Hobbes-timus Prime
Feb 29 2008, 12:07 PM
Not a single news organization is reporting such a story (at least not a current one)...Fox News doesn't even have it on their website. I don't think this is going to happen.
Jerrod
Feb 29 2008, 12:57 PM
QUOTE (Hobbes-timus Prime @ Feb 29 2008, 02:07 PM)

Not a single news organization is reporting such a story (at least not a current one)...Fox News doesn't even have it on their website. I don't think this is going to happen.
According to the letter of the Constitution, its not possible. The twelfth amendment comes into effect on this because of the twenty-second amendment...at least in my reading of it. I'm no Constitutional scholar, mind you.
ROSEDOGGYDOG
Feb 29 2008, 01:00 PM
Here it is
Now seeing the full segment I see what is going on now.
QUOTE (Jerrod @ Feb 29 2008, 12:57 PM)

QUOTE (Hobbes-timus Prime @ Feb 29 2008, 02:07 PM)

Not a single news organization is reporting such a story (at least not a current one)...Fox News doesn't even have it on their website. I don't think this is going to happen.
According to the letter of the Constitution, its not possible. The twelfth amendment comes into effect on this because of the twenty-second amendment...at least in my reading of it. I'm no Constitutional scholar, mind you.
They answer this in the segment, sorta.
Hobbes-timus Prime
Feb 29 2008, 01:04 PM
QUOTE (Jerrod @ Feb 29 2008, 12:57 PM)

QUOTE (Hobbes-timus Prime @ Feb 29 2008, 02:07 PM)

Not a single news organization is reporting such a story (at least not a current one)...Fox News doesn't even have it on their website. I don't think this is going to happen.
According to the letter of the Constitution, its not possible. The twelfth amendment comes into effect on this because of the twenty-second amendment...at least in my reading of it. I'm no Constitutional scholar, mind you.
Well, that's where Bill wanting to know the definition of "elected" comes into play.
The 12th Amendment says, "No person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President."
The 22nd Amendment says, "No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice."
So, does "be elected to" in the 22nd mean "serve"? Because if not, you could maybe make the case he is eligible.
I agree with you in that he shouldn't be legally allowed, but I see the small room for debate on the topic. Although, I don't think the Clinton camp is really looking to argue the point.
Lord Madhammer
Feb 29 2008, 01:24 PM
Meh, Bill Clinton hasn't exactly been an asset to Hillary's campaign thus far.
Cool Hand Lube
Feb 29 2008, 01:37 PM
Bill won't be Hillary's VP. Haven't you noticed that Bill has been all but invisible these last few weeks? Hillary is trying to distance herself from Bill as much as possible lately, especially with all the flak she's catching in Ohio over NAFTA.
Glue
Feb 29 2008, 01:49 PM
It would be more a loophole than anything. The general intent of the amendments has been interpreted to mean that they do not serve more than 2 terms (like say if their first was due to being bumped up from the successor office). The language is probably not much of an issue because the situation has never come up. This would be the first and there's no serious push for it.
ROSEDOGGYDOG
Feb 29 2008, 02:26 PM
QUOTE (Big Daddy @ Feb 29 2008, 01:24 PM)

Meh, Bill Clinton hasn't exactly been an asset to Hillary's campaign thus far.
Neither has anything else, except for crying and her name.
Haggisjin
Feb 29 2008, 05:45 PM
Have you guys seen Hillary's latest attack ad? It really strikes me as more desperate than anything else.
"It's 3am and your children are safe and asleep. But there's a phone in the White House and it's ringing. Something's happening in the world. Your vote will decide who answers that call. Whether it's someone who already knows the world's leaders, knows the military; someone tested and ready to lead in a dangerous world. It's 3am and your children are safe and asleep. Who do you want answering the phone? *Hillary answers phone*"
Lord Madhammer
Feb 29 2008, 06:43 PM
QUOTE (Haggisjin @ Feb 29 2008, 07:45 PM)

