Jump to content

Transformers Collectors Ethics


Goktimus Prime

TF collector ethics: Multiples  

24 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you buy multiples of the same toy?

    • No.
    • Yes, only if the toy isn't scarce or rare.
    • Yes, but if the toy is scarce or rare I'll buy just one extra.
    • Yes, I'll buy as many of the same toy as I like, regardless of scarcity or rarity.
    • Other (please specify)


Recommended Posts

Scalping is one of those things that is wrong, yet it is needed in our society. And honestly morals and ethics do not play into any of this.

 

Okay, I'll bite...

 

How is scalping needed in our society? So if I try to go to a store and buy a toy, but I can't because someone else has bought all of them, but that person then turns around and says to me, "Hey, you wanted that toy? I'll sell it to you, and it will only cost twice what I paid for it!" how is that needed?

 

I suppose I could see a slight benefit in the case of a store exclusive if it is at a store that isn't available nationally. Although, seriously, the best example I can think of right now would be poor Windcharger, and he is going for rediculous prices on eBay. I would have never paid that much for him, and instead I am indebted to another member of these forums who was kind enough to pick one up and send it to me for cost plus S&H. I would not have even minded if he had asked for a little extra for his troubles... but the $40 to $50 I see being asked for him on eBay... That's not a needed thing. That is mean people taking advantage of a situation, and I feel bad for the people who find it necessary to pay such prices because they have no other options.

 

Of course, my argument is probably based on those silly morals and ethics that you say don't enter into it. I find such an attitude rather alien. I am not a religious person, or anything. Far from it. But still, I try to lead a moral life, because it seems to be the right thing to do. And such things are not variable depending on the situation. Morals are morals. And if yours are optional, then I find that a bit sad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 71
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Doubles? Only if it's a really good deal. I picked up an extra Classics Laser Prime at Ross for $7 because he was only $7 and there will be an upgrade for him soon.

 

Scourge army? Only if I had some extra cash, and there were a few on the shelves at the time. Definetly I wouldn't clear all of them in one swoop. If I intend on doing a repaint on a figure then I'll pick up an extra for a repaint. Like, I think Kup could work good as an Orion Pax repaint but I wouldn't pick up like five of them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ok...im not gonna lie...when armada was first hitting...and jetfire was a right pain in the ass to find...i bought everyone i saw....and mind you it wasnt many...i found maybe 8....and that was from looking at 15 different stores over the course of four months...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Scalping is one of those things that is wrong, yet it is needed in our society. And honestly morals and ethics do not play into any of this.

 

Okay, I'll bite...

 

How is scalping needed in our society? So if I try to go to a store and buy a toy, but I can't because someone else has bought all of them, but that person then turns around and says to me, "Hey, you wanted that toy? I'll sell it to you, and it will only cost twice what I paid for it!" how is that needed?

 

I suppose I could see a slight benefit in the case of a store exclusive if it is at a store that isn't available nationally. Although, seriously, the best example I can think of right now would be poor Windcharger, and he is going for rediculous prices on eBay. I would have never paid that much for him, and instead I am indebted to another member of these forums who was kind enough to pick one up and send it to me for cost plus S&H. I would not have even minded if he had asked for a little extra for his troubles... but the $40 to $50 I see being asked for him on eBay... That's not a needed thing. That is mean people taking advantage of a situation, and I feel bad for the people who find it necessary to pay such prices because they have no other options.

 

Of course, my argument is probably based on those silly morals and ethics that you say don't enter into it. I find such an attitude rather alien. I am not a religious person, or anything. Far from it. But still, I try to lead a moral life, because it seems to be the right thing to do. And such things are not variable depending on the situation. Morals are morals. And if yours are optional, then I find that a bit sad.

 

It's alien to you because your not looking at it with the right point of view. People who use morals and ethics in deciding on buying a toy or not is not only stupid but has a negative effect on others as they tend to force their ideals on others and it drives others away from those persons like religion does. When in the end it all boils down to money and thus the economics of Supply and Demand, with the individual preference of how much the individual is willing to spend, because no one is the same. We are all different with different preferences. Your preferences are different from mine. I'm willing to shell out a little more then you, but I don't go nuts and save money where I can at the same time.

 

Do you really think business's like Takara and Hasbro care about Morals and ethics? No they only care about money.

