to mature....

[WereFox2009]

Everything changes and matures over time, even in G1 Ironhide and Kup have matured and changed over time, bumble bee has gone from a youthful, quick witted, and snarky scout to a more mature frontline fighter (I actually love the idea that one day the decepticons get tired of bumle bee's mouth and shut him up for good and with that making him more cautious, but more of a warrior as well.). So who else needs an update, or who has matured the best over time? I'll start us off...

 

Prime: big let down... Prime didn't need power armor, he didn't need to combine with anyone he was perfect a combo of john wayne and sparticus. Prime fought in the frontlines and went hand to hand many time with his ax. Prime didn't need to change.

 

Bumble bee: well we already know my opinion.

[Markusius]

You talking Movieverse?

 

What? Power armor on Prime is one of my favorites. There will always be someone bigger and a powered up mode helps out when needed.

[Jason X]

Yeah, can you better define the parameters of the discussion? If it's just how the depiction of a character has evolved from G1 to DOTM that's a little broad. Based on that though I have to say I like where Mirage wound up, not so much in the movie (although I like him there too) but he was awesome in the DOTM prequel game. It was great going invisible to stealth kill 'cons!

[Lord_Onslaught]

I would say Sideswipe has matured also into a great fighter, and he doesn't mess around he would rather take down the Decepticon then talk, like he would before.

 

I also like how Optimus has matured and willing to take more risks even if he has gotten darker. It shows what neverending war will do to a person

[Goktimus Prime]

Physical upgrades isn't really maturity... it's just a weapons upgrade. ;) I mean, it's not as if Optimus Prime became wiser when he combined with Jetfire or when he strapped on his Jetwingalings (and conversely he didn't get less mature when he took those upgrades off).

 

My pick would be Cheetor. In season 1 of Beast Wars he started off as this immature kid character, like a cross between Hot Rod and Bumblebee. Like Hot Rod Cheetor was rash, impulsive and sometimes hotheaded. Like Bumblebee Cheetor was eager to prove his worth to his comrades, and this sometimes landed him in trouble. In season 2 he was less impulsive, but still a little kid at heart (I loved the scene when the prospects of returning to Cybertron seemed possible; Cheetor dreamed of going to Cybertronian amusement parks while Rattrap wanted to hit seedy strip clubs :P). By season 3 Cheetor had grown out of his 'youthful innocence' and took on a darker edge - or as Rattrap said, "Oh joy... Cyber-puberty." So he'd basically grown from a child to an adolescent. In Beast Machines he had outgrown his adolescent phase and become a young adult - kinda like someone who's just graduated and trying to start out in the workforce - that stage in your life where you know you're capable, but you lack experience, and you desperately want to gain experience and opportunities to demonstrate your competence. Cheetor finally did get his opportunity when Cheetor assumed command of the Maximals when Optimus Primal was presumed KIA... and even his fellow Maximals admitted that he did lead them well. Then things got interesting when Optimus Primal returned and the two leaders' different styles of leadership created conflict.

 

Cheetor is like the Beast Era's equivalent of Hot Rod/Rodimus Prime, but better. Why? Because he grew into maturity. Hot Rod only became the mature Rodimus Prime because of a Cosmic MacGuffin. And whenever he lost possession of the MacGuffin he'd revert back to becoming the less mature Hot Rod again... <sigh> Cheetor's maturity never relied on a mystical MacGuffin - it wasn't externally induced, it was internal - which is what true character development is. Ultra gear!! :D

[Noisemaze75]

hot shot from the Unicron trilogy......he fits the cheetor description goki used...at the start of the series he was an immature child...as the series progressed he learned from his mistakes and became a fitting and reliable soldier...one of my favorite Unicron trilogy characters..

[WereFox2009]

I was making a point in that Prime was mature and though he has changed slightly over time prime always had it in him to defeat Megatron from the start, it was clear in the animated movie that the final straw was the attack on autobot city, it pushed prime over the edge and he took on Megatron knowing only one would walk away....

Since then prime has been made to look weak and less mature. While the books and comics have made it a point to show how prime had matured into that great leader from G1. I mean think back to the comic where prime is watching the destruction of L.A. and takes on devastator on his own AND wins!!! Its just the soldier he IS. He doesn't need gimmicks to be better he already is the best. I'm not saying he has't had help along the way nor does prime ever forget who helped him become who he is/was, countless times he makes refferences to soldiers who helped and advised him early on. What I'm trying to say is if the molds not broken, don't try to fix it.