Have you guys seen Hillary's latest attack ad? It really strikes me as more desperate than anything else.
"It's 3am and your children are safe and asleep. But there's a phone in the White House and it's ringing. Something's happening in the world. Your vote will decide who answers that call. Whether it's someone who already knows the world's leaders, knows the military; someone tested and ready to lead in a dangerous world. It's 3am and your children are safe and asleep. Who do you want answering the phone? *Hillary answers phone*"
The Obama campaign's response: she already answered the phone in 2002, it was George Bush calling and he wanted to know if he could invade Iraq.
Hobbes-timus Prime
Feb 29 2008, 07:09 PM
QUOTE (Big Daddy @ Feb 29 2008, 06:43 PM)

QUOTE (Haggisjin @ Feb 29 2008, 07:45 PM)

Have you guys seen Hillary's latest attack ad? It really strikes me as more desperate than anything else.
"It's 3am and your children are safe and asleep. But there's a phone in the White House and it's ringing. Something's happening in the world. Your vote will decide who answers that call. Whether it's someone who already knows the world's leaders, knows the military; someone tested and ready to lead in a dangerous world. It's 3am and your children are safe and asleep. Who do you want answering the phone? *Hillary answers phone*"
The Obama campaign's response: she already answered the phone in 2002, it was George Bush calling and he wanted to know if he could invade Iraq.
DarkNarcoleptic
Feb 29 2008, 07:11 PM
Indeed...fail
ROSEDOGGYDOG
Mar 1 2008, 12:15 PM
QUOTE (Hobbes-timus Prime @ Feb 29 2008, 07:09 PM)

QUOTE (Big Daddy @ Feb 29 2008, 06:43 PM)

QUOTE (Haggisjin @ Feb 29 2008, 07:45 PM)

Have you guys seen Hillary's latest attack ad? It really strikes me as more desperate than anything else.
"It's 3am and your children are safe and asleep. But there's a phone in the White House and it's ringing. Something's happening in the world. Your vote will decide who answers that call. Whether it's someone who already knows the world's leaders, knows the military; someone tested and ready to lead in a dangerous world. It's 3am and your children are safe and asleep. Who do you want answering the phone? *Hillary answers phone*"
The Obama campaign's response: she already answered the phone in 2002, it was George Bush calling and he wanted to know if he could invade Iraq.
Lord Madhammer
Mar 3 2008, 05:02 AM
Jerrod
Mar 3 2008, 05:48 AM
QUOTE (Big Daddy @ Mar 3 2008, 07:02 AM)

SCANDALOUS!
Or not, really. A winking rejection of something questionable about an opponent she's locked into a statistical dead-heat with in key states that could save her campaign? The gall of her--or anyone--resorting to
politics!
The cosmic ballet goes on.
Hobbes-timus Prime
Mar 3 2008, 06:56 AM
QUOTE (Jerrod @ Mar 3 2008, 05:48 AM)

QUOTE (Big Daddy @ Mar 3 2008, 07:02 AM)

SCANDALOUS!
Or not, really. A winking rejection of something questionable about an opponent she's locked into a statistical dead-heat with in key states that could save her campaign? The gall of her--or anyone--resorting to
politics!
The cosmic ballet goes on.
But it's not really questionable. It's verifiable that it's false. I mean, sure, none of us can truly know the mind of Obama, and he could be involved in some super intense hoax on the American people - but it's as much fact as anything she's ever said about herself can be to the rest of us.
She would have earned a lot of respect from me if she'd said something more like, "He's not, but so what if he was? Get a life, jerk off." But I get that that would've been campaign suicide.
Lord Madhammer
Mar 3 2008, 07:08 AM
That is the one thing that's gone unmentioned in all of this...
What exactly WOULD be wrong with someone being a Muslim?
That's the most insidious aspect of this whole thing IMO. And while I'm not surprised when I see such xenophobic attitudes from the right, it's downright shocking to me to see it from the left. Clinton didn't do herself any favors at all with that comment, assuming that she intended nothing by it... assuming that she didn't deliberately phrase her comments in such a way as to invite doubt.
This is worth reading:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp
Jerrod
Mar 3 2008, 07:21 AM
QUOTE (Hobbes-timus Prime @ Mar 3 2008, 08:56 AM)

