I was wondering if anyone else had been experiencing this...

I've been a big defender of the movie and just about everything to do with it ever since I first saw the first robot designs. And I totally loved the movie when I saw it on July 2nd. But the more I think about it, especially in light of what "Transformers" has meant to me over the years, the emptier the movie seems.

I would liken it to... the robot designs, actually. You look at one of them from a distance and your immediate impression is "whoa, that's awesome" (unless you thought they sucked). But the closer you get, the more you see holes and empty spaces, until you're left wondering how it all connects together, and even if it does at all, or if it's just smoke and mirrors. They spent all this time and effort trying to create realistic robots-that-transform-from-Earth-vehicles, but the final result is just a bunch of parts.

And that's how I feel about the movie now. It has some great parts. But it's held together by virtually nothing at all. And I'm not sure what the point of the whole thing was, to be honest. There's a lot of the movie that I could never see again, and I wouldn't miss it. Which is an odd feeling, because typically my favorite movies are ones that I could watch just about any scene from and think to myself "man, this movie freaking rules."

I could just be burned out on it. It's been such an all-consuming thing for Transformers fans for so long. But I also think the shine is starting to wear off the movie, and I'm seeing it less as a Transformers fan and more as just a regular guy. I love the CGI stuff, but at the end of the day it's just effects. And I'm finding myself more nostalgic for the simplicity of the original "Transformers" than I have been in a long time.

So anyway, that's all. I was just wondering if I was alone in this.

I can't agree or disagree about it being more "skippable". Half the time I put on the 80s movie, it's just background noise.

So really, what you're saying is that TF:A is right up your alley and you're completely ready for it?

I personally, after watching the movie 3 times, still like it. But I think that because I approached it for what it was going to be and still do....eye candy. I just wanted to see some robots smash and crash, transform and blow Blot up. I just wanted to be entertained not enthralled and challenged. Lets face it, the latter is probably not going to happen to this franchise ever. I took this stance from the point when I first read who was doing the script and found out that they did a round table on it. When they do a round table you know something's wrong. In all fairness the story wasn't horrible and I was expecting worse but it wasn't great either. Mediocre at best.

The good news is that the second should prove to be more entertaining. They've chosen a direction, got the intricacies out of the way and paved the beginning. IMO the first and thrid movies in most series are the lamest....Star Wars being the exception.

You have got to be sh*tting me.

Hi. My name is P-C, and I've felt like this since just before the credits rolled.


All kidding aside Pete has made some astute observations here, IMO.

I think Pete's just been burned out on movie discussion - It sucked/It ruled, Starscream fired on Megs/No he didn't, Soundwave should be a sucky tapeplayer in part 2/No he shouldn't, Leader Prime is better/Voayger Prime is better, etc.

I've been like that too. I really hate to admit that a movie I like really isn't that good, but I end up doing it anyway. I saw the movie twice but now I'm not so sure if I want to buy it on DVD. It just doesn't seem good enough for me to view it over and over again.

Sounds more like what you're saying is that you don't like the movie, not that you like it even though it isn't that good. Am I right?

No.

It's ok to like movies that aren't good. I have the Masters of the universe movie, It's aweful, but skipping to the Skeletor scenes is well worth it. I'm gonna buy the movie on DVD. I'll watch the good parts of it many times, but I'll never watch the whole thing for my own enjoyment. It's just not a very good movie. It has great effects, but not much else.

This is the inevitable effect the hype dying down.

If you don't want to watch it over and over again, how does that qualify as liking it?



I view the Transformers movie very much in this light, except that I am totally willing to watch MOTU all the way through for my own enjoyment, and I enjoyed Transformers even more.

But then I watch Rushmore to feel better about myself.

The movie's special effects are good, but I think seeing it twice is enough. I'm certainly in no hurry to buy the DVD. I like the action parts of the movie and special effects are fantastic, but there is too much crap in between that I have to tolerate. In a way, it makes the movie tragic; so close yet so far away from being truly good.

I like Rushmore.

*goes back to watching the Mario Bros. movie.*



Where were you when the whole board was stealing my Fries at lunch?

If that's how you feel about the stuff you like...

I know your trying to trap me so that you can then Starscream about how dumb people who don't like the movie are. It's complicated, okay. I certainly don't hate the Transformers movie, so what is the opposite of hate?

No trap, dude. I just think you should be honest with yourself.

