RIBFIR vs FIBRIR

[Hobbes-timus Prime]

No Hobbes, It doesn't become "intent by default". It's just sloppy editing.

:roll Dude, it's not editing at all.

 

You also missed my point entirely regarding them. In most sources, and, in particular, all of them before the cartoon came out, Frenzy was blue and Rumble was red.

I never disputed that. We are in complete agreement on that matter. All I way saying is that the filmmaker's initial intent does not change the final product when the two don't match.

 

In the cartoon, Frenzy is Red and Rumble is Blue. And that will always be the case. You cannot argue that it retroactively changes somehow because someone screwed up.

[Tramp]

Yeah but they just read off the box(please don't ban me TFU)

Yeah, and Hasbro created the character, and Bob Budyanski gave them their names and wrote a lot of the bios. My point is that Hasbro purposely established Rumble as being red and black, and Frenzy as blue and violet, and this has been consistently maintained by them and Takara over the past 25 years.

[Tramp]

No Hobbes, It doesn't become "intent by default". It's just sloppy editing.

:roll Dude, it's not editing at all.

 

You also missed my point entirely regarding them. In most sources, and, in particular, all of them before the cartoon came out, Frenzy was blue and Rumble was red.

I never disputed that. We are in complete agreement on that matter. All I way saying is that the filmmaker's initial intent does not change the final product when the two don't match.

 

In the cartoon, Frenzy is Red and Rumble is Blue. And that will always be the case. You cannot argue that it retroactively changes somehow because someone screwed up.

You missed the point again Hobbes, It doesn't matter that the cartoon made Rumble blue. It was an error; a repeated error, and it wouldn't be the last. Look at how often Cliffjumper and Downshift's names were reversed repeatedly in Energon. The show never got it right once. That doesn't change the fact that this is Cliffjumper and this is Downshift. It's the exact same type of error. And those two don't even look remotely alike. Once the dubbing is done and the show's released, that's it. And, like I said, the cartoon doesn't match up with any of the other media in which Rumble and Frenzy are depicted save for the Diamond Select busts (based on the cartoons) and the Devil's Due Gi Joe vs Transformers comic. I'm not saying that the cartoon doesn't have rumble as blue. I am saying that he isn't supposed to be blue. Production screwed up. Regardless of the final result in the cartoon, it was still a screwup, and one that Japan rectified in their dub of the series.

[Hobbes-timus Prime]

No Hobbes, It doesn't become "intent by default". It's just sloppy editing.

:roll Dude, it's not editing at all.

 

You also missed my point entirely regarding them. In most sources, and, in particular, all of them before the cartoon came out, Frenzy was blue and Rumble was red.

I never disputed that. We are in complete agreement on that matter. All I way saying is that the filmmaker's initial intent does not change the final product when the two don't match.

 

In the cartoon, Frenzy is Red and Rumble is Blue. And that will always be the case. You cannot argue that it retroactively changes somehow because someone screwed up.

You missed the point again Hobbes, It doesn't matter that the cartoon made Rumble blue. It was an error; a repeated error, and it wouldn't be the last. Look at how often Cliffjumper and Downshift's names were reversed repeatedly in Energon. The show never got it right once. That doesn't change the fact that this is Cliffjumper and this is Downshift. It's the exact same type of error. And those two don't even look remotely alike. Once the dubbing is done and the show's released, that's it. And, like I said, the cartoon doesn't match up with any of the other media in which Rumble and Frenzy are depicted save for the Diamond Select busts (based on the cartoons) and the Devil's Due Gi Joe vs Transformers comic. I'm not saying that the cartoon doesn't have rumble as blue. I am saying that he isn't supposed to be blue. Production screwed up. Regardless of the final result in the cartoon, it was still a screwup, and one that Japan rectified in their dub of the series.

For fuck's sake, I am not arguing your point that it was an error. I am actually agreeing with you about it. What I'm saying is that the fact it was an error does not change the reality of Rumble being blue and Frenzy being Red in the cartoon. That is what the show canon is. Period. So there is no one definitive answer as to what color each character is. There is a legitimate blue Rumble and many more legitimate red Rumbles. But there are two different official depictions of the character, even if one is the result of an error, it was an error that was never rectified and that was strictly and consistently adhered to throughout the entirety of a very, very uneven series that would often contradict itself.

