so i was getting interested in that stupid thread and couldn't reply.

anyway, i can only think of a very few reasons right off the top of my head, including being too big for most cars, going offroading, or needing the extra room. me and the wife are currently contemplating children, which means i want to go looking for a job, pain and health be damned, and we both agreed that after i get one, we're gonna look for a good used blazer or tahoe, and probably will be the blazer, i think tahoe's only come in v8 (though i'd LOVE that extra cargo room).

it's probably the cheaper alternative as opposed to getting a bigger sedan as most bigger sedans come with bigger engines, that and we're always Powerglideing dragging on everything and i'm sick of it. i'll have to cut down on my driving though...

ANYWAYS

oh, this also goes out to you truck owners as well. trucks make even less sense as there's alot less room. so yea... why do you drive, or defend driving, a big ass vehicle? also, i don't need any of that "because i want to", or "stfu it's my money" crap either. i'm not looking for an argument or flame thread, but a serious discussion... well, you know what i mean

the thing is that there are other alternatives to SUVs and trucks, and half of the time the people that drive them have no reasons to do so. the same can be said for households constantly having two or more vehicles that are driven constantly, however there are more acceptable reasons for the later. so, come on, out with it. why do you waste gas?

EDIT

oh, and if you've got a 4wd slammed with 26's go kill yourself.

My reasons for owning an SUV are: (2007 Avalanche)

1: Lots of room for three baby/booster seats. (Used to have a Vibe but got sick of squashing the kids.)
2: Four wheel drive. Here in the North, once the snow hits, you're going nowhere without it. (Unless you wanna burn up half a tank of gas and a transmission rocking a van or car back an fourth till you get "unstuck". Only to do it again the next time you stop.
3: An open box. A must in my line of work. It's also useful on the home front. Being that the Avalanche is equiped with a factory box cover, it allows for a lot of luggage room when going on trips.
4: Considerably stronger when compared to cars/vans. Around here where everybody drives like crap and/or are drunk behind the wheel, it increases the chances of my family surviving an accident. (My career of choice is Autobody repair, I've seen enough collisions to know that SUVs tend to pulverize anything that gets under their wheels.) (Unibody on frame>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Unibody)
5: My Avalanche pulls down an average of 25 miles per gallon which is attained by the new active fuel management system. This nifty lil upgrade allows it to run on 4 cylinders when not under load. (A d00d can actually get 32 on the highway when a good wind is at your back) The Vibe I used to own averaged 36 miles per gallon. Considering the difference in ride quality, room, safety, and power, I'll be keeping this thing for a long time.

Here are my top three reasons:

1) Having the right to own one.
2) Having the ability to pay for one.
3) Having the desire to own one.

If you meet these three criteria, knock yourself out.

When we had to go looking for a new vehicle we quickly decided a few things :

1) We wanted something as new as we could afford.
2) Larger vehicle usually means larger price tag (with a few exceptions, mostly in the area of sporty cars)
3) Since we drive for an hour to get to work and another hour back and gas prices are never going down again we wanted good fuel economy


So we pretty much decided against an SUV. Cost was too high and fuel efficiency too low.


We ended up with a Toyota Matrix instead. Which is actually bigger than I wanted, but she likes it so .... we got it.

Typically I make fun of people who drive trucks in urban areas. But this winter, all the warm ups and freezes have totally pwned the roads... I wish I had a truck.

I guess if you're not a truck owner, you don't understand trucks or something...which I didn't think made sense

All sorts of people have sh*t to move, we live in the city and my fiancee has a truck. During hockey season, we move a lot of cheering and marching drum equipment to and from the local arena. I work at a local music store off and on, and we have to move instruments and repairs out to and from schools a lot, and the folded-down space in my Rodeo doesn't always cut it. You don't have to have lumber or pigs or grain to move to need to have a truck. Not criticism, I just never thought "urban area = no trucks" would be something that makes sense.

