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Explain this to me (Another KO / 3rd pty Discussion)


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I just spent a good portion of my Saturday starting or finishing some custom paint jobs on some Classics Transformers into Diaclone colors... And it hit me, HOW does these 3rd party and KO's of retired toy molds hurt Hasbro/Takara?

 

3rd party toys, like the new Power Master Prime that just came out, now THAT is impressive, however you still NEED the ORIGINAL TF Classics Prime from hasbro/takara in order for it to work. And the toy has run it's course, it's been released and is no longer being produced by hasbro, so the only way for us to get this is through the secondary market, which has NO bearing on the parent companies. Granted it might make them look bad, I'd rather believe that it raises the bar, hopefully shows them the way to what the true old school fan's want to see.

 

Did this help? Apparently not because (Except for the mini MP prime and Sideswipe) there is no more Classics/Generations/Universe line. SO they did not get the message.

 

So we also have KO's of other molds that do use the orginal toys from hasbro/takara. Again, anything that comes out now is after the original line has run it's course, and the parent company has stopped using the molds, BUT there is still a desire from the old school fans to have more variations of say the seekers, prime trucks and sideswipe molds that have not been produced or will not be produced in the future (cept maybe for Botcon). In my eyes, these enhance the original collecton of officially bought Takara/Hasbro products and keep the theme going in my home.

 

Finally, original 3rd party toys that are based on G1 characters. This is a mixed bag of cats. On one hand, it's fan based entities building what is in their eyes a great update to the original chracters, which hasbro/takara has not provided to the fans. This does not directly take money away from the parent company because they have not produced anything exactly the same. They could be missing out due to likeness of trade marked caracters and mass production issues. I would say again, this would really be a call to the parent companies to produce what the true, old school fans want.

 

I spent $20 on materials today for paints and such to custom paint 5 or 6 classics toys (junkers) that I paid for either from the store or on the secondary market. I believe at the core, these 3rd party creators are doing the same, and with costs to pacaging and manufacturing, they probably do not make a lot of money.

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From my understanding & GUESSES/SPECULATION from reading the top 5 TF sites/forums.

 

1-Hasbro/Takara want these 3rd party companies to pay them a $100,000 liscense fee like CHMS corps does.

 

2- Hasbro/Takara is concerned about these 3rd party TF toy companies making not-TF toys that don't follow the Rigorous toy safety rules/guide lines established be each countries governement.

 

3- Hasbro/Takara get embarassed when these 3rd party TF toy companies. create stuff that hasbro/Takara employess said it was impossible to create,no market for these items. they won't sell because their outdatted designs no one wants. to complicated to created. no one wants to see/buy some of the weird alt modes TF's. and the list goes on into infinity.

 

4- Hasbro/Takara are upset because they claim everything fans want is comming eventually. hasbro doesn't like these 3rd party TF companies rushing them nor stealing profits/sales from customers before them.

 

5- Hasbro/Takara & these 3rd party TF companies are not willing to compromise & work together. because 3rd party companies know/speculate hasbro/takara would take their $100,000 for liscense fees. just as means to shut them down by controlling their every move & business decissions. thru under handed tricks like having hasbro/takara employees needing to approve everything before it goes for sale. strict guide lines & rules to get followed. a list of stuff they can't create due to hasbro/takara having plans to create TF toys of them within a 20 year time frame.

Edited by Shadowpanther
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I just spent a good portion of my Saturday starting or finishing some custom paint jobs on some Classics Transformers into Diaclone colors... And it hit me, HOW does these 3rd party and KO's of retired toy molds hurt Hasbro/Takara?

 

3rd Party Toys

It depends on the nature of the product. With items like City Commander, then I agree that far from hurting HasTak's toys, it actually compliments it and serves to have a SYMBIOTIC relationship with the legit toy. As you said, you do need to have the original Classic Ultra Magnus in order for this toy to work. :) Likewise with the trailer/armour for RtS Deluxe Optimus Prime; both HasTak and the 3rd Party makers benefit from it because both products are co-dependent on each other... and it was released pretty quickly; i.e. while RtS Primes were still on shelves, thus promoting more sales of that toy from Hasbro. Where it becomes more morally ambiguous is with 3rd Party action figures, like Not-Arcee. The people who make these toys are ripping off HasTak's intellectual property and HasTak are reaping NO benefit from it. These toys form a PARASITIC relationship with HasTak. So while I can see that an ethical argument could be made in favour of symbiotic 3rd party products, i.e. accessory kits that enhance Hasbro's toys -- the same cannot be applied to 3rd Party action figures which are more like IP parasites.

