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Buddykiller
AND THE GODDAMNED DEMOCRATS HAVE THEIR HEAD UP THERE ASS AND WON'T COMPLY!

Source: Yahoo! News

QUOTE
WASHINGTON - With gasoline topping $4 a gallon, President Bush urged Congress on Wednesday to lift its long-standing ban on offshore oil and gas drilling, saying the United States needs to increase its energy production. Democrats quickly rejected the idea.
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"There is no excuse for delay," the president said in a statement in the Rose Garden. With the presidential election just months away, Bush made a pointed attack on Democrats, accusing them of obstructing his energy proposals and blaming them for high gasoline costs. His proposal echoed a call by Republican presidential candidate John McCain to open the Continental Shelf for exploration

"Families across the country are looking to Washington for a response," Bush said.

Congressional Democrats were quick to reject the push for lifting the drilling moratorium, saying oil companies already have 68 million acres offshore waters under lease that are not being developed.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi called Bush's proposals "another page from (an)... energy policy that was literally written by the oil industry — give away more public resources."

Sen. Barack Obama, the Democrats' presumptive presidential nominee, rejected lifting the drilling moratorium that has been supported by a succession of presidents for nearly two decades.

"This is not something that's going to give consumers short-term relief and it is not a long-term solution to our problems with fossil fuels generally and oil in particular," said Obama. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, lumping Bush with McCain, accused them of staging a "cynical campaign ploy" that won't help lower energy prices.

"Despite what President Bush, John McCain and their friends in the oil industry claim, we cannot drill our way out of this problem," Reid said. "The math is simple: America has just three percent of the world's oil reserves, but Americans use a quarter of its oil."

White House spokesman Tony Fratto retorted: "Anyone out there saying that something can be done overnight, or in a matter of months, to deal with high gasoline prices is trying to fool people. There is no tool in the toolbox out there that will lower gas prices overnight, or in weeks, or probably not even in months."

Bush said offshore drilling could yield up to 18 billion barrels of oil over time, although it would take years for production to start. Bush also said offshore drilling would take pressure off prices over time.


more after the link, but wtf? this failure of a president is actually trying to do his farging job, and he's getting blocked? this is why i hate party politics. the farging environmentalists special interest groups have the entire democratic party in their back pocket.

will it fix our problem overnight? no, but is sure as hell will shut the speculators up that the democratic party are blaming for the high price of gasoline, and this combined with coal to oil production and nuclear energy can make us energy independent in a few years. this is something that should have been done a LONG time ago, and had it been done a long time ago (instead of congress keeping their collective head's up their collective asses, both sides) we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today. by lowering the price of gasoline it'll also lower the cost of food, something thats going to sky rocket thanks to the recent mid-western flooding.

what the farg is wrong with congress, and how do these people continue to be elected?
sertile
The Democratic senate has been a huge disappointment, IMO. HUGE.
Cadogen
Nothing new, Bush has been trying to do this for years....

Self interest and all you know
Lord Madhammer
Most economists believe that lifting the ban on offshore drilling is (like the gas tax holiday) an ineffective gimmick.

Not to mention the fact that the states most likely to be affected are VERY much against it.

But it sounds good to people who don't understand how it all works.

Buddykiller
QUOTE (Lord Madhammer @ Jun 19 2008, 03:38 PM) *
Most economists believe that lifting the ban on offshore drilling is (like the gas tax holiday) an ineffective gimmick.

Not to mention the fact that the states most likely to be affected are VERY much against it.

But it sounds good to people who don't understand how it all works.


it's not THE solution (there is no one solution, but a group of solutions), but it's a step in the right direction to begin the process of solving our nations energy problems. florida and california can batch and moan all they want, but they fail to understand that the oil is going to get drilled out. who do you trust more to drill out the oil, america, or somebody like china, vietnam, or cuba? alaska is begging to tap into it's resources, and from personal experience (and i think capito agrees with me) west virginia would LOVE to contribute coal for coal to oil production. also, if people wouldn't be such asses, nuclear energy would greatly decrease the cost of energy.

the gas tax holiday is nothing more than a hairbrained scheme just like economic stimulus check, but i'm sure that just like that check 90% of americans fail to understand that it only hurts our govt more. the same goes for increasing taxes on oil companies. these "quick fixes" are not going to work because there is no quick fix, which is why we need to begin looking to the future in preparation for things to get worse (which they are).
Lord Madhammer
QUOTE (Buddykiller @ Jun 19 2008, 02:49 PM) *
QUOTE (Lord Madhammer @ Jun 19 2008, 03:38 PM) *
Most economists believe that lifting the ban on offshore drilling is (like the gas tax holiday) an ineffective gimmick.

