Jump to content

How About An Ultimate Combiner?


madman1366

Recommended Posts

I was noticing on the package of a Batman figure the other day that said "ADULT COLLECTORS" where the age recommendation is. I guess another question, WHAT IF Hasbro put out a voyager class combiner with a similar tag...or for ages 13+ just because Hasbro HATES the idea of collectors only lines?

 

Now thinking it over more, I would think even a large combiner like this would likely break apart should it fall. I don't think any fall damage would be much worse than having any other large figure fall them. Most of the arms and legs would probably just fall harmlessly to the side. Well, maybe not so harmless to the toy anyway.

 

So I think it could be done. Safety and all. Again though, it's all up to whatever Hasbro decides they want to do.

 

 

I don't mean to gripe on the safety issues, I just think Hasbro has hidden behind that excuse as a shield for simply not wanting to do certain things over the years. This is where Hasbro could use more meaningful contact with the fandom. If there was more open 2 way communication going on then I think we could have seen a lot more over the years than what we have.

 

A bunch of a adults who think like kids can give some vastly better insights than a bunch of designers paid to try and figure out what kids want.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 30
  • Created
  • Last Reply

I was noticing on the package of a Batman figure the other day that said "ADULT COLLECTORS" where the age recommendation is. I guess another question, WHAT IF Hasbro put out a voyager class combiner with a similar tag...or for ages 13+ just because Hasbro HATES the idea of collectors only lines?

I think there is some truth in what you say about Hasbro not being keen on collector-only lines actually.

 

A very visible example of this is with some of Hasbro's G1 reissues. In Japan, the G1 reissues are marketed at collectors, as are other mature age collector lines like Binaltech, Binaltech Asterisk, Alternity, KISS Play, Device Label, Sport Label, Music Label, Masterpiece etc. That's why on the back or bottom of their boxes are the words "For Ages 15 and Up." Hasbro refuses to do this. They insist on marketing all their toys to children; even if collectors are considered too, they certainly won't exclude children for the sake of collectors.

 

This is why Japanese reissues will have short missiles with full powered missile launchers, because their marketing excludes kids (and therefore exempts them from child safety laws). Hasbro won't do this, which is why their reissues have either:

+ Stupid ugly looking over-sized missiles, or...

+ Normal looking missiles but the launch mechanism has been removed. <--- I prefer this option

 

The only time Hasbro ever develops collector-centric toys are with BotCon exclusives, and even then it's fairly cheap for them because they always use existing moulds. Their toys are all either straight up repaints of existing moulds or a slight retool of an existing mould that is repainted. There is very minimal R&D required, if any at all. And even then these exclusive toys are VERY expensive because they're produced in limited numbers. Japanese exclusives usually cost the same retail price as the regular version of that mould, but to be fair, that's because there's no retooling involved. BotCon exclusives are expensive to cover the cost of retooling a mould for a limited run, which is understandable.

 

We've never seen Hasbro pump out a single whole new toy for the collector-exclusive market... let alone an entire set! Let alone an entire set that can transform and combine!! The only possible exception might be that exclusive movie Transformer that you had to buy a brand new car in order to receive it! :P

 

Now thinking it over more, I would think even a large combiner like this would likely break apart should it fall. I don't think any fall damage would be much worse than having any other large figure fall them. Most of the arms and legs would probably just fall harmlessly to the side. Well, maybe not so harmless to the toy anyway.

 

So I think it could be done. Safety and all. Again though, it's all up to whatever Hasbro decides they want to do.

 

I don't mean to gripe on the safety issues, I just think Hasbro has hidden behind that excuse as a shield for simply not wanting to do certain things over the years. This is where Hasbro could use more meaningful contact with the fandom. If there was more open 2 way communication going on then I think we could have seen a lot more over the years than what we have.

 

A bunch of a adults who think like kids can give some vastly better insights than a bunch of designers paid to try and figure out what kids want.

I agree that Hasbro's communication with the fandom could be a lot better. Hasbro does actually look at online conversations on forums from time to time... and let's face it, they would have to sift through reading a lot of irrelevant and impractical suggestions in order to find suggestions that are worth paying attention to. Another good idea is to employ staff on their design/creative team who are actually TF fans themselves - and Hasbro has been doing this. We've seen a lot of their input into stuff like Animated and Generations... but ultimately they still have to conform to things like budgetry constraints (Hasbro budgets every last drop of paint), safety standards and other requirements like insisting on putting a stupid electronic sound gimmick into a toy (so the designers have to work around it *sigh*). But ultimately it's also about leadership too... Transformers' direction under Archer has long suffered from sporadic inconsistency and a lack of focus. Just look at the DotM Wreckers...