 

So we also have KO's of other molds that do use the orginal toys from hasbro/takara. Again, anything that comes out now is after the original line has run it's course, and the parent company has stopped using the molds, BUT there is still a desire from the old school fans to have more variations of say the seekers, prime trucks and sideswipe molds that have not been produced or will not be produced in the future (cept maybe for Botcon). In my eyes, these enhance the original collecton of officially bought Takara/Hasbro products and keep the theme going in my home.

Let's make something clear here -- a knockoff is a synonym for counterfeit. And a counterfeit is, by technical definition, something that's fraudulently produced and passed off as being genuine. For example, an unauthorised reproduction of G1 Sunstorm is a counterfeit. A Classics Starscream in Sunstorm's colours is arguably not, because there's never been an official Classics Sunstorm; thus this toy isn't an imitation of a genuine product per se (although it is still a counterfeit of the mould itself, and also an unauthorised use of the Sunstorm likeness).

 

A friend of mine recently paid for 3 G1 toys - MISB - believing they were legit. It was only AFTER he made the purchase and received the toys, that someone else pointed out to him that they're fakes. He is pissed that he's had to part with a lot of hard earned money buying something that he thought was real, only to later discover that they're not. :( Now say if someone decided to make a "G1 Acid Storm" and sell it, then you're not actually making/selling a KO because there's never been a G1 Acid Storm toy. Nobody's gonna look at that and mistake it for being a legit HasTak toy. Of course, there's nothing stopping these manufacturers from adding a disclaimer like, "Unlicensed" or just avoiding using the Transformers logo/name itself (as 3rd party makers often too) to further avoid confusion amongst some ignorant consumers.

 

Finally, original 3rd party toys that are based on G1 characters. This is a mixed bag of cats. On one hand, it's fan based entities building what is in their eyes a great update to the original chracters, which hasbro/takara has not provided to the fans. This does not directly take money away from the parent company because they have not produced anything exactly the same. They could be missing out due to likeness of trade marked caracters and mass production issues. I would say again, this would really be a call to the parent companies to produce what the true, old school fans want.

I totally agree that Hasbro should be getting off their arses and making these toys instead of leaving 3rd party companies to fill the void. There's NO excuse for Hasbro to not being giving us more Classicsverse characters like Arcee, Springer, Reflector, the Insecticons et al. But no, they'd rather give us more FREAKING BUMBLEBEE REPAINTS instead.

th_facepalm_primeratchet.jpg

...but to me, that still doesn't justify 3rd Party parasites taking Hasbro's IP and using it without any benefit to Hasbro.

 

Let me put it this way. Do you have any toys sitting in storage that you never display or play with? How would you feel if someone came along and stole it, thinking it was justified because you weren't using it? The fact is, it's your property, and nobody has the right to take it - irrespective of whether or not you're using it. I think it's downright stupid to collect toys and not play with them... what's the point? It's like buying books and not reading them, or buying food and sticking them to rot inside your fridge. If you're not going to use something, why buy it in the first place?!?!?!?!? But there are people who DO buy toys and... for whatever reason, just don't play with them! Now that's just as stupid as Hasbro sitting on their G1 character IPs and not using them to produce more Classicsverse toys. But does it make it okay for other people to take it? Hell no.

 

But yeah... Hasbro needs to be looking at how much some collectors are spending on 3rd party action figures and ask themselves, "Why is this happening?? Why aren't *WE* making these toys that people want and making money off it?!?" It's just typical of Hasbro's inattention to Transformers. Look at the stupid way they handled the Classicsverse Seekers. Had they released all 6 of those characters in 2006-07, they would have sold. But nnnooo... they just gave us Starscream, Skywarp and Ramjet... and that was it! It was fans who pushed to have Dirge, Thrust and Thundercracker released as BotCon exclusives - which of course means that most fans can't access them. :( It took Hasbro F I V E Y E A R S to eventually release all 6 Seekers! W T F ? ? (O_o)

 

I've said this before, and I'll say it again... Hasbro needs Ritalin!

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sigh.... here we go again.

 

First sign of flaming, baiting or other aggressive behavior and I will shut this down.

 

You've been warned.

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sigh.... here we go again.

 

First sign of flaming, baiting or other aggressive behavior and I will shut this down.

 

You've been warned.

