DISCUSS

I hope Obama wins.

Me too.

I could see it being close, and I could also see it being a blowout.

I predict many moments over the next few months.

I think that if McCain wins (which I consider likely) it will be because people are voting against Obama, rather than for McCain. But that's mainly because I can't come up with a lot of reasons to vote for McCain.

*is voting agin' Obama"

William Kristol: "almost every Republican I’ve talked to is alarmed that the McCain campaign doesn’t seem up to the task of electing John McCain."

I do think that McCain is the best chance the GOP has this year. But he's also in a really tough spot because he has to appease both the Republican base and the independent swing voters he'll need. And with the incumbent Republican president being so dramatically unpopular, that's gonna be difficult to manage.

Yeah, I'm wondering if getting to "take it easy" these last few months are going to affect McCain's game. It's kind of like the BCS where teams finish their season and don't have another game for six weeks, and then they show up all rusty and get trounced by Middle Appalachian State.

Not that Obama is Middle Appalachian State.

For the first time since I've been of voting age, I finally feel like I'm voting for the awesomer of two awesomes rather than the lesser of two sucks. I say this as a 4-year Obama fanboy who recognizes that McCain would still be a very good Preisdent (IMHO). It's almost a pity because in about any other election year I would vote for JM.

Of course, as Stormtrooper will tell you, why vote for a lesser evil?

I may want Obama, but part of me feels that America is still too Racist for a Black President,


which is sad on many levels, the least of which being how NOT black he can be at times

I think questions like "how black is he" are pretty sad too. I recognize the extreme burden of history that's being placed on Obama (and the requisite scrutiny that that entails), but still. I think there's a definite tension between a) wanting to realize Dr. King's dream of judging someone on the content of their character vs. the color of their skin, and b) really wanting to break that color barrier in the White House.

BTW I still think this is the best exchange I've seen on the issue of Obama & blackness:

I'm putting vote for McCain.

*shocking, I know*

well i am not voting for obama because he is a secret muslim


if he would admit it he would get my vote




or something

I think it is much more likely he's a secret Dungeon Master than a secret Muslim.

"VERILY, WE SHALL"

+10 hit points for beating Hillary

*still has to be registered to vote within the city*

All I'm saying is that if we just voted for a straight Great Old One ticket, we could put this bi-partisan bickering behind us.

I'm still bummed Dennis Kusinich and his FLILF of a wife didn't get the nomination. I think a cat welfare program is VERY important...

?

And Hillary better start stumping for Obama. Get those old bitties out to vote for him with her Virginia power.

I so read that as vageyena power the first time .

maybe i did read it correctly since the filter changed it to virginia

?

I sense a Spike Lee movie coming on.

Is this the General Erection Thread because I've got a real problem with morning wood.


Thanks folks I'll be here all week, try the veal!




Seriously though I'm pulling for Obama and though I was originally a Clinton fan I think he'll do a great job for our country.


On the racist front I hope that millions of Honkeys voting for a black man will convince more black people that we really aren't all racists.

I honestly will be utterly gobsmacked if he doesn't win and if racists do manage to thwart him I'm joining the black panthers.

With the level of educated people both in this thread and on this board, I'm actually somewhat surprised/amused by the reactions towards these issues of racism.

1. First off, there are racists in this country. They're our fellow Americans whether we like it or not. They vote. The magnitude of their political power isn't going to diminish simply because the rest of us want it to. So taking a cue from Obama, we have to build on what unites us (something other than race) and not what divides us. You can't just pretend racists don't exist or regard them as just a fringe portion of the population. Nor can you pretend their concerns don't count or are without merit just because they're racist in some way. We're all Americans; we're stuck with each other, for better or worse. The interests of a racist aren't any less legitimate than our own.
2. The moment what divides us starts to overshadow and outweigh the stuff that unites us, unity starts to lose. That's really easy, and it doesn't matter whose fault it is (there are as many or more people who think its your fault as you think it is theirs).
3. A bunch of us here may be voting for Obama for non-racist issues. But there are blacks voting for Obama because he's black, and non-blacks voting against him for the same. For instance, Alameda County here in California was one of the few that voted somewhere in the 80%s for Obama in the primaries (Oakland is 85% black or around there, I believe), while most other counties were typically around 60-30 or closer, mostly for Clinton. Even if there aren't racist intents, race underscores tensions that already do exist, for instance in Oakland. None of the candidates caused this tension, but it is spilling over and affecting the results, as well as impeding the chance for unity.

