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Wildling
ARTICLE ON CBC.CA

QUOTE
40-year-old suspect held in gruesome Manitoba bus killing
Passenger decapitated, witnesses say; story contains graphic details


A 40-year-old man is in custody in Manitoba after a young man was stabbed — and, witnesses said, decapitated — aboard a Greyhound bus travelling through the province overnight.

Police officers spent Thursday examining a Greyhound bus where a passenger was reportedly stabbed and decapitated late Wednesday.Police officers spent Thursday examining a Greyhound bus where a passenger was reportedly stabbed and decapitated late Wednesday. (CBC)The RCMP would not confirm the reports of beheading, saying only that a stabbing took place around 8:30 p.m. CT on an eastbound Greyhound bus on the Trans-Canada Highway about 20 kilometres west of Portage la Prairie.

The suspect, believed to be from outside Manitoba, was arrested early Thursday morning after a standoff lasting several hours and remains in RCMP custody .

Charges have not yet been laid, and the suspect has not yet been interviewed, said RCMP spokesman Staff Sgt. Steve Colwell, adding that he could release no further information on the investigation.

The RCMP declined to identify either the suspect or the victim.

Thirty-seven people were aboard the bus en route to Winnipeg from Edmonton.

Colwell said the "brave" behaviour of the passengers and driver probably prevented anyone else from being hurt.

"It's not something that happens regularly on a bus," he said. "You're sitting there enjoying your trip and then all of a sudden somebody gets stabbed. I imagine it would be pretty traumatic … the way they acted was extraordinary."

Passenger Cody Olmstead, 21, told CBC News he had smoked a cigarette earlier in the trip with the victim, whom he described as a man in his late teens or early 20s. The victim got on the bus in Edmonton, he said.

"I never took the time to know him, but he seemed to be OK, right, just a kid," said Olmstead, a Nova Scotia man who had been taking the bus from Alberta to Montreal.

"He just said he was going to Winnipeg … going home, that's where he was from."

Garnet Caton said he heard a 'blood-curdling scream' and turned around to see a man repeatedly stabbing the passenger sitting next to him.Garnet Caton said he heard a 'blood-curdling scream' and turned around to see a man repeatedly stabbing the passenger sitting next to him. (CBC)Garnet Caton, who was sitting in the seat in front of the victim, said he saw the attacker stab his seatmate, a young man sleeping with his headphones on.

Caton said he heard a "blood-curdling scream" and turned around to see the attacker holding a large "Rambo" hunting knife above the victim, "continually stabbing him in the chest area."

"He must have stabbed him 50 times or 60 times," said Caton.

"Like, just everywhere, arms, legs, neck, chest, guts, wherever he could swing it, he got it," said Olmstead.

"It looked kind of like a scuffle or an argument, you know, and then somebody's, like, 'Knife! Knife! Run!' so I was running up the alleyway, slapping people telling them to get going, move, get off the bus. I got pushed over, some lady got pushed over, I was just making sure everybody was OK, and we all got off the bus," said Olmstead

As panicked passengers fled the bus, "the attacker was over top of the victim … continually cutting him. I think the victim was gone at that point," Caton said.


Caton, the driver and a trucker who had stopped at the scene later boarded the vehicle to see if the victim was still alive.

"When we came back on the bus, it was visible at the end of the bus he was cutting the guy's head off and pretty much gutting him up," said Caton.

The attacker ran at them, Caton said, and they ran out of the bus, holding the door shut as he tried to slash at the trio.

When the attacker tried to drive the bus away, the driver disabled the vehicle, Caton said.

"While we were watching the door, he calmly walks up to the front with the head in his hand and the knife and just calmly stares at us and drops the head right in front of us," said Caton.

"They did an awesome thing, holding him in there, because if not, what would have happened?" said Olmstead.

RCMP crisis negotiators communicated with the suspect for several hours while he was on the bus. Around 1:30 a.m., he attempted to jump from a bus window and was subdued and arrested, RCMP said.
Acted 'like he was a robot'

Caton described the attacker as surprisingly calm. "It was like he was at the beach or something. There was no rage in him. He wasn't swearing or cursing or anything. It was just like he was a robot or something."

