The official street date for TF: Animated was June 22nd. Not that you could really notice, of course. Stocking at the major box stores was sporatic at best. There are probably stores that STILL are not on board with stocking Animated figures. Only recently have I seen any kind of uniform stocking arrangements. Target, for instance, dedicated an end cap display yet only 20% of stores I visited used the promotion. At that, it was shared with the shelfwarmer known as Deep Space Starscream.

So imagine my disgust today when I visited my local Target and found not one end cap... but THREE end caps advertising the new Star Wars Legacy line!! Then I walked down the action figure line and damn near HALF of one rack was filled with Star Wars. Animated was shoved way to the back of the aisle in a congested corner, sharing space with random pegs of Universe figures. Now, the good news is that there were plenty of wave 3 deluxes, including several Soundwaves.

I continued my bike ride a mile down the road to the Walmart. Lo and behold, 2 main aisle cubes with nothing but Star Wars Legacy crap. A walk down their action figure aisle proved to be a deja vu of Target. Nearly half the rack filled with fresh SW merchandise. As for anything TF? Half the pegs were empty. Maybe 20 pegs at best were dedicated to TF in total.

I peronally have never been enveloped into the SW franchise. So maybe I don't understand the fandom or the love given to the franchise. However, after seeing today's events, I'm left frustrated and puzzled. So here are my questions:

1) Who loves Star Wars more? Hasbro, retailers or fans? My answer is going to retailers. They seem way more proactive on making sure Star Wars merchandise is given front page. I haven't ventured into a Toys R Us lately, so I don't know if their headline aisle is changed from Dark Knight yet. If it's changed to Star Wars, I shall puke

2) Has TF made a name for itself to retailers as shelfwarming clearance mongers? It's true that there has been some instances where TF product has sat around collecting space before it's marked down to move. I attribute most of that fault to Hasbro for not properly reading the market. They seem to be real knee-jerk about the TF lines.

This is only my opinion, but I'm interested in hearing others thoughts.

I think star wars is just seen as a safe bet its popularity has never really hit a low point but transformers seems to go up and down every 4 or 5 years.

also army building is a licence to print money and I've noticed most SW toys seem to be some sort of tropper. and the concept of transformers each being as unique as a snow flake really does not lend it self to the concept of buying multiples in huge numbers

also I don't think star wars is free of shelf warmers most discount stores near me still have the toys of General Grevus when he is on fire (the most wtf idea ever I might add)

and another point I think its easier for star wars toys to be both collector and child friendly since they don't really have to deal with the whole transformation complexity thing

i officially now hate star wars toys and want them to farging die. for the past 2 weeks i've not been able to find ANYTHING new because all the stores where clearing shelf space and waiting on the farging street date for the new star wars crap to restock farging anything. the only store that didn't dissapoint me is TRU, and even then they've only put out the universe wave 1 deluxes and no new joe stuff minus 3 cases of wave 1 vehicles.

Star Wars has made everyone involved with it way more money than Transformers has made anyone involved with it.

There's a theatrical release coming for the Clone Wars cartoon... that kind of display is standard procedure.

And yeah it is Star Wars, it's been around longer, sorry

Hasbro can hear the cha ching!!!

Also, and I hate to say such a thing on a TF forum, but Star Wars is WAY more well known than TF will ever be.

true, but does it really need a full half of a goddamned aisle?

if you strike star wars down now it will become more powerful than you could possibly imagine...

yeah star wars >>> transformers (unfortunately)

Also keep in mind that the whole SW toyline is hevily collector-driven. Hasbro is frequently asking the fans which figures they would like made and other cool toy things like that; something they would never do for TF's for one simple reason: $$$.

Star Wars makes such HUGE amounts of money for Hasbro on a regular basis, that they have no choice but to saturate the market.

I went with a buddy to the midnight release of that SW junk last night, and it was crazy. Dudes walking out 2 and 3 of the new Millenium Falcons and AT-TE thing. That would just never happen with TF's.

