I have finally decided on what I am going to get for my next computer. Yea I always upgrade because of games and no other purpose. Here is my history.

We start in 1996, I have a 386... a 386 SERVER that is but it sucked and I wanted to play Quake, so I upgraded. This was it:
Pentium 133MHz, Voodoo Rush 3dfx 6MB PCI, 24MB RAM, SoundBlaster 16, oh those were the days.

Then... came along a fine game called Quake II... oh I wanted to play that, and after a purchase, so I did. This was my first computer I built myself and it was a dandy.
Pentium 233MHz
Voodoo 3 3300 16MB PCI (which I traded for a GeForce MX and $20)
64MB RAM

Then... I wanted to play Return to Castle Wolfenstein... so I put together this beauty:
Pentium III 533BMHZ (yea that's a B in there)
786MB RAM
Guillemont 128 voice PCI sound
Winders 98
I still got this one but its up to a 1GHz CPU with a bad motherboard.

Then I wanted to play ... you know, I don't remember what I wanted to play... maybe SoF II but I'm not sure. Anyways, this is my current computer.
purchased in 2001
Antec full-tower case (never again...)
Intel D850MV Motherboard, 400MHz FSB, integrated sound (bought on accident, wanted the LAN version)
Intel Pentium 4 1.7GHz CPU (fastest available)
2x 256MB RDRAM 186 pin @ 800MHz (that's Rambus for you rookies and) = 512MB
Creative SoundBlaster Audigy Gamer PCI
Creative Audigy 5500 (that's a Dolby 5.1 surround sound speaker system)
PNY nVidia GeForce 3 TI 200 64MB AGP 2x
This computer came out to about $2200 back then. It lasted me until....

OBLIVION! DAMMIT!
upgraded CPU to Pentium 4 2.0GHz (maximum supported by board)
upgraded video card to Sapphire ATI Radeon 9600XT 256MB AGP 4x video card

Then I looked at RAM prices... I wanted to go to 1GB RAM maybe... oh... $400 you say? Well let's look at 2GB of RAM... $900????? WTF. OK here is a lesson to be learned. This is the risk you pay at being an early adopted in a technology. Yes, we all know that Rambus had failed because it was too expensive. It wasn't until around 2005 that the technology was surpassed by the "cheaper" technologies. Let us also not forget that Rambus was revised into a 172 pin package... which is comparatively cheaper...

I want to play Fallout 3 and Crysis... So instead of laying down nearly a grand to upgrade my RAM, I decided to spec out a new computer to build. Here are the results....

Intel DX38BT Retail motherboard
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHz CPU
2x Sapphire I00207L Radeon HD 2600PRO 512MB video cards (yea the board supports Crossfire)
Corsair 2GB 240-pin DDR3 SDRAM @1333MHz (and later to 4 or 8GB)
160GB Western Digital SATA HDD
400GB Western Digital SATA HDD
Antec P182 Gun Metal Black 0.8mm Cold Rolled Steel ATX Mid-Tower Case Retail
Thermaltake ToughPower W0105RU 700 watt Power Supply (Crossfire Ready)
USB Apple Pro Keyboard (teh oldie)
Windows Vista (unknown dist) vLite'd
SoundBlaster X-Fi Extreme Gamer 7.1 Retail

This would hit around $1200 or so when I am done, which is half what I paid for my current computer. If this one can last me 7 years also, it will be great!

What do you have or plan to get?

Dude, 2600PRO? why not upgrade to 2900XT?

Dude, don't go with that graphics card/s or the ram. DDR3 does not show any performance advantages beyond a few percentage points over DDR2. You'll get better performance upgrading to 4 gigs of DDR2 800 MHZ and dual-channeling the ram. Another thing, HD2600s suck ass. Either go with one 2900XT or two HD 3870s if you want to stick with ATi. Get an 8800 GT if you want to go with nVidia.

Also, due to the way ATi does Crossfire, it does jackBlot with Crysis.

I'd also make sure you get a 64 bit version of Vista otherwise you won't be able to upgrade your ram for Blot.

as for your past PCs, I noticed a few errors in the side statements. The P4 1.7 GHZ wasn't the fastest CPU at the time due to the way Intel bungled the first edition of the Netburst architecture. You would have been better off with an athlon or a fast P3. Seriously.

Also, DDR caught up with RDRAM in 2004 when dual-channel hit Intel's DDR chipsets.