The suspect remained on the bus for several hours and was arrested around 1:30 a.m., RCMP said.The suspect remained on the bus for several hours and was arrested around 1:30 a.m., RCMP said. (John Woods/Canadian Press)Police cruisers arrived about 10 minutes after the attack began, he estimated, and officers began directing passengers to school buses to take them to a hotel in Brandon.

"While we were waiting on the side of the road, [the attacker] was taunting the police with the head in his hand," said Caton.

Caton described the attacker as appearing "totally normal" earlier in the journey, even chatting with a young woman as he smoked a cigarette during a break.

But when he got back on the bus, he moved his belongings from the front to a seat beside the victim in the back and about 20 minutes later began attacking the man, said Caton. "He didn't say anything to the victim at all," said Caton.


guh copy.gif
trench
QUOTE (Wildling @ Jul 31 2008, 03:54 PM) *



emot-gonk1.gif
Firebrandx
If there's ever a case for burning someone alive as punishment, this is it.
ROSEDOGGYDOG
QUOTE (Firebrandx @ Jul 31 2008, 04:10 PM) *
If there's ever a case for burning someone alive as punishment, this is it.



This was absolutely sick, I was horrified to read this today. A well trained officer would have shot this evil dead on the spot. "he lunged at me..."
Sangron
Do they have immediate death sentence in Canada???
Haggisjin
*waits to see if the guy is legally insane before calling for his immolation*
I.S.T.
QUOTE (Haggisjin @ Jul 31 2008, 07:57 PM) *
*waits to see if the guy is legally insane before calling for his immolation*


He probably is. That, or he has some serious hatred towards the man he killed.
Wildling
QUOTE (Sangron @ Jul 31 2008, 08:35 PM) *
Do they have immediate death sentence in Canada???

Depends. If the RCMP respond with tasers ...then yeah.

I dunno ... something isn't right. That level of brutality doesn't come out of nowhere. It almost seems like it's supposed to be a big, flashy statement of some kind.
Lord Madhammer
QUOTE (Haggisjin @ Jul 31 2008, 08:57 PM) *
*waits to see if the guy is legally insane before calling for his immolation*

Sounds pretty batshit fucking insane to me.
Haggisjin
That's what I mean. He could have been totally disconnected from reality, with the voices telling him it was the only way he could stop Frank Sinatra from coming back to life and taking over his body.

Or he could've just had urges that he knew were wrong but didn't give a shit. Shrug.gif


Look how quickly people jumped on the "Andrea Yates Must Die" bandwagon, when the police had to pump her up to the eyeballs on anti-psychotics before they could even interview her.

*waits for more*
Firebrandx
QUOTE (Lord Madhammer @ Jul 31 2008, 09:58 PM) *
QUOTE (Haggisjin @ Jul 31 2008, 08:57 PM) *
*waits to see if the guy is legally insane before calling for his immolation*

Sounds pretty batshot farging insane to me.


I don't care if he is. People, insane or not, will think twice about carving somebody up in a random act if they might face immolation.


Haggisjin
I'm thinking that you're not quite understanding what "insane" actually means....
DarkNarcoleptic
death.gif


/sorry

BTW that would freak me the heck out...another good reason NOT to take the bus
Lord Madhammer
QUOTE (Haggisjin @ Jul 31 2008, 10:17 PM) *
That's what I mean. He could have been totally disconnected from reality, with the voices telling him it was the only way he could stop Frank Sinatra from coming back to life and taking over his body.

Or he could've just had urges that he knew were wrong but didn't give a shit. Shrug.gif


Look how quickly people jumped on the "Andrea Yates Must Die" bandwagon, when the police had to pump her up to the eyeballs on anti-psychotics before they could even interview her.

