Beast Wars comics - Maximal Imperium question

[Scaleface]

Maybe the Beast Wars furure is the Dreamwave G1 continuity where Prowl and Ironhide survived, Silverbolt was killed as Superion in the first limited series, but they implied they would rebuild the Aerialbots in the later issues.

 

Or the Fun Publications G1?Classics continuity where all three are alive.

 

Or it's a just a unique continuity.

 

Or they got a Quintesson to fix Prowl after the movie, like they fixed Prime.

[Liege Evilmus]

Your point of retcon just means it's OK for them to say F everything we told you so far, now this...

 

Hence to many cooks

 

Hence a wizard di... uuh alternate universe

 

Hence, let me get another beer and see what my shelves will do next while these guys make you jump hoops.

 

Yeah, beer.

That's a rather cynical but accurate summary of what retcon is. :)

 

And you're right about "too many cooks," and I think that's why the G1 cartoon had WAY more continuity problems compared to the G1 comics. But remember that Transformers canon was born as a means to sell toys. Hasbro insisted that certain characters appear in certain parts of the canon, even if it meant potentially contradicting existing canon. The Earthforce Saga is a good example of this.

 

But this is also another reason why some writers prefer to do continuity reboots instead of building on existing continuity; no need to risk the need for a retcon. But I personally prefer building on existing canon; it's harder, but I find it more satisfying... at least, when it's done well. *cough*Beast Machines*cough*

 

 

I'd love it if TFs had a sense of Canon too, but since there really isn't, I ignore the stories. They are just amuzement for me. Hasbro, Bay, Furman, IDW, Marvel, Fanfics can all say whatever they want, reset and negate whatever it's to screwed up to matter anymore.

 

Star Wars, Star Trek and so on, all very keen eye for detail. I don't really like those franchises, but I respect how on point they are with this stuff.

 

Transformers though, all we ever get is a new line of crap that has nothing to do with anything else. Like I said, the only TF canon I care about is the one on my shelves. It's a 15 year story that hasn't had to be reset once.

[sertile]

The REAL reason why thee guys come back is because Hasbro wanted to maintain the trademarks on their names for the toys!! :D Simple as that!

 

It's then up to writers to see whether or not they can try to work it into continuity; and sadly they can sometimes be thwarted by Hasbro's inattention to what they're doing. And it's nothing new, it even happened in G1. e.g.: there are two completely different Transformers in G1 called "Barrage."

 

sertile: I agree with you; the writers should have chosen one canon and stuck with it. But put it in context; Larry DiTillio and Bob Forward knew NOTHING about Transformers when they were first hired to write Beast Wars. To their credit, they _chose_ to keep Beast Wars within existing Transformers continuity, instead of choosing the easy option of making a new continuity like with the Unicron Trilogy or Transformers Animated. Keeping a story in pre-existing canon is HARD. It's even harder when said pre-existing canon has _multiple_ continuities! If you were hired to write a story for Star Wars, it's not much of a problem as the majority of what's been written for Star Wars exists in a singular continuity. Forward and DiTillio weren't quite aware of this and assumed that Transformers was a singular continuity. A *lot* of people do, even your more casual Transformer fans - just a few weeks ago I was in a bookstore talking to someone who told me he was a TF collector, but he was _unaware_ that the G1 cartoon and comics were separate continuities. So if fans can be ignorant of this, surely non-fans would be too. :) Forward and DiTillio started talking to the fandom via the newsgroup and asked for references for their research. Fans started citing certain episodes, comic book issues, bio & tech specs etc. for them to watch/read; which they did. But because they started by just exposing themselves to select material recommended by fans, and not actually sitting down and reading or watching the entire run of G1 (which would be VERY time-consuming; this is research they were doing and probably weren't being paid any extra for!), that's why Beast Wars' links to G1 feels like it jumps between different canons. :) While it does create continuity issues, I'm personally eternally grateful to DiTillio and Forward just for putting in that effort and consideration, which they would've done out of respect for the Transformers franchise and fans, as well as taking personal pride in their work. I've not seen any writer; comic, TV, movie etc., since Beast Wars/Machines who've bothered to do this. They've all taken the easier option of creating their own new continuities; and you can see why. But kudos to Forward and DiTillio for chosing the harder path; in the end it gave us what I consider the best story ever written for a TF TV series.

 

Retcon all you want. Prowl the owl was supose to be G1 Prowl (how the mighty have fallen).

But that's the entire point of retcon! It doesn't matter what was written before, the Law of Retroactive Continuity states that the latest official version is the most correct, and anything preceding it which may contradict it is therefore invalidated.

