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Transformer Consumer Ethics


Goktimus Prime

Transformer Consumer Ethics 1  

37 members have voted

  1. 1. What is your policy on unlicensed toys?

    • I don't buy unlicensed toys
    • I buy 3rd Party items, but I don't buy counterfeits
    • I buy counterfeits, but I don't buy 3rd Party items
      0
    • I only buy 3rd party accessories, but not 3rd party figures
    • Ethics?! As long as my wants are met I don't care who makes my toys (I have no compunction against unlicensed toys)
    • Other (please specify)


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Honestly this thread does need to be locked as the repeat posts has begun.

 

When people stop repeating themselves, this thread will die out naturally :)

 

Can't help it, sometimes you need to repeat with some of these people before that actually stop with their narrow window of view and maybe see what is really going on and finally back off again ;)

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i agree with the car argument....look at the universe lambo brothers mold...cybertron crosswise....to many to count...its definitely a legit argument....good call...

 

I believe I said this earlier in the thread, but there is a 10% rule. If you put 10% or more differentiation in the mold to distance it from the real life item, then that's considered legal. Take a closer look at Crosswise or Sideswipe (or DOTM Sideways for that matter). If you compare it to the vehicle they're modeled after, there is just enough differentiation to be considered within legal scope.

 

Honestly this thread does need to be locked as the repeat posts has begun.

 

When people stop repeating themselves, this thread will die out naturally :)

 

Can't help it, sometimes you need to repeat with some of these people before that actually stop with their narrow window of view and maybe see what is really going on and finally back off again ;)

 

I'll give you that. But at some point you will bore of the merry-go-round and go looking for another ride. ;) Eventually, the merry-go-round will shut down.

 

The fact that the thread is in a vicious circle is no cause to lock it. Imagine all the complaints I'd get for stamping out people's rights to opinion if I did lock it.

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i agree with the car argument....look at the universe lambo brothers mold...cybertron crosswise....to many to count...its definitely a legit argument....good call...

 

I believe I said this earlier in the thread, but there is a 10% rule. If you put 10% or more differentiation in the mold to distance it from the real life item, then that's considered legal. Take a closer look at Crosswise or Sideswipe (or DOTM Sideways for that matter). If you compare it to the vehicle they're modeled after, there is just enough differentiation to be considered within legal scope.

 

Honestly this thread does need to be locked as the repeat posts has begun.

 

When people stop repeating themselves, this thread will die out naturally :)

 

Can't help it, sometimes you need to repeat with some of these people before that actually stop with their narrow window of view and maybe see what is really going on and finally back off again ;)

 

I'll give you that. But at some point you will bore of the merry-go-round and go looking for another ride. ;) Eventually, the merry-go-round will shut down.

 

The fact that the thread is in a vicious circle is no cause to lock it. Imagine all the complaints I'd get for stamping out people's rights to opinion if I did lock it.

 

However there can not be a fair debate if not all parties involved read what the others are saying ;)

Especially when one side of it has taken the others argument and slammed it through the floor with facts, Maybe they just don't want to see it :tflaugh

 

But then that doesn't shock me either :D

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I believe I said this earlier in the thread, but there is a 10% rule. If you put 10% or more differentiation in the mold to distance it from the real life item, then that's considered legal. Take a closer look at Crosswise or Sideswipe (or DOTM Sideways for that matter). If you compare it to the vehicle they're modeled after, there is just enough differentiation to be considered within legal scope.

Do you think that 10% applies to the igear seekers? The difference in the transformation in the legs specifically. I wonder if that would keep HasTak off of igear with those being such an obvious copy of their masterpiece mold.

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That's why I asked you earlier what you base your ethics on. If others don't have the same foundation for their ethics as you, how can you expect them to agree with you?

I don't expect anyone to agree with me! :)

 

All I've done in this thread is state my opinion and provided reasons for why I have my opinions. But my opinions are just that - my opinions. And just like opinions, ethics and morality are completely subjective notions -- I make NO pretence that they're not. So nobody can say that collecting knockoffs is objectively right or wrong or good or evil -- the very concepts of good, right, wrong, evil are all subjective anyway, based on people's personal values and standards.

 

I have my own personal values and standards, and according to my personal values/standards I consider it wrong for myself to purchase unlicensed Transformer toys. That doesn't mean that I'm saying that it's wrong for anyone else to do it, because other people may not share my same values. Just because I'm describing my values and beliefs doesn't mean that I'm prescribing them. It's not as if I'm presenting my values or opinions as if they were absolute gospel truth. There is never any singular truth when it comes to examining things that are inherently subjective.

 

In fact, it looks like nobody else here does because according to the poll I'm the only person who voted on the first option! According to the poll results so far, from most to least popular it seems we have:

+ 45% of us buy 3rd party items but don't buy counterfeits

+ 33% of us have no compunctions against unlicensed toys

+ 15% of us hold different values not specified in other poll options ('other')

+ 3% of us only buy 3rd party accessories but not 3rd party figures.