*waits for more*

The thing about the legal definition of insanity is that it's a legal definition. All people care about from a legal perspective is, are you capable of standing trial / understanding your actions. There are a whole bunch of nasty psychological disorders that don't affect one's lucidity. Which is a problem for me, because "legal insanity" seems to be the sole determining factor in whether someone gets sent to the loony bin or to prison.
Haggisjin
Agreed

"So you knew that killing her would get you in trouble... but you believed it was the only way you could stop her from stealing your thoughts and avert the Apocalypse?"

"... yeah"


"YOU KNEW THAT YOUR ACTIONS WOULD HAVE CONSEQUENCES! GUILTY! GUILTY I SAY!!"
I.S.T.
QUOTE (Haggisjin @ Jul 31 2008, 09:17 PM) *
That's what I mean. He could have been totally disconnected from reality, with the voices telling him it was the only way he could stop Frank Sinatra from coming back to life and taking over his body.

Or he could've just had urges that he knew were wrong but didn't give a shit. Shrug.gif


Look how quickly people jumped on the "Andrea Yates Must Die" bandwagon, when the police had to pump her up to the eyeballs on anti-psychotics before they could even interview her.

*waits for more*


I remember when her retrial was over and she was declared legally insane. People here were flaming her. I had to correct them.

With violence.
FREEFALLL666
Woa how err bizzarre... Guy should be locked up and die in jail. No chance of release ever.

Executions stop murders? BS why is murder rates higher in the US than most countries then? Oh thats right Execution encourages murder, it brings an eye for an eye as normality. It doesnt discourage anything.
You want to call yourself civilised? Then get rid of the Death Penalty till that day you are just barbarians in posh caves.
Nomolos
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-410150/Schoolgirl-arrested-refusing-study-non-English-pupils.html

yea, cuz in britain everything so civilized :whatever.

first of all the title story is from canada, second, in states where we use the death penalty it does tend to deter the types of murders that qualify. its not like we're just frying everybody who snaps.

*gets broadsword and goes a-viking*
Nomolos
QUOTE (Haggisjin @ Jul 31 2008, 09:13 PM) *
Agreed

"So you knew that killing her would get you in trouble... but you believed it was the only way you could stop her from stealing your thoughts and avert the Apocalypse?"

"... yeah"


"YOU KNEW THAT YOUR ACTIONS WOULD HAVE CONSEQUENCES! GUILTY! GUILTY I SAY!!"


indeed. if they're that crazy what good are they to society? oh yea, they can kill people and get away with it. we need more like that. let's give them a nice room and board forever...as opposed to knockin 'em off because they're helpful contributors to the world?
Lord Madhammer
I'm with Freefall on this one.
Haggisjin
QUOTE (Nomolos @ Aug 1 2008, 04:28 AM) *
QUOTE (Haggisjin @ Jul 31 2008, 09:13 PM) *
Agreed

"So you knew that killing her would get you in trouble... but you believed it was the only way you could stop her from stealing your thoughts and avert the Apocalypse?"

"... yeah"


"YOU KNEW THAT YOUR ACTIONS WOULD HAVE CONSEQUENCES! GUILTY! GUILTY I SAY!!"


indeed. if they're that crazy what good are they to society? oh yea, they can kill people and get away with it. we need more like that. let's give them a nice room and board forever...as opposed to knockin 'em off because they're helpful contributors to the world?


Or... you know... provide them with adequate treatment and medication until they're not crazy, or no longer a conceivable threat to themselves or the public. I mean, even if it's incurable, they have an illness. It's not like doctors walk around cancer or AIDS wards with shotguns or anything. Shrug.gif
Lord Madhammer
QUOTE (Haggisjin @ Aug 1 2008, 08:42 AM) *
QUOTE (Nomolos @ Aug 1 2008, 04:28 AM) *
QUOTE (Haggisjin @ Jul 31 2008, 09:13 PM) *
Agreed

"So you knew that killing her would get you in trouble... but you believed it was the only way you could stop her from stealing your thoughts and avert the Apocalypse?"