The good thing is that quite often when they stock the new SW stuff, other new Hasbro stuff gets shipped/put out with it.

Apparently, yes.

The store isn't going to stock stuff if they figure the stuff won't sell. Star Wars is a proven thing. It sells. TF doesn't have the same kind of sales history.

I have to say that these SW figs are some of the nicest looking SW figs that have come out in a long time.
(well the first set of Clone Wars figs were also nice)

They almost made me want to buy some.

But did anyone see the new Millenium Falcon! I about shot my pants and screamed like a little girl in Target.
That thing is A) Massive and B) Awesome!

Its finally big enough to really look like the falcon with different rooms and hideaway spots and stuff...
I was really dissapointed when they started the SW line up again (94? 95?) and the ships were all from the same molds as they were back in 1977/80.

But Frak that Falcon was worthy.

Fun fact: The designer of the BMF ("Big Millennium Falcon" of course) has worked for Hasbro going all the way back to the Kenner days, and helped design the original Falcon.

And seriously guys... remember when Spider-Man 1-3 came out? (well, 2-3 anyway) Or Hulk? Or any of that other stuff? If something's in the movie theaters, you're gonna get the big display.

I agree. They are pretty slick...especially the packaging. I stumbled across some at Target today with shiny stickers on the front that said something like "first day of availability." Talk about collector bait.

$$$$$$$$$$$$

Seriously, aren't those things $150 a pop? Cause I remember seeing them at Wal-Mart today and being like "Aww hellz yeah this is really cool-- wat? Um, no way."

The fact that Hasbro won't cross Transformers with it's own property, G.I. Joe, and continues to make SWTFs, is further evidence of the power of the Force.

lol I have to say that sticker would get me buying crap even if I'm not a misb collector

In all my years of paying attention to toyshelves. Transformers has always struck me as the red headed step daughter of the Hasbro family.

It doesn't matter how much they make, how quickly they fly off the shelves, or how much people realy want them, they just never seem to get the attention or credit they deserve.

Star Wars on the other hand, is and always has been a shelf warmer near me, those pegs are always full. Still it soesn't change the fact that Hasbro will acuratly reproduce every single frame of film to a T. They'll pump out countless intricatly detailed high priced vehichiles. Even though the X-Wing in the swamp is still all over near me, they keep new high priced items coming to collect dust on the shelves along side it. A fine example is the weapon replicas that aren't moving, and no I'm not talking about the $5 light sabers.

Meanwhile, where enjoying our 5th year of the Cybertron line, and Animated. The way I see it, to Hasbro, Transformers aren't something to take to seriously, especialy since they just import most of them anyway.

So yeah, Hasbro

a tad off topic but I have to wonder how the 25th annie stuff will be sold. Star Wars stuff seems to come very nicely packed I recall the 500th figure Vader looking amazing in its package. notice all the special bits and bobs for what is a standard figure with a base/chair



but collector aimed TF's from hasbro just look like any other TF item with no real special packing. A good example is the 10th annie beast wars voyager toys of primal and megs Takara made a very cool box with a big flap with beast wars in huge letters across the front the Hasbro toys looked meh like the toys were just stuffed into the box the best way they would fit. hell they didn't even give them new box art



now I'm not saying TF's should copy SW since Transformers are much more light hearted but wouldn't it be cool if for the 25th anni Prime was say classics prime on his death bed with Daniel crying on his arm? I know for $20 I'd get one

because to hasbro transformers is just another toy line apparently

Hello, DUH! Star Wars has a movie coming out. When Transformers came out last year, Walmart had gaint Optimus & Barricade posters. There were 2 cubes with tons of TF stuff, a big end cap & the shelf.

