Well G1 S3 BW had some sort of connection to the Quints. He knew of them somehow.

Again, I doubt that they're going to explore any of this in the cartoon since it is aimed at a younger audience than the new Batman cartoon. Human-Transformer relations will probably be very black and white.

I rather liked it. Just finished watching it on YouTube. Lack of cable has made me resort to this method.

I liked Prime's reaction to Sari telling him about reproduction.

The way Sentinal Prime behaved with Optimus. Almost...brotherly. They even had similar heads. Me thinks some sibling rivalry is on the way.

I'm looking forward to the rest of the Decepticons coming to Earth and them discovering Professor Sumdac's connection with Megatron.

Oh, if you want a download, PM me. Not sure about the rules on posting it here.

I know I promised blitz to behave & be & good queen, so i'll make this short. in regaurds to the animation style, I've read many of you don't like it "needed some getting use to". but my point is this. its very obvious that "hollywood" has its gurbby greedy hands in the whole thing. some one already said that its obvious that this is targeted at a very young audiance like the toon "the batman".
so why I ask you are all of our toons getting younger & younger! why are we as parents so scared of doing our kids harm that we fear the type of things we grew up on (ok, so I'm not gonna be able to keep this short, at least I'm not cap locking). the next time you pass a dvd boxset of "WB's Loony Toons", turn it over & read the disclamer at the bottem.
it states the content is not suitable for kids. reason is here in the up tight US its believed the content is too political, race related, & at times too violent (i.e. when a toon will put a pistol to their head & comit suiside). not to mention many of these classic toons are seen consuming alchol & getting drunk.
yet here we are, all grown up & most of us turned out ok. not that I'm laying blame on the younger generations, but you guyz (dispite all the censorship that you grew up with), still tend to fly off the hinge & do things like comit mass murder (wow this realy became a speech didn't it).
ok ok i'll wrap it up. in conclusion Hollywood need to stop patronizing the middle class all the while trying to cash in on it. its like there saying "lets make it realy kiddy so parents will go for it, & we can have a wider demographic which translates in to more money for the studio".
ok I'm done.

I think you need to look at the context in which those things happened. The only reason why Prowl and Prime are alive at the end of the show is because of Sari's Magical Allspark Key. Which is a lot different from (as I mentioned) being shot down from 50,000 feet, hitting the ground, standing up and being like "I'm fine." The point is that people (er, "robots") *can* die in this show -- it doesn't play fast and loose with reality in that sense. You may not like the convenience of Sari's key as a plot device, but she still has to bring them back from the brink of death (or in Prime's case, actual death) in the first place.

oh and BTW Supremequeen, cartoons are skewing towards a younger demographic these days because kids are losing interest in toys and cartoons at an earlier age nowadays (thanks in large part to video games). Which is why you see more "adult collectible" stuff as well as more kiddie stuff. There's a gap in the middle that's been widening for some time.

ok big daddy, i'll go along w/that. but which came 1st, the campy animation, or the lack of intrest???
for instance, I was TFs biggest fans out there in the 80ies. but I think the last TFs I bought were "Snap Dragon" (a triple changer I think) & "Dredwing". I lost intrest in TF when it "Jumped the shark w/all that crap Hasbro thew at us after the movie.
Hell even they in the dvd extras section said that after the movie it was all about marketing (well yes TF was always about marketing, but you get my point).
in hind sight I think I flamed this terriable toon so bad because...........well....................i guess I just felt betrayed. here I am one of TFs biggest fans, & the best they could do was some hokie pokie toon. I just feel cheated! its die hard fans like us who fill their convention hall year after year. its adult fans like us w/out adult saleries who make or break their companies.
& yes damn it, they do owe us a toon that pleases the eyes & the mind!

No it isn't. Hasbro's own market research indicates that the adult fan is 15% of their total market, the other 85% sales to people buying young children what they want.

Supremequeen, I guess it depends upon your perspective. From my point of view as a Transformers fan, I've had to put up with a lot of mediocrity for the past five to six years. In my opinion, Animated is already proving itself to be the "dream" combination of G1 and Beast Wars that so many have been hoping for. I would advise you not to get hung up on the animation style -- lord knows that Beast Wars' animation hasn't held up well over time. But what gives that show lasting appeal is the story & characters. I suspect the same will be true here as well.

ok, so maby I was being too general. to tell the truth I have no flipping idea what Hasbro brings down company wide. but I do know its the die hard TF fan who's bringing home the bacon in terms of TFs.

No, it isn't. Kids are. I just told you the percentages.

"But why male models?"

todays kids are buying from an already established market. a market that was established by the 30 something year olds. & to to be quite honest I'm not so sure i'd go along w/that data.
todays kids don't have anything to compair these crap toys & toons to.
so its like I can't say "boy, I sure do miss eating es-car-go", when in fact I've never in my life eatin a snail (& I hope it stays that way).
so of corse these kids will say "oh mommie buy me this", when they unlike us, have never had a quility kool toy in their short lil lives. you can't miss or demand what you never had!

The fact remains that the adult collector market is a small percentage of the overall toy market. And to be honest, only adult collectors could bitch so much about a cartoon to begin with.