"... yeah"


"YOU KNEW THAT YOUR ACTIONS WOULD HAVE CONSEQUENCES! GUILTY! GUILTY I SAY!!"


indeed. if they're that crazy what good are they to society? oh yea, they can kill people and get away with it. we need more like that. let's give them a nice room and board forever...as opposed to knockin 'em off because they're helpful contributors to the world?


Or... you know... provide them with adequate treatment and medication until they're not crazy, or no longer a conceivable threat to themselves or the public. I mean, even if it's incurable, they have an illness. It's not like doctors walk around cancer or AIDS wards with shotguns or anything. Shrug.gif

The problem is that people don't really understand mental illness, and act as though anyone with a mental illness is really just a regular, fully-functioning person. Which they're not. At least in this country, there's historically been a huge stigma surrounding mental illness, with one of the popular misconceptions being that it's not something real.
FREEFALLL666
QUOTE (Lord Madhammer @ Aug 1 2008, 07:51 AM) *
QUOTE (Haggisjin @ Aug 1 2008, 08:42 AM) *
QUOTE (Nomolos @ Aug 1 2008, 04:28 AM) *
QUOTE (Haggisjin @ Jul 31 2008, 09:13 PM) *
Agreed

"So you knew that killing her would get you in trouble... but you believed it was the only way you could stop her from stealing your thoughts and avert the Apocalypse?"

"... yeah"


"YOU KNEW THAT YOUR ACTIONS WOULD HAVE CONSEQUENCES! GUILTY! GUILTY I SAY!!"


indeed. if they're that crazy what good are they to society? oh yea, they can kill people and get away with it. we need more like that. let's give them a nice room and board forever...as opposed to knockin 'em off because they're helpful contributors to the world?


Or... you know... provide them with adequate treatment and medication until they're not crazy, or no longer a conceivable threat to themselves or the public. I mean, even if it's incurable, they have an illness. It's not like doctors walk around cancer or AIDS wards with shotguns or anything. Shrug.gif

The problem is that people don't really understand mental illness, and act as though anyone with a mental illness is really just a regular, fully-functioning person. Which they're not. At least in this country, there's historically been a huge stigma surrounding mental illness, with one of the popular misconceptions being that it's not something real.

Not only that but if the perp recovers from his illness then the state can challenge the sentance for a harsher one. Thus killing someone for what occurred when they were ill. Also people with a low mental age and little concept of right and wrong can still be executed because they are keen to make the examiners happy with their responses.
Asthaloth
QUOTE (Lord Madhammer @ Aug 1 2008, 02:51 PM) *
The problem is that people don't really understand mental illness, and act as though anyone with a mental illness is really just a regular, fully-functioning person. Which they're not. At least in this country, there's historically been a huge stigma surrounding mental illness, with one of the popular misconceptions being that it's not something real.


*Gets called a Spack every now and then*

Funnily enough, words do hurt.
Agent Zero
QUOTE (Haggisjin @ Aug 1 2008, 09:42 AM) *
QUOTE (Nomolos @ Aug 1 2008, 04:28 AM) *
QUOTE (Haggisjin @ Jul 31 2008, 09:13 PM) *
Agreed

"So you knew that killing her would get you in trouble... but you believed it was the only way you could stop her from stealing your thoughts and avert the Apocalypse?"

"... yeah"


"YOU KNEW THAT YOUR ACTIONS WOULD HAVE CONSEQUENCES! GUILTY! GUILTY I SAY!!"


indeed. if they're that crazy what good are they to society? oh yea, they can kill people and get away with it. we need more like that. let's give them a nice room and board forever...as opposed to knockin 'em off because they're helpful contributors to the world?