QUOTE (Jerrod @ Mar 3 2008, 05:48 AM)

QUOTE (Big Daddy @ Mar 3 2008, 07:02 AM)

SCANDALOUS!
Or not, really. A winking rejection of something questionable about an opponent she's locked into a statistical dead-heat with in key states that could save her campaign? The gall of her--or anyone--resorting to
politics!
The cosmic ballet goes on.
But it's not really questionable. It's verifiable that it's false. I mean, sure, none of us can truly know the mind of Obama, and he could be involved in some super intense hoax on the American people - but it's as much fact as anything she's ever said about herself can be to the rest of us.
She would have earned a lot of respect from me if she'd said something more like, "He's not, but so what if he was? Get a life, jerk off." But I get that that would've been campaign suicide.

So, as morally shaky as it is, how is it not par for the course? I know the Obama love/Clinton hate thing is predominant here, but there's a damn good reason the Obama campaign fails to ever mention Barack's middle name, and Clinton ran with it. By saying all she has to go on is what Obama has claimed, she isn't lying, but she's planted that kernel of doubt using well-placed inflection that will maybe, just maybe, tip some folks over the edge. Well played, Clinton.
Lord Madhammer
Mar 3 2008, 07:27 AM
QUOTE (Jerrod @ Mar 3 2008, 09:21 AM)

QUOTE (Hobbes-timus Prime @ Mar 3 2008, 08:56 AM)

QUOTE (Jerrod @ Mar 3 2008, 05:48 AM)

QUOTE (Big Daddy @ Mar 3 2008, 07:02 AM)

SCANDALOUS!
Or not, really. A winking rejection of something questionable about an opponent she's locked into a statistical dead-heat with in key states that could save her campaign? The gall of her--or anyone--resorting to
politics!
The cosmic ballet goes on.
But it's not really questionable. It's verifiable that it's false. I mean, sure, none of us can truly know the mind of Obama, and he could be involved in some super intense hoax on the American people - but it's as much fact as anything she's ever said about herself can be to the rest of us.
She would have earned a lot of respect from me if she'd said something more like, "He's not, but so what if he was? Get a life, jerk off." But I get that that would've been campaign suicide.

So, as morally shaky as it is, how is it not par for the course? I know the Obama love/Clinton hate thing is predominant here, but there's a damn good reason the Obama campaign fails to ever mention Barack's middle name, and Clinton ran with it. By saying all she has to go on is what Obama has claimed, she isn't lying, but she's planted that kernel of doubt using well-placed inflection that will maybe, just maybe, tip some folks over the edge. Well played, Clinton.
So you've got no problem with her (potentially -- benefit of the doubt here) throwing the entire Muslim population of the world under a bus, not to mention playing to one of the most scurrilous and UNTRUE rumors that is circulating only among people who either a) are ignorant or b) have an agenda, just for the sake of pulling her own political ass out of the fire when she can't win on issues?
Jerrod
Mar 3 2008, 07:32 AM
QUOTE (Big Daddy @ Mar 3 2008, 09:08 AM)

