Hi guys i don't know if there is already a threat about this if there is one sorry (i'm kind of new in the forum). So i was watching the movie and i noted that before sam kills megatron with the allspark some f22's shoot him. Do you think one of those aircrafts is starscream? i want to know your opinion.

Some claim that Starscream "joined the formation" of F-22s, but he slots in behind two while two more, who have just seen him transform, come up behind him. Those latter two were still likely hassling him three seconds later when Megatron starts being attacked from the air. In fact, it's more likely that this is the point at which Megatron begins to be hit by the F-22s because he had just lost his air cover.


Also, I believe the writers themselves said it wasn't supposed to be.

Therefore, in the context of the first movie, I'd say he didn't fire on Megatron - however, it wouldn't surprise me if they incorporated him attacking Megatron in the second film, since the way the first was edited does allow the possibility.

the topic has been brought up before, yes

It's an interesting notion, but highly unlikely IMO.

Hmpf. I do take pride in the fact that I was the first, well, at least on this forum, to come up with this idea (and others). However, that pride has indeed been slightly diminished after finding, quite literally, dozens of similar threads appear with similar notions.

i said sorry if there was a similar or even the same thread before

Nobody's angry at you, dude.

I just think that (as with many sequences in this movie) you have to be paying very close attention to follow what's going on. And I mean freeze-frame close attention.

nah i was just kiddin' i just had that doubt about the movie

of course starscream shot megatron. who out there knows starscream and would say "well he had an open shot at megs but didn't take it cuz some humans were already shooting him"?

i think if the film makers wanted to show starscream shooting Megatron, they would have made a point to make it clear without any questions that starscream shot him. This reminds me of the "Ironhide bashed Barricade into pieces when Blackout transforms and flys away " question when we all know it was just some regular black car that Ironhide threw. people were trying to make more of what it was, its a movie and there were many plot holes, but going back to the original question, I don't think it was starscream. they would have made it clear if he did shoot Megs.

The fact that it's something that has to be asked is all the proof you need that it didn't happen.

But, in case it isn't, here are a few things to consider:

FACT - Starscream destroys most of the other F-22s before Megatron is shot.

If Starscream were planning on firing at Megatron, wouldn't he have wanted the other F-22s to make a stronger attack on Megatron instead of a weaker one? Some people claim the attack on the F-22 squadron was what allowed Starscream to join the squad and lead some of the other jets towards Megs, but we see Starscream on a military base earlier in the film. Odds are good he'd already infiltrated the military and was perfectly concealed and capable of joining the squad and aiming them at Megs without much trouble.

FACT - Megatron was Starscream's greatest chance at victory.

Sure, Starscream took plenty of shots at Megs when there was an army of other 'Cons for him to command, but at the end of the movie, if Megatron had been taken out Starscream's only remaining allies would be Barricade and maybe Scorponok. Those three against Prime and four other Autobots who have already found and are holding the Allspark. What's to be gained from the elimination of Megatron at that point? Nothing.

FACT - There is nothing in the film itself to suggest that Movie Starscream has any eyes on overthrowing Megatron.

Even if the film made it clear that the jet that shot at Megatron was Starscream, the reaction from the General Audience would be one of complete and utter confusion - they'd have no understanding of why one bad guy would shoot at another. While I believe that, in their hearts, the filmmakers see Starscream as the treacherous bot we know him to be, every choice made by the filmmakers was made to introduce Transformers to a new audience, and not rely on any previous knowledge of the franchise to follow the movie. Thusly, we can assume that the filmmakers would've introduced Starscream's treacherous intentions earlier if they'd intended that moment to be an act of treachery in the film.

I see yout points however I must counter on some level.

1) starscream is and has always been a coward. if he fired at megatron he would still fight the jets in order to protect his argument in case megs lived.
2) what victory exactly. megatron wants the allspark. it never says starscream does. he is doing what megatron says. that's all. starscreams victory would be the elimination of megatron.
3)your right nothing suggets that he wants to overthrow megs. but to say that the audience wouldn't get it is a little too generalizing otherwise noone would have thought it. if the idea is to make the movie for a new audience then why make prime a truck, why have megs say "you fail me yet again" why make ironhide gung ho and ratchet an ambulence? why use the witwicky name and why have bb trash the vw beetle?
all I am saying is the starscream I know would take a shot if he had it. and I think the filmakers left it open for us existing fans to whet our appetites with cuz we all luv ss hating megatron. so if in your movie he "lives to serve lord megatron" cool but in mine, he's good ol screamer with a gun at megs back every chance he gets. if he couldve found him in the ice he wouldve shot him then.

I don't see your argument...you're saying you believe Starscream would actively weaken the weapon he's aiming at Megs so that, in case Megs doesn't die, Starscream can say, "Well, I didn't aim the whole thing at you." Please.