Or... you know... provide them with adequate treatment and medication until they're not crazy, or no longer a conceivable threat to themselves or the public. I mean, even if it's incurable, they have an illness. It's not like doctors walk around cancer or AIDS wards with shotguns or anything. Shrug.gif

I'm all for rehabilitation, but sometimes people are just to far gone.
Nomolos
: agree that was my point. your gonna waste time, manpower and money rehabing a guy who did this? we're not talking about someone who screams when they see a fukkin lightbulb. this guy brutally murdered someone and cut off his head and used it to taunt other people when he couldn't get to them. you guys wouldve defended Norman f'n Bates. "well he heard his dead mother telling him to do it, he needs therapy and caring."

you care for him. I'd pay good money to see him burn.
Lord Madhammer
QUOTE (Agent Zero @ Aug 1 2008, 12:09 PM) *
QUOTE (Haggisjin @ Aug 1 2008, 09:42 AM) *
QUOTE (Nomolos @ Aug 1 2008, 04:28 AM) *
QUOTE (Haggisjin @ Jul 31 2008, 09:13 PM) *
Agreed

"So you knew that killing her would get you in trouble... but you believed it was the only way you could stop her from stealing your thoughts and avert the Apocalypse?"

"... yeah"


"YOU KNEW THAT YOUR ACTIONS WOULD HAVE CONSEQUENCES! GUILTY! GUILTY I SAY!!"


indeed. if they're that crazy what good are they to society? oh yea, they can kill people and get away with it. we need more like that. let's give them a nice room and board forever...as opposed to knockin 'em off because they're helpful contributors to the world?


Or... you know... provide them with adequate treatment and medication until they're not crazy, or no longer a conceivable threat to themselves or the public. I mean, even if it's incurable, they have an illness. It's not like doctors walk around cancer or AIDS wards with shotguns or anything. Shrug.gif

I'm all for rehabilitation, but sometimes people are just to far gone.

That's kind of a glib statement.


QUOTE (Nomolos @ Aug 1 2008, 12:34 PM) *
: agree that was my point. your gonna waste time, manpower and money rehabing a guy who did this? we're not talking about someone who screams when they see a fukkin lightbulb. this guy brutally murdered someone and cut off his head and used it to taunt other people when he couldn't get to them. you guys wouldve defended Norman f'n Bates.

Here's the misunderstanding -- you think that people are "defending" him. Nobody is doing that. Nobody is making an excuse for his actions. What I am saying is that if someone acts in a manner like this because of a mental disorder (which may or may not be the case in this situation), then that changes how you handle the case. Assuming that this person doesn't get the death penalty, I'm quite sure that it would be more beneficial for everyone if he were to be institutionalized in a mental hospital rather than placed into a prison.

And also, "seeing someone burn" is nothing more than you getting your jollies because it's not going to mean anything to the guy who did it, if in fact he is mentally disturbed.
Nomolos
well I didn't mean literally. but where is Justice in this? is Justice putting him up and feeding him and keeping him alive at societies expense after he committed such a crime? that hardly sounds like Justice was done for the friends and family of the dead kid, even IF he has a mental problem. no, the Gravy train out of Justice town doesn't ride on that railroad. [/Tick]

but really, let the punishment fit the crime. that's sounds like Justice to me.

*goes back to his old west gunfight*

Edit* if he has a disorder and it means nothing to the offender one way or the other... Shrug.gif
Lord Madhammer
QUOTE (Nomolos @ Aug 1 2008, 12:47 PM) *
well I didn't mean literally. but where is Justice in this? is Justice putting him up and feeding him and keeping him alive at societies expense after he committed such a crime? that hardly sounds like Justice was done for the friends and family of the dead kid, even IF he has a mental problem. no, the Gravy train out of Justice town doesn't ride on that railroad. [/Tick]

but really, let the punishment fit the crime. that's sounds like Justice to me.

*goes back to his old west gunfight*

Well if you're gonna go that route, then we should be executing 50% of the inmates in our federal penitentiary system. But that's another issue.

The thing about "justice" is that it's really kind of an elusive concept, at least IMO. I mean, are you really gonna feel better if someone kills your loved one, and they're put to death? The loved one is still gone. I think "justice" really means "revenge" in most practical cases.
Nomolos
*has no problem with vengeance*


idk. seems like justice would be served better if this guy got the chair as opposed to the dead kids families tax dollars paying for his upkeep forever. that's just me.

