Let's have a wee chat about Knock Offs

[Vigadeath]

In a bid to get more feedback about the whole discussion (and maybe a bit more exposure too!) I've been doing the rounds with this idea about KO toys!

 

For starters, here's the video that started it all

 

 

So KOs are changing. How are they changing? Well it's no longer a case of shoddily made crapfests! A lot of KOs these days (mostly from CHMS) are of quite a high quality and of very very particular toys that most of us cannot afford, toys like Botcon exclusives of TFCC releases.

 

I ask you all then, where do you stand on the subject of how legitimate or moral these toys are, which are at the root of the matter KOs and illegal and on the subject of actively pursuing a KO release over the original?

 

In some cases it's place holders, in others it's the out right buy! I've got a KO City and Shadow commander and am actively waiting on the Launchers and gun KO kit being released as the official one now costs about the same as the entire City Commander kit when it was first released! Crazy stuff!

 

Is it all okay as long as they are clearly marked as KO and not as the original? Isn't it still stealing? But are companies like CHMS not giving us the buying public what we want, that being access to exclusive and expensive toys?

[Shadowpanther]

As far as KO toys goes & how morally wrong or right it is. I don't care about morals for plastic toys. their are far worse crimes in this world than IP Toy theft. in this world the big corporations are the evil ones & not the consumers. So I don't care if a greedy corporation looses a few bucks by KO companies or 3rd party companies.

 

I am not a selfish TF fan. If others want to buy KO's or 3RD Party TF toys. then I'm gonna let them do it. I won't put up road blocks,nor report this to hasbro/takara or complain on-line how wrong it is to buy these items. Because I don't care. I'm not about to run around stealing the joy away from others that enjoy something I don't. life isn't easy,if plastic toys can give some joy,then let them enjoy that joy.

 

I don't like the greedy millionaire/billionaire companies. So I am not about to go the extra mile by helping them out. by being reporting these KO or 3rd party companies to them.

[Fatherdeth]

I buy KOs from Big Lots at times. Not a huge fan. I am a huge fan of Third Party companies though. They give us Transformers that Hasbro refuses to put out or give us crappy designs.

[Backfire]

KO's should NEVER be promoted AS an original toy.

 

I thirst for certain variants, and if a KO maker provides a variation that is either too difficult or expensive to find, or it simply does not exist anywhere else, I would buy the KO. Or else MAKE a custom painted version to my desire.

 

I did purchase the original Fansproject City Commander, Shadow Commander and DiaCommander sets, I don't believe the new Shattered Commander set is from them, but I bought it none the less. I also bought an extra KO DiaCommander to make a custom PM Prime variation (I have yet to complete).

 

On top of this, I have the US Magnus, Prime, and the Hasbro release of Nemesis. The KO Shattered Prime and the KOLD Overload - blue Diaclone version. In addition to this, to WEAR the armor, I have KO's or customs for each! While the loose bots stand along side.

 

Before KOLD made the blue Overload, I made a custom.

 

Right now, my issue is the Botcon 2012 Turbo Tracks. I WANT one for a resonable price, but the last toy show I went to, the only way to get it was to buy the set. So either I pay someone seperately a LOT of money, or take a normal one and paint it. Since I wanted to customize it and make the head more feminine to be Road Rage, I might be better off using a $10 tracks and painting it vs spending $100 on a real one.

 

But what of other variants, like the Red Mirage Classics toy? I bought an extra Mirage for $20, planning on custom painting it red like the diaclone version. I waited and waited and then a cheap KO Red Mirage came out, for $14? I bought that and the green variant, just so I could have another car on a race track. I can now sell the Classics Mirage and keep the KO, or make the Mirage a different color, black perhaps?

 

We as collectors gota do what we gota do. I for one am thrilled that CHM made the Deep Cover variants, and bought both. Sure the arms fall off and are made of clear plastic painted white, and one of them came to me missing a head, it's fantastic KO FAN based companies created affordable customs like this, and if my TF lineup is missing a variant that they can provide then I'm gonna snag it, or custom paint it my self.

 

Now SOMEBODY remake the dang classics prowl into blue bluestreak so I can give up on trying to brush paint one. The dang hood is glued shut from the paint and it's a bloody mess!

[Backfire]

What of the new Artfire exclusive? $100+ for a $20 toy. It isn't even Inferno, it's a red Grapple with the white chest.

 

I'm not getting it, I'd rather have a Hauler, and since they didn't make that, and if they did it'd be WAY too much money, you guessed it, I'm gonna custom paint one someday!