In fact........dont that happen with every movie? Animated is just a regular line. I love TFs too.

sad but true buddykiller.

but supa Tman the 500th figure thing was just to celebrate just that the 500th toy figure no new show, no new movie and I'm quite sure their are way over 500 TF toys in its history and yes while TF's did get a huge display for its movie TF's they soon were moved back here but star wars have always had their stand that seems to just be bigger then all the others to accommodate all that stuff that I never see sell

Read this and feel better.


Posted by a retail store employee and Joe fan on a G.I. Joe forum:

"SW collectors are funny

I got to work an hour before we opened and we put out boxes upon boxes of the new SW Clone Wars figures and when we opened a bunch of adults came running practically to the toy ailse (i should mention these men were between 35-60 based on appearance) anyway i move down to the toy aisle just to observe and for about 40 min they went back on forth with their collector SW lingo and a couple of times i was expecting a fight to break out over certain rare figures that we didn't have much of. Also one of those guys ended up buying 3 cases worth by case i mean 12 figures in a box.

I myself was gonna just get an IG 88 toy to fight my Joes, but after seeing how savage these people are i decided to skip it, btw on a side note one of the men involved comes to the store every morning to buy toys and thank god the one toy he doesn't touch.....you guesses it, its G.I. Joe.

Anyway i just wanted to tell a story and if anyone else has any stories about collectors and their unusual ways go ahead and share."

I've only ever seen that sorta thing once it was around the time phantom menace was being released their was a toy limit and a line ending at the entrance to get the toys most were 40's but hey if it makes them happy

[quote name='Cool Hand Lube' date='Jul 26 2008, 09:03 PM' post='1396640']
Also keep in mind that the whole SW toyline is hevily collector-driven. Hasbro is frequently asking the fans which figures they would like made and other cool toy things like that; something they would never do for TF's for one simple reason: $$$

I disagree with this. Hasbro has been doing surveys for TF for a few years now. I dont think its coincidence that I answered TFs need good articulation & now every Ani fig has way more joi

Ya know, Star Wars got its start with a huuuuuuge blockbuster film, and then followed that up with two more... and then followed that up with three more (yeah I know they were pretty lame but they made $$$). Transformers got its start as a kids' cartoon on television. It was only LAST YEAR that it finally made it to the big time. Just for some perspective.

well transformers was also the pokemon of the 80's

but apart from that its all true. but does the medium of how it got out into the world matter if the end result of having a large adult fan base is the same?

I'm just saying that the fan base is probably much larger for Star Wars. Much, much larger. The demographic for those movies was also much broader, beyond just preschool-to-elementary school boys.

Question - wasn't SW licensed by Kenner up until like 2 years ago?

BUT I COLLECT TRANSFORMERS, NOT STAR WARS!!!!

also, i know they acknowledge us alot more than they have to, but sometimes i feel so ignored as a collector.

they are getting better (they brought classics back), but it'd be nice to have something directed just at collectors. hell, i'd settle for an HTS exclusive even. maybe a reissue g1 megs or something. they'd have no problem selling it if they didn't market it as a children's toy. hell, they don't even have to go that far. maybe start offering takara only product. i'm sure it'd be scores cheaper than any other import store.

I think these topics piss Hasbro off. They've been showing TF major love non stop ever since Alts showed up. Only thing I never got in the passed few years was Alt Bumblebee but then they made up for it with classics. I say shut up and enjoy being a fan. I am. now where's some more money!?

Kenner was eaten by Hasbro sometime in the 90's.

I know SW a much larger fan base and get more collectors stuff and i've got no problem with that power to them. but when they do TF items they always seem twisted so that they can be marketed at kids and the collector factor is a bonus e.g. alt skids wtf were those decals about? and for the most part the alts were takara doing hasbro just feed them ideas. Takaratomy have gotten the collectors thing down Encore is awesome and I hope so will this Prime GTR

now if classics had that day of release sticker on them the new SW figs had that would be a nice way to feed the collectors and only ad a tiny amount to the costs

I agree, I do think that Hasbro is having some difficulty determining their demographic for TFs, and I do think they consistently underestimate the collector market. They could be driving it rather than responding to it.