As for me, here's the PC i'm gonna put together in a few months:

Rosewill RCW-900 10ft. /DVI-A(24+5) To VGA HD15M Cable /Black - Retail $4.99

Link Depot 6 ft. 24K Gold Plate S-Video Cable Model HTS-SVI-6 - Retail $2.89


Open Box: MSI NX8600GTS-T2D256E-OC GeForce 8600GTS 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card $113.99

COOLER MASTER eXtreme Power Plus RS-460-PMSR-A3 ATX12V V2.3 460W Power Supply - Retail $39.99

Intel Dual-Core E2140 Allendale 1.6GHz LGA 775 Dual-Core Processor Model BX80557E2140 - Retail $73.99

PNY Optima 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model $79.99

Western Digital Caviar SE WD3200AAJS 320GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM $74.99

SAMSUNG 20X DVD±R DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S203B - OEM $33.99

Microsoft Windows Vista 64-Bit Home Premium for System Builders Single Pack DVD - OEM $111.49


Grand total is $536.31 without shipping. I might change out the PSU to a better model, but for the most part I think this is what I'm gonna buy.

As for my choice of CPU, the reason I went with that one is it's A. Cheap and I have a 6-700 dollar budget and I might have to buy a few other things and B. It OCs like a son of a Starscream and is almost as fast a full Core 2 Duo(And in some applications faster depending on if the application needs L2 cache more than outright clock speed) all for 74 bucks. That's a pretty Powerglideing good deal if you ask me. The S-Video cable is for connecting it to my TV for my mom, who has a pain disorder and can't spend much time in our Blotty office chair. I also have a case at home, so I'm not gonna worry about buying one.

I won't be buying the parts for a while, so the specs are still up the air a bit.

We'll see what the prices look like when I get to that step.

A little disclaimer, I am not trying to make the bestest system evar right off the bat. It doesn't matter to me much about the differences in cards, or memory for that matter. The fact is I like to build systems that will work together just fine. So what if I could get a couple extra frames with a different card? I used to pwn people at Quake 3 at 12fps. I am not worried about things like that.



As an update, I've settled on Vista Business x32. I am fine with 4GB of RAM. I can always change OSes in the future if I get something that requires more than that. You have to figure I am good at making things run well under-spec. I am certain things won't change so much that I won't be able to figure out how to do that 6 years from now.



OK to say this then. I had bought the newest motherboard that Intel had out at the time (although I bought the wrong model number its the same board) and the fastest retail box P4 cpu. I didn't care about AMD (I still don't) and I already had a P3 1.0GHz in my Windows 98 Server box.



Yea I knew it was a few years. I don't know why Intel changed the package design on Rambus tho. If they didn't it would probably have been cheaper to upgrade.



I was originally going to opt for a lower wattage PSU myself. I did some research, which is tough because Intel's site isn't as forthcoming on specs like it was 7 years ago, and found I needed a higher wattage because of the video card. We also special ordered the one I picked for a customer at work and i decided to look it up. I had been recommended to get a Thermaltake in the past from other people. I've never had a problem with PSUs and I know about the secret lifetime warranty they have anyways. But the thing was that I needed a higher wattage if I wanted to add a second card, and the extra sound card. It was fortunate that I found the 700w was Crossfire certified (or whatever) so it worked out well for me.

I used to be real into PC hardware. Ever since I finished building my current PC, I slowly migrated to software instead so I was pretty clueless on new stuff for sure.



Same with me. This PC isn't my current project, first I got to work on the car. After that its anyone's guess as to what I'll get. I will probably change everything except the sound card, motherboard and RAM. If the higher end quad-cores are cheaper by that time I might pick that up instead. Same with the video card.

I guess a better description about me and computers. I am a hardcore PC guy but I'm not looking for the best memory timing, fps or how many flops I can get. I need the stuff I want to run work. I don't care if other stuff could make them run better, because believe it or not, nothing can stop me from running what I want to run. So I'll respect any feedback I get on my system ideas (also on msfn) but without hard evidence I'm not likely to change my mind. TO say "this is better than that" or "that isn't that great" doesn't do squat for me. Also I guess maybe its also because I've been in sales so you really have to try hard to sell me on an idea!

I'm much the same way, myself. I do want it to run fairly fast, though... hence my choice of CPU. if it wasn't a stellar OCer, i'd probably go for an Athlon 64 X2.

As for the ram issue, 32 bit systems(At least XP and Vista will...) will Starscream when you got 3-4 gigs of RAM and a 256 meg graphics card, and lower the available ram to like 2-3 gigs or give you errors. It's just safer to go 64 bit this time.