I only Starscream about dumb people when they say dumb stuff like, "I don't like the movie because it isn't a 20 year old cartoon".

"I didn't like the movie because it just didn't entertain me" is totally cool with me.

In my long career of movie Starscreaming Hobbes has never been anything but an honest discussion companion, even when we disagree. Though I am expecting a herd of "I hate G1 Fanboyz!" posts any time now...

I think what MP is trying to get at (MP forgive me if I'm wrong too) is that the movie was OK and he liked it as an OK movie and nothing more, and that if it had been a GOOD movie that he had liked he'd be willing to purchase it. But even though he liked it, it was just OK.

Well, I guess it's worth noting why I really like the movie, despite its flaws:

1) Story Quality - This certainly isn't my favorite movie...it might not even be my favorite movie of the year. But, in the long, long history of Transformers entertainment, this falls somewhere in the top 10% of storytelling, easily. It is more, or as, coherent as all of the 80s content: comics, cartoons (including the '86 movie), but not as well told as Beast Wars. And it's certainly better than any of the (admittedly few) comics I've picked up from Dreamwave or IDW. So, as a Transformer fan, it was great.

I know a lot of people, myself included, were hoping for something that elevated Transformers storytelling to another level, rather than just fitting in with everything else...but I find it hard to fault the movie for only being as good or better than all the fiction I already really enjoy, instead of being simply the best.

2) The Allspark - This originless origin of the Transformers is by far my favorite explanation of the Transformers, and the notion of the "newborn" Cybertronians is bursting with expandable potential in, not just sequels, but lots of other Transformers media in the same way that Beast Wars seeded the entire franchise with protoforms, sparks, and stasis lock.

3) They're So Real! - People say, "yeah, the effects were great" as if we're talking about Terminator 3 or something. The effects were more than great. It wasn't just the photorealism of the Transformers, but the way they moved and transformed (including the resulting full of holes new look) and interacted - these bots were there, standing in front of me. And for a fan of the franchise since inception, I felt like I was finally seeing what I'd waited a lifetime for...

4) The Decepticons Were Scary - Finally these machines of war are depicted as actually dangerous. No shrill-voiced, comically incompetent Air Commanders. No rubber-ducky-playing-with commanders putting hand to forehead and bemoaning how he's surrounded by idiots. These Decepticons are evil, effective, and strong.

Sure, Glen could be completely removed from the script. Sure, the robot screentime was smaller than I would've liked...but honestly 2 hrs. of bots would've been too little for me. Sure, the cut between Starscream's dogfight and the attack on Megatron has caused fanboys to assume too much and see things that aren't there. So what? The movie was still awesome.

I am Lazy and have just quoted myself from an earlier post.

"I would have liked more TF characterization/dialogue. But I didn’t expect any more TF screen time than we got. I think what I would expect in a transformers movie would be about at 2/1 ratio of human/TF time in the Humans favor. This could have been achieved by eliminating the hackers, DOD, and character soldier scenes. (Not all army mind you just the ones with names). The TFs don't NEED more screen time the movie needed to be more balanced.The human stuff could, (should) have just been Sam & Co. and Sector 7. There was no reason for this story with that amount of TFs to be 2hr 15min when 90 min would have done. Shia Lebouf was great. I take no qualm with his scenes or screen time. But why so long with out TFs? Useless subplots.All those subplots did is solve problems they created. IE: If you remove the Character soldiers (whose names I can't even remember) you eliminate the discovery of ammo that really hurts TFs. If you eliminate the ability to really hurt TFs you remove the need incapacitate the military cuz now they can hurt TFs you remove the need for the virus. Remove the virus you remove the hackers, (whose names I can't even remember) and the needing to use a 386 to send Morris code.Sector seven showed up and took everyone to the allspark anyway, and the military would have shown up anyway at the end. I would expect jets to show up if Giant F-ing robots start tearing up a city, I don't need to see how they made the phone call to NORAD. Sure there would be Army vs. Decepticon scenes but those could just be to show case and Primus for bid develop the characters of Decepticons not what they're stepping on.While I was not 100% happy with several aspects of the TFs they are not what turn me off this movie. I think they same movie at 100 min would have had me."

I was also disappointed by the confusing shot structure and editing.

The following link also explored the quality of the movie.
http://www.TFans.com/talk/index.php?showtopic=73495&hl=

I don't disagree with any of that, but we've been through all that already. The film is flawed. The removal of the subplots as you've described, P-C, would produce an altogether more enjoyable film. That doesn't mean the film as is isn't awesome in its own way, either.

