Of the decepticons on When you think "decepticon", who do you think of and why. personally i pick starscream, he's doublecrossing, disloyal, ambitious and self-serving. in my opinion the word "decepticon" just sounds like someone with his qualities. what do you guys think?

All Hail Megatron!

Megatron. He's everything a Decepticon leader should be and then some!

this isn't about leadership for me, its about decepticon qualities. unless you count leadership as a qualification to be a decepticon. if so, what other qualities make him the best representative of the name decepticon? what I'm driving at is who best represents the idea of a decepticon. some might think that lugnut who is wholly devoted to Megs is perfect for his devotion. I think the opposite is true. for me a decepticon by definition cannot be trusted.

To me a Decepticon is one that is dedicated to the Decepticon cause - to the expansion of the Decepticon Empire; in the footsteps of other great Decepticons such as Trannis, Megatron (G1/G2 & BW/BM), Galvatron, Straxus, Thunderwing, Bludgeon, Jhiaxus and the Liege Maximo. In other words conquest. IMO Megatron is the most successful of the Animated Decepticons in terms of working toward this goal.

"Decepticons forever!"

If we're talking TF:A, the most deserving would be more like Starscream. Pure deception and treachery.

Encompassing other shows, I rather think the most deserving was Megatron from Beast Wars. Yessss...

Much as I like... well, ALL the 'Cons, Megatron's definitely the purest, truest Decepticon, IMO.

He's big, ridiculously powerful, and continuously makes it veryveryvery dangerous to be his enemy, for one thing. (Unlike, uh, EVERY OTHER MEGATRON EVER, he DOES kill Starscream. Repeatedly. It's not his fault that it didn't stick. ) He's deception'd his way into Sumdac's trust, never letting the fact that he was only a head bother him or get in the way of his scheming, and deceived Starscream when Screamer didn't know he knew Screamer had betrayed him, spread the Autobot forces thin, built a SPACE BRIDGE from incomplete specs-- not to mention holding off a half-dozen Seekers and half the Earth-bound Autobots at the same time.

He's tricky, badass, charismatic and evil-- and one of the best villains ever. <3

Based on the poll description: Starscream

Megatron (thankfully) is too much like a military dictator with some sense of purpose and honor to his cause or to that of the Decepticon cause.

But as far as a true Decepticon Starscream all the way. I don't much like the character (i never did), I found him annoying.

Blackarachnia is a spitting distance away from becoming an Autobot.

Lockdown just learned that Decepticons don't pay their bills and their infighting is more than annoying. He also has too much respect for the Autobots.

The rest of the Cons are just plain lame...dumb.

To those who don't say Megatron, I'd like to point out that he maintains a double agent on Cybertron, played Sumdac like a fiddle for an entire season, convinced the Constructicons he was a good guy, and ultimately does just as much, if not more scheming than Screamer. Megatron just doesn't scheme against his own side.

And that right there is why Starscream ranks higher.

Why does being a traitor have to be a hallmark for being a Decepticon? Most of the greatest Decepticons in history aren't treacherous. If anything, the Decepticon faction would wipe itself out if all Decepticons were treacherous - much like what happened to the Sith, thus forcing them to adopt the Rule of Two as a means of survival (unlike the Jedi who can exist in tens of thousands because they're not all out to betray each other).


"Always two there are, no more, no less." - Yoda (The Phantom Menace)

well it worked pretty good for the sith...just sayin.

but as far as treachery and being a good decepticon. I would say the name, it should mean something. not just "the bad guys". Decepticons. anyone brandishing the name who wouldn't knock of the boss to take his spot really should switch side IMO. same with cobra in gi joe.

Agreed!

Not scheming against your own side is what I meant when I said Megatron Actually Has Honor....

Treachery did not work for the Sith. That's why the Rule of Two was created, to prevent the Sith from potentially wiping themselves out into extinction again. It wasn't the Jedi that nearly drove the Sith to the brink of utter extinction - it was themselves. And the same would happen to the Decepticons if they were all backstabbing.

