Agreed. (Although, to be perfectly honest, for me that's still a complete non-issue.)

Sure. But a question of Clinton vs McCain should be decided on the basis of how each of them would carry out their hypothetical presidencies on the Iraq War, Afghanistan, economy, jobs, gay marriage, etc, and how the voter feels about those, rather than crying or whether certain people who like her or dislike her are educated or not. Which is or is close to what you said, I thought.

The thing is though, it's not just a matter of having the right policies, but also being able to execute on them. Hillary's failed attempt at healthcare in the 90's is part of her track record. As are the reasons why it failed. Her campaign is another metric I use to determine effectiveness as a leader. I have zero confidence that she would make a good executive, since I have not only zero positive evidence but also significant negative evidence to that effect.

Intentionally lying about her past is a non-issue?

Glue, she was using that to try to convince voters she had the experience to carry out certain things in her hypothetical presidency. It speaks exactly to the issues at hand. If she had anything of substance to say about the issues, she wouldn't have thrown out a blatant lie.

It is a world apart from misspeaking the number of states or even the name of leader of a foreign country. She purposely and willfully invented a story to help her gain a position of power.

Don't forget when she was born a coal-miner's daughter, a mill worker's daughter, and a alcoholic's daughter all in the same month, too.

I just think its funny that we can sit here and pick on Lil' Bush and McCain and Hilary (to some extent) all day, but when someone DARES start-up a "let's make fun of Obama" thread, the...uhhh...usual suspects leap to his defense.

For instance:
Solomonomolos: "Heh, Obama sees teh dead people."
You: "He was totally being metaphorical."
Me: "Well, he said that he saw fallen heroes sitting in the audience."
You: "Oh."

Also, I did not call YOU an Obama fanboy. I don't really think of you as one since you've already admitted that you're a Republican, you just feel that Obama is a better option than what the Republicans have put on the table, which is fine. I'm not really a McCain fanboy, I just prefer him to the other two (for now) options. FYI, I use the term "fanboy" only in the most loving manner, as I myself admit to being a fanboy...about a great...many...things.


And she didn't feel no way's tired. She come to faaaaarr...

*is an Obama fanboy*

No really, I got his name tattooed on my chest on Old-English lettering.

Okay, this thread is now useless without pics.

Everyone's free to post anything they want. And that includes sticking up for whomever you want, and picking on whomever you want. But I'm certainly not going to say nothing if I think somebody's posting BS. And everyone else can do the same if they feel the same way.

Yeah, but I totally copped to the fact that he said something stupid once I got the full quote. So Obama said something stupid. You wanna play list the stupid thing a president(ial candidate) said? We could spend all day. You want to play list the stupid thing a regular person has said? We could spend the rest of our lives on the members of this board alone (myself included).

This sort of non-issue discussion is a big part of what's wrong with the country right now. I don't defend Obama when I come after it so much as I attack the person discussing it.

maybe what you're experiencing, stormtrooper is the fact that there is a higher number of Obama supporters on teh board than there are for the other candidates, so someone is always ready to be on the defense. popular Vote'D

*is surrounded by injuns*

I guess my own personal POV is that it's bullshitty and pussy-ish to complain about being ganged up on b/c I'm an argumentative guy by nature and so what if people disagree with you, welcome to life

but that's JMO

uhhh...defensive much?

*suspects Madhammer knew ST53 was referring to HIM when he spoke of Obama fanboys*

McCain to Obama: I said you're a little B I T C H now what'cha you gonna do about it?

Yes. Because that matters less to me than what position I expect them to take on issues when in office. When I say I fully expect politicians to lie, I mean it.

Immaterial to me. Unless she somehow switches to the Republican party or physically transmogrifies into Hitler himself, I trust her ultimate actions as a president would be more beneficial than McCain's ultimate actions as a president. It's biased, but I've admitted that before. In the 20th century, I can literally count maybe 2 Republican presidents who I could have possibly tolerated and I would probably still take the worst Democrat president we ever had over those 2. McCain ranks maybe second or third behind Teddy and Ike (which I guess is pretty high for a Republican in my book, but he lost a lot of it the last couple years).

So it really doesn't matter to me what comes outta her mouth. There's no possible universe where I would take John "50 more years in Iraq, we need a Defense of Bigotry Amendment" McCain over Clinton. I agreed that padding her resume with BS is important because it is for other voters.

Too bad for Gore it didn't work to his advantage...zing.

No, I'm serious. I think that valid arguments are valid arguments, and BS is BS, and if there are thoughtful, informed people involved in the debate, then the truth will win out.