The thing about trucks is they sort of unwillingly lend one to charity- living near a college campus, we're always helping students move things to and from different places.

My family had one. I think there can be respectably legitimate reasons for owning/driving one (of the "what makes productive sense" type), like business reasons or actually going offroad, hauling stuff around, whatever.

My family had one though, and, if there are stupid reasons for owning them, our case was for all the stupid reasons. It was a Ford Bronco II, of a year that was one of the most notoriously top-heavy ones. I ended up rolling it on the freeway which totaled it. Felt bad about the loss of the car, but I don't miss the thing at all.

The libertarian in me says yeah, people have every right to own one. But from a practical standpoint, for those who make environmentalism a personal high priority, I think it's pretty self-contradicting behavior, in spite of all modern hybrid technology. SUVs are just such gas guzzlers you pretty much need hybrid tech just to make as clean as regular gas engine cars. That's like those people who bicyle yet smoke (and at the same time). I figure if you have one but at least don't kid yourself or others about it, I'm not bothered at all. Those who do, well it's up to you, but yeah I kinda roll my eyes.

I drove a truck for a year and hated it. I prefer small, fast cars.

But I sure appreciate my friend's trucks when I move stuff.

or you don't want one

Well duh

But I don't think that's what was implied though. What I was referring to was understanding/not understanding the purpose of a vehicle.

Since cars are tools and stuff

BK,

I recommend getting a Trailblazer. They don't make the S-10 Blazers anymore, yeah they're good with their 4.3l V6 but small. Tahoes are nice but V8 and gas are not friends but they are bigger/roomier. Trailblazer falls right in between.

However you might want to consider the Acadia/Traverse, they have awd as an option and from what I hear you can fit a sheet of plywood in it. My wife and I are undecided between the Buick version (plushy but not Caddy plushy) or the Hybrid Tahoe.

**edit**

I forgot to mention I own a 4x4 1500 extended cab Silverado with a 4.8l, so not all V8 are that bad and when it snowed this past winter I cruised right along the cars on the hill spinning out...

Which is the problem I have with SUVs. One of them, anyway. Getting classified as "light trucks" = lax safety and emissions standards.

P.S. dependence on foreign oil =

Indeed

my mazda mx-3 went everywhere a 4x4 went in the snow... at least snowed pavement... sat to low to go offroad...

how big's the cargo area in those things? i'm gonna need a good 7 or 8 cu ft >_>

i had a big huge rant here, but i don't feel like it anymore. i just see so many instances of people driving them that don't need them. esp when i spend any amount of time hanging around the car audio/customization community. so i just thought i'd ask why people drive big vehicles because it's something i've always been curious about.

DN

i know why people that have to move alot of Blot drive trucks. my brother has a fullsize silverado. he drives it daily when he can, but he's always borrowing mom n dad's, or my sister's car to go to and from work or when he goes grocery shopping or shopping for normal items because it costs > $100 to fill it up. he's always been a truck man, but then he's also the mover of the family lol.

The automakers keep stoking the SUV fire because they are a bigger money maker for them. Therefore, as long as people keep buying them they're going to kick them out. No money to be made on a small car.

Now, with that being said, it might be slightly off topic but some interesting global aspects:

1) Europe and Japanese vehicles have about a 60/40 ratio between manual and automatic transmissions. US vehicles, however, have less than 8% equipped with manuals

2) While gas in European countries is constantly cited in the "OMG, you US people have it so good!" arguement, if you break out all the taxes, we all pay about the same for the crude. While the US pays about 45-55% in taxes, Europeans has anywhere between 70-80% of their gas taxed.

3) Look at pre 1972 America. Everyone drove enormous cars or muscle cars with high performance engines and didn't think twice until the OPEC embargo. Suddenly, no gas+rapid inflation=SMALL CARS!

If you want to do something about the gas prices, do one thing: Change how you consume gas. If that means driving a smaller car, well... so be it. However, sadly enough, Americans won't change their habits until absolutely forced.