+ Deluxe Roadbuster: normal vehicle

+ Deluxe Top Spin: attack vehicle

+ Legions Top Spin: normal vehicle

+ Legions Leadfoot: attack vehicle

...huh?? (o_O)

 

Here Hasbro, have some Ritalin...

 

I don't think safety's much of an issue with new or recent mould - it's more of an issue with vintage moulds like G1. Fortress Maximus complied with safety standards in 1987, but that mould no longer complies with US safety standards today because of the current drop test. The mould does still comply with Japanese toy safety standards though (since Brave Maximus was marketed at kids).

 

But one serious issue with creating brand new moulds as a limited collectors run is price. A BotCon exclusive Deluxe currently costs about $50 - and that's just a repaint, but it's also to cover the cost of the moulds that are retooled. So based on that, I'd say it wouldn't be too hard to imagine that in an entirely newly fabricated mould for a collector focused limited run, we could see a Deluxe figure cost $100. Would you pay $100 for a Deluxe? I sure as hell wouldn't... I don't care how limited or exclusive it is!

 

But then again, maybe I'm in the minority. There seems to be plenty of collectors who'd pay higher prices for 3rd party items which are expensive for similar reasons (i.e. limited run); so if these same collectors are willing to shell out for exclusive toys produced in limited numbers by Hasbro, then maybe they'd have a case. <shrug> But see, a lot of people SAY they'd pay for a special toy, but when Hasbro delivers, not everyone would follow suit. For example, before Hasbro Australia imported Jetwing Optimus Prime here, they specifically asked collectors here if they would be willing to buy this toy - and they gave estimates of how much it would cost, so we knew it would be pretty expensive. Enough people said they'd buy it, so Hasbro went and imported it. This toy's still shelf warming. Now I don't know if collectors are completely to blame for this or if Hasbro just imported too many of them - because a few collectors wanted to be the first kids on the block to have this toy and snapped them up at full RRP from Myer, but others like me waited until they appeared cheaper at Big W, and the toys did sell fairly quickly from Big W and now there are none left there. But Jetwing Optimus Prime continues to shelfwarm at Target and TRU... but it could be because most collectors who agreed to get this toy did so from Myer and especially Big W, and the remaining stock at Target and TRU is what Hasbro's hoping the kiddies will soak up (which they very well may around Xmas).

 

At the end of the day, the kids are the primary consumer demographic... but that doesn't mean we can't have toys that kids will like and adults enjoy too -- Classics/Universe/Henkei/Generations/United/Reveal The Shield (CHUGUR) is a great example of this. :) That's really what I'd prefer anyway... collector-centric toys like Masterpiece tend to be less fun anyway (they're more like poseable statues rather than proper action figures... lame - I'd rather have proper action figures!).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is no guess work involved, Hasbro has said in the past that they would never cater or market any lines towards adult collectors. They have made it very clear that their action figures are all kids first, all the time no matter how many adults like them too. They said if you want something catered towards collectors then check out Takara for that.

 

 

I don't even suggest so much that they cater to collectors, but LISTEN more. Collectors are the greatest link between designers and kids. Is it hard to imagine that the exact things collectors LOVE in figures are the same exact things kids love too? Speaking of toys AND cartoons. I've always contended that Hasbro's problem with going after the kids market more was the fact that they kiddied them down TOO much and not even the kids liked it. Kids of action lines/cartoons I don't think appreciate things getting watered down. They'll turn away and go for the video games instead.

 

The movies gave us the most mature content ever seen in Transformers and it flourished. Say what you want about kids and the effects of these kinds of movies and what not, but that's a bigger issue for another time. With the realities of the world around us, these movies were small potatoes in terms of having too much for kids to see.

 

The point is simple. Kids are just tiny collectors. Just because they grow up, doesn't mean what they like in Transformers changes all that much. Only real difference is once growing up having a better vocabulary to properly describe those "improvements" that even the kids wanted to see. As much fun as we had as kids, one thing we ALWAYS did was throw ideas around of how certain figures could be better...playing the "wouldn't it be cool" game so to speak. Hell, I think we did that almost as much as we actually played with the toys.