+ 3% of us don't buy unlicensed toys <---I'm that 3% :P

+ 0% of us buy counterfeits but don't buy 3rd party products

 

Now just because an opinion is less popular doesn't make it better or worse than those which are more popular and vice versa. But as far as a general consensus is concerned, it seems that at least within the community represented by members of this forum, most people agree with 3rd party items but disagree with KOs.

 

So based on Goktimus' arguments of the ethics against 3rd party and KO toys, he should cease collecting official Transformers that have an alt mode similar to a licensed vehicle, unless Hasbro/Takara actually did have permission to use it...

Have you ever spoken with a Hasbro exec about how incredibly anally retentive their legal department is?? Or just look at some of the crazy stuff Hasbro does to skirt around trademarks and other legal issues, like all the character names that had to be modified because of legal issues. For example, Jazz is usually called "Autobot Jazz," but for Alternators he had to be called "Meister" because with Alternators, because the toyline isn't just an action figure line, but also replica car line, it falls under a different set of copyright/trademark laws which are different from the laws that dictate just action figures like Universe, Animated etc. - as a result the toy wasn't allowed to be called "Jazz" and even "Autobot Jazz" was disapproved by Hasbro's legal dept., so they went with "Meister." If you look at any of the movie toys, where the alt modes are based on licensed vehicle modes, you'll see the actual logos of those automotive companies on the packaging, e.g. Top Spin's card has the NASCAR logo, Bumblebee has the GM logo etc.

 

Hasbro's legal department are VERY tight on what they can and can't legally do. The alt mode for Universe Sunstreaker/Sideswipe/Red Alert borrows elements from a Lamborghini Diablo, Lamborghini Gallardo, 2004 Murciélago R-GT, and McLaren F1. If Hasbro ever used an alt mode, insufficiently modified, and without permission, then they would be in a world of legal trouble. And Hasbro are very paranoid about avoiding this, to the point that they sometimes NEEDLESSLY do things - stupid things - to avoid even potentially being sued. Like calling Grapple "Grappel"... there's legally NO need for them to do this.

 

But anyway, I've always assumed that Transformer toys have had their alt modes acquired either through legal licensing or if they've modified it sufficiently that it doesn't require licensing. My rule with collecting Transformers is that I only purchase toys that are manufactured under licence from Hasbro/Takara - because that is legally what qualifies as a Transformer toy (i.e. a toy that is part of Hasbro's Transformers brand). And this isn't my subjective opinion, this is an objective fact. Things like Pre-Transformers, 3rd party items, KOs etc., individual fans may consider them to be Transformers - but that's purely subjective. The fact is that those toys are all NOT part of Hasbro's Transformers brand. I mean, I have the Battle Beast equivalent of "White Leo," but because it's a Hasbro Battle Beast and not a Takara Beastformer, it's legitimately NOT part of the Transformers Brand. If I had the Japanese version - same toy, then yes, it would be part of the Transformers Brand because Takara marketed the Beastformers as part of the Transformers brand.

 

Having said that, I got "White Leo" second hand from a flea market... so since I've never seen the packaging it COULD be a Japanese Beastformer... but odds are that it's a Hasbro Battle Beast, so unless I can prove it otherwise I'm assuming it's a Battle Beast and I won't 'officially' consider it to be a Transformer. Having said that I do display it on my Transformers 1987 Autobot shelf, right next to Fortress Maximus. :) He's a Not-Beastformer. :P

 

I believe I said this earlier in the thread, but there is a 10% rule. If you put 10% or more differentiation in the mold to distance it from the real life item, then that's considered legal. Take a closer look at Crosswise or Sideswipe (or DOTM Sideways for that matter). If you compare it to the vehicle they're modeled after, there is just enough differentiation to be considered within legal scope.

It probably varies depending on what it is. Copyright and trademark laws differ depending on context. For example, Alternators fell under a different jurisdiction from other Transformer toys because they also fell under the category of being replica cars and not just action figures. There isn't one blanket intellectual property law that covers everything.

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Gok why don't you stop already? you lost another debate, and believe it or not you are actually advocating 3rd party and knock offs by buying Transformers.

It's already been shown that Hasbro and Takara both act like 3rd parties and knock off makers. If you need anymore proof look at the Kreo's which are an obvious knock off of Legos

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Gok why don't you stop already? you lost another debate, and believe it or not you are actually advocating 3rd party and knock offs by buying Transformers.

It's already been shown that Hasbro and Takara both act like 3rd parties and knock off makers. If you need anymore proof look at the Kreo's which are an obvious knock off of Legos

 

Yep. Hasbro even added little things here and there to the pieces in order to make sure they didn't copy the design of Lego bricks, even thought they basically look like Lego.

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I'd get them, if I had the money to... want the aftermarket parts for G1 predaking. and also the 3rd party sixshot when it comes out.

even the new non insecticons.

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