Not to mention the fact that the states most likely to be affected are VERY much against it.

But it sounds good to people who don't understand how it all works.


it's not the only solution, but it's part of the process for solving our nations energy problems.

We don't have the infrastructure to support this. We need more refineries, and we don't have them. Even Bush says that it'll take years for this to have any impact. And with worldwide demand increasing as it is, tell me what practical difference this would make.

And you know, there's a reason why Florida and California "bitch" about this. One more catastrophic oil spill and you can kiss the tourism industry goodbye in those states.

Cadogen
Reminds me of E85 and Hybrid technologies.... crutches

The real solution is cutting back. And I think that's begun. Just ask GM
Stormtrooper53
QUOTE (Lord Madhammer @ Jun 19 2008, 02:57 PM) *
And you know, there's a reason why Florida and California "batch" about this. One more catastrophic oil spill and you can kiss the tourism industry goodbye in those states.

In the last 25 years, less than .001% of the 7 billion barrels we have gotten from offshore drilling has been spilled.
There has not been a major oil spill from an offshore well for almost 40 years.

FYI and stufs.
Lord Madhammer
QUOTE (Stormtrooper53 @ Jun 19 2008, 03:09 PM) *
QUOTE (Lord Madhammer @ Jun 19 2008, 02:57 PM) *
And you know, there's a reason why Florida and California "batch" about this. One more catastrophic oil spill and you can kiss the tourism industry goodbye in those states.

In the last 25 years, less than .001% of the 7 billion barrels we have gotten from offshore drilling has been spilled.
There has not been a major oil spill from an offshore well for almost 40 years.

FYI and stufs.

Yeah, that "almost 40 years" part... People remember the Santa Barbara oil spill.

But my point isn't to be an advocate for CA or FL. I'm just pointing out that there is strong opposition to offshore drilling in those states.

And Blitz-wing is right, the answer isn't MOAR OIL but LESS CONSUMPTION, it's going to have to be. The writing's on the wall.
ROSEDOGGYDOG
hey BK and I agree again.
Lord Madhammer
QUOTE (ROSEDOGGYDOG @ Jun 19 2008, 03:13 PM) *
hey BK and I agree again.

Your candidate disagreed with both of you in 2000.

that was before he snipped his nuts off and threw them to the conservatives, though.
Stormtrooper53
QUOTE (Lord Madhammer @ Jun 19 2008, 03:12 PM) *
And Blitz-wing is right, the answer isn't MOAR OIL but LESS CONSUMPTION, it's going to have to be. The writing's on the wall.

Does it have to be either/or? Why can't we suggest, nay, DEMAND! better fuel efficiency in our vehicles (and we DEMAND with our pocketbooks by not buying fucking Toyota Sequoias*) and build more non-oil dependent energy plants while at the same time trying to increase our supply?

I mean, law of supply and demand. Increase the latter, bad for prices. Increase the former, good for prices. Increase the first and decrease the second only follows, right?

*I just picked this vehicle because they're so damn ugly.
Hobbes-timus Prime
QUOTE (Lord Madhammer @ Jun 19 2008, 12:15 PM) *
that was before he snipped his nuts off and threw them to the conservatives, though.

laughlol.gif

And, Jesus, just build some more modern nuclear plants and watch the dependence on oil go down right away. There is zero need to drill when we have the technology to solve the problem faster and cheaper actively working already.
Lord Madhammer
QUOTE (Stormtrooper53 @ Jun 19 2008, 03:21 PM) *
QUOTE (Lord Madhammer @ Jun 19 2008, 03:12 PM) *
And Blitz-wing is right, the answer isn't MOAR OIL but LESS CONSUMPTION, it's going to have to be. The writing's on the wall.

Does it have to be either/or? Why can't we suggest, nay, DEMAND! better fuel efficiency in our vehicles (and we DEMAND with our pocketbooks by not buying fucking Toyota Sequoias*) and build more non-oil dependent energy plants while at the same time trying to increase our supply?

I mean, law of supply and demand. Increase the latter, bad for prices. Increase the former, good for prices. Increase the first and decrease the second only follows, right?

