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Wildling
QUOTE (Haggisjin @ Aug 1 2008, 10:22 PM) *
You know, at this point I'm just really glad I don't live in North America. That's about all I can add to this discussion.

Except that Canada has abolished the death penalty so the whole discussion is moot any how.


Bolded for truthiness.

By the way, the guy appeared in court this morning.
FREEFALLL666
OK two role models for people who inspire good. Booker-T of WWE and Dogg The Bounty-Hunter would be dead if all murderers were executed.
Agent Zero
QUOTE (Lord Madhammer @ Aug 1 2008, 04:59 PM) *
QUOTE (Agent Zero @ Aug 1 2008, 03:58 PM) *
Some people, however, cross a line, mental illness or not. The murderer on that Manitoba bus didn't just kill a guy as a result of whatever illness he had, he killed him, cut off the head, and carried it around with him. That's a whole other ballpark from someone just having a nervous breakdown and shooting someone else.
I'm not saying kill him (I don't believe in the death penalty), but I don't believe that state should waste resources trying to rehabilitate a man who is so far gone, when they could be spending those resources on someone who can be helped.
Some people, despite the best of intentions on the part of the state, can not be helped. Just keep them in a cell for the rest of their natural life, and provide basic services.

I'm not a psychiatrist

yeah

If someone kills someone else in a robbery gone wrong, they should be given a chance at rehabilitation.
If someone snaps, has a nervous breakdown, and kills someone then they should be given a chance at rehabilitation.
If someone stabs a man to death, cuts off the body's head and walks around with the head, then proceeds to hack away at the dead body some more, well that's a different ballgame altogether.

Acting like Jason Voorhees IRL tells me this guy's beyond saving, and again, I don't want him released back into normal society given the especially violent nature of this crime. Kill him? No, the death penalty doesn't exist in Canada (accept for "high treason"), besides, I don't believe in that anyway. Just lock him up in a cell for life with no chance at appeal. Give him a toilet, a bed, and three meals a day.

Sometimes there are people that are just beyond saving. To deny that this is true is simply naive. There are just some very sick people out there.

QUOTE (FREEFALLL666 @ Aug 2 2008, 06:48 AM) *
OK two role models for people who inspire good. Booker-T of WWE and Dogg The Bounty-Hunter would be dead if all murderers were executed.

I'm not suggesting they kill him, just lock him up for life.

And you really can't compare the nature of the murders committed by Booker T and Dogg the Bounty-Hunter to what Vince Weiguang Li (the suspect in the Manitoba bus killing) did.
Wildling
QUOTE (Agent Zero @ Aug 2 2008, 09:35 AM) *
QUOTE (Lord Madhammer @ Aug 1 2008, 04:59 PM) *
QUOTE (Agent Zero @ Aug 1 2008, 03:58 PM) *
Some people, however, cross a line, mental illness or not. The murderer on that Manitoba bus didn't just kill a guy as a result of whatever illness he had, he killed him, cut off the head, and carried it around with him. That's a whole other ballpark from someone just having a nervous breakdown and shooting someone else.
I'm not saying kill him (I don't believe in the death penalty), but I don't believe that state should waste resources trying to rehabilitate a man who is so far gone, when they could be spending those resources on someone who can be helped.
Some people, despite the best of intentions on the part of the state, can not be helped. Just keep them in a cell for the rest of their natural life, and provide basic services.

I'm not a psychiatrist

yeah

If someone kills someone else in a robbery gone wrong, they should be given a chance at rehabilitation.
If someone snaps, has a nervous breakdown, and kills someone then they should be given a chance at rehabilitation.
If someone stabs a man to death, cuts off the body's head and walks around with the head, then proceeds to hack away at the dead body some more, well that's a different ballgame altogether.

Acting like Jason Voorhees IRL tells me this guy's beyond saving, and again, I don't want him released back into normal society given the especially violent nature of this crime. Kill him? No, the death penalty doesn't exist in Canada (accept for "high treason"), besides, I don't believe in that anyway. Just lock him up in a cell for life with no chance at appeal. Give him a toilet, a bed, and three meals a day.

Sometimes there are people that are just beyond saving. To deny that this is true is simply naive. There are just some very sick people out there.


I would agree with most of what you said, but before I condemn the guy to a life with no contact to the outside world I'd like to know what happened in his head to make him kill someone that gruesomely. Maybe he is, as you say, beyond help and should be locked away from society. OR maybe there's something going on that therapy and meds can help with.

None of us could possibly know at this point because 1) we're not psychiatrists or psychologists, and b) all we know is what happened on the bus, not his life before this or his personality at all. And we don't even know his mental state while on the bus.
Lord Madhammer
I don't think you should really be going around making decisions about what to do with mentally disturbed people when you have no background in psychology. JMO
I.S.T.
I'm pretty sure he just won an insanity defence.

Also, puketf.gif
Glue
Yeah. Just heard about the cannibalism part on the tail end of a recording of the police radio transmissions.

Dunno. I do think matters of psychology and psychiatry shouldn't be determined other than by an actual psychologist/psychiatrist. At the same time, I don't think pscyhologists/psychiatrists should have the final say in what happens with criminals regardless of their sanity. No, I've not been following the entire conversation through the thread. But from a glance from some of the posts on pg 4, I feel the "mental disorder" issue should still be subordinate to the "is the person a danger to other individuals in society?" issue. Do I see the benefit of locking the criminally insane away instead of execution? Not really.
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