If the quality of a toy was an objective issue, instead of subjective, you might have the beginnings of a point. But, as a toys "quility kool" factor is a matter of opinion, not so much.

yes I know. that's because we as collectors have exquisite taste, while the rest of the obtuse minded "go along to get along," world simply does not.

I thought it was just because collectors were stuck in the past.

you know, when they were kids themselves and had no discernment

Hobbs your quite correct. all this boils down to personal taste & opinion. but let's look at it like this. the animation style on TF-A is compairable to "Ben 10" or "Teen Titians" right.
hold on, quote box is full. brb

ok I'm back. so the concept of teen titans or various incarnations of it will survive the ages. when I'm old & gray & ready for death, there will still be teen titans. reason is, it comes from a legacy, an established instatution like DC comics.
there for it like all of DC stuff will weather time quite well. now this Ben 10 stuff. well its cute & all but has nothing but its self to lean on. in 10 or 20 years time it will be lost forever to the endless depths of time! hell in 50 years time, you won't even be able to goole the thing.
so yes, kids will continue to buy & watch crap toys & tv, because they don't know any better. but only the real deal companies who at some point in time were about something kool & worth while will surive to make it thru to the next generation.

Let's compare apples to apples here. If you want to compare franchises, compare the original versions of those franchises. Of course "Ben Ten" has nothing but itself to lean on -- it's a new cartoon. In 1984, Transformers was the same way. You don't have any way of knowing what will endure and what won't. And it certainly won't have anything to do with quality, if Transformers is any indication.

That's got nothing to do with your point about adult collectors supporting the line, and there's no evidence that Ben 10's longevity or lack thereof is based on its animation style and not its writing, toy line, or a hundred other factors. However, I will say that the live action movie CN is making out of the show suggests the audience may be a little stronger than you give it credit for.

THANK YOU BIG DADDY!!! & that ladies & gentilmen was check & checkmate!
that's absolutely correct. G1 TF endured very well. & why was that? because it was quailty! todays kiddy toon are so lame & genreic its pathetic. they won't make it to the next decade let alone the next generation.
if real thought & effort were to have been put in to toons like ben 10 & others, then maby they would stand the test of time. another prime example is Thunder Cats. the show had it animé feel & a good storyline. yes it to like TF jumped the shark, but not before establishing its self as a timeless classic.
that's why Hollywood is turning to the 30 something year olds childhood to cash in. brb

Uh, I don't think he was agreeing with you. His point was counter to your own.

seriously

I don't know why I keep feeding him

I'm back. ok big daddy don't get me wrong, its would shock me if Hollywood in the next couple of years made a live action movie of ben10 or some other generic toon.
its hot right now, or as the old timers would say, its "Flash in the pan". but 25 years later?? hell no! like I said they won't even remember the name ben10. & that because its a very generic toon & has nothing special about it, not like the toons of the 80ies or even eariler.

Try and keep up, they already did!

its called irony.
well this queen has work to do, so if you please, me thinks I shall return to Mt. Olympus with my Laurels in tow. till next time, keep the faith kiddies!

oh come ON dude.

The only thing special about toons of the 80's is that you grew up with them. Cartoons in the 80's were in the animation ghetto. They had hardly any budget or writing talent compared to the stuff nowadays. Consider the fact that there is a cable channel called "Cartoon Network" that actually produces its own cartoons. Same goes for Nickelodeon.

You need to learn how to separate your own (potent) nostalgia from actual quality.

maby your right. maby I am a lil bias. but the fact remains that the only time hollywood turns to todays toon is when it "whit hot & fresh from the fire".
as soon as the flash in the pan fades so will hollywood. however hollywood will now & for ever raid the 80ies & earlier toon "goodie box" 50 years from now.
& your perscious ben 10 will be nothing to hollywood but a used con......, well I'm sure you know how that word ends. it was good while it lasted but now its time to get back to my wife "aka real toons" w/quitlty uniqueness, & great animation.
funny how the "other woman never learnes, the husband never leaves his wife in the end!
(wow, I realy wasn't trying to use a marrige metaphor, it just kinda happened that way).

The 80's are enjoying a resurgence in popularity right now, which is one major reason why a Transformers movie even got greenlit in the first place. Every studio in Hollywood rejected the movie when they were shopping it around initially.

edit: the last bit of my post was a bit douchey

The other main thing about cartoons from the 80s was that whole Toy Commercial concept that wasnt thought of beforehand or was actively legislated against or something - at any rate - 20 min. Toy commercials were suddenly acceptable.
(of course this point actually works against rather than for the "quality show argument".



The reason 80s are hitting their resurgence now is because - Dun Dun DUN - all the kids from the 80s are now in their 30s and are making the decisions for their families and companies....

In 5 years we are all going to cringe when the 90s has its comeback....
(feck - i cant even think of anything from the 90s that is worth resurging anyway, but my Lil Brother loves the 90's, hes 5 years younger than me, so there you go... )

I thought the same thing when the 70's came back... MEMORIES OF KID-SIZED BROWN LEISURE SUITS

Street Sharks: The Motion Picture!
Superhuman Samurai Syber Squad 2.0!
Joel Silver presents Rob Cohen's Digimon!