I just felt this thread could use a shot of positivity.

I just don't get "the robots are a bunch of spaces and don't work" as they paid ILM and designers a whole lot of f*cking money to not only make them look good, but be believable. If you've looked at high-res pics from the designer or in the DK Movie Guide, you'll see everything goes somewhere on all of the bots. I just won't buy that for a minute. Sorry the robots have spaces here and there, but they don't have to have human muscles and skin.

The chase is better then the catch.

*Only seen it once.*

And thank you for providing it.
I agree with your earlier post, highlighting the film's strengths.
Yes the movie had it's flaws, but overall I enjoyed the film, and the special effects were more then just good. It actually looked like there were giant, transforming robots interacting with humans. For me, especially the "Autobots arrive scene", it was like watching my childhood heroes (and later the villains that made them great) come to life.
Combined with, IMO, was excellent story telling by Transformers standards, and we got a fantastic film.

A word on the story telling.
Yes, IMO, by TF standards it was excellent, I might even go so far as to say it surpassed Beast Wars in that area.
Beast Wars was a watershed series for Transformers. Essentially it set the stage for the war-torn universe we see in both the DW and IDW comics. BW gave us as close to a view of realistic war as TF (and most cartoon franchises) had come, and the character development was fantastic. Yet through all of that, when I watch the reruns today, I still feel like I'm watching something made for kids. It's like they wanted to make something that appealed to the older crowd, but remembered they had to appeal to kids, and compromised the material and, IMO, it showed.

The TF film, however, overcame this. My sister it best after we saw it on opening night.
She said she was amazed because she thought the movie would be a kids flick like TMNT, but what we got was a kids franchise reworked into a wicked action/war flick. That rings true.
I watch this movie, and I don't feel like I'm watching something that was made to appeal to the 5-10 age bracket. They took a kids cartoon and made it a film that teenagers and adults can get into and enjoy. For that, I feel the movie deserves a lot of praise.

Yes, I agree, there were problems. IMO if the hacker scenes had been cut in favour of Decepticon character development the film would be perfect. I didn't mind the DoD, or the soldiers. They were fine. The hackers seemed unnecessary though. Still, they had their moments (mostly comical), and overall I was very happy with the movie.
I got to see a film with great storytelling (considering the source material) that focused on life-like renderings of my childhood heroes.
I finally got to see Optimus Prime and Megatron fight in live action. Enough said.

I agree in two ways:

Too many subplots, I didn't see a need for the Army, or Hackers. It took too much time and story development that could have been used else where.

The robots were great. I think it is a great way for Hasbro to improve on the transformers line. I don't think it is really practical to stick with the old style toys/transformation/style whatever because it is so dated.

In general the movie was entertaining, and look at the new oppurtunities for Hasbro, a great way to infuse life into an aging toy/chararcter line.

And that's the problem. The Transformers movie is flawed, but I don't want it to be flawed, but still have to concede that it is flawed.

Well, the question you have to ask yourself: Is it so flawed that you can't handle it and don't like the film, ala PC, or can you love it enough despite its flaws to find yourself entertained and enjoying the time you spend watching the movie, ala Hobbes? There's nothing wrong with admitting you just don't like the movie now that you've seen it.

I readily admit to not liking a ton of Transformers media - A/E/C Cartoons, I'm looking at you.

That in itself is flawed logic. No movie is perfect. Evey film is flawed. If you don't like Transformers simply because it's a flawed film, that that means you must not like every single movie ever made.

-With the movies we like we can handle the flaws because overall the movie was good.
-With the movies we don't like we can't handle the flaws because we feel they consume the movie.

Every single movie we see falls into one of the above categories, though with varying degrees. If you're only willing to like a movie that's flawless, then you're going to be disappointed for a long, long, time.

No it's not. There are flaws that one can look past, falws that one can deny, and flaws that, in then end, have to be acknowledged no matter what.

Pardon? All I was saying is that every movie has its flaws, no film is flawless. If you like a movie it means you were able to enjoy the film overall despite the flaws. If the flaws are to much then you don't like the movie.
So in regards to Transformers, you either thought the movie was good enough to overcome its flaws, or you thought the flaws were so numerous they ruined the film. One or the other.
Sounds to me, IMO, that you feel the film's flaws were to much. If that's the case, cool. I'm not here to tell anyone what to like, I just feel it would be helpful to the discussion if everyone was honest.