I've been reading up on PSUs lately, and found something out: Your average HIGH ASS END system will only draw like 3-400 watts of power. We're talking highest end Core 2 Quad with two 8800 GTXs SLIed type high end... a 700 watt PSU is overkill to the extreme. I'd lower it to 500 and spend the money elsewhere.

Here's an example of what I mean: http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/12379/8

Two frigging SLIed GTXs and only 400 watts of power. Here's the system they used: http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/12379/2

Here's the power draw of two 2600 XTs Crossfired: http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=426&a...pert&pid=21 Sorry, was unable to find a result for Pros crossfired... however, given the XT has higher clocks, it will consume a bit more than a pro. The system they used was rather similar compared to Tech Report's system, so there's not gonna be much variation there.

Also, here's a review of the 3870 and 3850: http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/13603

They're much, much better cards.

After spending nearly a Powerglideing hour(Seriously) looking for Crossfire benches for the 2600 Pro, I couldn't find any that had recent games(I.E. crysis) in them.

I did however gather enough info to tell you this: getting the 2600 Pro for Crysis is not a good idea, even if you lower the settings. It has trouble running, say, stalker at 1024 X 768(13 or so FPS). Crysis puts much more strain on the GPU than stalker does. Plus, considering Crossfire doesn't work on Crysis...

I suggest spending the 160-230 bucks you'll spend on two 2600 Pros instead on something like one of the following:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16814102715

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16814129089

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16814130286

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16814150264 (This one's REALLY good.)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16814161215

Gave you a few selections out of the 100-200 and 200-300(Though never going above 230) price range, with both ATi and nVidia's best cards at that price range.

The best one is the 8800 GT for 209 bucks.

Seeing as you all seem to know what you're talking about hows my planned rig?


Intel core 2 Quad Q6600 (2.4 GHz 8mb cache)
4GB Kingston Ram
500GB hard drive
Nvidia Geforce 8800 GTS (320mb, but I'm thinking of going for the ful 640 mb)
Vista home

I will probably get a higher Radeon than what I listed for sure. Crysis is just the newest example. My real reason for building a new computer was Quake 4 but I've been slow at it. Playing the Crysis demo made me kick into high gear is all.

I also checked power consumtion on the average Crossfire plus what Intel recommended for the stock board with a quad-core. It came out to 500 something. So 700 doesn't worry me because it isn't horribly expensive like it once was.

I won't touch XFX cards with a ten meter stick. I typically don't like products that we sell at work... XFX and eVGA nVidia cards don't interest me in the least. We've had too many problems with them honestly.

I used to be a hardcore 3dfx guy turned nVidia but I'm gonna give ATI a shot. I have been pleased with the Radeon I use now so I guess i'm neutral on the subject. The fact that I had been using a 64MB nVidia 2x AGP card for so long astounded me because I swore it was better. lol

ATi's been having a hardass time lately... the nVidia cards are typically kicking their asses(Except for the 38XX series) except for a little bit here and there. However, all of the currently available cards(Except for ultra low end) can kick Quake 4's ass.

I had a good experience with the XFX card I had. However, I'm going with MSI this time around simply because of cost. I found a frigging 8600 GTS for 110 bucks. That's a huge Powerglideing deal.

What about sound? Specs on the RAM? You're on the right track though. You should also make sure you have a decent cooling system setup. The processor and video card can get overheated (especially the video card). You want to make sure you can keep it cool so it doesn't overheat.

im thinking about making my self a new PC for the first time ive put together i wish list a few times but im going to wait untill the sales after x-mas to see what i can put together.

my system on my desktop right now is teh lame well kinda the GFX card is the Blot for AGP its a 7800GTx but i cant help but fell that the rest of my system is just holding it back and since its AGP it seems pointless just to find a better mobo and stuff since it might not be any better

as for the new set up... so far i know I'm going for the core 2 quad and getting the 8800GT(gts maybe i dunno) plus i seen some Corsair ddr2 memory on sale that looked the part

any ways i was reading this a lot since i've never made a machine from scratch http://planethalflife.gamespy.com/View.php...etail&id=39

Hey, Tri. I was looking around and finally found(by accident, no less) some benches that have a single 3870 and 3850 and Crossfired 2600s. These are XTs, meaning they're faster than the pros, but this should tell you what you want to know: http://www.hothardware.com/articles/ATI_Ra...m_RV670/?page=9

Also, as it turns out, Crossfire does work with Crysis after all... >.<

Ha that's pretty cool IST. Those are hardcore benches tho. I still have never played a game at a resolution higher than 1024x768 if you can believe that. I played the Crysis SP Demo at 800x600 and it looked awesome anyways. I never liked some of the refresh rates of higher rez in games and you can't change those settings once you change the resolution. Although if I rock out a widescreen LCD I may try something higher, who knows.