[Fatherdeth]

Yeah, Artfire's price is ridiculous. I'm sick of these molds being used over, and over again.

[puma]

-ahem-

 

:deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse

[Backfire]

It's FUN poking the dead horse with a stick!

[Goktimus Prime]

+ How would you feel if I broke into your house and stole your TV, but when I sold it I informed my customers that I'm not an authorised dealer and that the product comes from an unlicensed source? Or if I just outrightly said, "Ppssst? Wanna buy a stolen TV real cheap?" -- would that make my crime any more noble by informing my customers that the product is stolen, thus giving them consumer choice?

 

+ Not all Chinese versions are illegal. There ARE legitimately fully licensed Chinese G1 reissues. They should NOT be confused with illegitimate unlicensed counterfeits made in China. So simply saying "Chinese version" does NOT mean that the toys are necessarily KOs. Now more knowledgeable collectors will know which figures were legitimately reissued in China and which weren't, but some more casual consumers may not, and they are more likely to get stung. If these KO makers really wanted to be honest, then don't forge the packaging -- or put something on the packaging that clearly says "UNLICENSED." Heck... even HasTak mark their legitimate reissues with something on the packaging that tells you that it's not an original G1 toy, like the Hasbro or Takara logos -- or the Encore logo. To say that selling KOs is okay so long as people know that it's not legit (informed consumer choice) is kinda mooted by the fact that the manufacturer gives NO definitive indication that the toy is illegitimate. It's more up to the seller to let you know, and they only do it with indirect and ambiguous messages like "Chinese version." That doesn't explicitly mean it's a counterfeit; it's false advertising and misleading - a violation of consumer rights.

 

+ HasTak do have to pay a lot of extra costs that counterfeiters don't... such as paying staff who work on recolour and retooling the toys, work on packaging design, artists, marketing staff etc. And while manufacturing is done in China, Hasbro and Takara's employees are in the U.S. and Japan where people are paid a higher income in USD and JPY. Employees with families to feed. It's especially the retooling that costs a lot btw; not to mention the fact that they manufacture these toys in limited quantities, so the individual unit price goes up compared to regular retail Transformers which are manufactured in the millions. Counterfeiters simply take the product that HasTak has spend time and money creating, then forge it. Minimum cost expenditure - and it's all done on the cheap in China. So naturally counterfeiters can afford to sell the toys at a cheaper price. It's unfair competition - that's why it's illegal! Imagine if you opened up a market place stall selling goods, but you had to pay a stallholder fee, thus this may be reflected in your prices. The person in the stall next to you just rocked up and set up in an empty space -- didn't pay a stallholder fee, so his prices are way cheaper than yours. If you lower your prices, then you recoup less money from the stallholder fee you paid. How would you feel?

 

+ You asked us the question: a choice between paying for an expensive exclusive toy vs. paying a third of the price for a counterfeit: which would you choose? Here's my answer...

I CHOOSE NEITHER. I hate paying above the original price for a Transformer, and I sure as hell won't pay thieves for a flecking FAKE. I have this thing called standards. Like right now I've preordered MP Sunstorm and United Artfire, so I'll be getting them at their original prices, which are expensive, but they're limited exclusives. I'm NOT going to wait until months later to hunt them down on eBay at stupid inflated prices. Heck, I don't even have an eBay account! If I can't get a toy at it's original retail price, then I just don't get the toy. Simple as that. I do have a fair few exclusive toys, all of which I paid original prices for. I would rather NOT have a toy than accept a fake. It may mean that I'll never collect every exclusive toy out there, but that's fine... I get to maintain my honour and integrity as a collector.

 

What of the new Artfire exclusive? $100+ for a $20 toy. It isn't even Inferno, it's a red Grapple with the white chest.

Yeah, Artfire's price is ridiculous. I'm sick of these molds being used over, and over again.

No... scalpers' stupid inflated prices are f'expensive. United Artfire is going to sell for 6000JPY ($75; or 5700JPY ($71) each if you order 2), which isn't cheap for a Voyager, but it's a limited exclusive w/ a new Targetmaster accessory. If you're paying above the equivalent of 6000JPY for this toy, then you're paying too damn much. But that's not TakaraTOMY's fault, that's the seller (and also the buyer for paying such silly prices; seriously, we could put scalpers out of business if people just refused to pay their inflated prices).

[Sparkless]

Here we go again..... :fail