Treachery is also actually forbidden under Decepticon law. Traditionally under Decepticon law you become leader by becoming a champion in gladiatorial combat. Megatron first became leader as a champion gladiator in the Cybertronian city-state of Tarn. Megaplex* claimed leadership of the Decepticons on Cybertron by defeating Quake (as a representative of the Triumvirate who were too cowardly to fight Megaplex directly) in gladiatorial combat (The Fall and Rise of the Decepticon Empire).


It's never been implied in any TF canon that being a Decepticon necessarily meant being treacherous toward their own kind. That just doesn't make any sense to me. How could an army possible function let alone sustain an empire with all that in-fighting? At best you'd end up with something like feudal China; a relatively well-maintained closed-off empire but unable to adequately expand for further conquest. The Chinese could've easily conquered the world during the Song Dynasty if not for in-fighting with Confucianists, centuries before the world would ever see the Spanish Conquistadors or British Navy (which were far more successful as invading imperials due to being relatively more unified amongst themselves compared to the Chinese).

In the movie comics it's stated that the name Decepticons was given to them by the Autobots because of their treachery against the Autobots - i.e.: that they are all autonomous robotic organisms (Autobots) but those who chose to follow Megatron's separatist movement were labelled as "Decepticons." I'm not sure how that really makes sense in terms of translating from Cybertronian to English - because that's kinda hard to do from English to other Earth languages let alone to an alien language - and I think that's why the movie itself didn't touch upon the meaning of "Decepticon."


Why would a Decepticon leader tolerate an army full of traitors? One of the things I like about Animated Megatron is that he refuses to further suffer a traitor like Starscream! Starscream's presence in G1/G2 was barely tolerable from the POV of other Decepticons. Remember the outrage from the Decepticons when Scorponok decided to accept Starscream into their ranks? He told his fellow Decepticons that the only reason he did it was because their ranks were badly depleted on Earth and that Starscream's power was welcome reinforcements - but at the same time he tried to assure other Decepticons that he had Starscream "on the tightest of leashes." In fact, Starscream's presence was intentionally used to provoke dissent amongst the Decepticons as part of Shockwave's separatist movement against Scorponok.

An army of traitors? That seems kinda illogical to me. If you were the leader of an army would you want your soldiers to all be treacherous? If anything you want undying loyalty from your troops. And it doesn't matter if your army is "good" or "evil" - that's just what you want. Look at the Clone Troopers in Star Wars (who switched from being "good" to "evil" when they converted from Republic to Imperial Troopers after Order 66) - they were genetically engineered and conditioned to be absolutely loyal; to obey orders without question or even second thought. Order 66 required many clones to kill Jedi, who were not only their superior officers in battle, but had become close friends to many Jedi during the Clone Wars. Just look at the camaraderie between Obi-Wan Kenobi and Commander Cody, yet it was Cody who gave the order to "blast him!" And it worked so well that with the exception of Yoda, none of the Jedi even felt a tremour in the Force and thus didn't see the betrayal coming because the Clones had become intimately trusted and held NO malice will against the Jedi when they attacked them. They were just following another order - unquestioning like professional killers.

"It will be done my Lord."

Even an evil army demands loyalty

And again, with very very few exceptions like Starscream - most Decepticons are NOT treacherous. Not even Shockwave really. Shockwave only sought to overthrow Megatron only when he felt that logic dictated it! Megatron was at times able to convince Shockwave out of overthrowing him by defeating him in a logical argument! Ultimately Shockwave did betray Megatron, but not through greed - only because he felt that relieving Megatron from command was the most logical course of action. And there have been moments where Megatron also agreed to Shockwave's logic and allowed him to temporarily assume leadership (although usually to bide time to retake it off Shockwave). But that's more like a political game of chess rather than actually trying to backstab each other (so it's not "treachery" really). Shockwave was always loyal to his perception of the Decepticon cause - it's just that it sometimes required relieving Megatron of command.

Starscream on the other hand was acting purely for self-empowerment, Decepticon cause be damned - as was brilliantly demonstrated in the Underbase Saga when he single-handedly killed countless Transformers; Autobots and Decepticons - he made no distinction. He did likewise in G2 when he used the powers of the Matrix and Warworld.