In other news, I tested out my first attempt at a Vista Business x32 VL vLite on Virtual PC 2k7 this week and it worked out pretty good, even though the ISO almost pulled a full DVD+R on single layer which surprised the hell out of me.

BTW here are my hardware specs on my VPC testing box (aka my work computer)

Server 2003 Standard
80GB HDD SATA
Intel 945GFEKR motherboard
512MB DDR
no add ons except an extra NIC so I can bridge 2 subnets

Only 512 ram and it worked well? Goddamn!

Yeah, they are insane reses for the most part, but look at the 1280X1024 benches. Two Crossfired XTs(Which would cost more than a single 3850) are slower than a single 3850. That says it all.

I do wish more sites would test with 1024X768... I'm pretty much limited to that res as well by my monitor(It can go higher, but not without using only 60 hz... Ew.).

Sound card: Creative 70SB046A00000 7.1 Channels 24-bit 192KHz PCI Interface Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Professional Series - Retail : $85 ($135-$50 rebate)

Motherboard: ASUS M3A32-MVP Deluxe/WiFi AM2+/AM2 AMD 790FX ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail : $260

CPU: AMD Phenom 9600 Agena 2.3GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 2MB L3 Cache Socket AM2+ 95W Quad-Core Processor - Retail : $240

GPU: GECUBE GC-HD3870XTG4-E3R Radeon HD 3870 512MB 256-bit GDDR4 PCI Express 2.0 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail : $250 ($500 for Crossfire)
OR
HIS Hightech H385QX512NP Radeon HD 3850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported IceQ TurboX Video Card - Retail : $230 ($460 for Crossfire) (<- probaly going to get two of these and XFire them)

PPU: BFG Tech BFGRPHYSX128P PhysX Processing Unit 128MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Physics Card - Retail : $100

PSU: (case has one but it's not crossfire compatible); Thermaltake Purepower RX W0144RU ATX12V / EPS12V 600W Power Supply 115/230 V CE, FCC, UL, CUL, TUV, and BSMI certification - Retail : $125
OR
Enlight Sniper 5604724 ATX12V / EPS12V 650W Power Supply 100 - 240 V UL, CE, CCC, TUV,FCC, RoHS - Retail : $100 [<-I like this one moar]

HDD:HITACHI Deskstar 7K1000 HDS721075KLA330 (0A35154) 750GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM : $190
[will add more later]

Case: RAIDMAX AZTEC ATX-619WBP Black SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 500W Power Supply - Retail :$95:00
[looks sweet and it's cheap. comes with lots of fans too.]

Memory:CORSAIR Dominator 4GB(4 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Quad Kit Desktop Memory - Retail : $267 [comes with a tri fan cooling system]

CD:LG Black 16X DVD-ROM 52X CD-ROM IDE DVD-ROM Drive Model GDR-H30NK - OEM : $18

Total: $1815 Ideal setup. [Low GPU, high MoBo]

Optional: Screen (HDMI) BenQ FP222WH Black 22" 5ms DVI Widescreen HDMI LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 700:1 - Retail : $255 ($284-$30 rebate)
Game controler: Saitek PP24 P3200 Rumble Pad - Retail : $25

You're not buying a burner?

and I STRONGLY suggest you do not go with a Phenom, and go Core 2 instead. here's some benchmarks for the Phenom: http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/13741

Note that while is it not a fully complete review, you can find a link to the complete review the site did previously in the article. I linked ot that one due to the fact that they revised the damn thing to fix a bug in it, and that fix caused it to be even slower.

I also suggest that if you're gonna do the 2X video card thing, go for 8800 GTs. They're around the same price as 3870s(With some being priced around 3850s) and they are better. Here's a review of them and a review of the 3870/50: http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/13603 http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/13479

That's not mentioning the fact it also runs WAIK, WSUS and SQL Server 2005, AD, and the fact Vista was running in a VPC2k7 Window.... ^_^

I've got DHCP turned off right now but it could also run Ghost if I wanted...

Wow.... That's left me kinda speechless...

