Yes, actually they are.

But not because they don't admit girls (well, maybe partially for that), but mostly because they don't allow homosexual boys (or atheist ones) to join.

Now, unlike the American government, the Boy Scouts is a private (surprise, surprise) church run organization and they don't have to allow in anyone they don't want to. I get that. Still, though, they are bigots.

The irony.

The mind-shattering irony.

you can't be gay when you join. but afterward...

We don't want any gay boys b/c buggery in the Boy Scouts is RIGHT OUT unless you're a scoutmaster

Again, an ironic comparison to church comes up.

*alter boy flashback*

The Catholic church, you mean...

not to play "we're better than you," I just think that the whole priesthood / celibacy thing is a bad, bad, bad idea. Most sexual abusers were abused themselves as children, so you can imagine the logical thought progression -- "I have these sexual issues, so if I become a priest I won't ever have to think about sex ever again." And you know how that goes.

We shall see when the people vote. If it doesn't get amended then so be it, it is a debate that won't end anytime soon.


and Hobbs like I said everyone in the world is a bigot then.

oh and for you others, I really kept the church at a distance in this topic never bringing it up.

It's a pity, because without that you just come off as prejudiced for no reason.

The problem though is that many have asked you to answer a simple question and you cant/wont:

WHY do you feel this is acceptable?
the thing is - I am willing to bet you can't not without mentioning the bible at least

So...... you gonna respond about why exactly you don't like gay marriage? I put my cards on the table.

Think it's only a matter of time before all such popular ballot initiatives are recognized as unconstitutional. Oh wait, it already was in California.

Issues of minority rights should not be determined by a 50.1% majority (and that's a virtue of Republicanism). Sure, you can amend the Constitution to restrict marriage. Just admit you wanna nix the entire principle behind the Fourteenth Amendment. I'm sure all black people and other minorities wouldn't mind.

"this is just like bible camp, except I'm not crying and trying to pretend I'm somewhere else"[/Chris Griffin]

in my hometowns baptist church the youth director went to prison when it came out that for 10 years he had been molesting the kids. they find a way no matter the religion.

*is not catholic or baptist*

No, he already said:

Man/woman union = marriage
same sex union = civil union

See?

On a side note, I love how my sister in law (an evangelical Christian) took my 7 year old daughter to the Christian Book Store, and my little one was looking at the bumper stickers. She saw all kinds of great ones like, "W.W.J.D?" and "God Loves Everyone" and "Preach Diversity" right next to a larger rack that was more full of ones with sayings like "God Hates Fags" and "AIDs IS God's Punishment" and "Gays Go To Hell". My daughter tried asking her aunt about the inconsistency (see? even a 7 YEAR OLD gets it) and all she got was a lecture (my sister in law has been trying to indoctrinate my kids for years, to no avail).

My 38 year old sister in law could not even convince a 7 year old that her point of view is right. My daughter kept asking her, "But if God made and loves everyone, then why would he hate boys who love boys or girls who love girls?"

Try asking most adult Christians that question and watch their heads asplode.

And then there was the time last Thanksgiving when my 11 year old daughter proclaimed at dinner (it was at my sister in law's house) that she loves gay people (she volunteers at a gay & lesbian youth center down the street from our house). My in laws went so stiff, I'm surprised they didn't kidnap her to the compound for some rigorous brain washing right then and there!

*has stopped caring what people think* but that's JMO, I'm still willing to argue about stuff on the innernets

How about this:

It's wrong to be gay, black, white, mexican, native american, asian, african, austrailian, aborigine, religious, non-religious, short, tall, fat, skinny, far-sighted, near-sighted, meat-eating, vegetarian, healthy, unhealthy, rich, poor, old, young, buff, skronny, able-bodied, handicapped, good at sports, or bad at sports. All those things are wrong.

There. Now we're all on even playing ground. Now let the gay folks get MARRIED. They have every right to get a pile of sh!t from Target's Club Wedd and lose half their sh!t in a divorce just like the rest of us.

I would be willing to accept this if:
1) "seperate but equal" actually worked.
2) If Civil Unions actually had all of the benefits of marriage - which they don't.