The point is that it's unproductive for the purposes of unity to simply cast away the reasons voters are voting the way they do as "racism" and then just stop paying attention to it. Politics is all about numbers (the last 2 major elections should have taught us all this much), and these issues and tensions are holding voters back that might otherwise stand together.

...who are you arguing with?

What makes you think I'm arguing? You're the self-proclaimed argumentative one.

Well, "discussing," whatever. It just seems that you're making this big long post in response to a position that nobody here holds.

Oh really? My mistake then. I musta gotten the wrong impression with all the other comments that suggested otherwise.

I just don't know what you're trying to say. I'm trying to follow the logic in your post but I just don't see what issue you're trying to address, or what your proposed solution is.

The issue I was trying to address was the casual dismissal of who voters were supporting because they were "racist".

Well, there are racist people in the country, as you said yourself. Is it not okay to say that?

How does that address the problem of finding some way to unite with them?

So you're suggesting that we find a way to get people who are prejudiced against blacks to vote for a black guy?

Sorry, but IMO the burden's on them to STOP BEING PREJUDICED

Uh yeah... read my post. (If ye don't have time, that's perfectly fine too -- don't read it. But if someone's gonna reply to my position without trying to understand what it is, we're not gonna have a productive conversation. I'd rather you just not read it. We're all busy, or should be with other stuffs besides talking on the Inturnetz.)

Arggh dude. I have read your post, multiple times. And I think you're creating an issue that doesn't exist. Can you be more specific about this problem that you're seeing? Are you saying that we shouldn't call people racist just because they vote against Obama? Or are you saying that we should work together with racists on our common interests?

I think he's saying the latter.

I'm saying there are legitimate concerns, even behind "racism". You seem to feel the best solution is for racists to "get over it". I'm saying, like with angry Muslim nations, that doesn't work. Or you'll be waiting for the entire planet to become enlightened until generations of your descendants are long turned to dust.

...I really don't know if I should seriously respond to this. The thread has been hijacked long enough.

I'm sorry I tried. Yes, we live in a magical country where racists aren't going to affect the outcome of this election at all. This was all off-topic. Enjoy.

Well, come on dude. The stuff you're saying is demonstrably false. Legitimate concerns behind prejudice? There's no such thing because that's the definition of prejudice -- pre-judging. Taking a fatalistic attitude toward racism? You're ignoring the history of this country, where significant progress has in fact been made.


And really, the notion of finding common ground with people who think that black people suck, when you're asking them to rally around a black candidate... I mean, hello?

You make all these issues sound like they're so black or white. Even Obama isn't just one or the other. Significant progress wasn't made by blindly hoping people like the HOO-SANE lady just go away.

There's a lot of tension between asians in Oakland Chinatown and blacks in the rest of Oakland, especially with the high crime rate. My dad doesn't see little black kids and chinese kids playing basketball or going to eat lunch together. All he sees are his other middle-aged friends getting mugged by blacks, or hears asian storeowners getting robbed by blacks. All he sees is his car getting broken into by a black man. Coupled with his obtuse ignorance of anyting about Obama, he decides he's not voting for him, and he doesn't care if people think he's racist. He's far from the only one. And this is in one of the most liberal metropolitan areas in one of the most liberal states in the nation.

Are you saying not being robbed or vandalized aren't legitimate concerns? Of course not.

More importantly, the question isn't about whether or not it's the racist's burden to get over their own racism. It's a question of: do non-racists have an interest in racists getting over that burden? Yes, we all have something to gain by this, not just because it's a presidential election with the first serious potential black candidate but for the country's well-being overall.

Plus the race card goes away...Yay! Thanks Carlos Mencia/Performance Enhanced.

Nobody said that liberals weren't racists. As you just demonstrated.

Nor was I saying it. (As I thought I said it..)

Well, your example certainly does clarify your position.