 

Don't get me wrong I hate scalpers just as much as the next person. But most of the time you end up buying from a scalper. Some are just stupid with their prices. Others are not so bad. I paid $30 total for my Windcharger on eBay.

 

But here are a few reasons for Scalpers

 

1) The first Scalpers as I like to call them. They are the ones who get the product first sometimes months before any official release, you see their products go for a lot of money on eBay. Through no fault of theirs as they allow the bidders to raise the price themselves. Merely making a buck

 

2) Necessary Scalpers, they are the ones where, you decide at the last moment to go to let's say a football game, yet the game is sold out so you find a scalper, who generally sells tickets for about $30 more then they normally are. This falls on the consumer for delaying their purchase until the last minute. Same applies with buying a figure that is no longer at retail. You decide too late, that you want something and it is no longer in the store. So you will end up going to scalper also known as a reseller.

 

3) The Greedy Scalpers, these are the scalpers who at least double the price, buy buying as many of one product only to flip them to make as much off of the buyer as they can. Most of the time they end up having to drop their prices anyway. This falls on the Buyer and how much the buyer is willing to spend (the store buyers you mentioned)

4) The Stupid Scalper, One of my favorites because they are fun to laugh at. They generally buy a product and try to resale at least 4 times as much as what they paid. They mark it so high that no one buys, and after a while they end up dropping the price down to more reasonable resale levels.

 

5) The Smart Scalper, the ones who buy a few of one product and put them away for a few years, hoping their investment pays off down the road do to inflation and supply and demand. Simple Economics plays with this scalper. They will only resale when the product reaches the demand they are are hoping to cash in at. If not, they will try to unload at about $2 over the cost they paid.

 

In all of this, it falls on the buyer and what the buyers price is. No morals no ethics, simple economics of Supply and Demand with the individual.

 

Now one way to combat the greedy scalpers is don't even talk to them, instead you go to another store, don't just go to one store then go to scalper, they can't hit all the stores before you. Shop online at a retail store, most of the time what you are looking for is online at a retail stores website, Or my favorite go to Walmart at 2:00 am on Sunday mornings. There are so many ways to avoid the greedy scalpers. When I go on a local hunt I hit 20 stores in 5 hours. The only one I normally have problems at it Target.

 

But regardless if this helps or not. Scalpers are needed as they are merely resellers who are out to make a buck and want to find that one person who is willing to pay the amount they want. most of the time they end up dropping the price though

 

Necessary Scalpers are a little harder t o avoid, but the ybest way to avoid them is by not waiting until the last minute

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And I don't consider the W-Set to be TFs... they are Diaclone reissues in TF packaging. That is, unless, there is some story that comes with it that figured out somehow to put Waruder into the TF universe.

The Diaclone Waruders are part of the Transformers universe, but the eHobby Insecticons are. After all, the core difference with many pre-TFs and TFs is the packaging, not all pre-TFs were repainted. :)

 

Plus, we live in a (mostly) capitalist world so if someone has the cash then why not?

Depends on your moral/ethical values. Consequentialists, egoists, teleologicists etc. would probably agree with that statement. Deontologists, altruists and arguably utilitarianists and maybe virtue ethicists may disagree.

 

Again, because we're ethics and morality are completely subjective notions, there's no clear-cut 'right' or 'wrong' here, it entirely depends on your moral/ethical outlook. It depends on whether or not you think that the ends justify the means or if you believe that the ends can never justify the means.

 

I don't find much merit in the practice myself, but that's just because I'd like to spend my cash on new molds.

That too. :D Also, it would take up more space!

 

It would be unfair to brand someone as unethical just because they want to army build.

I never said anyone was unethical for wanting to army build.

 

I said that it seems or feels greedy to me, but I never actually said that it was greedy. "Greed" is defined as "excessive desire to possess..." <---but how do you define "excessive"? Religions like Buddhism and Jedi would define any form of material desire as the pathway to greed - but other religions like Sith would argue that to deny one's own passions is a personal moral injustice (egoism).

 

The closest I'd come to declaring an ethical breach would be if the sole intention of buying the multiples was to scalp them. That may still fall under the banner of capitalism, but it's still a shitty practice.

I also hate scalping and find it an abhorrent practice, but this is because it's something that we object to because it goes against our ethical standards, and I swear if I ever saw someone scalping in a store I'd repeatedly kick him in the janglies. But for scalpers it's probably NOT something that they personally find objectionable. See below (re: ammorality).