What's funny is that this was my initial reaction to the movie.

It was a lot of great Spielbergian moments and awesome looking action, held together by nonsense plot points, and many needless characters.

I said that originally on July 5th and got blasted for being "angsty." And to a large degree it stopped me from supporting that view anymore. After reading through this board a bit, it was obvious no matter how strong your arguments, you were gonna get swallowed by the fan boys, who had apparently just seen the second coming, while I was out at the theater hoping for a bit more.

Then, I went back several weeks later to see it again, now knowing full well what to expect, and enjoyed it much, much more.

Being able to recognize and thusly IGNORE the glaring flaws in the story, script and characters, I appreciated the moments that were good as being great.

I will buy the movie, and watch it a bunch. And just like I did when the Matrix came out on DVD, I'll probably skip to the last 30 minutes everytime.

I think IF YOU REALLY LOVE TRANSFORMERS watching this movie will be more like getting a fix than anything else. I mean, it is the first and only "LIVE ACTION" TFs we've got, and they did look MAGNIFICENT.



PS - I have AWESOME ideas for a sequel. Have they bought a new script yet?

I hope Mike Nelson makes a RiffTrax for the movie, then I'm sure to buy the DVD.

I've learned to never again underestimate the power of Me Really Wanting Something To Be Good... I thought I was immune to that with this movie, but obviously I was wrong. I think I confused the quality of my initial viewing experience (which was truly awesome) with the film itself. I saw it on July 2nd and the theater was packed with people, all of whom clapped and cheered and laughed and went "oooh" in all the right moments. It was like the perfect screening audience. And I had a real blast... which does have value. But again, a big part of it was just going along for the ride with a bunch of people who were also having a great time. It was hard for me to accept people criticizing the movie, because my moviegoing experience had been so amazingly positive.

So basically what I'm trying to say is "sorry for being one of those people"...

I'm definitely going to be getting the movie when it comes out on DVD, although I don't really have a choice either way because my kids are crazy about it. I mean, yeah I really do love the bits with the robots, but I guess I ultimately find it hard to connect with the movie on an emotional level. And that's the difference between a good time at the movies and something that stays with me after the excitement dies down.

Eh

The Movie IS Transformers for me now. I'm sure that won't extend to everybody, and that's okay.

This is the Golden Nugget of truth on this subject. Well said.

No, it's a Golden Nugget of opinion.
If you don't like the movie, that's fine. Like or dislike whatever you want. I don't care. Just don't parade your opinion as truth.

Holy Blot. This is what I was thinking. Am I in the Twilight Zone.

Seriously, I loved the movie. It was a good experience. Watching it over and over or discussing it repeatedly is probably not suggested. Pete was a number 1," Movie designs and realisticness Rule All. Screw G1's cartoonyness" supporter. Just like the first time I saw Bumblebee's lifeless puppet pics on the web I saw that the movie bots were just like the cartoon, impossible. There is no way in hell that the robot designs in the movie could turn into perfect versions of of the vehicles they become. Number 1, their windshields and all glass completely disappear. Then vehicle parts completely shift to areas of the bodies that are totally impossible. Most of Blackout's kibble vanishes, Megs, Prime, Frenzy......I'm not even gonna go there

Yeah, cuz if you watch it enough to see whats going on or Primus forbid THINK about it, you may notice that it's garabage with good effects.

And this thread was so civil...ah, well, it was bound to happen.

I'll give you the glass, but that's about it.

Ok, so I'm sarcastic. Sue me.

But a post trying to defend this lackluster movie saying something akin to "It was good, as long as you don't watch it multiple times or talk about it to much" (ie: put some thought into it) deserves a little

Kill this subforum already.

Bring it up in ATA.

I'm sorry for being a killjoy, but it seems the movie subforum is running out of fuel fast. New toys and movie toy discussion have been posted in the news and toy discussion and what can we say about the movie anymore? I thought this thread would have something fresh, but we're running around in the same circle again. And the 'running in circles'-thing, well, we've got INH for that.

I loved loved loved the movie and I still do. Everything about it. In fact it brought into focus to me what is important as far as transformers goes for me. G1. The only toys in my collection now are g1/g1esque/movie toys, because the movie brought that sense of wonder back that I used to have for transformers.