I'm lost on the cause of the rant? Why do I drive a full size truck? Because I want to and I'm tired of playing elbow tag in smaller cars. On top of that now having two boys, 1 is in sports the other is in a stroller. That sh!t has to go somewhere.

I guess I should also throw out there as another possible vechile to buy is the Crew Cab Silverados. You get the bennies of SUV while having a truck with leg room for all. You could do that with the Avalanche too but they are style orientated now (at least all the new ones that I've seen).

My understanding on the Active Fuel Management is that its only availbe in the larger V8's.

I think "not dying" is another good reason. I know several people who have has accidents and said they will only drive big trucks/SUVs because of it. Of course...if everyone drove a smaller vehicle that wouldn't be a problem, but you can't and shouldn't force people to do that.

My wife and I both drive fuel efficient mid-size cars. I have no interest in anything larger than that, especially trying to park in LA, but I can't believe people are questioning the owning of whatever someone else can afford to own. What makes anyone so special that someone else has to justify their "need" to you in order to drive whatever they want without getting judged?

It's not like we're talking about favorite colors.

Well...if you're sifting for an answer, I suppose we could draw comparisons to secondhand smoke or something creative like that.

The topic creator specifically requested something other than the "because I can" argument, but since you brought it up, I have the legal right to walk into a crowded elevator and pass gas, but I would be doing everyone else a disservice by doing so. SUV abusers do pretty much the same thing.

TRUCK FARTS




PFFT PFFT PFFT

I know what the topic starter requested, but the attitude is, "oh, I get that some people need to use big trucks, but I assume everyone that owns one doesn't need it until they prove otherwise to me."

I just don't understand the "guilty-until-proven-innocent" mentality.

Come back to Texas sometime, I'll show you.

Because no one in Texas participates in boating, camping, ranching, farming, construction, sporting, or any other activity that might require a big truck once in a while.

Whatever criticism I have is directed more towards people I see driving around SUVs and carrying.. nothing. My mom was such a person. The reason our family bought the SUV was literally because she felt more empowered. And when gas got expensive, they didn't blame their own budgeting and financial decision-making (stuff under their own control), but the gas prices (stuff not in their control).

This is just personal impression but I see many more trucks, SUVs, and minivans carrying very little than ones being used for such express purposes. I suspect the majority of such owners spend the most of their time hauling around nothing, not transporting bulky loads or lots of passengers. But only the actual drivers could know their own usage.

Sorry, my only point is that (personally) I get ill when people fill up their SUV when a car or a minivan would work perfect for them while whining about high gas prices. We, as consumers, caused the problem by demanding big, roomy, gas swilling vehicles to drive instead of making sacrifices. We sowed, and therefore are reaping, our own seeds.And by the way, my mom is one of those that make me ill. She drives a Dodge Ram crewcab, rarely uses the capacity yet cries to high heaven about being broke and spending close to $90 to fill it up.

I'm not trodding on anyone's right to own whatever they want. My only implication is cause and effect. Simple physics. Do I want a larger vehicle myself? Sure! Do I need one? Probably not. Do I want to increase my monthly gas bill from $160/mo to possible $240/mo+ for the priviledge of having a larger car? NO. Therefore, I drive a compact car.

Two things:

A) I am so not defending people who complain about the cost of maintaining the functionality of a vehicle they chose to own in the first place. You made the bed, now lie in it and stuffs. But that's another issue. Those people are annoying, but I wouldn't call them immoral or anything. And who are we to judge? Raise your hand if you've never vocalized regret for a choice you made.

B) Just because you see an empty SUV, Minivan, etc. it does not mean that the person who owns it never makes use of it. And for some people it is easier to keep and maintain one giant vehicle for all their travel needs (even though they may only need it's capacity for a once a week or month use) than it is to own two vehicles to meet their load hauling and regular commuting needs. Either way, they've made the choice, and they don't have to justify it to anyone.