That is the one thing that's gone unmentioned in all of this...What exactly WOULD be wrong with someone being a Muslim?That's the most insidious aspect of this whole thing IMO. And while I'm not surprised when I see such xenophobic attitudes from the right, it's downright shocking to me to see it from the left. Clinton didn't do herself any favors at all with that comment, assuming that she intended nothing by it... assuming that she didn't deliberately phrase her comments in such a way as to invite doubt.This is worth reading:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.aspYeah, yeah...in a perfect world, sure, what WOULD be wrong with having a Muslim president? Nothing.
But in the US today, the word "Muslim" is most commonly associated with "terrorism," like it or not. Damn straight it shouldn't be that way, but the fact of the matter is that it
is. The right knows it, and so does the left. There's no way in hell either side would nominate a Muslim in today's society. They wouldn't nominate ANY non-Christian, frankly. They aren't dumb...they both wanna win.
QUOTE (Big Daddy @ Mar 3 2008, 09:27 AM)

So you've got no problem with her (potentially -- benefit of the doubt here) throwing the entire Muslim population of the world under a bus, not to mention playing to one of the most scurrilous and UNTRUE rumors that is circulating only among people who either a) are ignorant or b) have an agenda, just for the sake of pulling her own political ass out of the fire when she can't win on issues?
I never said I didn't have a moral beef with it. But what do you expect here? Politics is not the domain of scruples.
Lord Madhammer
Mar 3 2008, 07:37 AM
Winning at all costs =/= "winning". Just because the current political climate is poisonous, that doesn't mean that it has always been that way, nor that it should always remain so.
Jerrod
Mar 3 2008, 07:45 AM
Pie in the sky is fine and dandy, but I've got a feeling I'll be getting my universal health care ID card in the mail the same day the political climate in this country becomes something I can actually be proud of and not someting I scoff at due to the sheer damage every aspect of it does, from top to bottom. Which, I'm guessing, will be the fourth of never.
But seriously, I'd love to be proven wrong on both fronts.
Lord Madhammer
Mar 3 2008, 07:52 AM
QUOTE (Jerrod @ Mar 3 2008, 09:45 AM)

Pie in the sky is fine and dandy, but I've got a feeling I'll be getting my universal health care ID card in the mail the same day the political climate in this country becomes something I can actually be proud of and not someting I scoff at due to the sheer damage every aspect of it does, from top to bottom. Which, I'm guessing, will be the fourth of never.
But seriously, I'd love to be proven wrong on both fronts.
Well, as I said, if you actually study the history of politics in this country, you will find that the current political climate was birthed during the Vietnam era, and it is the people of that generation who have been dominating politics ever since. But the subsequent, post-Vietnam generation is now gaining ascendancy in politics, and I believe it wants to shelve a lot of those old ways of thinking.
ROSEDOGGYDOG
Mar 3 2008, 08:43 AM
I like what Bill had to say about her (not O'Reilly but Maher) and her phases against Obama. Crying < Sweetness < Anger < Sarcasm.
Glue
Mar 3 2008, 10:59 AM
Man.. you guys read waaaay more into her words and intentions than is credible. The issue would not be about whether being a Muslim is wrong or not but whether he's intentionally covering something up that the public is afraid of (whether that fear is appropriate or not).
"I think there's just a lot more tea-leaf reading going on here than I think people are suggesting." -- Barack Obama.
Listen to the man. It doesn't just apply in one direction.
Lord Madhammer
Mar 3 2008, 11:07 AM
QUOTE (Glue @ Mar 3 2008, 12:59 PM)

Man.. you guys read waaaay more into her words and intentions than is credible. The issue would not be about whether being a Muslim is wrong or not but whether he's intentionally covering something up that the public is afraid of (whether that fear is appropriate or not).
"I think there's just a lot more tea-leaf reading going on here than I think people are suggesting." -- Barack Obama.
Listen to the man. It doesn't just apply in one direction.
There is no covering up of anything. It's all a matter of public record. Read the snopes.com link I provided. Clinton called on Obama to "denounce and reject" Farrakhan... I think that should also not just apply in one direction.
Glue
Mar 3 2008, 11:24 AM
Yeah, but it's the rest of the American public who need to read the snopes article, seeing as their the doofs with the issues in the first place. But I don't see anything Clinton said as "playing off it".
Not familiar with the issue about Farrakhan, but while he doesn't seem like someone to buddy up with, calling on Obama to denounce and reject him probably isn't necessary either. One of many reasons I'd prefer to see Obama win this ticket.
Lord Madhammer
Mar 3 2008, 11:31 AM
QUOTE (Glue @ Mar 3 2008, 01:24 PM)