 

How is scalping needed in our society? So if I try to go to a store and buy a toy, but I can't because someone else has bought all of them, but that person then turns around and says to me, "Hey, you wanted that toy? I'll sell it to you, and it will only cost twice what I paid for it!" how is that needed?

I absolutely agree.

 

The only justifications I can think of for scalping completely revolve around self-interested modes of ethics. I can't think of any unselfish justifications for scalping... if someone was genuinely interested in helping collectors, then they would sell those toys at the price they paid or maybe with a small 'commission' for their time, effort, fuel etc., but 'scalping' is generally considered to be when the item is resold at substantially above the market or retail price. I don't mind if someone buys a toy on sale and sells it at the regular retail price -- I don't like this practice either, but I don't dislike it like I would with someone who would buy a toy on sale and then mark the price above RRP.

 

I'm a firm believer that sellers should never charge above RRP and consumers should never pay above RRP.

 

I suppose I could see a slight benefit in the case of a store exclusive if it is at a store that isn't available nationally. Although, seriously, the best example I can think of right now would be poor Windcharger, and he is going for rediculous prices on eBay. I would have never paid that much for him, and instead I am indebted to another member of these forums who was kind enough to pick one up and send it to me for cost plus S&H. I would not have even minded if he had asked for a little extra for his troubles... but the $40 to $50 I see being asked for him on eBay... That's not a needed thing. That is mean people taking advantage of a situation, and I feel bad for the people who find it necessary to pay such prices because they have no other options.

Yeah but that's not really scalping. Just to make it clear...

 

scalp /skælp/

verb

Colloquial

a. to resell merchandise at higher the official rate.

b. to buy and sell stocks so as to make small quick profits <---so by this definition charging twice the RRP would be MAJOR scalping if regular scalping is a "small" profit (-_-)

 

If someone buys me a toy and charges me close to what they themselves paid for it, I don't consider that scalping. That's just paying someone back. I'll often round a price up to also give that person a little bit extra for their effort, like if a toy is $28, I'll just pay $30. And likewise I'll ask the same when I grab stuff for other people -- I'm not gonna split hairs. Although I find some Japanese fans like to split hairs and make sure everything's paid correctly right down to the correct Yen... it takes some time to tell some Japanese fans that if a toy costs 2870JPY, I'm more than happy to pay them 3000JPY and they can keep the 130JPY change!! Go buy a Coke and keep the 30JPY change for some candy or something! :P

 

Of course, my argument is probably based on those silly morals and ethics that you say don't enter into it. I find such an attitude rather alien. I am not a religious person, or anything. Far from it. But still, I try to lead a moral life, because it seems to be the right thing to do. And such things are not variable depending on the situation. Morals are morals. And if yours are optional, then I find that a bit sad.

That's another point that hasn't been raised in either this or the other TF ethics thread... I've been thinking about all these different schools of morality and ethics and it escaped my mind that there are some people who either override their own sense of morality or just do NOT have a sense of morality at all (and whether you think that's good or bad is a matter of opinion - I'm not saying it is or isn't).

 

People generally fall into one of the following 3 categories:

+ Moral: Moral people have a sense of what they think is right or wrong and they try to do what they think is right.

+ Immoral: Immoral people have a sense of right and wrong, but in spite of this they still do what they believe is wrong.

+ Amoral: Amoral people don't believe in right or wrong. Also known as moral nihilism, amorality believes;

1. There are no moral features in this world: nothing is right or wrong.

2. Therefore no moral judgements are true

3. Sincere moral judgements try but fail to describe the moral features of things.

 

I'll give you an example from Star Wars...

 

Luke Skywalker: Moral. Has a sense of right and wrong and tries to do what he thinks is right.

Darth Vader: Immoral. Has a sense of right and wrong but ended up doing what he believed was wrong (hence the internal moral conflict).

Emperor Palpatine: Amoral. He thinks the idea of right and wrong is bollocks - he just does what he wants to do to further his own self interests.

 

Amorality is often PERCEIVED to be "true evil" <---again, this is a subjective perception, not a fact.