Now, again, I'm just taking issue with the instant assigning of guilt to the people you see in these types of vehicles. I'm not saying no one owns and drives these things when a more efficient vehicle would be a better option for them and would decrease gas use for us all and etc. Of course these people exist. Just like I know murderers are out there somewhere, too. But I'm not about to judge anyone I don't know as being a wasteful asshole, just like I'm not going to automatically assume everyone I see with a handgun permit to be a coldblooded killer.

That attitude isn't gonna help society at all.

Oh, I don't think they have to justify it to anyone. I do think there's an inequity in SUVs being exempt from regulations and luxury taxes treatments that apply to other cars despite the owners pretty much treating them as luxuries. Now sure, one can ask, "Who's to say usage of my SUV counts as a 'luxury' or necessity?" Well, the very notion of there being a luxury tax immediately requires such a distinction to be made.

I judged my mom from seeing her usage. For random strangers, ehh.. lottuvit is during commute times an' I see someone dressed in a suit and drinking coffee while reading memos, so I make the presumption, "That guy's prolly going to work (an' not paying attention to the road and driving a huge vehicle he probably didn't need for that task)." He may derive beneficial usage from it that he feels merits the cost, sure. I just don't think SUV owners currently pay the actual costs of their contribution to environmental problems.

That doesn't sound like that great an example since -- for an extra $50-$100 per tank, at 3-4 tanksfuls a month for one individual who uses it to commute and actually hauls something once or twice on the weekends -- the benefits really don't seem to justify the costs.

But none of that is the fault of the consumer. Why is the guy who bought the SUV the ice hole when your beef is with industry standards?

Well, I do think the guy contributes to there being such poor standards in the first place (obviously, auto makers who push for them aren't helping either). But as said, in the end, I'm not bothered by it all as long as they pay for it an' don't complain about gas prices or pollution -- the expected consequences of their own decisions.

Sure, I think a lot of it is currently wasteful and any desired task could be much more efficiently done if people put effort into coming up with solutions, but no more wasteful than many other areas of our society right now (that we probably don't batch about).

I wasn't trying to make an assumption, I was going from people I personally know that never utilize their SUV or truck. Another example is my grandma. Until recently, she drove a Dodge Cummins 2500 diesel. Why? She liked a high view of the road. Period. It's people like THAT which irritate me. No rational, practical or jusitfiable reason to own such a tank other than "I like it and that's enough." Fine, if you like it you have the right to own it, but also be aware that there are going to be people that will label you for a seemingly irresponsible choice.

Again, I compare the US to the rest of the world. When making car purcahses, the US shows they prefer laziness over efficiency (automatic over manual transmission), laziness over safety (cupholders... something most Europeans gaffed at in the 80s), and laziness over practicality (full size SUVs over mini-crossovers). Only when the US pays as much as Europe does for gas will we learn... and it'll be too late by then.

Well over half of the people I see driving daily here use big ass trucks/SUVs. I know they're not the fairly recent fuel efficient ones either.

Trust me, it goes beyond camping/boating/etc interests... It's used as a damn dick enhancer here.

*Lives in North Texas*

And God Bless. http://www.bumpernuts.com/

sadly some politician tried to get those banned/outlawed recently... I can't remember who but his name must have been "Tool".

IMO the only tool is a guy who has one hanging from the ass of his car

But hey, it's a free country. I'm not sure "vehicle genitalia" was one of those specific items the framers of the Constitution had in mind, though.

I don't drive an SUV, but I drive something almost as bad, a classic Corvette. I get the mileage of a large SUV, but with at least double the horsepower of most. But guess what, i'm still coming out ahead driving it then someone buying a new car that gets double the gas mileage, because if I drove it daily, the amount I would spend to gas it up would still be less than most peoples monthly car payments alone, excluding what they pay for in gas on top of that. Plus the insurance is much lower as well. I own the car outright, I make no payments. Alot of people that are buying their new cars, doesn't matter what type it is, are trading them in on newer vehicles either as soon as they're paid off or close to it. Does the mileage I get in it suck? Hell yeah, but I'm coming out so far ahead of alot of other people. And I'm also making effort towards making it more fuel-efficient on top of everything else.