 

 

Nobody can look at past Hasbro attempts to put out more collectors oriented products and draw any fair conclusions from it. Why? Because in nearly every case it was something released long before by Takara. When Takara gets 6 months to a years head start on major collectors figures then it's most certainly going to take a bite out of Hasbro's potential to make any big profits from it. It skews any chance of tracking the market interest.

 

Just ONCE, for the sake of curiosity, I'd like to see HASBRO release a masterpiece figure with no word of if or when Takara ever would. See how those suckers fly! Might provide Hasbro with quite the eye opener to see what could happen if they were first to the market with some more advanced type figures. Again though, Hasbro doesn't need to market it for adults...simply the 12-13+ group. Considering I don't think kids really start to "get" TF's (I mean from an understanding pov) until after they are 10 anyway, that wouldn't really cut anyone out.

 

And if Hasbro insists on keeping on trying to hook the younger kids, then I think they simply need to start creating more separate younger kids lines instead of trying to heard them into the one main line. That simply hasn't worked well. You would think success would translate to more creative freedom, yet for some reason Hasbro seems to fight against taking that road and generally keeps working within their rather small box.

 

Then again, it's probably the large gains from Star Wars and Transformers lines that keep some of their smaller, less profitable products on the shelves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is no guess work involved, Hasbro has said in the past that they would never cater or market any lines towards adult collectors. They have made it very clear that their action figures are all kids first, all the time no matter how many adults like them too. They said if you want something catered towards collectors then check out Takara for that.

What?!??!

 

I don't even suggest so much that they cater to collectors, but LISTEN more. Collectors are the greatest link between designers and kids. Is it hard to imagine that the exact things collectors LOVE in figures are the same exact things kids love too? Speaking of toys AND cartoons. I've always contended that Hasbro's problem with going after the kids market more was the fact that they kiddied them down TOO much and not even the kids liked it. Kids of action lines/cartoons I don't think appreciate things getting watered down. They'll turn away and go for the video games instead.

+1. All these ridiculous electronic gimmicks, dumbed down Cyber Stompers, non-transforming Rescue Bots etc... it's just insulting to kids. As G1 voice actor Michael McConnohie once said, kids are smarter than adults often give them credit for and HATE being talked down to.

 

The movies gave us the most mature content ever seen in Transformers and it flourished. Say what you want about kids and the effects of these kinds of movies and what not, but that's a bigger issue for another time. With the realities of the world around us, these movies were small potatoes in terms of having too much for kids to see.

...erm... depends on what you mean by "mature." There was a lot of immature elements in the movies... I personally found the G1 comics and Beast Wars to be the more mature things written for Transformers... Beast Machines was also very mature too (a bit too mature to engage kids actually).

 

The point is simple. Kids are just tiny collectors. Just because they grow up, doesn't mean what they like in Transformers changes all that much. Only real difference is once growing up having a better vocabulary to properly describe those "improvements" that even the kids wanted to see. As much fun as we had as kids, one thing we ALWAYS did was throw ideas around of how certain figures could be better...playing the "wouldn't it be cool" game so to speak. Hell, I think we did that almost as much as we actually played with the toys.

+1 QFT!

 

Nobody can look at past Hasbro attempts to put out more collectors oriented products and draw any fair conclusions from it. Why? Because in nearly every case it was something released long before by Takara. When Takara gets 6 months to a years head start on major collectors figures then it's most certainly going to take a bite out of Hasbro's potential to make any big profits from it. It skews any chance of tracking the market interest.

 

Just ONCE, for the sake of curiosity, I'd like to see HASBRO release a masterpiece figure with no word of if or when Takara ever would. See how those suckers fly! Might provide Hasbro with quite the eye opener to see what could happen if they were first to the market with some more advanced type figures. Again though, Hasbro doesn't need to market it for adults...simply the 12-13+ group. Considering I don't think kids really start to "get" TF's (I mean from an understanding pov) until after they are 10 anyway, that wouldn't really cut anyone out.

 

And if Hasbro insists on keeping on trying to hook the younger kids, then I think they simply need to start creating more separate younger kids lines instead of trying to heard them into the one main line. That simply hasn't worked well. You would think success would translate to more creative freedom, yet for some reason Hasbro seems to fight against taking that road and generally keeps working within their rather small box.