There shouldn't be a need for you to "accept" anything IMO. I know you agree, but I'm just like MEH about all of these baby steps toward equality.

'Twas just a little sarcasm placed to showcase how the whole thing comes down to an argument of semantics.

I say potato, you say potahto

people who say potahto are ghey and shouldn't be allowed to speak in public.[/sarcasm]

Does anybody really say potahto?

>wasnt directed at CHL specifically<
>just trying to address the POV of RDD as straight forward and fairly as possible<

I just got you 2 morons to say it "potahto"...

EDIT: And Hunter...give up. RDD is an island unto himself.

HA! The joke's on you! I only typed that -- I actually said "butt lovin' is the best lovin'!"

You have that on your voicemail, too. Why is that?

I don't hide my beliefs.

Farg baby steps. Farg tolerance even. They don't like it? Well boohoohoo, this is the real world around them. Why are they not obligated to accept it while Hunter is obligated to put up with that shot? Let them move out if they don't like countries with equal rights. Equality means more than just "Oppression is evil except when I'm the one doing it."

thanks Glue.

Also thanks to everyone in the thread making valid points (including RDD - i just wish you'd actually make some valid points)

Yeah see post 214 again.



as simple as it gets...
The people want it that way, it was written that way (man & woman).
What is the problem in understanding that?

*life is not fair comes to mind*

Now as much as I would loovvveee to stick around and internet argue, I have this small side problem called work. I'm not going to try to convince anyone my way/beliefs/views is/are right over yours. As bigoted as yours are, you have yours and I have mine.

Yes, if I lived in California again I'd be voting against you but I'm not so I do my part here in WA.

BTW CHL what city do you live in?



*Would have said, while God is loving he also gets angry*
*God gave free will so you could sink your own ship*

*Homosexuality isn't a "free will" issue*


Threads are colliding!

You know, despite everyone wanting to tease out RDD's rationale for being against gay marriage, I think it would be wise not to lose sight of the fact that the Bible is irrelevant when it comes to matters of constitutional law. The Constitution is the source text for this country (until we become a theocracy), and if it guarantees equal treatment under the law, then so be it.

Wow, I thought the west side of Washington was all liberal and stuffs. I'm in Spokane, and we have the bumpkin vote over here.

"I just don't like him because of his being that other race, and we've just had so many conflicts with those folks."

[cartman]thats what I said[/cartman]

I've brought that up a couple times! [/kopibot]

I don't pay attention to people's posts! [/pete]

Well, unfortunately, I feel that is more of a theory than a fact these days. The Bush administration has gone a long way towards "Evangelical Christianity: The OFFICIAL Religion of teh U.S.A.". I recently read a Newsweek article about how there is a Christian book going around the soldiers in Iraq (basically a quick read Bible with passages and deeper explanations, think of it as the "bible quote of the day" book), and in some cases, forced upon soldiers of different faiths.

While I support and heavily condone the separation of church and state, I don't feel that our country is being run that way. Just look at Bush's whole "God wants us to go to war" speech at the beginning of this whole mess.

so does he, lol

Yet another bit of proof that I am actually, The Lord Jesus Christ, Savior & Humper Of Moms

Oedipal Christ??

1. Jesus = God

2. God = The Holy Spirit

3. The Holy Spirit got Mary pregnant

:converts:

*is reminded of GOB Bluth's understanding of what a "Holy Trinity" is*

Incest is teh best! Put the Virgin Mother to the test!

That's totally calling for a "STFU! Get out of mah temple!" caption.

IM IN UR TEMPLE

KICKIN OUT UR DOODS

"TURNIN' DA TABLEZ!" with a photoshopped set of headphones on Jesus.

Thought I've might have seen you at CybCon.

The definition of marriage does indeed say it's between a man and a women.
Guss what though? That's not a viable point of discussion for the anti-gay marriage crowd. Why? Definitions change all the time.

