Actually I might find some lolcats refreshing myself.







and very interesting articles

The Lolcat Bible is full of awesome.

P.S. my not-from-God conscience is smiting me, so I just wanted to say: I don't mean to derail the thread and it's probably not even necessary for me to spend any time giving my opinion on someone else.... so, sorry, P-C.

I read it as "OMG, that's so obvious, funny the Jews can't figure it out."


When you talk about the followers of the Abrahamic G-d, terminology is important. If you were talking about Christians or Muslims you wouldn't use "followers of Yahweh."
You would use followers of Christ or followers of Allah. Likewise, you wouldn't use "followers of Allah" to describe Christians or Jews, even if the discription were technically correct. Why? Allah is a name for G-d unique to Islam.

Just like "Yahweh" is the name of G-d unique to Judaism. It's a Hebrew name. You're an Antsiest, so I understand you have the "guy on the outside looking in" perspective, and from where you stand I can understand the "hey, you guys worship the same G-d, who cares what you call Him."
From a religious perspective, however, the different names mean different things, they highlights the differences between the three faiths. A Muslim would never call G-d "Yahweh" and a Jew would never call Him "Allah."

So when I see "followers of Yahweh" I make the "=Jews" connection.

I wasn't twisting Hunter's words. Doing so would mean I read them as sarcasm or an all-inclusive attack on all Abrahamic faiths and said to myself "hmmm, how can I use this against Hunter?"
Why would I do that? Prior to this thread I never had a problem with him.

Instead I read his posts and I read them as attacking the Jewish faith. And I'm still not convinced they aren't.


Well that's a hard perspective to argue against isn't it
"The Bible tells us that X happened. We think we may have found evidence of it at location Y."
"I refuse to accept it!"
"But the similarities between the archaeological finds and the Biblical narriatives are...."
"Nope, I refuse to accept it."

I'm I saying that the Hyksos and the Hebrews correspond? Nope. They may, but we're still not sure. Yet at the same time we have no real evidence that any of the ancient cities we've found in Greece are actually the legendary cities we claim they are. It's all guess work and speculation.

Furthermore you have to consider the nature of the Exodus. We have one group of people leaving Egypt and starting a civilization in Israel. We know ancient Egypt existed. We know ancient Israel existed. It's the Israelis' journey from Egypt to Israel we don't have definitive proof of. Yet they did march through the desert, and they were a non-nomadic people forced into a nomadic lifestyle. So given that the lack of evidence between point A and point B isn't all that surprising.
We also know that the Egyptians kept slaves, FWIW.

To clarify my position - I think all three of the Abraham's religions are dangerous. A quick look through history shows that the "God-of-Abraham" has inspired more horror, more atrocities, than any other single factor.

And YES, whether or not you realize it - the Jews, Christians, and the Muslims all pray to the same god.
And it's only the members of these religions that don't seem to realize it. But it's painfully obvious to everyone else.

BTW - of the three, the Jews are the least offensive, but their hands are far from clean.

Now all that being said - I do understand that there is a difference between Ethnicity and Religion (even though in the case of the Jews, they intentionally blur that line).

I also don't hold current Generations responsible for crimes committed thousands of years ago (that is a Biblical concept though).

FYI I think "G-d" is ghey because it's not like "God" is his actual name or anything. It's not even a Hebrew word.

Now you're twisting what I say.

The Hyksos may have been slaves in Egypt, and they may have left in an event similar to what happens in Exodus - I'll even grant you that the Hyksos events directly inspired the writer of Exodus - but there is no evidence they were or later became the Hebrew people, nor is there any evidence for a man amongst them who may have been Moses - which is, let's face it, key to supporting them as evidence of the Exodus myth.

In fact, your own links say that the evidence we do have suggests that even if the Hyksos did in fact become the Hebrew people, they wandered in the desert for about 250 years, not 40, meaning it would have been impossible for any central man such as Moses to have been present for the Exodus, and the wandering, and the tablets, and the settling and all that.

I know you'll say "the storyteller took some liberties with the time line." Well, great, but if he did, then the fact is that Moses was probably a fictional character, lending credence to the idea that the ten commandments are just some rules some dude made up, and not the word of God handed down from on high.

It's a huge assumption to suggest what we know of the Hyksos is in anyway evidence of the important parts of Exodus being based in reality. It's a hypothesis only, and even if it were proven true, then there are still major flaws between the story and the historical record of the Hyksos that would keep the Exodus story from being seen as, in anyway, accurate to history.

It is a work of fiction.

Many names in the OT are actually family names... so people that lived for 120 or 250 years - like Moses (in the context of the current discussion) may have actually been the "House of Moses" so it might be three literal generations...

Interesting side not to the Exodus talk - does anyone know about "Hiram Abif"?

I don't think that that's the right answer though, the whole trying to explain it thing... I think the easier and more likely answer is that Moses' age was simply exaggerated in the story to fit a number that sounded good to the Hebrews.

Cuz you know

120 = 40 + 40 + 40

as in 40 days and 40 nights

40 days atop Mt. Sinai

even Jesus = 40 days in the wilderness

It's a number that symbolizes "the right amount of time".

So Moses spends 40 years in Egypt, 40 years in exile, and 40 years leading the Israelites. Numerology in the Old Testament is a big thing.

I still don't see how one can observe weather or not the jews are the choosen people. Do they have to see the Poke Ball we popped out of?

?

time to this batch up, LMH just won the thread.

Pikajew?

Beware though - you have just INTERNET disgraced all of Agent Zero's ancestors.
Any more of this insolence and he will be forced to commit Seppeku with a Dradle

Oh Dreidel, Dreidel, Dreidel, I made it out of clay




you forgot to have Ashweh say "I choose you!"

I Jews you?

I could go all day with this

"The Philistines have chosen BAAL"

"BAAL has used CHILD SACRIFICE"

and they need to put that online again

As a fellow jew I'd like to ask Agent Zero to please lighten up... Francis

See, you can do that. If I said that I'd come off like Torquemada or something.

*mel brooks voice* Torquemada? boy does this guy have the wrong name, you can't Talk him outta anything.


hmmm... I guess it works better on screen.

Auto-da-fe? What's an auto-da-fe? / It's what you auto-nt to do but you do anyway

I haven't seen that in while either...

I've been wanting to say that this whole thread, but I just knew it would launch a big rant about how I don't understand what it's like to be Jewish...

I think with Agent Zero it's more of him using the stigma of being jewish to cover up his own insecurities about himself.

Well I wouldn't like to go that far... I mean, there's absolutely nothing wrong at all with being proud of your culture and your heritage, and I understand that in the case of the Jewish people, the line between culture and religion is thin (if it exists at all), but... I dunno. I think that there are many different ways to celebrate your culture's traditions and history. Not that I'm recommending any one particular approach for our friend AZ.

I was gonna go with, "the security blanket of a loving God and His promise of Heaven is a tough one to put down, and even the smartest people will rationalize all kinds of things that, when viewed objectively, make absolutely no sense in order to hold onto it" but if that's where you wanna go...

(damn, I love this smiley)

I've been here for what? A year? Around that, because I remember finding this site looking for pics of the movie designs. Even then, it's not like I've been continuously active for a year. I'm not part of any of this site's cliques, and of all the members of this forum I would consider one a real friend, and he only joined after I liked him here so he could see the leaked Prime pics from Bay's movie. He posted a couple times, and hasn't been back since. So really, I don't know any of you, and thus you don't know me.
All you have are my posts to go on, and you assume you can piece together what goes on in my head? You think you can tell me why I believe what I believe.
Seeing as this is a TF forum, I feel perfectly fine using a quote from our friend Galvy.....
"This is bad comedy."

See, I could do the same thing to each of you, from what little I know of you from your posts. Of course I would probably be way off, but it would make a wicked cool awesome internet moment. So I'm not going to do that. Instead I'll address the group of self-righteous strangers I've never even spoken to who apparently know me better then I know myself.

Haggisjin,- you've been nothing but a dick to me for no real reason. You, far worse then anyone, seem to think of me as an ignorant boob because I dare to disagree with you on some issues. When if you actually got to know me you would know that you and I probably have more in common then either of us realize.
So please to me a favour and get the hell out of my face unless your willing to have a discussion with me rather then continuing to make what amount to snarky comments about me from afar.

Hunter- you're a laugh riot. That Pokeball joke that Pete made, as well as the Pikachu with the Star of David were actually hilarious. See, Pokemon's band in Saudi Arabia because the Saudis claim it promotes Zionism. Had it not been for you and the rest of these wanna-be Dr. Phils I would have made an off-the-cuff comment poking fun at that hilarious little tid-bit of info. But no, you decided to be an ass about the whole thing.
So I'll tell you the same thing I told Haggisjin, get out of my face unless you actually want to learn something about the person you the time out of your day to mock.

NLTAG- My own insecurities? Again, do you know me? No? Then stop pretending like you do just for the benefits of looking cool by piling on the dog pile. I have nothing major to be insecure about. I'm a great student, was the top of my class in high school, was student body president, and just aced my end of year exams to cap off my second year of university at the University of Western Ontario. I'm a damn good hockey goalie to boot. So again, I'll repeat myself. Get out of my face or actually learn something about me if you want to continue to play therapist.

Hobbes- You want to know why I believe in G-d? Because I do. That's how I was raised and I have yet to see anything in the world that convinces me otherwise. Furthermore it's been the Jewish people's belief in G-d that has allowed us to persevere through close to 5,000 years of oppression. To me, that says something. You see the world differently, you decided to go with Atheism. I respect that.
I know people, both Jewish and Christian, who accuse Atheists of being morally weak. In effect this is the main theist criticism of Atheists. Have I ever accused you of this? No. Because I don't believe it. From what little I know of you, you simply looked at the world and said "huh, there's no G-d." I respect that as much as I respect someone who comes to a different conclusion. Faith, or lack thereof, is personal, I refuse to lower myself to reducing you to a simple 2-D character based on your personal beliefs. I would ask for the same in return.

