Which one you think is better?

Cybertron Downshift is probably my favorite mold of the whole line. Universe Downshift I passed over many a time at the Kaybee outlet.

The green one, which is that again? Can't keep all these universes straight.

I have both, but the green one has that great 70s muscle car styling. And I love how you can attach his cannons to his shoulders or have him hold them.

the green one is Cyberton

Hey everyone, speaking of Wheeljack the pre-order for the unofficial re-release is up at A3andup.

For Wheeljack-ish accuracy, the Energon Downshift wins.
Cybertron's version has nice qualities about it, but it's not what I'd call Wheeljack. Or WINO. Wheeljack in name only.

Toywise, Downshift is the absolute best. It's a great looking car, a nice transformation, a gimmick that can be completely ignored, a nice robot mode and it very nice poseable. (Only downside is the weapons in alt mode.)


But it's not Wheeljack. The only Wheeljack-ish things on him are his head (but Slicer had an exact similar head and other TF's have come pretty close) and G1 Wheeljack also had some green.

Put G1 Wheeljack together with E & C Downshift, and nobody will recognize C Downshift as Wheeljack. They're just too different.

Unofficial re-release is a very nice way of saying FAKE CRAP.

On topic; Cybertron Downshift is the cooler toy IMO. If you're considering the Energon version, you should take a look at the Takara version. It's actually called Wheeljack and has better colors. (Silver in stead of brown.)

Energon all the way for me. He looks great with Classics. I know I know the whole power/super-lynx thing is rubbish, and it does adversely effect the figure. But generally Energon Downshift is an awesome Wheeljack. Why didn't they just call him Wheeljack? Cybertron doesn't look like Wheeljack at all IMO. On Energon the colours are perfect, the head is brilliant the weapons are spot on and the car mode looks ace. I love my Energon Wheeljack! I love him so much I don't actually have a Classics Wheeljack on my wish list, although I'd get one if they do one, of course!

I prefer the cybertron toy...

I'd prefer the Cyb. version, if they reissued him in Classics 2.0 with the name Wheeljack and the paintscheme from the Alt. Wheeljack. The current Cyb. colors do nothing for me.

Because there was already a (non minicon) