my CV to Takara and/or Hasbro. :)

 

And even if these 3rd party designers worked for HasTak... designers don't make the final call on which characters/toys to make, or even which line to produce. Like they could make some great designs for Classicsverse Insecticons, but it's ultimately up to the head honchos like Aaron Archer to green light it or deny it. I bet you if Archer gave the green light for more Classicsverse toys today, HasTak designers and engineers would start spitting out designs like that <snaps.fingers> HasTak HAS the ability to pump out great toys that kids and adults will love. But for some stupid reason, someone in the higher command chain isn't making the decision to give it the go ahead! If HasTak gave us Generations Arcee, Generations Insecticons, Generations Reflector, Generations Springer etc., I don't know about you guys, but I'd be like...

shutuptakemoney.jpg

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Wait... CHMS pays that $100K fee? And their stuff is still pretty cheap? More than the $10 retail toys we get in the states. Interesting...

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SP, I don't see where CMs Corp is licensed. Can you provide solid proof or else get off that horse? Not the first time you've provided erroneous info here.

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SP, I don't see where CMs Corp is licensed. Can you provide solid proof or else get off that horse? Not the first time you've provided erroneous info here.

 

Finding a list of who is or who isn't licensed is difficult to prove. From what I can tell, CM'S Corp is licensed by Tomy (among other companies) to create the products that they do.

 

Not that it means anything, but TF Wiki is an anti-third party site, and even has their TF related products listed.

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/CM%27s_Corporation

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