Oh...that is gonna suck.

welcome to the perspective of a 40-year-old re: the Transformers movie.

And let's not forget the brilliance of Beverly Hills 90210 and the majesty of Party Of Five - remade into 90 minute Dramadies

Ok Here goes.


I was at Wal-mart one day and saw a lady in her 30's-40's buying an Ultimate Bumblebee. Well me being the nosy person I am asks her, "Are you buying for a collector?"
She Replies, "No it's for my 3yo son. H loves the Transformers. He'll probably have it broken within an hour after I give it to him but I'll just get him another one."
At this point in my head I was beating the lady and being dragged out of the store. But I just smiled and went on.



The point is you have 2 types of people buying the toys.

1: Someone buying them for kids.

2: Collectors.

Who spends more, well it's probably about the same. You have a lot more parents out there than collectors but parents don't tend to buy the special TF's like imports, statues and other collector specific stuff.

Hasbro only makes the stuff because fans demand it and they make $$ off of it. If fans demanded it but it made no $$ they wouldn't make it. The thing is TF:A was demanded by enough people to make it worth Hasbro to allow to be created. They will make a lot of $$ off of it and it is definitely presented for kids.

Now the TF comics are presented for older fans. And if you have never read the comics you should, they are good. And they fill in the void left buy not having a more mature TF cartoon.


Now in a perfect world You would have 2 cartoons. TF:A on Saturday mornings for the Kids and TF:WAR on Friday nights for the older fans with animation like Pitt or the Spawn cartoons. That would be great! But it won't happen. At least not for a long while.

Now for the good news. Beast wars 2 will be coming to the US. However it is not CGI but it does bring back the G1 style animation. They are currently doing the voice acting for it and held auditions several months ago for the voice actors here in the US. "I didn't make it."

For a good long time Hasbro will have quite a bit of material to make new toys off of. And as soon as Animated goes away BW2 will be ready to go and we will be right back here complaining about it.

You have no way to determine that.


And Hasbro usually isn't the one to produce, and therefore not the one to get paid for, imports, statues, and other collector specific stuff.


Donna Martin graduates! Donna Martin graduates! Donna Martin graduates!

One other bit of demographic information to add to the mix: toy buying was higher in the 80's because the children of baby boomers were in the toy-buying age range. More recently, it's been the children of Gen-X'ers who are in that same age range, and there aren't nearly as many of them. It's predicted that toy purchasing will experience a major uptick once the kids-of-boomers generation are all buying toys for their own kids.

Is this just fan speculation and hearsay, or is this true? I can see Hasbro having this as a backup for when Animated finishes, or maybe as an "Adult Swim" late night feature for older fans, but I really don't think it's going to happen. BW2, even redubbed, rewritten, and renamed, is an old cartoon. I don't see where Hasbro could market toys that are a step backwards technology wise. It seems that Headmasters would be a more logical choice, but I could be wrong.

Still, I don't think it would happen, as much as I'd love it to.

Perhaps for a DVD release.

Here you go, it's a little old but it's being worked on.

http://www.seibertron.com/news/view.php?id=10742

That's a fan project, doesn't look like an official Hasbro release. Still, I'll be down with checking it out when they're done. Thanks for the link.

If it looks like it's going to make any $$ hasbro will be all over it.

I don't think Hasbro would have anything to do with it, since it doesn't own licensing rights to Beast Wars II.

... there has been no discussion of Transformers Animated for the past two pages, only Hobbes and Big Daddy feeding an irritating troll. Please stop that, guys. He's not going to stop, so you guys need to stop helping him.

I just realized. The only Autobot that should have a firepower score above 0 is Bumblebee. He's the only Autobot with any kind of a gun. I guess it depends on whether you'd count Bulkhead's wrecking balls as Firepower or not.

I'll talk about Animated after Saturday

Hey, if the Admin's doing it...


Good point, although they're all packing "ranged" weapons of some sort (magnetic fields, throwing stars, wrecking ball, grappling rope/net things), Bumbles has the closest thing to a gun on the team.

I've already Tivo'd Windows Media Center'd Animated for Saturday morning. Because I won't be up that early >_>

just because you may be to obtuse to follow along, doesn't mean our conversation has no relavance. the point I brought up was very simple. that being TF-A is doing nothing but rideing the good name of TFs as a means of getting rateings.
its animation style lacks quality to keep the line alive. while I'm sure TFs will live this latest embarrassment down & go on to the next generation, there is no way in hell that this preticular incarnation of TFs,or any toon that's been dumbed down w/this campy style of animation in the new millinia, will ever be fondly remembered the way we remember toons like: G1TFs, thunder cats, silver hawks, galaxy rangers, hell even one of the late commer of the 80ies like Bionic six have more originalty & flavor than the generic toons of today.
so don't say what we've been discussing is ilrelavant, because its not.
however if thers some other aspect of this lil fisher price toon u'd like to talk about, then by all means go right ahead hot shot.
the floors all yours.