Yeah, but it's the rest of the American public who need to read the snopes article, seeing as their the doofs with the issues in the first place. But I don't see anything Clinton said as "playing off it".
Not familiar with the issue about Farrakhan, but while he doesn't seem like someone to buddy up with, calling on Obama to denounce and reject him probably isn't necessary either. One of many reasons I'd prefer to see Obama win this ticket.
My point is that "I take him at his word" and "as far as I know" are traditional "non-denial denial" political phrases. She knows perfectly well (as does anyone else who bothers to watch / read the news) that Obama has never been Muslim, so there's no need at all for her to equivocate on it. Now, as I said above, I can give her the benefit of the doubt -- maybe she just kept talking when she should have STFU'D and ran out of ways to say it. But I have a hard time believing that it was completely unintentional.
Hunter Rose
Mar 3 2008, 11:34 AM
QUOTE (Big Daddy @ Mar 3 2008, 11:31 AM)

QUOTE (Glue @ Mar 3 2008, 01:24 PM)

Yeah, but it's the rest of the American public who need to read the snopes article, seeing as their the doofs with the issues in the first place. But I don't see anything Clinton said as "playing off it".
Not familiar with the issue about Farrakhan, but while he doesn't seem like someone to buddy up with, calling on Obama to denounce and reject him probably isn't necessary either. One of many reasons I'd prefer to see Obama win this ticket.
My point is that "I take him at his word" and "as far as I know" are traditional "non-denial denial" political phrases. She knows perfectly well (as does anyone else who bothers to watch / read the news) that Obama has never been Muslim, so there's no need at all for her to equivocate on it. Now, as I said above, I can give her the benefit of the doubt -- maybe she just kept talking when she should have STFU'D and ran out of ways to say it. But I have a hard time believing that it was completely unintentional.
I dont get the question - isn't it a bit like asking Obama what he thinks of Hillery and Bill's sex life?
I mean the inherent racism/xenophobia aside - if the Muslim issue is so big - why not ask Obama.
Whether his church of choice hurts or helps him is independent of Hillary's OPINON on what helps or hurts him...
Lord Madhammer
Mar 3 2008, 11:36 AM
I don't know the context in the full interview, but I have to agree -- there's no point IMO in asking Clinton whether she thinks Obama is/was a Muslim.
Glue
Mar 3 2008, 11:49 AM
It was a bad question. But at least she didn't flip out saying the F-word a billion times on camera.
Hunter Rose
Mar 3 2008, 12:26 PM

who did that?
DarkNarcoleptic
Mar 3 2008, 01:45 PM
ya rly...
Lord Madhammer
Mar 4 2008, 06:43 AM
*voted*
*plans to caucus tonight*
Hobbes-timus Prime
Mar 4 2008, 06:51 AM
QUOTE (Big Daddy @ Mar 4 2008, 06:43 AM)