IMO, if someone has already paid off their truck or SUV, they'll still be in better shape financially then if they decided to trade-in towards or buy a newer vehicle that will only get sometimes a couple more miles per gallon than what they've just paid off. The key is just to not buy more vehicle than one can justifiably afford. You want a truck for utility purposes, and a car to be economical, but you can only afford one or the other new? Try looking at used, and get both for your purposes. SUV's have their purpose, they're not the best choice for a daily driver, especially if you don't have a family. But if you bought it before the gas crunch started, and you've almost got it paid off, the smart thing to do is to finish paying it off and keep driving it, instead of getting another new car.

*agree*

Right, because you know so much about what more than half the city's vehicular needs are...

Thad makes an excellent point - the economical factors of your car are based on so much more than on how often you fill it up, another thing to keep in mind before making a judgment.

Talk to me about driver's "needs." It occurs to me that hardly anyone "needed" an SUV 15 yrs ago, and now everyone seems to "need" one.

FWIW, my issue has less to do with mileage or pollution and everything to do with size. Some SUV's are just a damned dangerous nuisance to have on the roads. I've never been bothered by things like Cherokees or Broncos, but there is NO reason to drive a Hummer or anything of comparable size. They take up too much space and obstruct the view of other drivers who have the sense to drive reasonably-sized vehicles. I'd much rather share the road with a classic car that's pumping out great black clouds of exhaust than have to dodge those beasts at every turn.

Like my fart in the elevator analogy, if nothing else it's inconsiderate.

Times change. 30 years ago, no one needed a cell phone to do business, now it's near impossible to do business without one.

Granted, there's an argument to be made that we now only "need" the cell phone because it came along, and we'd make do if it never showed up, and I think the same thing applies to these giant vehicles. That doesn't negate any need someone might have for it now, though.

And I'm not sure I've ever heard of an accident that occurred because an SUV was blocking someone's sight. If the SUV is blocking your view of another car, it's also between you and the other car. As long as you can see the SUV, and don't hit it, I don't see the problem.

Possibly not, but I have seen quite a few where the vehicle is just too damn big for the driver's skill level. For example, I now hate all parking lots because I know that somewhere in there is a person who got the SUV (or pickup or full size van) to have a big car and be safe but isn't skilled enough to control it and ends up parked straddling two spots or, worse yet, scraping another vehicle because they can't judge where theirs ends.

Explain to me why someone needs a H3 in an urban area? Those definately aren't for movng stuff. The truck companies advertise their great off-roading and ex-military grade trucks to people in urban areas for some reason. Or people buy them because they are more expensive, and having an expensive car makes people think you are special or something.

Why not? 56.4 cu ft. of storage volume and 1,150 lbs. payload capacity could move a number of things.

Also, consider that people living in urban areas are not fenced in and forced to stay in those areas around the clock.

THANK YOU! I hate that too. Combine that with the fact that they make parking perpendicular now instead of diagonal (so they can squeeze in 5 more parking spaces) and it's damn near impossible to park near one of those oversized gashogs.

Quick question: I keep hearing people on the news and the internets say things like "Americans need to change their driving habits" or "Americans need to drive less," etc. My question is - how?

I don't know anyone who just drives around for the hell of it. I seldom if ever go anywhere I don't NEED to go (ie to work, the store, etc). It's not the 50's. Most people don't go on Sunday drives or cruise around aimlessly anymore, so how can we drive less than we already do?

I think "driving habits" is the key phrase. A lot of people drive faster than they have to, for instance. If you have to do a lot of highway driving, cruising at 60MPH is going to conserve more gas than driving 70- by a considerable margin over distance.

toy hunting

Road trip to Ohio, anyone?