On the whole the vast majority of Decepticons are not treacherous against the Decepticon cause or its leader. Just look at the 1984 Decepticons...
+ Starscream = treacherous
+ Skywarp = incredibly loyal
+ Thundercracker = apathetic but no history of betrayal
+ Rumble = loyal
+ Frenzy = loyal
+ Laserbeak = very loyal
+ Buzzsaw = loyal
+ Ravage = incredibly loyal (as he proved in Beast Wars) - although like Shockwave he will act against a Decepticon leader if he feels that it is in the best interests of the Decepticon cause.
+ Soundwave = appears to be very loyal (but in reality is manipulative and self-serving), but no history of treachery against any Decepticon leader or the cause.

...and keep going on until you hit 1993. You'll notice that the overwhelming majority of Decepticons do NOT have any history of treachery or questionable loyalty. If anything, treachery was something that made Starscream unique and distinct amongst Decepticons - he is often remembered as the treacherous one.

____________________________
*Megatron's clone created by Straxus. I retroactively call him "Megaplex" but it's not official. Disclaimer'd!

Treason is not necessary a hallmark of Decepticons, but I feel that deceit is, given the name. And Animated Megs (as well as IDW and BW Megs) manage plenty of deceit. That, combined with his overwhelming power (and lust for more) makes him the most Decepticonny Decepticon.

But I see where everyone is coming from, Goki. Because a very Decepticon trait is a desire for power. And willingness to usurp power from the leader demonstrates this trait quite strongly. It also usually demonstrates deception, although not always (G1 Screamer's schemes were mostly... shoot Megatron, announce he's leader. Sometimes skip the shoot Megatron part. Not subtle).

all that's great but here in the real world we all know the name was given by the makers cuz it sounds like deception. using past tf history is pointless. its about the name itself, thus the title of the thread. Most people don't think of all that crap when they hear decepticon. my question is which one in Animated is best suited to have the title. I guess we just have differing opinions on "evil" ever hear of the turtle and the snake?

soundwinders argument makes sense. I can see where that would be a good point. I guess if Megs threw Lugnut under the bus, I'd need to change my vote.

the sith didn't stop being treacherous after the 2 man rule either. remember when vader asked luke to join him and overthrow the emperor?

I was trying to illustrate what it actually means to be a Decepticon at an actual real level, rather than a superficial level.

Even if we look at existing Animated continuity alone, the Decepticons clearly do not tolerate treachery. As I've said, one thing I really like about Animated Megatron over his predecessors is the way that he absolutely refused to tolerate Starscream's treachery. And even amongst the ranks of the Animated Decepticons Starscream is the only one who's been consistently treacherous.
e.g.
Lugnut = incredibly loyal
Blitzwing = loyal
Blackarachnia = often acts independently, but no history of treachery against the Decepticons
Constructicons = loyal (Sharkticon-style loyalty, but loyal nonetheless )
Swindle = untrustworthy but not actively treacherous
Lockdown = apathetic but no history of treachery (cos Decepticons pay better )
Shockwave = very loyal
Soundwave = went rogue, but wasn't treacherous. Like G1 Shockwave acted in what he believed was the most logical course of action

Out of all the Animated Decepticons Starscream is the only one with a history of consistent open treachery and consequently has been rejected by Megatron and his fellow Decepticons (even his own clones!). The Clones did betray Starscream - but that seemed to be because they realised that following Megatron was a wiser choice. It's too early to tell whether they're actively treacherous - it'll depend on whether or not they follow Starscream's lead and attempt to usurp Megatron (even then small surprise considering that they are clones of Starscream after all). But yeah... there's no evidence to really show that treachery is a valued trait amongst the Animated Decepticons... if anything, the Animated Decepticons have shown the least tolerance for betrayal compared to other continuities.

Then there's Beast Wars Megatron who allowed his underlings to be treacherous and used them to his own advantage (that's why he's my favourite Megatron of all time)


No, but it sounds kinky. Historically there has been heroic Decepticons (e.g.: G1 Scorponok) and evil Autobots (e.g.: Flame) (and no, "Shattered Glass" doesn't count here). Even within continuity - e.g.: you have Sentinel Prime who's an Autobot of very questionable morality (he is very much amoral). You have Blackarachnia who's a Decepticon with some good inside her. You have Lockdown who is effectively neutral. So is Swindle to some degree (he wouldn't hesitate to gun run for the Autobots if they were willing to pay his price).