I think a lot of your problem, LM, is that you got caught up in the fighting and nitpicking around here. I refused to discuss this movie except occasionally and it's for that reason, that only am I NOT tired of it, but I plan to take a day off of work upon release day of the DVD and just enjoy it all over again. Because I haven't been involved in analyzing every single facet of the plot since July 2nd

Darn interwebs and its inability to convey tone... I really did mean "bring it up in ATA" because I agree with you. But only an admin can change the forum structure.

What I Meant was, Duh! If you watch something over and over and discuss it all day, of course you'll be bored or tired of it. I honestly think a lot of movies should only be watched once.

I can see where Pete is coming from on the action tip. Most of the stuff that is rewatchable is the Transformers action and there is hardly any of that in the movie for the first hour. It's all comedy. Once you laugh at something, it's hard to go back and think it's funny twice. Like the Satan's Camaro scene was hilarious but once you see it, meh.

I guess if you can call a movie good when it is only watchable once or twice and the 1st hour is never going to be enjoyable again. Doesn't work for me though.

That is a VERY good point.
It's like why I stopped watching pro wrestling. I found an online forum, and became versed in all the backstage politics, why certain wrestlers won certain matches, why this was done instead of that. It ruined it for me. I used to be able to watch WWE Raw and just enjoy a match, but now I watch it and all I can think about is "who's ass did that guy kiss to win this week?"
It ruined the experience. Of course I knew it was all fake prior to all of this, but I thought that everything that happened was done because the writers were trying to put on the best show possible. Instead, it's nothing but backstage politics.

For some I can see how the same sort of thing could ruin the TF movie. Constantly discussing it, going over every single aspect of the film, that can kill the love one has for the film pretty quickly.
Of course there're plot holes and flaws, it's a movie, every movie has those. Being a science-fiction/fantasy flick means the plot holes are going to be a little more numerous.
Just sit back and enjoy the ride. If you liked it, cool, if not that's also cool. Just don't overanalyze the movie to the point that you don't enjoy it (assuming you initially liked it). Doing that will kill the joy of any movie, be it Transformers or Citizen Kane.

Well... that's not exactly how I feel about it. I really did laugh at a lot of the jokes in the movie, and I think I'll laugh at the fat dude crashing through the sliding glass door and getting tackled in the swimming pool every time.

What can I say, fat dudes falling into pools are funny.

What I'm talking about is more an overarching sense of purpose to the movie, like a reason why it matters. If it had been me directing the movie, I would have nixed or moved the Blackout attack scene and started with Sam at his highschool. Just start it with the kid and his car, and let the movie grow from that point. Which is actually what I was led to believe would happen in the movie, given that that was supposed to be the hook that got Spielberg and Bay interested.

I guess it's a matter of directorial priorities, and I shouldn't really be surprised that Bay decided to open the movie with a huge set piece that looked super cool but didn't pull the audience in emotionally. He made choices like that throughout the movie, favoring the "wow" factor over substance. The fact that there is any substance at all in the movie is largely due to the heroic efforts of Shia LaBeouf (Megan Fox would have died onscreen without him), and Kevin Dunn & Julie White as his ad-libbing and genuinely charming parents.

But that's just how Michael Bay is. He's definitely the perfect director for a big explosion-laden movie about giant alien robots who turn into sexy-looking vehicles. And even though I'd always said "all I want from this movie is giant transforming robots blowing shit up", my mindset changed once I actually saw the movie. Because it was so clear that this was getting major attention from Dreamworks/Paramount, it made me think "isn't it possible to get some of that multi-million-dollar attention diverted toward simply making the movie resonate with the audience?" You don't expect to make emotional connections with B-movies, but with something this high-profile, I think having some expectations in that area isn't unreasonable.

I guess I just never really felt invested in what was going on with Sam or Bumblebee, which is odd because they should have been the emotional center of the movie. And it seemed like Bay knew they should have been as well, but just didn't know how to do it. So the scenes where Bumblebee is captured, where he's being tortured (?) by Sector Seven, where he's got his legs blown off and Sam's like "I'm not leaving you"... they're all played for high emotion, but there isn't any to give. It fell flat to me, and I mean upon the first viewing it fell flat to me. I just didn't really care that much. So I refocused my attention on the very very awesome CG work and had a great time watching a bunch of giant robots beat the shit out of each other. It's just a shame that I couldn't have had both; a more capable director (like, say, Spielberg) would have been able to deliver the action as well as the emotion.