Hey all,

just checked out this thread, and figured I'd throw in my 2 cents.

to whomever was getting the PhysX board and using the Phenom; from what I read, if you go NVidia, they have a similar PhysX processor built into the boards already, I may be mistaken, but that's why I didn't get one. Also, the costs for AMD Dual Cores are in the toilet.. and you can get a high end one for a very good deal if you shop around. If someone can prove me wrong about the PhysX board, please let me know so I can grab one :-D

Another tip about video cards and RAM -
IST - Vista doesn't reduce the RAM for use per se, but on 32x it can only read up to about 3.3 GB. Not that it uses all of that, it just can't see it any higher than this particular number. I'm already a victim of that.
Tri - be wary (and NVidia cards are the only ones that do this), of buying any video card that comes Factory OCed. I have a thread in here somewhere that goes on about my card overheating. I'd put up pics, but I can't pull them off my phone. So just as a tip, make sure if you end up going nvidia to have a quality case cooling system installed. I've almost decided to go back to ATI just because of the problems I've had with this card. I don't think you were going to pick up nVidia cards, but throwing out the tip just in case you did.

I've poured about 1K into the system I've built to this point, and here are the stats.
Asus M2N-E-SLI Mobo
Iceberg 680W Power Supply
AMD Dual Core 4800 (2.4ish GHz each)
4 GB RAM (Dual Channeled)
WD SATA2 160 GB HD
External 160 GB HD (made from my last HD)
BFG Geforce 8600 GT OC 256 MB PCI-E
Creative Extreme Music Internal Sound Card
2x SATA DVD-RWs with Lightscribe
Vista 32x Home Premium

The only thing I plan to do is pick up a new sound card (the onboard sound didn't like my speakers for some reason) and upgrade the video card. I can run every game I own at high on DX9, or mediumish on DX10, but that's just not enough :-P

I wasn't as up on things as I am now.. or I would've waited a couple weeks this summer when I got my card and picked up an 8800 card. They came out about 3 weeks (or went on sale where I got it) after I got my card. The reason I went 32x with Vista was I'd picked up XP 64 on my last rig.. and had major issues with some games installing.. so I decided to be safe this time.

And, just as a curiosity, am I the only person that's had very few problems with Vista? I personally love it.

Ash

As for Vista, no, you're not the only one. The first Service Pack is about to come out though, which will probably fix most complaints about it.

Edit: nVidia doesn't have a PhysX processor built in. Rather, they(And AMD) are trying to get people to use the GPU to accelerate physics.

I would step down to DDR2 ram for now as it performs well and is dirt cheap. I also would probably step up the gpu to maybe an 8800GT. My rig is as follows:

Core 2 duo e6420 @ 3.2GHz
eVGA 680i SLI motherboard
600w psu
2gb DDR 2 OCZ soe 5-5-5-12(going up to 4gb in a few days).
160gb sata hdd (little but I don't use much space except for games)
BFG 8800GTX OC 768mb gpu
22" viewsonic lcd

I learned something new today, which was not covered on the awesome PSU wattage chart I found (I can post it later... its on my work computer) that if you have anything in a PCIE slot the minimum psu you need is 350w. I found this out while searching for drivers for a Quadro FX card I was trying to install, when I found it required a 450w psu, and the other software guy told me about the PCIE requirement.

That's a common misconception. The reason the 500/600/etc PSUs tend to run stuff better is that they are generally built better. A good PSU can run a Blotload of things. Here's a link: http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3075

In particular the last page will tell you what you need to know.

I, myself, have changed my PC specs(AGAIN) and am going for a 500 watt PSU. However, the only reason is because of the fact that it comes with the case, and is a quite good PSU. I was going to use a lower watt version at one point in time, but replaced with a somewhat better PSU. It's still far more than adequate, though.

Edit: Here's a link to a PSU requirement calculator: http://web.aanet.com.au/SnooP/psucalc.php

It's not perfect, but it will give you a good idea as to what you need. the system I'm gonna build will probably max out at 150 watts.

so i gave up on building a PC and i went for a new dell XPS 420 its quad core has 2x320 gig hard drives (so thats 640 total) 3 gig of ddr2 ram and a 8800GT with vista home premium. plus their are a load of other extras that come with it as well i just need to get ahold of a copy of office and some virus protection for it

... Dude, if you can, swap out the Power Supply! Dell PCs have Blot power supplies.