*I just picked this vehicle because they're so damn ugly.

Look, we're arguing over a drop in the bucket here anyway... the reality is that (since people are inherently selfish) the only way that we will ever really change our ways is if we're forced to. If oil prices get to an intolerably high level, then we will have to do something different.

So I think this is a good thing, really... speaking in the long term, that is. Obviously I don't like spending upwards of $60 to fill up my car, but I know that it will drive innovation and public support for alternative energy.
ROSEDOGGYDOG
QUOTE (Hobbes-timus Prime @ Jun 19 2008, 01:21 PM) *
QUOTE (Lord Madhammer @ Jun 19 2008, 12:15 PM) *
that was before he snipped his nuts off and threw them to the conservatives, though.

laughlol.gif

And, Jesus, just build some more modern nuclear plants and watch the dependence on oil go down right away. There is zero need to drill when we have the technology to solve the problem faster and cheaper actively working already.


agreed too bad each side has f'ck it when the time is right to.
Lord Madhammer
QUOTE (ROSEDOGGYDOG @ Jun 19 2008, 03:29 PM) *
QUOTE (Hobbes-timus Prime @ Jun 19 2008, 01:21 PM) *
QUOTE (Lord Madhammer @ Jun 19 2008, 12:15 PM) *
that was before he snipped his nuts off and threw them to the conservatives, though.

laughlol.gif

And, Jesus, just build some more modern nuclear plants and watch the dependence on oil go down right away. There is zero need to drill when we have the technology to solve the problem faster and cheaper actively working already.


agreed

wat

and FTR agree.gif too
Hobbes-timus Prime
QUOTE (ROSEDOGGYDOG @ Jun 19 2008, 12:29 PM) *
QUOTE (Hobbes-timus Prime @ Jun 19 2008, 01:21 PM) *
QUOTE (Lord Madhammer @ Jun 19 2008, 12:15 PM) *
that was before he snipped his nuts off and threw them to the conservatives, though.

laughlol.gif

And, Jesus, just build some more modern nuclear plants and watch the dependence on oil go down right away. There is zero need to drill when we have the technology to solve the problem faster and cheaper actively working already.


agreed too bad each side has f'ck it when the time is right to.

You agree there's zero need to drill? Then, by extension, that means you agree the Democrats were right to shoot the bill down.

Rosedoggy...Democrats...right...


Edit: Even better.
Lord Madhammer
QUOTE (Hobbes-timus Prime @ Jun 19 2008, 03:32 PM) *
QUOTE (ROSEDOGGYDOG @ Jun 19 2008, 12:29 PM) *
QUOTE (Hobbes-timus Prime @ Jun 19 2008, 01:21 PM) *
QUOTE (Lord Madhammer @ Jun 19 2008, 12:15 PM) *
that was before he snipped his nuts off and threw them to the conservatives, though.

laughlol.gif

And, Jesus, just build some more modern nuclear plants and watch the dependence on oil go down right away. There is zero need to drill when we have the technology to solve the problem faster and cheaper actively working already.


agreed too bad each side has f'ck it when the time is right to.

You agree there's zero need to drill? Then, by extension, that means you agree the Democrats were right to shoot the bill down.

Rosedoggy...Democrats...right...

get it right

Stormtrooper53
I could have gone the whole rest of my life without having to see that.
Glue
Yyyyyup.
Lord Madhammer
Allergic to latex?
Stormtrooper53
Based on past experience...


no.
Buddykiller
QUOTE (Hobbes-timus Prime @ Jun 19 2008, 04:21 PM) *
QUOTE (Lord Madhammer @ Jun 19 2008, 12:15 PM) *
that was before he snipped his nuts off and threw them to the conservatives, though.

laughlol.gif

And, Jesus, just build some more modern nuclear plants and watch the dependence on oil go down right away. There is zero need to drill when we have the technology to solve the problem faster and cheaper actively working already.


what's that? build more nuclear plants? in this day and age of a fear mongering media that as soon as congress approves it they're going to go ZOMG NOOOOOOO THREE MILE ISLAND, CHERNOBYL, WE'RE ALL GONNA fargING DIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEE.

that and as previously stated, the goddamned congress is in the pocket of the farging environmentalists who are just gonna scream the same farging thing.