Lord Madhammer
QUOTE (Nomolos @ Aug 1 2008, 12:54 PM) *
*has no problem with vengeance*


idk. seems like justice would be served better if this guy got the chair as opposed to the dead kids families tax dollars paying for his upkeep forever. that's just me.

Like I said, that's another issue.

And thanks for being honest, but I'd personally rather not allow society to be ruled by frontier justice / barbarism.
Nomolos
its not really frontier justice or barbarism. I'm not saying let's skip the trial or lynch anyone. I'm not saying bash his head in.
I'm saying will justice be done?

not directed at Madhammer-funny how some of the same people are giving this guy the benefit of a doubt who immediately condemn our military for killing a suspected terrorist.
Lord Madhammer
QUOTE (Nomolos @ Aug 1 2008, 01:08 PM) *
its not really frontier justice or barbarism. I'm not saying let's skip the trial or lynch anyone. I'm not saying bash his head in.
I'm saying will justice be done?

not directed at Madhammer-funny how some of the same people are giving this guy the benefit of a doubt who immediately condemn our military for killing a suspected terrorist.

Seriously I don't think you're getting it. This isn't giving anyone the benefit of the doubt. It's a question of, how do you handle cases like this IF the assailant is mentally ill? If it's not just a normal person being like "yeah I wanted to kill someone," but someone who would be diagnosed with a mental disorder?
OP2K5
*votes to bump this to Political Discussion*

in before teh flames
Stormtrooper53
LOL to a police standoff with a guy that just beheaded someone not ending in a head shot.
Lord Madhammer
QUOTE (Stormtrooper53 @ Aug 1 2008, 01:37 PM) *
LOL to a police standoff with a guy that just beheaded someone not ending in a head shot.

And for the record, I would have been totally fine with that happening.

Don't ask me to explain the contradiction.
Stormtrooper53
What is life if not a series of seemingly interconnected yet intertwined contradictions?
Lord Madhammer
Hip-Hoptimus Rime
QUOTE (Stormtrooper53 @ Aug 1 2008, 01:49 PM) *
What is life if not a series of seemingly interconnected yet intertwined contradictions?


Whoa! You just blew my MIND!

Yeah, nasty story, clearly not a well person. Shouldn't keep him out of the gallows, tho. He was clear-headed enough to try to steal the bus and taunt police. (Kudos BTW to the driver for diabling it.)

Doing something like that as immediate retribution for some horrible crime, like having a relative killed in front of you, would seem almost understandable as a crime of passion. But this guy was not in the heat of the moment.
Lord Madhammer
QUOTE (Hip-Hoptimus Rime @ Aug 1 2008, 01:54 PM) *
QUOTE (Stormtrooper53 @ Aug 1 2008, 01:49 PM) *
What is life if not a series of seemingly interconnected yet intertwined contradictions?


Whoa! You just blew my MIND!

Yeah, nasty story, clearly not a well person. Shouldn't keep him out of the gallows, tho. He was clear-headed enough to try to steal the bus and taunt police. (Kudos BTW to the driver for diabling it.)

Doing something like that as immediate retribution for some horrible crime, like having a relative killed in front of you, would seem almost understandable as a crime of passion. But this guy was not in the heat of the moment.

Okay, back to serious.

This is what I'm saying -- people think of "mental disorders" as something that affects your lucidity. Mental disorders mean that something about your brain is broken. And not necessarily the part that allows you to be aware of your surroundings etc. Like for example, let's say you had no capacity for empathy (typical symptom of a sociopath). You literally wouldn't be able to comprehend what it means for someone else to suffer. But you still know what day it is, what color the sky is, etc.
Stormtrooper53
FYI, would be all for abolishing the death penalty, if part of the murderer's sentence stipulated that, upon request of the family member, the victim is placed in a room and tied to a chair at which point the family member is allowed to enter the room and punch the murderer in the face. This would be done any time a member of the victim's family wished.
Nomolos
QUOTE (Lord Madhammer @ Aug 1 2008, 11:58 AM) *
QUOTE (Hip-Hoptimus Rime @ Aug 1 2008, 01:54 PM) *
QUOTE (Stormtrooper53 @ Aug 1 2008, 01:49 PM) *
What is life if not a series of seemingly interconnected yet intertwined contradictions?