*liked the decals on Alt Skids*

See, I don't get this mindset. I don't fault you for having it, but I don't understand it.

I am a collector of children's toys. I don't want stuff made for an adult. If I did I'd collect sports memorabilia or firearms or something. But I collect toys. I want them to be durable and hold up to my playing with them, like toys should. I don't want Alts or Masterpieces, I don't want Hard Hero statues, I don't want anything I can't get at a Target, Wal-Mart, or Toys R Us. Fragile, meant for display, adults only stuff based on kid's toys is

Gimme kid's toys or give me another hobby.

The mindset involves a fundamental shift in the way pop culture is digested in this country. As has been said by many before me, what was once considered a sort of "geek culture" has become mainstream. Movies based on comic books dominate the box office, hit TV shows like "Lost" (and to a lesser extent "Heroes") operate as a serials, rewarding rabid fandom once associated only with "cult" media, and so-called nostalgic products are everywhere, much of it obviously for adults. You can go into Target or Wal-Mart and buy an adult-sized Transformers t-shirt, or Joker t-shirt, or even a friggin' Ghostbusters t-shirt. Even 5 years ago getting something like that in an adult size would require a trip to the mall or comic shop or internet retailer, which some people might see as too geeky. With widespread availability and acceptance, its a way to celebrate your fandom that doesn't require purchasing a children's toy, which is a stigma some people don't want to associate themselves with. So they buy a t-shirt that was clearly made for adults that they can wear proudly, and its as "meant for adults" as a $150 porcelain statue of Grimlock in robot mode. It all comes out in the wash.

More power to you and stuff but I think exactly the opposite. If Gentle Giant had a brick & mortar store I'd never leave it.

Nah, the mindset Buddykiller speaks of existed way before geek got mainstream.

But that mindset couldn't really exist without the internet. So its, what, 10 years old, tops?

After thinking things over, I think they have the TF mindset down. Look at Animated. They have Optimus Prime for every single subline. Activator, Bumper Battler, Deluxe (x2), Voyager and Supreme. I bet they'll be more itarations as well. Why? Because Hasbro knows there's a niche completist market in this. They know certain people will buy every single Optimus Prime that they kick out. I think it shows. Same for Bulkhead or Bumblebee. When fans stop buying the same character in every class code for the same line, they'll stop that strategy. Remember, Hasbro is in this to make money. They really could care less what collectors want unless it's guaranteed profit.

Now, someone is going to try to shoot me down and say something like "What about BotCon seekers?" I think Hasbro played the fans on that too while giving a premium marketing move to TFCC. Worked out rather well.




A fellow GG fan.... sweet!

Right, I see what you're saying. But have you gotten an annual fans' choice figure? or even 2 or 3 a year? Oh wait, no you haven't because HASBRO HAS NEVER GIVEN TF FANS THAT SAME OPPORTUNITY that they give SW fans.

And really, EVERYONE wants ALL THEIR TOYS to have better articulation. That's a no-brainer, not a fan-driven product.

The internet certainly helped it explode - as it has so many things - but the mindset is older than ten years, although not by much. I remember the comic book stores having all those Marvel + DC adult aimed statues and stuff when we were tykes. Fifteen, maybe twenty years, but no older.

Although adults have been collecting child's toys since forever. Barbie dolls and old wind up toys from the fifties and sixties and Matchbox cars and stuff like that.

None of this helps me understand the mindset, though. I think the "adult collectibles" producers have a lot of fan angst to answer for - "Cartoon show aimed at kids? No, it's a mature and rich myth, full of subtextual layers and political intrigue...I offer my pewter statue of Unicron as proof. Kids can't afford a $180 pewter statue. So, you see, I'm an adult. Fuck Micheal Bay for not understanding that."