Orly.. i guess i can take the one out of my old pc since its quite new and powerfull at 550 watt

I googled and found out that PC uses a BTX type case. Most likely, you will not be able to just swap in your old PSU. Unfortunately, finding power supplies for that type of case is somewhat hard... >.<

Edit: Turns out I'm wrong about that. >.>

However, if your other PSU is old, it might not have the right connectors. If it doesn't, here's a decent PSU to replace it: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16817151035 (Note, they do not ship to the UK. It's just a link to the PSU itself so you know what to look for.)

its only about 6 months old so it should fit

I remember during my rig research I came across a site that said BTX was dead. But Dell can get away with it. Is BTX a small form-factor?

BTX is dead for direct sales... OEMs can use it as they wish.

It's an odd form factor that was supposed to help with cooling, but wound up backfiring.

I might ask about it tomorrow. I don't ever pay attention to what form factors we use unless they are something dumb that we can't image. There's a couple. Acer makes one that we have to take the unit apart to image. Its ridiculous. We use a couple weird form-factors. AOPen makes some, but the others I don't know what they are. All I know is they have SATA drives and we image them in another machine we got setup for such purposes (aka I commandeered a computer for those purposes). ^_^

Hehe.

The new lineup of Intel's Core 2 Duo's are going to be out in the last two weeks of this month. They're better overclockers and consume less power and Blot. They're also somewhat faster, depending on the type of program you're running. Games will generally see the most benefit, as will any programs that use the new SSE4.1 instructions. I plan on getting an E8200 and OCing it up to 3.4 Ghz or higher.

I don't get the BTX hate their seems to be no difference performance wise, it just seems like BTX is upside down looking i hear its to help it run cooler since all the HDs and graphics cards are lower. ok their are very few cases out their for it but I'm not looking to rip it apart to up grade it and stuff and i like the case as is

Maximum PC reviewed some ASUS board that also fits my needs that they say is the fastest board they ever benched. And it supports Crossfire as well. I might look into that one as well.

Hey, here's that board that caught my eye:

Asus P5E3 Deluxe WiFi-AP@n

I don't care much for the WiFi. The article I read also noted that the X38 chipset is on its way out for the X48.

Here are some reveiws:

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/asus_p5e3_deluxe_wi_fi_ap
http://techgage.com/article/asus_p5e3_deluxe_wifi-ap_n/
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/490

I think the X38 chipset was a stopgap solution to get motherboards that can run PCI Express 2.0 out as fast as possible. Regardless, it's still an awfully high end chipset, and there's little reason to skip over it for the X48 unless the X48 has something on it you have to have.

As for that motherboard itself... I'd go for another using the X38 chipset, if only for one reason: DDR3 RAM has no performance benefits over DDR2 other than higher clockspeeds(Which are useless unless you are OCing to an extreme degree. We're talking nearly 5 Ghz type of extreme here), and it costs a BlotLOAD. here is are some perfect examples:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16820220289

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16820220285

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16820313003

That last one is the cheapest 2 gigs of ram(Either as a set of 1 gig sticks or a single stick of 2 gigs) I could find. You will almost literally piss money away if you go with a motherboard that has DDR3 RAM capability. I know of a single board that can run both DDR2 and 3(Not at the same time), but it's the only one. Here it is: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16813186134

I like the idea that most x38 boards are backwards compatible for the DDR2 type. Expect DDR3 prices to drop significantly once the boards that support them drop in price, and also when consumer and business boards start supporting them.

No, no, no. There are physical differences between DDR2 and 3 at the interface and stuff, and they can't be plugged into the same slot and expect to work. You might fry the DDR3(It runs on much lower voltage). You have yo have RAM slots for each type. That's why I referenced that one motherboard in my last link: It's the only X38 board that can run both.

Sorry for the double post, admin people, but I'm making sure this is seen and stuff.

Tripred, here's an upcoming Asus board: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3150 It apparently has all the bios problems ironed out.

I know the review is old, but anandtech recently reviewed another X48 board that also about to come out. It was posted about... a week ago, I believe.

Its getting annoying for me that every paycheck I have to spend my extra money on something to do with my car. I haven't even bought anything yet, and as such my target system's hardware keeps changing.

Perhaps soon I can get extra money and buy at least a keyboard or something

Yay! I finally bought my first part! It's the keyboard!

Well I'm kinda slow at it so far... I have also managed to find some games that my current system can play so that may have figured into it a little. My friend just bought a new PC with a payment plan, and I was thinking of perhaps financing a system like that, and just buy a gaming pc from one of those ads in PC magazines, and then upgrading that instead. Plus, those stores have some cool looking cases for sure.