By that logic then the most deserving Autobots are just ones that transform into automobiles. Which makes Omega Supreme the least deserving Autobot because he's a starship. It'd make Bumblebee and Jazz the most deserving because they're the only ones that transform into cars.


That's right, in order for Luke to become a Sith they would need to eliminate Palpatine. And when Palpatine was pitting Luke and Vader up against each other, he knew that only one would survive the fight; ideally for Luke to kill Vader and take his father's place by his side. Whether Luke killed Vader or if together they killed Palpatine was irrelevant. Either way if Luke became a Sith one of the existing Sith would have to die, thus maintaining the Rule of Two and balance within the Sith order. Anakin only became Vader after Dooku was killed. And Dooku only became a Sith after Darth Maul was killed. The Rule of Two is always maintained.

___

Ultimately it seems that answering this poll greatly depends on what you think it means to be a Decepticon, and as we've seen there are differing views on it. You believe that being a Decepticon means being deceitful. I think it's about serving the Decepticon cause. And there's another one - about being evil and sheer badassery, in which case you're looking at a whole different brand of Decepticons such as Galvatron (G1 comics) and Jhiaxus.

Your original question never specified any single definition of what it means to be a Decepticon. You merely asked:

So I answered that I think Megatron is the most deserving of the name "Decepticon" because I believe he is acting in the best interests of the Decepticon Empire and their goal of conquest. Someone else could even vote on that poll based on their toy preference - and I don't have Leader Megatron yet, so I can't comment on that toy. Amongst what Animated toys I do have I'd say my favourite Decepticon would be Blackarachnia (simple yet elegant in design, even if the peg on the web/claw gun on mine is poorly sculpted (slightly oversized and prone to popping off too easy)). So yeah, your question is open to interpretation.

Perhaps you should've asked "Who do you think is the most deceitful Decepticon?" ? *shruggles*

auto can be many things besides a car. decept is pretty much cut and dry. but we disagree I'm ok with that.

there are many variations on the story but basically. there's this snake needs across the river so he asks the turtle for a lift. turtle agrees but makes snake promise not to bite him. they get to the other side and BAM snake bites him. as he's dying turtle asks "why did you do that after you promised. snake says "you knew I was a snake why would you trust my word?" turtle dies,

why have an army named for deception and expect them to be honest?

*still thinks screamer is more pure decepticon than anyone*

As I see it, it's because they deceived and betrayed the Autobots - not necessarily themselves (lest their faction tears itself apart from the inside like the Sith Lords of Olde). It's like say being part of a rebellion - you're classified as "rebels" from the POV of the existing government, but you're not really about rebelling against yourselves. For example the Rebel Alliance in Star Wars (also known as the Alliance to Restore the Republic) was given that name because they were rebelling against the Empire in an effort to restore democracy. It didn't mean that the Rebels were all about being rebellious!

"You Rebel scum!"


Anyway... we have different ideas of what it means to be a Decepticon. Both our opinions are based on personal preferences rather than irrefutable facts and I think we all know that debates based on personal preferences are just acts of futility (e.g.: FIRRIB/FIBRIR) so let's agree to disagree.

For me I'm gauging from the purist of evil...starscream is pure evil to that regard thus filling out the meaning of being a decepticon. Most all of the previous megatrons were no better than starscream and were pretty self serving...and were greedy to the point of sacrificing their own men. this animated megs (so far) does not seem that way. He's a true leader and is just straight military.

Harsh reality check: troops are expendable. This is something that military leaders/tacticians must realise. They may not like it but they must be aware of it (e.g.: Optimus Prime).

You're not even wearing a name tag. You might as well just give up right now. [/Austin Powers]

Anyway I say Shockwave, for two reasons. Firstly he's loyal to the Decepticon cause.
Secondly he's been able to deceive the Autobots like no other. He's not only convinced them he's a loyal Autobot, he's also managed to climb to the rank of Prime and the head of the Autobot's intelligence agency.

Yeah, that's a good point. Outside of Animated I would also lump Doubledealer in that category (things have gotten interesting with him in the IDW comics ).