 

What I am trying to do here is put the arguing to rest by outlining the facts of the matter, instead of prolonging a discussion which will have no end if the whole thing is viewed through fanboy glasses.

 

But for the last time I not only concede that it was an error, I have never said differently. Seriously, if you try and tell me it was an error again, I'm going to report you for trolling.

[Liege Evilmus]

Yeah but they just read off the box(please don't ban me TFU)

Yeah, and Hasbro created the character, and Bob Budyanski gave them their names and wrote a lot of the bios. My point is that Hasbro purposely established Rumble as being red and black, and Frenzy as blue and violet, and this has been consistently maintained by them and Takara over the past 25 years.

 

Well yeah, but if you just go by the box and Hasbro and Bob, Skywarp is the lead Seeker not Starscream.

 

And last I saw Frenzy was grey/silver last time he showed up which is far from consistent.

 

SO...

 

It can be safe to say it was a box error not an animation error that no one wanted to own up to. I can't see the compamy who gave us a white Powerglide realy caring about following up on a detail like this.

[Tramp]

Yeah but they just read off the box(please don't ban me TFU)

Yeah, and Hasbro created the character, and Bob Budyanski gave them their names and wrote a lot of the bios. My point is that Hasbro purposely established Rumble as being red and black, and Frenzy as blue and violet, and this has been consistently maintained by them and Takara over the past 25 years.

 

Well yeah, but if you just go by the box and Hasbro and Bob, Skywarp is the lead Seeker not Starscream.

 

And last I saw Frenzy was grey/silver last time he showed up which is far from consistent.

 

SO...

 

It can be safe to say it was a box error not an animation error that no one wanted to own up to. I can't see the compamy who gave us a white Powerglide realy caring about following up on a detail like this.

Except that the toy came first, not the cartoon. The cartoon came significantly later, and the colorations of the toy and box are confirmed by Hasbro and many other sources. Hasbro and Takara have never released Rumble in blue and violet. He's always been released in red and black. The only toy "Frenzy" ever released by Hasbro in red and black was with "All Spark Enhanced" Barricade, and that was done as an homage to G1 Rumble. Another redeco of Barricade (Recon Barricade) came with a Blue frenzy, while the original and Premium toys came with the original silver of the movie character.

 

Also, as far as Movie Frenzy goes, while he's silver over all in robot mode, you'll notice that his optics are blue, and his stereo mode was also primarily blue, harkening back to G1 Frenzy being primarily blue.

 

As far as Skywarp and Starscream go, That's not entirely true, since, while some numbers on their respective the tech specs did get reversed, their bios firmly established Starscream as the leader and a arrogant snob, and Skywarp as a somewhat dim-witted yet crafty, thug and basic grunt:

 

G1 Skywarp tech Spec bio:

 

Tech Spec

 

"Strike when the enemy isn't looking."

Skywarp is the sneakiest of all Decepticons. Enjoys playing cruel pranks on fellow Decepticons and appearing out of nowhere to attack Autobots. Not too smart. Would be useless without Megatron's supervision. Top speed of 1500mph. Can instantly teleport up to 2.5 miles. Carries heat-seeking missiles and variable-calibre machine guns.

 

Strength 7

Intelligence 9

Speed 10

Endurance 7

Rank 9

Courage 9

Firepower 8

Skill 8

 

G1 Starscream tech spec bio:

 

"Conquest is made of the ashes of one's enemies."

Seeks to replace Megatron as leader. Ruthless, cold-blooded, cruel... considers himself the most sophisticated and handsome of Decepticons. Believes Decepticons should rely more on guile and speed rather than brute force to defeat Autobots. Fastest flyer of group, can reach Mach 2.8 and an altitude of 52 miles. Shoots cluster bombs and null-rays which disrupts the flow of electricity. Very good at what he does, but sometimes overrates himself.