You assume Starscream's victory would be the elimination of Megatron, but what then? He's stuck on an alien world outnumbered by the enemies of the team he wants to lead, who have the magical artifact that is the only reason you came to this world to begin with. There'd be no glory for Starscream in leading the Decepticon team under such conditions. He'd get no coronation ceremony, no loyal followers worth anything, and he'd have to be running from the Autobots constantly, so why bother?


None of the stuff you're listing requires bringing over previous information from another incarnation of the franchise. Only Starscream being treacherous requires you to have been audience to another Transformers story to follow along.

Like I said, I think the filmmakers think of Starscream as the treacherous bastard we know and love, I think it's something we'll see in the sequels. But I don't think Starscream tried to betray Megatron in this particular movie, nor did the filmmakers intend it to be taken that way, because it just wasn't the time to strike.

I also said you can think what you want and if it matters you can keep trying to prove me wrong. but I will not agree that ss had no interest in hurting megatron.
starscream would not have been stuck anywhere I mean he left earth at the end of the movie anyway. at what point would he be stuck? the idea that he would stay on earth where the autobots are? he is and always has been a coward. as u say "please".
you assume ss cares about the cube. I don't recall that ever being implied, it was megs' obsession.
my argument is that if megs had lived, ss could say it wasn't him shooting at him at all. but that he was elsewhere fighting the jets and doing all he could to help like a good little minion.
I just think if ss had an open shot at megs he would take it, period. If u don't agree, cool. but like I said whether they intended or not for ss to literally shoot megs, it fits the character I know. so when I watch it that is part of the story. disagree if you like. won't change my mind. and I have no interest in changing yours. I am just making points for my thoughts.
in your world he doesn't take a cheap shot cuz the movie guys didn't make it a point. in my world he took a cheap shot and they did make a point to show jets shooting megs right after they showed ss flying towards the city in jet mode.
so we disagree. I won't lose any sleep over that. can u agree to disagree.

By that logic he could've left at anytime. Why hang around at all? He wants to destroy Megatron to rule the Decepticons, and as ruler of the Decepticons he no doubt wants to gain control of the Allspark.


If he's not interested in the Allspark, why'd he leave Earth after Sam destroyed Megatron? Is it possibly because the Allspark was also destroyed? Otherwise he's got exactly what he would've gotten by destroying Megatron in the scene in question.



He could say that anyway. What, was Megatron gonna call the F-22 pilots to testify against Starscream?


I wasn't addressing you to begin with. You responded to my post and so I defended my position. Stop acting like I'm picking on you.


I don't agree that we live in two different worlds where we watch two different movies, but I'll stop defending my posts as soon as you as you stop trying to refute them. Deal?

The only reason this keeps coming up is because the G1 fanboys desperately want Movie-Screamer to be the backstabbing traitor he was in G1. Unfortunately, Movie-Screamer is fairly loyal to Megatron as is indicated by how he greets Megatron at the Hoover Dam and all the trouble he went through to free him.

uh, actually, I posted here, then puertoricon refuted my post then u quoted him. so I did believe you were both responding to my statement. so I in turn began defending my views. sorry if I was mistaken. I haven't thought for a moment anyone was "picking" on anyone. it is an open discussion forum where ppl disagree regularly. we just are discussing varying views of one scene is the way I approached it from my initial post. I have not refuted anyones posts. I have stated in every response that we simply disagree. I have admitted your points as valid in every post while choosing to disagree based on my own point of view.

on topic: IMO ss stayed cuz megs lived and he had to. then he left cuz megs and all the others died. I don't think it was related to the cube at all.but that's my opinion. u also have yours with valid reasons.

you are right ss could say that anyway. he could say he didn't shoot at megs. megs couldn't ask anyone . you are right. so its a free shot to take with no provable recourse. you just made my point.

look man, every movie,book,song etc. is open to interpretation. 2 ppl can hear the same song and get 2 very different meanings . once again we just disagree. I have said that in every post. we just disagree. its ok.

Let's face it, Starscream was not a major character in this movie. We can talk all we want about how Starscream is this and that, but he simply wasn't fleshed out enough for us to be able to say "he would have done so and so". Not to mention the fact that there is no reference or follow-up in the whole movie to this so-called attack.

It's editing.

that's why I love you pete.

Just answer this question: What would be different about Starscream's situation if he had successfully killed Megs when he supposedly shot him than the situation he was in once Sam killed Megatron? Therein lies every benefit Starscream would've had in shooting Megatron.


Just because he can take the shot doesn't mean he would.


Dude, this isn't a "What parallels do you see in the Wizard of Oz to the industrial revolution?" discussion, this is "Did Dorothy meet a scarecrow?"

let it go man. u can't change my mind. do another line by line analysis if u like but again, can't we just disagree? I think ss shot at megs cuz he could and you think he did not. end of story. u don't need my reasons and I don't care about yours. as aquarion said "g1 fanboy's" that's me all day. btw hornet as a child of the 80's I took ss statement of loyalty as pure sarcasm. as did my 12 year old nephew who never saw a g1 cartoon. funny how ppl see things different aint it? maybe that should be a seperate thread.

Yeah, okay, I'm done.

