depending on who you ask what should be. I think more power should be given back to the states. seems like maybe you guys think the states should go away and we just have the one govt. I could be wrong. I'm just guessing. but I like the way it is, in that the population doesn't decide, being that most people really wouldn't understand what we've been discussing. I tend to think the electors have a slightly better focused interest in our country and are probably more educated on the workings than the avg person.

Fair enough. I get what you're saying. The one question I still have though is, what do you define as a "state" in this context? It can't just be a demarcated chunk of land, it has to be defined as some person or group of people that can make a decision. In this case, is the "state" defined as the governor, the legislature, the state courts? Who is the "state" that needs a voice in national government, if not the people within?

State Government (however your state is set up. GA has a house and senate). that's who used to appoint the senators and it is who appoints the electorates.
and LMH your direct voice in government is the house and senate. we have 2X the voice our forefathers intended as of the senate amendment. how direct a voice do you want? and do you want it at the expense of your sovereign states ability to have a voice?

I understand the line of thought (I took Civics, lol) but I would believe the majority of people aren't as interested in their state governments. To many degrees, of course, but people as a whole are more interested in national politics.

I'm also guessing the Federalists' case would have been much stronger today, as we have a pretty strong nationwide communications system.

wow, I don't know what to say to that. you really don't care about your state govt? they have so much more to do with your life than apparently you realize. but anyway. its not indirect if you vote on your reps, that's a direct vote. its not any more direct if you vote for a president. he's still got to live up to what he says. and since the reps are the lawmakers that's where our voice needs to be heard.

Exactly! We're not living on farms and sh*t with the pony express anymore!

I just know the relative place of state government. Of course I care about the roads and schools and stuff. But the national issues are the ones that are really important to me. It doesn't do me any good to have a voice in my state government if my president is acting like a fargwit in front of the entire world.

I just know the relative place of state government. Of course I care about the roads and schools and stuff. But the national issues are the ones that are really important to me. It doesn't do me any good to have a voice in my state government if my president is acting like a fargwit in front of the entire world.

I'm not saying that my state (and more importantly, local) government systems aren't important to me. It's just that your average citizen doesn't treat them as important as national issues. I understand how the chain of government breaks down from the federal level to the citizen; I'm just not sure how our presidental voting system really contributes to it.

*edit- btw you just proved my point. by taking your voice in the stae govt you affect who votes for the president.

I want ME to vote for the president.

sorry, we live in a republic.
as long as the constitution is the law of the land the best you can do is vote for the state reps you want and get the electorates to align with your values.

OMFG NO shot SHERLOCK THAT'S WHY I DON'T LIKE THE SYSTEM

*calms down, adjusts tie*


actually I'm not wearing a tie

That's the thing- I don't want to do away with complete republic-ness, but there are just some aspects of it that are unneeded because we have cell phones and fax lines and internet tubes and stuff, things that the founders of our country did not foresee. Communicatively speaking, America is a much smaller nation that it was at its inception. There is more room for direct representation.

OMFG NO shot SHERLOCK THAT'S WHY I DON'T LIKE THE SYSTEM

I would prefer a feudal system where mayors own all the local land that they then lend out to nobles for in return for protection. It would work well in the South, we have lots of guns and have already seceded once.

alright that's it, I'm voting for Boobies.

I'm cool because I supported Obama before he became Jesus.

I'm cool because I supported Obama before he became Jesus.

"al light will shine down, you'll have an epiphany, you will realize 'i have to vote for Barack'...people of the world this is our moment...this is the moment when the waters begin to recede and the earth begins to heal" -so sayeth the sheperd
*paraphrased of course for the quote nazi's*
too bad I don't believe in a messiah. or an anti-messiah or al-gore. I know he didn't invent the innernetz, cuz Pete did.