Whoa! You just blew my MIND!

Yeah, nasty story, clearly not a well person. Shouldn't keep him out of the gallows, tho. He was clear-headed enough to try to steal the bus and taunt police. (Kudos BTW to the driver for diabling it.)

Doing something like that as immediate retribution for some horrible crime, like having a relative killed in front of you, would seem almost understandable as a crime of passion. But this guy was not in the heat of the moment.

Okay, back to serious.

This is what I'm saying -- people think of "mental disorders" as something that affects your lucidity. Mental disorders mean that something about your brain is broken. And not necessarily the part that allows you to be aware of your surroundings etc. Like for example, let's say you had no capacity for empathy (typical symptom of a sociopath). You literally wouldn't be able to comprehend what it means for someone else to suffer. But you still know what day it is, what color the sky is, etc.


I knew there was a word for my condition.
DarkNarcoleptic
RUN guh copy.gif
siburke939
more money should be put into detecting/helping people with mental issues BEFORE they do things like this

it took me going absolutely MAD in a nightclub after a bouncer hit me on the back of the head (had a bit of verbal with him a few nights before the incident) - i don't remember what happened (i blacked out) but witnesses said i chinned him & proceeded to chin several of the bouncers before eventually getting overpowered (i'm good with my fists but physically mediocre strength-wise) - got arrested & all that nonsense - ended up getting psychiatric help & eventually had a brain scan which shown i'd had brain damage for quite a while (approximately 7 years or so at that point)

the signs were there & i even asked for help - it shouldn't have got so far

i deal with it by not drinking now (transformers are my new vice!) & i have a VERY tolerant & understanding missus - my family don't speak to me any more and that hurts - but farg em - i still need a LOT of help but i don't know where to go or who to ask what to - i just deal with it and try to get on with life - i'm a bit of a "ticking time bomb" though - only yesterday i stopped my car in the middle of the road & jumped out ready to stomp some prick for trying to bully me off the road with a lorry after overtaking me on the inside - i snapped out of it after he said sorry & to be honest we were both lucky - i would've just opened him up there & then... and that's not really the kind of person i am - my temper just explodes when someone takes a liberty with me

SOMEBODY HELP ME

seriously - a LOT more needs to be done to help people with mental issues raincloudyi7.gif
FREEFALLL666
It doesn't matter if the guy is sane or not, to execute the guy turns a cop or jailhouse guard into a killer and every citizen in the country into one. Your kids paying for sweets pay taxes, they pay part of the money for the execution. Your kids are therefore even if it is 0.000000009% of the total they are paying for murder. Sorry but even for a sick farg like Saddam Hussein execution was not right.
There is NO way you can say that murder is wrong but execution is right. If killing another in sane mind is wrong then you don't pay someone money for them to take the murderers life.

Or as Grammy Flash says "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"...
Lord Madhammer
QUOTE (siburke939 @ Aug 1 2008, 03:37 PM) *
more money should be put into detecting/helping people with mental issues BEFORE they do things like this

it took me going absolutely MAD in a nightclub after a bouncer hit me on the back of the head (had a bit of verbal with him a few nights before the incident) - i don't remember what happened (i blacked out) but witnesses said i chinned him & proceeded to chin several of the bouncers before eventually getting overpowered (i'm good with my fists but physically mediocre strength-wise) - got arrested & all that nonsense - ended up getting psychiatric help & eventually had a brain scan which shown i'd had brain damage for quite a while (approximately 7 years or so at that point)

the signs were there & i even asked for help - it shouldn't have got so far

i deal with it by not drinking now (transformers are my new vice!) & i have a VERY tolerant & understanding missus - my family don't speak to me any more and that hurts - but farg em - i still need a LOT of help but i don't know where to go or who to ask what to - i just deal with it and try to get on with life - i'm a bit of a "ticking time bomb" though - only yesterday i stopped my car in the middle of the road & jumped out ready to stomp some prick for trying to bully me off the road with a lorry after overtaking me on the inside - i snapped out of it after he said sorry & to be honest we were both lucky - i would've just opened him up there & then... and that's not really the kind of person i am - my temper just explodes when someone takes a liberty with me