 

For example:

+ Initially the Transformers' origins were explained as Atechnogenesis (mechanical evolution) but Furman retconned it to special creation via the god Primus; which has now become the universal origin of all Transformers in _every_ continuity, because Primus is a Multiversal Singularity.

+ Initially the Maximals and Predacons were meant to be Autobots and Decepticons with beast modes. If you read the early tech spec bios and the comic book that came with the Optimus Primal vs. Megatron set, it talks about how they used biotechnology to make themselves beastie. The Beast Wars cartoon came along and completely replaced this by retconning the BW TFs as being the future descendants of Autobots and Decepticons.

...etc.

 

So as far as official canon and the Law of Retroactive Continuity are concerned, the original intent of the author actually doesn't matter if they're contradicted by later official canon. The latest official version is the most correct.

 

Case in point, Grimlock. Well, OK, comic book wise he and the other dinobots came to Earth around the same time as Beast Wars and fought Shockwave. So OK, he's here already. Well instead of just using that Grimlock and saying he was woken up by some crap or another, they made a whole new Grimlock who was supose to be on the Axilon but still the same guy???

Grimlock in Beast Wars is the Autobot Grimlock from the future. He survived the Great War and was reformatted and rebuilt as a Maximal. Much like Beast Wars Ravage is the same as G1 Ravage, but also from the future as a reformatted Predacon. Also, in G1 the Dinobots battled Shockwave and were trapped in tar; so at the time of the Beast Wars they were probably still frozen in a tar pit in the Savage Land in stasis lock.

 

But in Ditillo and Forwards' defense, it wasn't their writing that mucked things up. It was Dawn of Future's Past and all the apocryphal comics that came along later and mucked things up. Their stuff was pretty clean and straightforward, and when they needed to go out of their way to respect the source material they brought in experts, rather than just making it up as they went along.

 

Also, I wouldn't say the "Primus" origin is the least bit "universal." The Quintessons created the transformers in the television series, not Primus, and Cybertron was revealed to have been an organic planet that they transformers colonized in Beast Machines. I know the first series came along before/at the same time as the whole Primus thing, but BM was much, much later... and this was after all the talk about Primus in Beast Wars! D'oh!

[Liege Evilmus]

I gotta agree that I don't like the current Primus Unicron origins with them being multidimensional gods and what not.

 

I have my own take on them, it involves Primacron, it also explains Vector Sigma, the Plasma Energy Chamber, and The Matrix, and the origional technorganics.

 

I don't have the time to write it all out now, but if anyone cares, I'll get back to it.

 

Also, for what it's worth, I consider Megatron the guy who united the Decepticons, not the guy who founded them.

[Goktimus Prime]

But in Ditillo and Forwards' defense, it wasn't their writing that mucked things up. It was Dawn of Future's Past and all the apocryphal comics that came along later and mucked things up. Their stuff was pretty clean and straightforward, and when they needed to go out of their way to respect the source material they brought in experts, rather than just making it up as they went along.

You mean aside from setting Beast Wars in G1 comic _and_ cartoon continuities, portraying the Matrix as nothing more than a Spark holder etc.? :P Forward and DiTillio have admitted that at the time of writing 'Optimal Situation' they thought that the Matrix was just a holder for Optimus Prime's Spark; because they'd only watched his death scene in TFTM and hadn't watched the movie in its entirety.

 

I'm not trying to take a swipe at those guys; I really do think Beast Wars is the best written TF TV series and I'm eternally grateful to them for that and even _bothering_ to do G1 research, something that other writers don't seem to do. But BW continuity was already compromised long before Dawn of Future's Past. And don't forget that we had Reaching the Omega Point before then. :D

 

Also, I wouldn't say the "Primus" origin is the least bit "universal." The Quintessons created the transformers in the television series, not Primus, and Cybertron was revealed to have been an organic planet that they transformers colonized in Beast Machines. I know the first series came along before/at the same time as the whole Primus thing, but BM was much, much later... and this was after all the talk about Primus in Beast Wars! D'oh!

The Quintessons are enforcers for Unicron; hunting down survivors of his destruction (this isn't a retcon, this was stated in G1). I think official retcon states that the Quintessons were not the creators of the Transformers species, but came to enslave them and mass produce them as products for their mercantile empire.

 

Love it or loath it, retcon is an official reality of Transformers canon. :/ I suppose if it bothers you that much you could just do what liege evilmus does and detach yourself from official canon and delve into the world of fan fiction.

 

Btw, Cybertron was also originally an organic planet in the G1 comics too. It was an planetoid before it was imbued with Primus' life essence, after which Primus transformed it into a mechanical world. The Dinobots once encountered technorganic monsters who'd previously killed Runabout (as witnessed by Battletrap and Hi-Q).