I remember a Star Trek Next Gen episode where counselor Troi kept failing the commander training because she couldn't figure out you have to send people to their deaths intentionally

Starscream. he's pure Decepticon. He had the balls (or whatever they have) to plant a bomb on the Decepticon leader, and shot the Autobot supreme leader in the face. He's also fun to watch get slagged every now and then Any way he's both the best Starscream ever and the truest to the Decepticon standards.

If Starscream is the true rolemodel for each and every single Decepticon warriors, I'm sure they wouldn't have last much longer after their initial foundation. Megatron and Shockwave are the true rolemodels for other Decepticons to keep up with, not some disrespected and faithless second-in-command.

What makes Decepticon could stand and fight the Autobots for a long time are strong leadership, not constant backstab and betrayals. And when you've pledged your allegiance to the Decepticons, you've pledged your servos to fight for the Decepticon cause till the last spill of Energon. And Starscream did not qualify for that because although he tends to rant about how he should've lead and carry on the Decepticons' cause, that's not his true motives at all. What drives him is simple, his own greed above all else.

So hands down, All hail Megatron.

Wanted: proto-typical Decepticon. Applicant must enjoy causing Autobots as much trouble and mayhem as possible. A mentally-unbalanced individual is preferable. Some purple coloration is also required. (because Purple is EEEEE-VILLE!). Unquestionably following orders is desirable, but not necessary (especially when applicant is easily side-tracked into causing afore-mentioned Autobot trouble/mayhem).

*votes for Blitzwing*

the main problem with saying that is that Megatron doesn't and shouldn't have to plot against his own side, and if he finds out the bot in question is personally dealt with. When Megatron is kinaiving and decieving he puts on a much better display of false honesty than Starscream, he is much more effective and refined than Starscream who you can always tell is plotting something, and reveals his plans far too early on in the game when he doesn't have most of the required information.

Megatron wins this by a long long way.

I like this telling of Megatron and Starscream more so than any I've seen... and it's kind of hard..

The sensible joice for me would be Megatron, because he is the big guy in charge for a reason. Starscream is still an upitty bastard that would shoot you in the back to get what he wants.. deception, yes.. but effective leadership? Hardly. Tarantulus (in all his unrelated coolness) was the master at this tactic. He didn't NEED to shoot people in order to get what he needed. Always scheming, always plotting.. always hidden.

I don't like to think of the decepticons as one huge group of backstabbers in it purely for their own gain.. because it's totally not true. Yeah... I think Megatron is the decepticons for me.

"Sometimes deception is the better part of valour." - Megatron (Beast Wars)

Four words: solemn face, solemn face ...

BEST LINE EVAR!!!

That just proves how much of an Idiotic dipstick he is. Especially if the traitor is standin right there

Back on subject:

I know Megs is the "leader" but why does that automatically make him the number 1 'Con? It should be someone who is the main Decepticon trait: Deceptive. And that's Starscream. He deceives Megatron into thinking he could trust him, and he deceives all the other 'Cons Into thinking he's died of "natural" causes. And he deceives everyone with his clones and tries to blow them up.

And here's Mrs. Webster to prove my "grammicly correctness"

3: cheat
4: to cause to accept as true or valid what is false or invalid
5: to give a false impression





And he shot Ultra Magnus in the face. He can't deal with that right now.

That's actually only two words repeated.[/nerd]

Starscream is good but I have to say Megatron. He was able to keep his location a secret from the Autobot through all of season 1 even though he revealed himself to Sumdac. He has Lugnut licking his feet although he could give a Ratsassbad about him. He gained the loyalty of the Constructicons. He also has to respect of an army of Decepticons. Whom also, he could give a Ratsassbag about truely.

Let's see Screamer do that.

does the word "seekers" come to mind?

Oh, yes, he totally gained their undying loyalty. They would NEVER abandon him to serve at Megatron's side!

Yah can't spell Decepticon without Decept...



Starscrean FT

Megatron ATW!

Cos Decept is a word. ;p You also can't spell Decepticon without "Con." Does that mean they're all Greek? (if anything the Autobots are more Greek in terms of socio-political structure)

Ελλά πάμε γά καfέ!

I would say Starscream but hes barely a Decepticon in the shows' storyline (mostly works by himself). So, Megatron.