i'm not just saying that offshore drilling and increasing our oil production is the cure, because it's not, but it can be a much needed tourniquet. it's like stormtrooper said, why can't we do both? i know that i'm not going to be able to buy a brand spanking new car for some damn time, and ALOT of america is in my position. right now the only affordable alternative is a hybrid vehicle, and apart from looking like ass, they're all crazy expensive. hydrogen vehicles aren't going to be widely available for quite some time due to construction costs. on top of that we'd have to change our entire fuel infrastructure, which is expensive and excludes a good number of americans.

note that i'm not saying we need to stop developing these technologies because as pete said, the writting is on the wall, AND HAS BEEN FOR A LONG fargING TIME. if our country would have learned from past oil shortages and been working with japanese and european companies we wouldn't be having this problem. so let us learn from the past, increase our oil production, and work along side these companies to decrease our dependency on fossil fuel. also, corn ethanol, can we just put that shot to rest already?

EDIT

on a light note, google image search chernobyl with safe search off, lol
Hobbes-timus Prime
QUOTE (Buddykiller @ Jun 19 2008, 01:16 PM) *
i'm not just saying that offshore drilling and increasing our oil production is the cure, because it's not, but it can be a much needed tourniquet.

We'd bleed to death before this particular tourniquet does any good. There is zero reason to drill that has to do with actually impacting oil prices for the people of America.

Sometimes the environmental movement is right...even if it's for the wrong reasons.
Lord Madhammer
I don't have a problem with what you're saying, BK... I just don't think it would do any good.
Buddykiller
it wouldn't have an immediate impact, but not only could it clear the way for other means of oil production (coal to oil, sheal, etc...) it will help us in a few years time. also, as i said, if we don't use it now somebody else will, and we'll be buying it from them when we could have had it for free in the first place.
Stormtrooper53
QUOTE (Buddykiller @ Jun 19 2008, 04:16 PM) *
on a light note, google image search chernobyl with safe search off, lol


Glue
QUOTE (Buddykiller @ Jun 19 2008, 01:23 PM) *
it wouldn't have an immediate impact, but not only could it clear the way for other means of oil production (coal to oil, sheal, etc...) it will help us in a few years time. also, as i said, if we don't use it now somebody else will, and we'll be buying it from them when we could have had it for free in the first place.

Well... unless we lose our own territory or allow someone else to drill out the oil from sufficiently adjacent territory, we can't really lose what we don't drill to another nation..

The only way oil prices could be meaningfully affected is by halting or undoing the adverse inflation we've suffered. Drilling for oil would only be productive if we drilled enough to produce/export that to the world (similar to what Canada has started doing), thereby strengthening the USD and alleviating that much pressure from the current premiums we're paying per barrel over and above that dictated by world supply & demand (the rest would require stability in the Middle East -- of which, we only have so much control over such as the Iraq war).

The idea for countering inflation suffers from the problem that we're averse to a deflationary spiral. As for drilling enough oil to become a net producer, there's a fat chance of that happening being the largest consumer of oil in the world for both gas and products. And that's not considering the existing burden on the USD from our import/export ratio.
Lord Madhammer
FYI

QUOTE
[Florida] Republican House Speaker Marco Rubio said in an interview with the Herald that he supports oil drilling off Florida's coast "if it can be done in a manner that's safe for our environment.'' But he challenged Gov. Charlie Crist and John McCain's implication that drilling could lower gas prices anytime soon.

"For anyone to represent that someone drilling off the coast in Florida is going to lower gas prices here or anywhere in this country is disingenuous and a flawed argument,'' he said. "Oil drilling could take 10 years before any oil is pulled out of the ground, and there are a large number of leases held by oil companies that are not being exploited now. We can't say we need more until we've exploited those.''

Rubio said he dislikes how the issue over oil drilling is portrayed as "black and white" because he believes there is a middle ground that can help the nation achieve more energy independence while not harming the environment.

"If our beaches are going to be polluted and oil is going to end up on our shores, I'm against it,'' he said. "But I do believe that we have an obligation to safely exploit our natural resources in this country and I believe we have the technology to accomplish that.''
Hobbes-timus Prime
QUOTE (Glue @ Jun 19 2008, 01:58 PM) *
QUOTE (Buddykiller @ Jun 19 2008, 01:23 PM) *
it wouldn't have an immediate impact, but not only could it clear the way for other means of oil production (coal to oil, sheal, etc...) it will help us in a few years time. also, as i said, if we don't use it now somebody else will, and we'll be buying it from them when we could have had it for free in the first place.