*voted*
*plans to caucus tonight*
*gets angry at Hillary when she contests Texas's "complex primary system"*
Lord Madhammer
Mar 4 2008, 06:56 AM
The Texas Democratic Party has already made it plain to her campaign that they would not be happy with any shenanigans, given that the Democratic Party in Texas is finally starting to gain some ground this year. They don't want to see that torpedoed by ...well, by any of that nonsense.
Hobbes-timus Prime
Mar 4 2008, 07:13 AM
Yeah, I don't think it'll really be an issue. And a well placed "S'funny, the system worked fine when Bill campaigned here" will, I think, cause her more harm than good if she does try to contest it.
SkyClonus
Mar 4 2008, 07:15 AM
Cuz, ya know, caucus states are dominated by radicals, we all know that.
sertile
Mar 4 2008, 07:46 AM
Limbaugh Sez: Vote for Clinton!
QUOTE
(CNN) – As Hillary Clinton battles to keep her presidential bid alive, she may be getting help from an unlikely source: conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh.
Limbaugh has been actively urging his Texas listeners to cross over and vote for Clinton in that state's open primary Tuesday, arguing it helps the Republicans if the Democratic race remains unsettled for weeks to come.
"I want Hillary to stay in this…this is too good a soap opera," Limbaugh told fellow conservative talk-show host Laura Ingraham on Fox News Friday. He reiterated the comments on his Monday show and replayed the exchange with Ingram.
He also said Clinton is more willing than the Republican National Committee and John McCain's campaign to criticize Barack Obama.
"We need Barack Obama bloodied up politically. It's obvious that the Republicans are not going to do it, they don't have the stomach for it," Limbaugh continued. "As you probably know we're getting all kinds of memos from the RNC saying we're not going to be critical. Mark McKinnon of McCain's campaign said he'll quit if they get critical over Obama. This is the presidency of the United States we're talking about. I want our party to win I want the Democrats to lose.”
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/...te-for-clinton/
SkyClonus
Mar 4 2008, 07:49 AM
Gotta love the political process...someone HAS to bloody him up.
Lord Madhammer
Mar 4 2008, 08:07 AM
SkyClonus
Mar 4 2008, 08:11 AM
It's funny/sad how those types wrap themselved in patriotism but it's really all about themselves...
Lord Madhammer
Mar 4 2008, 08:28 AM
"PARTISANSHIP IS GOOD FOR MY JOB SECURITY OUR COUNTRY!"
ROSEDOGGYDOG
Mar 4 2008, 09:55 AM
Help her win now so we can beat her later.
Lord Madhammer
Mar 4 2008, 10:02 AM
Or you could just vote for the candidate you prefer without playing these stupid "I MUST BREAK YOU" games... I know. it's a crazy thought
Hobbes-timus Prime
Mar 4 2008, 10:02 AM
QUOTE (ROSEDOGGYDOG @ Mar 4 2008, 09:55 AM)

Help her win now so we can beat her later.
Except that Limbaugh doesn't want McCain to be president, either. Is he hoping Nader beats her?
ROSEDOGGYDOG
Mar 4 2008, 10:04 AM
I think its a big ploy myself. Once the two are decided on everyone will file to their respective corners.
Hobbes-timus Prime
Mar 4 2008, 10:18 AM
QUOTE
On the local conservative radio stations, many Republicans are calling and complaining about feeling “disenfranchised”.
Apparently, they didn’t realize that by implementing Rush Limbaugh’s strategy of voting for Hillary in the Primaries to prolong the Democrats fist-fight, they would not be allowed to vote for any of the Republicans on the rest of the ballot.
D'oh!
Source.
Jerrod
Mar 4 2008, 10:27 AM
QUOTE (Hobbes-timus Prime @ Mar 4 2008, 12:18 PM)

QUOTE
On the local conservative radio stations, many Republicans are calling and complaining about feeling “disenfranchised”.
Apparently, they didn’t realize that by implementing Rush Limbaugh’s strategy of voting for Hillary in the Primaries to prolong the Democrats fist-fight, they would not be allowed to vote for any of the Republicans on the rest of the ballot.
D'oh!
Source.Funny. Texas isn't used to mattering whatsoever in these primary elections, so its natural these yokels would be confounded.
Speaking of not being used to mattering, I'm getting a bit star-struck knowing that a few hours ago McCain was at a restaurant a few blocks away from where I'm at now, and that tonight Obama's rally will literally be across the street from work here. I'm giggling like a little girl!
Hobbes-timus Prime
Mar 4 2008, 10:33 AM
McCain likes himself some Whataburger?
LA needs a Whataburger.
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