SOMEBODY HELP ME

seriously - a LOT more needs to be done to help people with mental issues raincloudyi7.gif

BTW that really sucks dude thumbsdown.gif

sorry that's about all I can say but yeah, stay away from buses and knives I guess
Agent Zero
QUOTE (Lord Madhammer @ Aug 1 2008, 01:39 PM) *
QUOTE (Agent Zero @ Aug 1 2008, 12:09 PM) *
QUOTE (Haggisjin @ Aug 1 2008, 09:42 AM) *
QUOTE (Nomolos @ Aug 1 2008, 04:28 AM) *
QUOTE (Haggisjin @ Jul 31 2008, 09:13 PM) *
Agreed

"So you knew that killing her would get you in trouble... but you believed it was the only way you could stop her from stealing your thoughts and avert the Apocalypse?"

"... yeah"


"YOU KNEW THAT YOUR ACTIONS WOULD HAVE CONSEQUENCES! GUILTY! GUILTY I SAY!!"


indeed. if they're that crazy what good are they to society? oh yea, they can kill people and get away with it. we need more like that. let's give them a nice room and board forever...as opposed to knockin 'em off because they're helpful contributors to the world?


Or... you know... provide them with adequate treatment and medication until they're not crazy, or no longer a conceivable threat to themselves or the public. I mean, even if it's incurable, they have an illness. It's not like doctors walk around cancer or AIDS wards with shotguns or anything. Shrug.gif

I'm all for rehabilitation, but sometimes people are just to far gone.

That's kind of a glib statement.

If someone is diagnosed with a mental illness then the powers that be should make every effort to reform and help them enter decent society, even if they commit a crime as a result of their mental disorder, even if they've killed someone.
Some people, however, cross a line, mental illness or not. The murderer on that Manitoba bus didn't just kill a guy as a result of whatever illness he had, he killed him, cut off the head, and carried it around with him. That's a whole other ballpark from someone just having a nervous breakdown and shooting someone else.
I'm not saying kill him (I don't believe in the death penalty), but I don't believe that state should waste resources trying to rehabilitate a man who is so far gone, when they could be spending those resources on someone who can be helped.
Some people, despite the best of intentions on the part of the state, can not be helped. Just keep them in a cell for the rest of their natural life, and provide basic services.

Now the question will come up "where do we draw that line?"
Honestly I don't know. I'm not a psychiatrist, I'm not a lawyer. Just judging from what I've seen from this case though, the murderer in question is far beyond helping.
Quite frankly given the nature of his crime, I'm not ok with the idea of him being released back into society.
Lord Madhammer
QUOTE (Agent Zero @ Aug 1 2008, 03:58 PM) *
Some people, however, cross a line, mental illness or not. The murderer on that Manitoba bus didn't just kill a guy as a result of whatever illness he had, he killed him, cut off the head, and carried it around with him. That's a whole other ballpark from someone just having a nervous breakdown and shooting someone else.
I'm not saying kill him (I don't believe in the death penalty), but I don't believe that state should waste resources trying to rehabilitate a man who is so far gone, when they could be spending those resources on someone who can be helped.
Some people, despite the best of intentions on the part of the state, can not be helped. Just keep them in a cell for the rest of their natural life, and provide basic services.

I'm not a psychiatrist

yeah
Haggisjin
You know, at this point I'm just really glad I don't live in North America. That's about all I can add to this discussion.

Except that Canada has abolished the death penalty so the whole discussion is moot any how.
Nomolos
QUOTE (Haggisjin @ Aug 1 2008, 07:22 PM) *
You know, at this point I'm just really glad I don't live in North America.


finally something we can all agree on.


kiddin dude, I know we fall on opposite sides of issues but I have no real ill will towards anyone on here...unless you cut off someones head.
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