Well... unless we lose our own territory or allow someone else to drill out the oil from sufficiently adjacent territory, we can't really lose what we don't drill to another nation..

Cadogen
QUOTE (Stormtrooper53 @ Jun 19 2008, 01:21 PM) *
Does it have to be either/or? Why can't we suggest, nay, DEMAND! better fuel efficiency in our vehicles (and we DEMAND with our pocketbooks by not buying fucking Toyota Sequoias*) and build more non-oil dependent energy plants while at the same time trying to increase our supply?

I mean, law of supply and demand. Increase the latter, bad for prices. Increase the former, good for prices. Increase the first and decrease the second only follows, right?

*I just picked this vehicle because they're so damn ugly.


Last time I checked, building more fuel efficient vehicles decreased demand. You gotta think simply. You either increase or decrease demand. Increasing fuel efficiency decreases demand. Decreasing demand doesn't mean "OMGZ! I GOTZTA USE LESS OF MAH CAR AND MOARS OF PUBLIC TRANSIT OR MAH FOOTZ!!" It means making more sensible use of the resource, whether by conservation or increasing efficiency.
Glue
Unfortunately, the efficiency strategy has been limited in its progress and impact. I'm of like mind with LM -- increasing prices are the only practical pressure that will push change, on whatever fronts it occurs.
ROSEDOGGYDOG
QUOTE (Lord Madhammer @ Jun 19 2008, 01:35 PM) *
QUOTE (Hobbes-timus Prime @ Jun 19 2008, 03:32 PM) *
QUOTE (ROSEDOGGYDOG @ Jun 19 2008, 12:29 PM) *
QUOTE (Hobbes-timus Prime @ Jun 19 2008, 01:21 PM) *
QUOTE (Lord Madhammer @ Jun 19 2008, 12:15 PM) *
that was before he snipped his nuts off and threw them to the conservatives, though.

laughlol.gif

And, Jesus, just build some more modern nuclear plants and watch the dependence on oil go down right away. There is zero need to drill when we have the technology to solve the problem faster and cheaper actively working already.


agreed too bad each side has f'ck it when the time is right to.

You agree there's zero need to drill? Then, by extension, that means you agree the Democrats were right to shoot the bill down.

Rosedoggy...Democrats...right...

get it right




Slow down you two...don't go sprinting off to the finish line yet...

I agree that there is the tech. now to not need gasoline for our cars but like I said each side keeps f'cking the other when the time is right so I don't believe we'll see any real progress until at least 2010 when the Chevy Volt comes out.

Until then since none of them are going to really step up to the plate and make the change we'll need to do what is in the best intrest for our country and economy.

*remembers when gas hit $2 a gallon and people called for drilling then*wonders what gas would cost now if we did*
Hobbes-timus Prime
QUOTE (ROSEDOGGYDOG @ Jun 19 2008, 04:17 PM) *
QUOTE (Lord Madhammer @ Jun 19 2008, 01:35 PM) *
QUOTE (Hobbes-timus Prime @ Jun 19 2008, 03:32 PM) *
QUOTE (ROSEDOGGYDOG @ Jun 19 2008, 12:29 PM) *
QUOTE (Hobbes-timus Prime @ Jun 19 2008, 01:21 PM) *
QUOTE (Lord Madhammer @ Jun 19 2008, 12:15 PM) *
that was before he snipped his nuts off and threw them to the conservatives, though.

laughlol.gif

And, Jesus, just build some more modern nuclear plants and watch the dependence on oil go down right away. There is zero need to drill when we have the technology to solve the problem faster and cheaper actively working already.


agreed too bad each side has f'ck it when the time is right to.

You agree there's zero need to drill? Then, by extension, that means you agree the Democrats were right to shoot the bill down.

Rosedoggy...Democrats...right...

get it right




Slow down you two...don't go sprinting off to the finish line yet...

I agree that there is the tech. now to not need gasoline for our cars but like I said each side keeps f'cking the other when the time is right so I don't believe we'll see any real progress until at least 2010 when the Chevy Volt comes out.

Until then since none of them are going to really step up to the plate and make the change we'll need to do what is in the best intrest for our country and economy.

*remembers when gas hit $2 a gallon and people called for drilling then*wonders what gas would cost now if we did*

Oh, thank God. He's back to being a Toby Keith song. I was wondering how I was going to sleep tonight.
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