Anyways, my keyboard I bought is the Apple Pro USB Keyboard M7803.
eBay Listing #200205743453

Paying $10 + shipping isn't bad. I've already used this keyboard before. I still have it on the floor here, it stopped working after I knocked a beer into it... Anyways, I originally bought it back when it came out, and paid $60 for it. It worked just fine until i got liquid into it. The response of the keys is the best I have ever seen. There is no print-screen, scroll lock or pause key. Instead there is F13-F15, and Windows treats them as those (unusable and un-remappable) function keys. Although you can change the volume with it, I never used it for that. The USB ports on the keyboard only support 1.1 and they are practically worthless as the keyboard doesn't seem to draw enough power to let you use drives or anything in them. They are indeed designed for a mouse to be plugged into it instead. For example, my old iPod shuffle didn't get recognized or even recharge while plugged into the keyboard. It does work wonders for games. The keys rarely get stuck over the 6 or 7 years I had it, even in the end.

Eventually I want to get an Optimus Maximus keyboard but who knows when and if I would be willing to drop that amount of cash on one.

In case anyone missed the Optimus Maximus Keyboard:
http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/

As you can see its pretty expensive, but the best keyboard ever!

Anyways, as I was thinking of just buying a pre-built system, so that I can do a a payment plan, I came up with a list. It would take me forever (considering my spending habits) to peicemeal a computer again... Here are the options...

OPTION 1
Price: $1703
MB: ASUS P5N-SLI
RAM: 2GB Corsair DDR2 @1066
CPU: Intel Q6600 2.4GHz
HDD: 320GB SATA
Video: 2x nVidia GeForce 9600GT 512MB
Sound: X-Fi Xtreme Gamer
PSU: 750w Corsair HX

OPTION 2
Price: $1092
MB: ASUS P5N-E
RAM: 2GB Corsair DDRw @1066
CPU: Intel Q6600 2.4GHz
HDD: 250GB SATA
Video: 2x nVidia GeForce 8500GT 512MB
Sound: X-Fi Xtreme Gamer
PSU: 600w Cooler Master

OPTION 3
Price: $2349
MB: ???
RAM: 2GB Corsair DDRw @800
CPU: Intel Q6600 2.4GHz
HDD: 500GB SATA
Video: 2x nVidia GeForce 8800GT 512MB
Sound: X-Fi XtremeMusic
PSU: ???

OPTION 4
Price: $800
MB: ASUS P5N-E
RAM: 2GB OCZ GX XTC @800
CPU: Intel Q6600 2.4GHz
HDD: 160GB SATA
Video: 2x nVidia GeForce 9600GT 512MB
Sound: X-Fi Xtreme Gamer
PSU: 650w Antec NeoPower

So far options 1 and 2 are good to me, although option 4 is lacking in the RAM department. In fact, option 4's seller doesn't have anything faster than 800MHz... BTW option 3 is from Dell...

ANy thoughts? I had difficulty finding pre-configured systems using a Q6600 and Crossfire. ATI didn't have any recommended builds because AMD only recommended 64x2 CPU boards.

Option 2 is a Powerglideing joke. I have an 8500 GT. Two of those won't mean Blot compared to one of any of the other cards, let alone two of them.

RAM speed really isn't an issue right now. RAM speed has outpaced CPU speed for a while, and will continue to do so for a long time. The only reason to go with faster RAM is for OCing headroom, wanting to tweak the timings, or you're only running one stick of RAM.

You see, motherboards have for the past several years had the ability to take two mostly identical sticks of RAM(They have to be the same speed, size and have the same timings.) and treat them as if they were one stick in terms of bandwidth. By itself, each RAM slot has a 64bit path to the FSB. When you do the two sticks of RAM as one trick, the FSB treats it as one 128bit channel, doubling the bandwidth/effective speed. It's called Dual-Channel, and has been the best way to raise bandwidth for years, and will continue to be the best trick until the time comes that 128 bit paths are finally implemented(There are various problems with it, including higher cost for the motherboard.).

Option two is a Powerglideing joke due to its' PSU as well.

Option 3 isn't a good idea due to not knowing enough about the motherboard and PSU.

Option 1 and 4 are best, but what I would do is try to get a payment plan with newegg.com
e
This way, you can get a system without getting a weird ass PSU or a Blotty case or any of that nonsense, and save a Blotload.

http://www.newegg.com/Info/FAQDetail.aspx?Module=2 More info about their payment plans.