Well now you're just opening the whole "taking Fiction X too seriously as an adult" can of worms. What's light and fluffy to some is an obsession to others. Think about it: somewhere there are couples who want to name their kids after aspects of the Whedonverse, just like somewhere there people hankering for a set of Great Gatsby cold-cast porcelain statues. Both notions are inherently ridiculous to some people and completely sane to others.

Not at all. Take it as seriously as you want, just recognize what it is and who it's intended for - not being a part of the target demographic doesn't mean you can't enjoy it to the Nth degree. Just don't pretend it's something it isn't.

And naming the kids "Xander and Willow" was the wife's idea.

FWIW, if we have two girls, I get to name the second one "Teela."

If it's two boys, I'm trying to get approval for the first and middle name of our second son to be "Thomas Magnum."

Oh, let 'em have their fun, Gramps. Transformers has about 900 different official continuities as it stands anyway...there's no reason one or two can't be complex and deep and have ancillary products to reflect that.

And I pity the children of nerds.

HOW DID PEOPLE SURVIVE BEFORE THE INNERNETS

Thank you! This man speaks sense.
Hasbro gives us Alts, North American releases of MPs, Classics/Universe, G1 homages in every line, and a show that's filled with G1 fanwank and yet we still act like spoilt brats.

Hasbro gives us, 15% of a market based on a Saturday morning tv show aimed at kids, all of this attention and the fandom responds with comments like "I feel ignored as a collector" and "Transformers is the red-headed step-child of the Hasbro family"?
What does that say about us? Why would Hasbro continue to pander to such an ungrateful group of malcontents?
Sometimes I'm honestly surprised they haven't just said "F the collectors." The way the fandom acts as a whole they would be justified in doing so.
I mean come on people! Look at the new Universe 25th Ann. figures Hasbro previewed at SDCC. Cyclonus and Nightstick, Hound and Ravage that fits in G1 Soundwave's chest, Inferno. Then there's the Universe/Classics releases like Ironhide. The fandom has been demanding a proper G1 Ironhide toy since, well, G1. Hasbro delivers just that with Universe/Classics.

We even get releases of figures from a line that while popular, was so unsuccessful it was cancelled with Ti WW Prowl and WW Grimlock. If Hasbro didn't care about TFans would those figures have been released?

So yes, and enjoy being a fan. Because whether you're into the new look (Movie and Animated) or the traditional stuff (Universe) it's a fantastic time to be a TF collector.

Exactly. I don't want die-cast statues or overly complex puzzle figures that would reduce an 8 year old to tears. I want toys. I'm a toy collector.

And as much as Transformers has grown, it's still a franchise rooted in Saturday morning cartoons that are little more then toy commercials. Star Wars, meanwhile, has six blockbusters behind it and a collectors market that dwarfs ours.

In answer to the original question though; When TFers has a movie in theatres Transformers > Star Wars to Hasbro. When Star Wars has a movie in theatres Star Wars > Transformers to Hasbro. When neither have a movie on the big screen they're both just brands that keep Hasbro's vaults full.

I can really see the reverse of this conversation occurring a year ago on a Star Wars fan message board.
"Man this sucks. Hasbro's giving all the attention to Transformers. So what if it has a blockbuster movie in theatres. It's still just a kiddie brand. Star Wars is where the real money's at. Hasbro must hate us. I feel ignored as a Star Wars collector."

Hyper-Terminal

when we have a son we're naming it Damien Xavier, and yes, Xavier is from professor x damien is from the bible XD i couldn't believe that my wife agreed to it, i was so happy. we haven't decided on a girl name yet, but if we end up having two sons, i'm going to try to get Szandor in there.

back on topic, the point is that hasbro bends over backwards for star wars collectors, but they absolutely refuse to do anything just for transformers collectors. they could have offered mp prime and reissue prime without nuetering the stacks and missiles and they could even offer mp megs if they'd just market it for collectors.