LM- You're the closest to actually getting this whole mess. I'm proud of who I am. My mom's side is made up of hardcore British Canadian loyalists, and I'm proud of that. My dad's side is Jewish, and able to trace its roots back to ancient Israel. I'm just as proud of that. Religion and ethnicity are intertwined on the Jewish side, so those feelings extend to my religious beliefs.
I'm sorry if you think I've been out of line regarding discussions of G-d, the State of Israel, or the Holocaust, but these are topics witch are very close to me. I lost family in Auschwitz so of course the Holocaust is going to be a sensitive issue with me. If you think I've been out of line, I apologize, but I've only stood up for beliefs or sides I've felt close to.

Now if you all don't mind, I'm going to get back to discussing giant alien robots that turn into things. If you want to join me, you're welcome. Just don't act like you know me and try to analyze who I am when I disagree with you about Universe Blaster.

Dude, Universe Blaster sucks.

HEATHEN!

hey now, let's leave the Heathens out of this we aint hurt nobody...in a few hundred years anyway.

Those who do not adhere to the glorious word of Universe Blaster will be damned to spend eternity collecting Go-Bots.

Actually, my comment was based on me telling you to lighten up in a topic in the past, and you then going on a rant calling me anti-semitic and saying that I didn't understand what it was like to be Jewish.

And please let me know when I treat you like an ignorant boob, more than when I use sarcasm in reply to any other person's posts on these boards

Ooh.. Go-Bots!

Well pretty much any time you respond to anything I say it's as "boy you sure are stupid...durrr."
Perhaps when I commented that you were pigeon-holing the American population when you said something along the lines of "well lets see if Obama treating the American population like reasonable adults works," thereby preemptively accusing anyone who still felt unconvinced after his Reverend shot his mouth off an idiot, in your book anyway.
When I pointed that you responded along the lines of "well this is the idiocy I'm talking about."

And I still fail to see how I should have lightened up in a topic about the Holocaust. You're like one of the few people in the world who a Jew would have to apologize to about feeling the way we do about the Holocaust.

So in short, either get over yourself and actually get to know me beyond you self-righteous ass-hatery or buzz off. 'Cause I'm not going to bother discussion something with someone who's already labelled me an ignorant peasant.

I had written out a fairly long reply to this..... but really this is just fucking retarded. Stop taking every comment that I write as a direct and personal insult to YOU. You honestly aren't that important to me, I have far more issues on my mind than attacking you directly, and I don't log on to this site to have INTERNET FIGHTS. If you have any further problems with me send me a PM whenever you feel I am assaulting you or your heritage. That's why there is the PM function, so the boards don't get clogged with this crap.

I'd appreciate if nobody else replied to this part of the conversation (the part about me, feel free to adress whatever has been said about you, or the actual topic) as well.

However, Agent Zero, I do suggest that you notice ALL OF US continually insult each other in jest on this site. If somebody posts a sarcastic reply to something you've said, it's not a "duuurrr you're dumb" comment, it's just a poke between a generally friendly community.

I shouldn't have to psychoanalyze you to understand your arguments.

1) Follow your own advice. If you have something fairly long to say, my PM box is open
2) You're a piece of work. Of course I realize I'm not that important you. It may surprise you to know you're not that important to me. In the few times you and I have dealt directly, however, you've acted like nothing but a jackass. My example recalling the Obama campaign recalling one instance (out of what? three, four?).
So again, buzz off or actually get to know me beyond your sarcasm. I'm good either way. Your choice.


Yes, because calling me retarded, calling my responses idiotic, and this gem....


Just reek of "in jest" humour.

If you want to bury the hatchet, I'm cool with that. I would just rather you and others stop pretending like you know me. 'Cause ya don't.

And the theist, unable to lean on his crutch due to damage sustained by reason, begins to swing it at those who would help them walk without it.

it has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with Agent Zero being a douche.

As Agent Zero has, quite rightly, pointed out, I do not know him. I am in no position to judge his relative "douchatude".

I know only what I can see here.

I'll rephrase: It has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with AZ being a douche whenever the topic involves jews or the jewish faith in any form.

... doesn't that inherently have something to do with religion then?

Everyone is selectively a douche about something. For AZ, it's Judaism. For me, it's everything under the sun.

>.>

Ironically I'm a douche about douching.

*douches thread*


















NOW THATS REFRESHING!!!

I hereby nominate this as the best idea in the thread so far.

It's not like there's any real discussing going on anymore anyway.

Indeed.

Agent Zero: we've had this discussion before. You are way too sensitive, almost comically so. Except that you keep clogging up threads with your angst (which I believe I have pointed out before, and which I believe you denied at the time). And that isn't really so funny after a while. I've told you already that you need to scale it back, and learn how to have a discussion with other people without taking offense at everything anyone says. It's getting old.