I just watched the final conflict scene again and I'm gonna say No. Infact, he helped Megs out twice. First by shooting the coptor, leaving the Cube with Sam close to Megs. Second, Being disguised as one of the US jets, I believe he had access to communication between the jet fighters and knew they were coming to attack Megs. So he beat them to the punch. When the scene transitioned from Screamer to Megs, the jets following Screamer had a new threat to deal with and they chased Screamer down. Meanwhile, the other available fighters not occupied with their new course of action shot down Megs. Granted, once Megs was defeated, typical Screamer left him for dead.

To me the only burning questions that remained after watching the movie is, is Scorponok still living and WTF happened to Barricade.

don't be a soup nazi.
can somebody just close this before it gets more personal.

Except that fact isn't something that can come down to opinion. It is a fact that a person can have a blood type of O Positive. It is a fact that Iraq was invaded in 2003 by the United States of America. It is a fact that Starscream wasn't fleshed out enough to be a traitorous bastard or not in the movie. He was just barely there.

Also, why did you complement Pete? he basically shot down your argument...

Such is my power of awesome, it compels people to love me.

P.S. Scorponok: who cares, they come away with a piece of his body, he's dead enough for story purposes

Hah and I tought this thread was death... My opinion after seeing the scene is that starscream escaped after being hit in the air when he was battling with the f222s. But who knows after all is starscream

Sigg'd!

It's also a fact that something can't be a fact if you can dispute it, which proponents of the "Starscream shot Megatron" camp can.

Supplemental material from the prequel comic proves that this Starscream is just as traitorous as any other, but this isn't the kind of Megatron you can openly defy. Movie Megatron wouldn't tell Starscream to shut up, or kick sand in his eye, he'd jam his cannon up Starscream's nose and blow his brains out.

I seriously doubt Bay counts the prequal comics as connected to his work. Unless he says something, they're really more of a very interesting Alt Universe kind of thing, IMO.

But of course, here is where we go into opinion rather than fact.

I complement pete b/c he shot me down respectfully. he can make me say well maybe I am wrong but who cares. the other guy seems to want it to be a real issue of proving me wrong. I still say who cares.

People disupute lots of things that are fact.

Though the shot structure is confusing, having watched the SS vs. Jets fight a few times (it is one of the better scenes in the movie) I think it's actually pretty clear that SS DID NOT SHOOT MEGS.

It IS a confusing shot in context, but if you just play it back in isolation there is nothing to back this theory up. It's just a bad cut.

Indeed. Much of the editing in the movie(AS well as other Bay movies.) sucks ass. Either cut too short or too long...

Pretty damn much. Now if they retrofit it to be true later then, meh. Oh well.

yea we can pick the argument back up then.

i agree in that this was very unlikely. the general public doesnt know about the age-old starscream vs megatron power struggle. and this would throw them off.

there are several things i didnt understand. like when he slid into sam and injured ratchet and ironhide. why didnt he just crush sam and steal the cube?

or when he was watching sam from another building's roof, he blew the chopper up, but not sam. why? he and megs could have ganged up on sam and swiped the cube.

i honestly believe they're saving that subplot for TF:II

please, be an elaborate joke...

Good Powerglideing Night Christmas Jeebus...

Have any of you actually read the stuff posted there? It's like creepy cult stuff....like really creepy conspiracy stuff.

Because he got shot. Starscream is a pussy.

No.

bwahahaha I don't care what anyone who disagrees says, Im going to be stubborn on this, STARSCREAM SHOT AT MEGATRON IMO, AND WAS NOWHERE TO BE SEEN AFTER MEGATRON'S DEATH, Blackout tried to help Megs, but not SS. Most assuredly SS although not shown in the film, DID have his own agenda, and we may see his treachery fleshed out more in TF2

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but the fact is that there isn't any evidence of this at all. Since, you know, Starscream was a "robot in disguise" and just because an F-22 shot at Megatron, that doesn't make it Starscream. If you're going to make an actual case for it, it needs to be based on more than what you want to believe. If in fact that is your goal, which it may not be.

Blackout did the same thing. Ironhide deflects the BO's missle and then Sam runs toward BO and he just transforms and flys off.

I apply both Blackout and Starscream's "RUN AWAY!" tactics due to Ironhide's sheer awesomeness...
Ironhide shot SS, SS ran away. Ironhide deflected Blackout's attack and Blackout was like "ZOMFG! This guy's gonna do a ninja roll along the ground and flip a missile up my ass!" Ironhide was just that damned cool...pure and simple.

fan-boyyy

IMO it was just a nice bit of realism -- people in battle aren't just going to stand there and get shot at, they're going to act defensively as well as offensively.

Ironhide was cool though.

You do know I was joking...right...



*is still a fanboy*

suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure you were

Yes. Yes SS shot Megatron and the kibble that fell off is going to grow into a new Jazz for TF 2.

i cant believe i'm saying this, but....

..I AGREE WITH PETE!

Oh, way to go. Now the universe is going to implode.