 

Strength 7

Intelligence 7

Speed 9

Endurance 7

Rank 5

Courage 8

Firepower 7

Skill 7

 

So this is a case where the numbers don't match the bios. The only way we could consider these to be accurate is if the Decepticons (and presumably Autobots) rank structure follows a similar system as the US armed forces having separate rank structures for Officers and Enlisted/NCO's, thus, Starscream would be an O-5 (equivalent to a Lieutenant Colonel) and Skywarp would be an E-9 (equivalent of a Sergeant Major), the highest of enlisted ranks, while Skywarp

s "intelligence" might be a result of his craftiness and sneakiness (his "street smarts") rather than IQ.

 

In the case of their Classics bios and Tech Specs, Starscream's now begin to match his bio:

 

Classics Starscream tech Spec and bio:

 

"My enemies will be left nothing but the ashes of their defeat."

Ruthless, cold-blooded, and capable, Starscream makes no secret of the fact that he wants to replace Megatron as leader of the Decepticons. The fastest flyer among the Decepticons ranks and one of the most dangerous warriors ever to grace the skies of Cybertron, he is still something of a coward. He cares too much for his own skin to ever take the risks the overthrow of Megatron would require.

 

Strength 7

Intelligence 6

Speed 10

Endurance 6

Rank 8

Courage 4

Firepower 8

Skill 8

 

Classics Skywarp's bio now places him as a leader of his own team.

 

Classics Skywarp (from the two pack with Ultra Magnus)

 

As commander of Autobot City on Earth, Ultra Magnus commands the most powerful forces ever assembled, of which he is among the greatest. He was given the honor of City Commander by Optimus Prime because of his superior intelligence, and incredible might as a warrior. Since taking command he has defended the city against dozens of attacks by Decepticons led by the crafty Skywarp. For his part, Skywarp is determined to breach the city's defenses and destroy Ultra Magnus in order to prove himself to Megatron.

 

Strength 7

Intelligence 9

Speed 10

Endurance 7

Rank 9

Courage 9

Firepower 8

Skill 8

[Soundwinder]

Mreh, I go with Rumble being red. It's what Hasbro goes with, it's what Takara goes with. As everyone seems to agree, Rumble being blue started with an error, but unlike Hobbes, I feel that efforts have been made to fix it. Not within the series itself, but since then. The Japanese version changed it, Hasbro's done pretty much everything it can to make us forget. I don't believe that them not changing it at the time implies intent. As Hobbes said, they didn't really seem to care much about continuity or errors... I completely believe that they could have made a mistake and not noticed it for years.

 

But in any case, people aren't going to change their opinion about this, even if Hasbro has. It's about how they remember Rumble, so... yeah.

 

... I'm curious about the Downshift vs. Cliffjumper argument, though. That's an interesting angle.

[Breaker]

I used to think like you guys, that Rumble was blue and Frenzy was red. At one time, when I was young and foolish

 

And here is the generalized insult disguised as a comment towards no one that pisses off Breaker for the day! Congratulations!

 

Why is it that every topic your in no longer becomes a fun discussion but a heated, annoying, full-blown argument of hatred and despair?

[Liege Evilmus]

cause sometimes it's fun to poke a bear?

 

Again Tramp, I like yasometimes I can't get enough of watch how hard you try to spin things. The US Military thing for The Seekers, that just set me off right for today...

[Tramp]

cause sometimes it's fun to poke a bear?

 

Again Tramp, I like yasometimes I can't get enough of watch how hard you try to spin things. The US Military thing for The Seekers, that just set me off right for today...

Like I said, it's the only way their "ranks" could be considered accurate, because Skywarp doesn't outrank Starscream, according to their Hasbro bios, not even considering the show or comics. Look at RotF Chromia and Arcee. Chromia has a rank of 6, Arcee has a rank of 5, yet Arcee is supposed to be the leader.

 

And here is the generalized insult disguised as a comment towards no one that pisses off Breaker for the day! Congratulations!

 

Why is it that every topic your in no longer becomes a fun discussion but a heated, annoying, full-blown argument of hatred and despair?

It is a fun discussion right now Breaker, and no, my statement was not meant to insult anyone. It's just a comment about my age. I'm getting old.