All excellent points. Although I personally quite like Transformer toys that are designed to appeal to both kids and adults alike, e.g. Classics/Universe/Generations/Reveal The Shield.

 

A well made toy that's intended for kids will appeal to adults too. Look at Car Robot/RiD... those figures were intended for kids, but adult collectors loved them. If they make toys which are 'dumbed down,' then adults get turned off because it doesn't engage them as adults, and kids get turned off too because they feel that the toy is "talking down" to them, and fails to engage them as children! (being a child isn't the same as being retarded!! As you said, they're basically just still-developing adults!)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's also the flip side to things where companies like CM's Corp. do the exact OPPOSITE:

 

Collector items that are designed with no amount of play, stability or endurance, creating very weak pieces for the sake of "accuracy" that are complete ripoffs due to their tendencies to break or get super loose. Those abominations are not worth anywhere near their price points, as they are not designed with any kind of tactile function taken into account making them little more than statues. Their pictures are worth more than they are, simply because those will LAST.

 

:fire

 

 

It frustrates me because the middle ground between "kiddy shit" and "collector's shit" where decent toys exist is so damn tiny, most designs I want in toy form never hit it.

 

This is one reason I like Transformers, they usually tend to hit that middle ground, even if not as exactly as I would like.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess for those who haven't been around as long, I should clarify or try to inform you as best I can in a nutshell of what the relationship has been like between the fans and collectors over the years.

 

Back when I got into collecting, Hasbro really had little to no interest in adult collectors. They thought of us as more of a nuisance than anything else. I really don't think they had a clue at that point of how deep the fandom went. Often times, statements made by Hasbro seemed like they resented adult collectors more than anything. They would always make sure to remind people that their figures were designed for and meant for kids and if the adults didn't like them, then don't buy them. Hasbro wanted to get into younger age brackets as well, especially during Armada and Energon. Cybertron was about the time that Hasbro first began to really show signs that they were paying more attention towards the fandom.

 

Reissues were the first bone thrown at us. Those started at the end of Armada I believe. However, Hasbro never seemed to really embrace the idea of them even though they did continue for awhile. Next came Alternators and MP. With those Hasbro reiterated that their lines were designed for kids. Sub-lines like Alts and MP figures were exceptions to the rule. They still seemed rather apprehensive about dealing with collectors.

 

The big break came with Classics. That was the first time they really made a TOY that was appealing towards all manner of TF fans young and old alike. For a sub-line it has done really well too through it's evolution. The movie rolled in shortly after that and the rest to this point is history.

 

So my point, perhaps it's time more to put that kind of effort forward more in the main lines released. When they took the cues from what the adult collectors wanted to see, they had a great amount of success with them. Even the movie figures have brought a more advanced bit of engineering that we might not have seen otherwise. Collectors have influenced the direction of Hasbro a lot already, but I'm just saying that relationship can still get better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with what you say madman1366. :) And IMO Takara have generally been better at understanding and servicing fans/collectors than Hasbro. However I also think that Takara's standards have slipped since their merger with TOMY. :(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with what you say madman1366. :) And IMO Takara have generally been better at understanding and servicing fans/collectors than Hasbro. However I also think that Takara's standards have slipped since their merger with TOMY. :(

 

 

It's always a give and take thing. We want more bang for our buck and they want more bucks for the bang. Eventually something gives somewhere.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn't enjoy pcc because the connections and the use of drones. I would like to see a new hasbro combiner with 4 or 5 deluxes.and a voyager_leader corso man. Just a new gesault.instead of making 7 or 8 bad pcc just make atleast 3 classics style big gesaults

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
  • Create New...
Sign Up For The TNI Newsletter And Have The News Delivered To You!


Entertainment News International (ENI) is the #1 popular culture network for adult fans all around the world.
Get the scoop on all the popular comics, games, movies, toys, and more every day!

Contact and Support

Advertising | Submit News | Contact ENI | Privacy Policy

©Entertainment News International - All images, trademarks, logos, video, brands and images used on this website are registered trademarks of their respective companies and owners. All Rights Reserved. Data has been shared for news reporting purposes only. All content sourced by fans, online websites, and or other fan community sources. Entertainment News International is not responsible for reporting errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and or other liablities related to news shared here. We do our best to keep tabs on infringements. If some of your content was shared by accident. Contact us about any infringements right away - CLICK HERE