I put together a system with the exact(well, I had to switch it up a little as I found out the sound card you selected wasn't actually an X-Fi but a relabeled Audigy and thus is full of suck and fail, and the RAM/HD wasn't really all that specific.) specs as option one and it costs about 430 less!

What I would do, however, is pick a different motherboard. nVidia has just revealed their new 790i chipset, which looks to be much better. Their previous chipsets had hardware bugs that were pretty common. Any big PC tech forum will have long topics dedicated to them.

Also, that PSU is overkill. At most you'll use 500 watts, and that's only if you OC like crazy, use all four cores, and run crysis at absolute max settings. So far, the only way people have gotten to 700 and higher was by using more than two video cards(Ultra high end ones like the 8800 GTX and the 8800 Ultra) at a time, or using two of those double cards(Radeon 3870 X2, GeForce 9800 GX2). Get this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16817151030 or this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16817139002 instead

600/620 watts for a system that will probably use 350-400 max aught to be good enough.

A non-Creative sound card available for relatively cheap will come out monday. Here's a news link: http://www.techreport.com/discussions.x/14382

Non-Creative is VERY good due to Creative's suckass drivers. You might want to look into that.

You might also want to upgrade to two 8800 GTs or 8800 GTS-512s or two of the almost here 9800 GTXs. I don't recommend doing that, though. I would pick 8800 GTs or 8800GTS-512 due to the 9800 GTX being basically an OCed 8800 GTS-512 with more ram. The 8800 GT and GTS-512 differ in that the GT has a small part of the chip disabled. It doesn't effect performance too much, surprisingly, but there is a definite difference. The GT also comes with 256, 512 or 1 gig of RAM. The GTS-512 is stuck with 512. However, running at the speeds which would make each 8800 GT use 1 gig would probably not be very playable(we're talking 15 FPS or less here.).

Wow, I typed a lot.

Edit: BTW, that took me an hour due to research and Blot. I suck at finding info fast.

I wondered about what dual-channel really was. I think my board actually uses that already because of how picky it was about how you placed the sticks, but I might be wrong.

I did choose Creative only because its the only card I've used. No that's wrong. I've bought 3 Creatives (16, Live and Audigy XGamer) and one Guillemont. The Guillemont was good for the age, as it was new as was 128bit sound. But I don't plan on changing my speaker setup, and I'm running Creative Inspire so I figured a Creative card would be best to use with that. I'm not sure which model it is, I think it was the second Inspire to be released... I remember paying like $300 for it or something but its well worth it.

I got my keyboard in, the Apple Pro m7803 USB extended, which I had used before and it rules. You just gotta get used to where the "Windows" aka Apple keys are. On a Windows keyboard, you're keys go CTRL -> Windows -> ALT, but on the Apple it goes CTRL -> ALT -> Apple. The Apple key acts as the Windows key. All the other keys are fine, including the volume up/down and mute keys. There is no context menu key but its not like I ever used that anyways... I was brought up on SHIFT+F10... There is no Print Screen, Scroll Lock or Pause keys, instead there are F13-15, which act as those keys, but since Windows has no functions for them, they don't do anything. The MAC Power key also does nothing, but I imagine it would put the computer to sleep or hibernate if I made that option available.

The only other small item I need to get is a Microsoft Intellimouse 3.0 to replace my old busted one. I tried rebuying one but it had a bad optic. I only want that mouse because it has the buttons 4 and 5 on the left side, which I am used to. Newer mice are shaped differently and they buttons aren't as easy to hit. I demoed out a bunch at Office Max and Best Buy a few months ago and didn't find any to my liking.

I'll look into that newegg finance deal. It sounds interestings. I also revised my new system goals:

1. Quad core CPU: Intel only, but willing to start with a Q6600 because all boards that support it also support a faster one.
2. 2x 512MB video cards: I originally wanted Crossfire, as you knew, but really don't care. I'm using a Radeon now and it seems fine but prior to that was a Geforce 3 TI-200 and a Geforce 2 MX. I was a die-hard 3dfx guy but its not really an issue since Glide died with them anyways. I've been toying with the idea of testing out this Radeon vs a Voodoo 5500 (which I also own) and see which is better... lol
3. A chassis that doesn't look ridiculous. I am not a fan of roundness
4. To be able to play DX10 games. With the group that was working on DX10XP folding... My only hopes are for Vista. I am still looking to get Vista Business as I have access to the VL at work. I just need a motherboard that works with it. I don't think my company sells any 2x PCI-E boards so it might be tough.

OK that's enough from me!