But with a moral person, even if that person's morals are completely opposite to your own morals, at least they're doing that they genuinely think is the right thing to do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suppose I could see a slight benefit in the case of a store exclusive if it is at a store that isn't available nationally. Although, seriously, the best example I can think of right now would be poor Windcharger, and he is going for rediculous prices on eBay. I would have never paid that much for him, and instead I am indebted to another member of these forums who was kind enough to pick one up and send it to me for cost plus S&H. I would not have even minded if he had asked for a little extra for his troubles... but the $40 to $50 I see being asked for him on eBay... That's not a needed thing. That is mean people taking advantage of a situation, and I feel bad for the people who find it necessary to pay such prices because they have no other options.

Yeah but that's not really scalping.

 

Sorry, wasn't trying to say the chap who helped me out was scalping. Clearly he wasn't. If he had charged the "little extra for his troubles" I'd mentioned, then he would technically have been... but at least not being a dick about it. It is the people charging obscene amounts on eBay I talk about who are doing the scalping, and are indeed being dicks about it.

 

when did this turn into a phylosophy discussion?

 

Well, any thread with "Ethics" in the subject line certainly has the potential to. :tflaugh

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, I'm bored already. The last thing we need is ANOTHER thread debating the merits of scalping.

And "Jedi" and "Sith" is no more a religion "Transformers" is, however much we wish them to be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The last thing we need is ANOTHER thread debating the merits of scalping.

That wasn't actually the initial intention of this thread. This thread started off talking about the practice of collecting multiples for yourself. Like the dude I know who has over 15 Generation Scourges (and at least one United Scourge - possibly more). I also know someone who has five Lio Kaisers. FIVE. Why on Earth would someone need five Lio Kaisers?? I could maybe understand 3 so you could display them in each different mode (individual robots, vehicles, gestalt)... but 5?! And he doesn't even display them in different mode... he doesn't display them at all. He keeps most of his toys including his Lio Kaisers in storage.

 

When does collecting become hoarding??

 

I personally don't mind if people want to expand the discussion of collecting multiples into discussing scalping too - but the primary theme of this thread is meant to be about collecting multiples for yourself and not necessarily scalping.

 

And "Jedi" and "Sith" is no more a religion "Transformers" is, however much we wish them to be.

It's unfortunate that the Jedi faith suffers religious persecution. :( The Transformers Faith has yet to achieve the level of sectarianism that the Jedi faith has, but we're getting there. And just because a religion doesn't enjoy legal recognition doesn't make it any more or less valid than any other religion that does enjoy legal recognition. After all, even Christianity wasn't legally recognised and was persecuted during its early history. And unfortunately we still live in an age where people continue to wage wars in the name of their religious beliefs. :( Besides, as much as Jedi and Trekkies may dislike each other, I've yet to see anyone kill someone in the name of Skywalker or Kirk... although it'd be pretty damn cool to watch! ;) :D

 

"Ni'tokor bak'to!"2738867068_34a09f3770.jpg"Bantha Pudu!"

 

"Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance."

- The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 18

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, the scalping discussion has been done to death. The hoarding angle is marginally more interesting, but that opens up things to a debate regarding mental illness so we'd probably have to tread carefully there.

With regard to the so called "religious persecution", I love how the people who take this stuff to seriously are infinitely willing to martyr themselves. No one is persecuting a faith here. You may admire the qualities embodied by the Jedi order (or the Sith for that matter) and have a desire to emulate those qualities but that doesn't make it religion. Who honestly would want it to? If ANYTHING can be then EVERYTHING can be religion, and everybody can cry persecution all that is really happening is a simple difference of opinion.

I mean, if I tell someone I grew up admiring Optimus Prime and try to adhere to the values he represents (and I do) I could be met with a wide range of reactions. Some would understand, others would not. Invoking religion just takes it to a whole other level, which is fine if you feel that strongly about it. You have to be prepared for the fact it'll raise a couple eyebrows though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
  • Create New...
Sign Up For The TNI Newsletter And Have The News Delivered To You!


Entertainment News International (ENI) is the #1 popular culture network for adult fans all around the world.
Get the scoop on all the popular comics, games, movies, toys, and more every day!

Contact and Support

Advertising | Submit News | Contact ENI | Privacy Policy

©Entertainment News International - All images, trademarks, logos, video, brands and images used on this website are registered trademarks of their respective companies and owners. All Rights Reserved. Data has been shared for news reporting purposes only. All content sourced by fans, online websites, and or other fan community sources. Entertainment News International is not responsible for reporting errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and or other liablities related to news shared here. We do our best to keep tabs on infringements. If some of your content was shared by accident. Contact us about any infringements right away - CLICK HERE