Of course, the "thoughtful and informed" caveat can be a bitch on the interwebs.


Good thing we're not using Iraq as a political football. I mean... that'd be crass and belittling to our mission

I haven't noticed anyone complaining about being ganged up on. I'm certainly not. I'm used to being the only white-conservative-libertarian-wanna-be-Christian-hawkish-capitalist-elitist on the internet.

can be fun for a while, but it gets old. And I have a policy of spending more time making quips and being glib than participating in serious discussion.

Sorry I was off to get McCain an Ensure, what was that?

Obama to McCain: You don't honestly think what is seen by two high ranking American Officials surrounded by security on a planned visit to the region is an accurate representation of the state of Iraq, do you?

Yep.

FoxNews: The Place to Go For 100% Biased Journalism Because Democrats Are Pussies



Like a couple of years ago when McCain went to the Green Zone and said, "It's all perfectly safe here in Iraq," while surrounded by 25 Marines and 4 Blackhawk helicopters and gunships?

*McCain has been in worst places without security detail*

No one's denying that, but it's irrelevant to the state of Iraq right now.

*circles the wagons*


well then let's talk about what matters. what exactly would Obama do to help with the current oil situation. would he open new refineries? increase our output of oil?

last week congress voted down a bill to allow drilling in the areas already set aside for it in anwar. which would have helped lower speculations and thusly oil prices. why did they do that? anyone can give their estimation. it is a general question.

I would not expect CNN/MSNBC to cover getting called out like that for Obama either.

I think if you want to discuss specific issues, dedicated threads would be more helpful (there's already an oil prices thread for example).

Though my take on the oil situation is: welcome to the 21st century

India and China aren't gonna be wanting any less oil, and if you haven't noticed, it's a problem in Europe as well. We're getting screwed because of the weak dollar also. Strap in b/c it's gonna be like this for a while IMO.

uh because the environment is in enough trouble without us fuxxoring with it more. The answer isn't finding more FOSSIL FUELS it's finding more alternative fuel sources. And the moment the f*cking oil barons are no longer sitting in the oval office, that might actually happen.

no, that was a response but the thread passed me while I was posting

It's a political stunt, do you expect it to be taken seriously? By anyone who isn't Fox, I mean.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/energy/


No idea. Perhaps a double whammy of Democratic Environmental Hysteria and Bush Administration Oil Company Connections?

Oh so that explains why oil jumped about 325% in a years time without any major disasters.

Yeah I'll be chalking the media up on this one too since they're the ones with the doom and gloom forcast but wait...do you see it there?...right over there...that dark handsome fellow right over there...he's bringing change...and bet your bottom dollar if we can push him over the top we'll be "changing" our tune too...

I'm actually an environmentalist who's not that opposed to drilling for oil in ANWAR if there's a justifiable reason for it, and preferably if it's limited. But will it make an appreciable dent in our oil woes firstly? It would need to offset the rest of our import/export deficit and I don't see us exporting oil or any other demanded goods anytime soon to help reverse inflation.

And since I'm not that intimately familiar with oil drilling, why is ANWAR necessarily the best place for us to drill for oil as opposed to anywhere else in the United States? If there's geological, economic, or environmental reasons, those should probably be made clear so that we can at least have those facts more publicly disseminated before we completely ignore them when making the decision.

It takes 8 to 10 years to make a new oil site viable FYI, so new sites do nothing for our current needs.

ANWAR is ideal because it's in the middle of the freaking arctic, away from living things other than ice lichens and stuff. Plus there's about 4 billion (conservatively speaking) barrels of oil to be had.

*realizes that ANWR is NOT actually in the middle of the freaking arctic.*

I'm getting the sense that you're not interested in discussion as much as you are in being right

so I'll leave you to it

The only change I'm interested in is getting out of the war. It's the foundation to fixing the rest of our problems, IMO. The rest is going to take a lot of time, and there's no point addressing any of it until that's settled.

So far, the dark handsome fellow has that going for him.

speculation makes a differnce though. in the price of oil.

Baywatch song, Baywatch song

Boom, baby.







ETA: And a follow up e-mail found At the top of this page.

From: Mark Kitchell
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 10:47 AM
To: Steve Gilbert
Subject: Re: Any Record Of Charles W Payne?

I don’t claim to represent anyone. You are the one who came to my son and I asking for information.

Please spend ample time chasing down the lies fed to you by chickenhawks Bush & Co. Like 90% of this administration, they don’t have the foggiest idea what we went through or what we saw at Ohrdruf.

"good day"

Hehehehe.

See todays news about that.