 

Oh and the main theme of this topic was maturity and altering I character- should it be done and if it is done? I kinda got rushed nearthe end, but I see most of you knew what I meant. Also... I have always saw G1 prime as being so much like my dad I couldn't help but feel wronged when they try to turn him into some power ranger knock off. My dad was old and wise from before I was born, even though he was raised in a period when racism and predjudice were everyday things... He taught me to respect everyone for who they were not what color their skin was or how they lived their life. He also taught me that when a person can't help themselves that it is the job of those who can to help those who can't... When he died of lung cancer more then just family showed up at the funeral... It was like a piece of the community died and the town itself was in morning... Even today 10yrs later people will look at me and tell me of the things my dad did... Its no wonder I see him everytime I see prime... Who else can compare?

 

"freedom is the right of every sentient being" -- Optimus Prime

 

"true happiness comes from knowing you've done what you can for others each day..." -- JHW my dad...

[Goktimus Prime]

That's a beautiful story about your father. Thank you for sharing that with us. :)

 

Optimus Prime in G1 was, especially in the cartoon, a fairly shallow and one dimensional caricature. Actually, most of the Transformers in the G1 cartoons were one dimensional caricatures - a bunch of archetypes rather than actual characters. Optimus Prime was the typical Christ-like Messiah/Saviour Archetype. Flawless and willing to always sacrifice himself for others as the ultimate altruist. This sadly made him a fairly uninteresting character because what makes a character interesting isn't just their strengths and abilities, but also their flaws and weaknesses. What makes them "human."

 

Look at Superman - the guy's practically a god. But he has weaknesses, and I don't mean just his physical vulnerabilities to things like Voldemort with a Kryptonite encrusted wand! (a Kryptonite-enhanced stupify spell may very well kill Kal-El!) What I mean is things like his emotional vulnerabilities - the way he struggles in his relationship with people like Lois Lane. One of the most powerful moments in the first Superman movie was when his father died and Clark felt utterly impotent ("All the things I can do... all my powers... and I couldn't even save him."). And of course, when Lex Luthor tormented him by sending two nuclear missiles and giving Superman the cruel choice - save the woman he loves, or save the people. Superman wanted to save Lois, but in the end he had to save the people (the needs of the many blah blah blah).

 

Optimus Prime in the G1 comics was occasionally demonstrated as having internal conflicts or flaws to flesh his character out, e.g.:

+ In his youth his misjudgement led to Boltax being killed and the Underbase to be lost to space.

+ He was at times shown to be burdened with the guilt of having brought the Cybertronian's war to Earth and the inhabitants of Earth often became victims.

+ He also felt guilt about the environmental impact that their war had on Earth - as demonstrated when he ordered the Rescue Patrol to break off their fight with Whisper because of the loss of habitat that the fight was causing - he then used a precious portion of the Matrix to restore the forest that had been damaged (which had originally intended to use to revive one of his fallen Autobots).

+ Prime suffered from post traumatic stress/depression after Ratchet was presumed KIA which led to im doubting himself so much that he decided to leave the Autobots.

 

But some other Optimuses who did get character development/maturity include:

 

+ Optimus Primal. He matured from starting off an explorer (as the captain of an expeditionary crew) into becoming a military leader. Primal never chose to be a combatant, but he was forced into it. He struggled in the beginning (suffering insubordination from the likes of Rattrap and Dinobot), but he soon earned their respect. But it was never an easy task for him - and he certainly made his fair share of mistakes (especially with an opponent as wily as BW Megatron). Even toward the end we saw him emotionally break down for a while after Tigerhawk was killed (experiencing the loss of Tigatron and Airazor again). His character development went pear-shaped in Beast Machines unfortunately (IMO). :(

 

+ Optimus Prime, The War Within. I like how he started off as being a non-comatant who was reluctantly given the mantle of leadership after Sentinel Prime was killed. And it took him time to find his feet as Autobot leader.

 

+ Optimus Prime, IDW (Orion Pax). I like how he's shown as being this dedicated police captain working for a corrupt and decadent Cybertronian ruling elite. And it was after he read Megatron's manifesto that made him look outside his square and at the bigger picture - making him question the institution for which he loyally served... ultimately planting the seeds into changing him to become the resolute Optimus Prime of present day. Ironic that it was really Megatron who made Optimus Prime who he is. :) I reckon there should be a line in Megatron's manifesto that says "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" ;)

 

"How do we get rid of you?" - Orion Pax (to the Cybertronian Senate)

[Jason X]

I've really appreciated the depiction of the yin and yang nature of the Optimus/Megatron rivalry in recent IDW issues.

[Goktimus Prime]

I think Beast Machines did better with the Yin/Yang thing between Optimus/Megatron, Maximal/Vehicon, Organic/Technological, Individual-freedom/peace-through-tyranny etc. Still doesn't undo the crappiness of Beast Machines, but it's definitely there. :) Beast Machines was too mature (not to mention dark and brooding) and forgot to make Transformers fun and entertaining for kids. And it was just a poor sequel to Beast Wars IMHO.