 

 

Blitz, I don't see what Goktimus said as baiting or aggressive behavior at all. And I think everything everyone said here is pretty valid. I do think that Hasbro should learn from what's being sold in 3rd party markets and there should be no excuses to the designers at all for not making what third parties do come up with.

 

I know Hasbro has the talent ahe what was being done lately in the Classicsverse was starting to blow my mind and if not canceled and or misplaced and thirdly created, I think it would make us fans happier to find figures we love on the shelves instead of non existant unless it's from the third party or somewhere in the abyss of e-bay in the hands of slack jawed scalpers.

 

It's not an attack but more of a ...I know you can be better than this, Hasbro.

 

Look at what the asian markets are creating and how appreciative they are of just having the right repaint and not a ton of the same guy being repainted over and over again. Only time I can see that happening are in respects to the Seekers or the Fairlady Z Brothers. Maybe others... :P ...but I do know the capacity is there.

 

And I still think third parties can do more to help Hasbro rather than hurt Hasbro. I wouldn't have an Ultra Magnus without them both.

 

PS...If Hasbro made G1 Devastator happen they can make a WHOLE lot more and they wouldn't have to charge a bundle for all of us to have one. Don't judge from Movie Devastator...that thing should have never happened.

Edited by RUMBLEBEE
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I'm just not happy. I don't go to stores with a toy section and look any more for the latest releases because I'm not collecting the movie line or Prime. I am an old school collector and I want the old school related toys and characters.

 

I don't have $150 extra to spend on a single MP toy that my be couple years before the next MP car of that scale comes out, if it comes out at all. And what are the odds they make it Sunstreaker, or Red Alert?

 

Honestly I think maybe they should consider hiring these 3rd party companies or making some kind of deal to have them produce a continuing classics line, and for GOD'S sake stick with one freaking name and scale.

 

If hastak came out with a collectors set of 6 seekers in alternative colors, like Sunstorm and others not released prior to now officially, I would buy it.

 

I really hope that Hastak makes something like a G1 Predaking or Devestator that puts the 3rd party sets to shame. I can't afford them right now either so all I can do is sit back and wish.

 

KO's passed off as the real thing are BAD, in what ever way, shape or form. There is now and never will be any question to that. But KO's do have their uses, such as parts donation, and alternatives to the real thing when the originals are not attainable. Have said it before, there's a bunch of old school bots I have that used KO parts to update and complete. I really wish there were more 3rd party sites like Transrepro used to be.

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I'm just not happy. I don't go to stores with a toy section and look any more for the latest releases because I'm not collecting the movie line or Prime. I am an old school collector and I want the old school related toys and characters.

 

I don't have $150 extra to spend on a single MP toy that my be couple years before the next MP car of that scale comes out, if it comes out at all. And what are the odds they make it Sunstreaker, or Red Alert?

 

Honestly I think maybe they should consider hiring these 3rd party companies or making some kind of deal to have them produce a continuing classics line, and for GOD'S sake stick with one freaking name and scale.

 

If hastak came out with a collectors set of 6 seekers in alternative colors, like Sunstorm and others not released prior to now officially, I would buy it.

 

I really hope that Hastak makes something like a G1 Predaking or Devestator that puts the 3rd party sets to shame. I can't afford them right now either so all I can do is sit back and wish.

 

KO's passed off as the real thing are BAD, in what ever way, shape or form. There is now and never will be any question to that. But KO's do have their uses, such as parts donation, and alternatives to the real thing when the originals are not attainable. Have said it before, there's a bunch of old school bots I have that used KO parts to update and complete. I really wish there were more 3rd party sites like Transrepro used to be.

:agree

 

I've always thought that Hasbro should work a lot more closely with Third Parties or hire a few designers but then again... you never know what might come of that union. Hopefully there'll be someone with vision that will move the company forward and get the figures to the right distribution.

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1-Hasbro/Takara want these 3rd party companies to pay them a $100,000 liscense fee like CHMS corps does.

 

I don't think they paid Hasbro a dime. If they had acquired the rights then KOToys would still be alive and kicking.

 

But yeah reading between the lines, it does not hurt Hasbro, especially if its a long retired mold. But they still dont like it because there is always the possibility they might do something like it later on, ultra mammoth is a good example.

Edited by Reluttr
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Hasbro would be more than happy to work with these third party companies. All they have to do is buy that $100k license. Hasbro will always have the view of "Pay the admission price to work with us".

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