It used to be that to vote meant that one was a white, land-owning male over 21 who was a US citizen.
So theoretically when they were talking about abolishing the property requirements in the 1830's, someone could have said "this is wrong, the definition of 'voter' includes owning land" and they would be technically right. Society evolved to the point, however, that this particular definition was outdated and needed to be revised. So the part about owning property was dropped. Then they dropped the "white" part. Later still they dropped the "male" part, and finally they changed 21 to 18.
So now the definition of "voter" in the US is any US citizen over 18 (well potential voter anyway, but you get the point). It started out as something much more exclusive in definition, but it changed and evolved as society changed and evolved.

So why can't the same thing happen with the definition of marriage? Yes, technically the current definition is, according to Webster's,

"The state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law."

The question is though, "so what?" Why is that definition set in stone? That's never been the case before regarding other legal definitions, even the definition of what it means to be a person has changed (up until 1919 women weren't consider "people" in Canada).
I'm sure if we took an honest look at history the definition of marriage itself has changed prior to arriving at its current state.

The fact is that society has evolved to the point where it's necessary for the definition of marriage to change. You can still disapprove of homosexuality, but that's really not the point. The point is that the legal definition of marriage must be altered to allow for same-sex marriages if a government is going to guarantee true equality under the law.

And hey, legalize polygamy while you're at it. I mean why not?

lol, seperation of church and state has NEVER worked right because politicians have their heads too far up their asses to check their religion at the door. we preach equality and democracy, yet we ourselves do not practice it. it's not going to be that much longer until the united states turns into a totalitarian state.

yanno i started out saying that it's a state issue, but i take that back because i don't want to support some elitist group suppressing the rights of somebody else.

alot of people see marriage as a religious union, but the problem is that it's not anymore. as agent zero said, definitions are constatntly changed and updated to keep with the times. hell, a faggot used to be a bundle of farging sticks for cripe's sake! now is a slang term for a homosexual male. the point being that while marriage used to be a religious union, but it is no longer. you've got farging atheists getting married for farg's sake. so what the farg? also, civil union != marriage. it's not even close. do you think that everybody that isn't a xian would be happy with a civil union? farg no! i'm not in a civil union with my wife, i'm farging married to her. the social implications of that are farging crazy, and quite frankly i'm sick to farging death of hearing people batch about it. it's not your ass they're farging so why do you give a flying goddamned farg what they do? you don't agree with what they're doing? fine, nobody's gota gun to your head making you go to the farging ceremony! worried that gay marriage might open the way to polygamy? farg you, once again it doesn't effect you one goddamned bit so why do you care? you've got less of an argument against polygamy than you do homosexual marriage because that is an accepted practice the that so-called holy book of yours, and really thats what it all comes down to isn't it? thats the only reason anybody has a problem with homosexuality, because they feel like it gives god a farging anurism. even these people that aren't religious that still have a problem with it, it's due to social taboo which stems from guess farging what, xianity.

i love it how xians can pick on everybody, but the moment somebody says "farg you, i don't want my kid being forced to pray every morning at school" they get all butthurt and BBBBBBAAAAAWWWWWW about it. grow the farg up, not everybody subscribes to your bigoted, hateful religion so don't expect everybody to follow you're archaic rules and dogmatic stigma. that shot was written THOUSANDS of years ago and is no longer farging relevant. guess what, jesus farging loved everybody regaurdless of what they did or believed. he got pissed off one time when people where using the church to take advantage of people. he hung out with whores all farging day long and didn't do a goddamned thing to them. he saved them from being persecuted by the religious state he was in. if you xians would actually read you're farging doctrine, and not that stupid old testament shot (because once again, if you actually read your religious texts you'd realize that christ's death established a new promise with god and did away with the old one) you might actually learn something and you might actually get along with other people because you wouldn't be trying to force everybody to subscribe to your religion the way jesus did it.

protip: more people would join your religion if you'd quit being an ice hole to everybody.

EDIT

you might be asking yourself why i care so much, it's because not only does all this shot personally effect me (my wife's bi and is dating a lesbian and would like to marry her some day), but i used to be on the other side of the coin as well. i used to be so against homosexuality and the like and i never knew why, i only knew that mom and dad said it was wrong because god said it was an abomination. i've gotten so much farging shot from that world because of how i believe, how i live, and the things i do, and i know that if i'm so fed up with it, homosexual people are too.

wow, I feel somehow cleansed and dirty all at the same time.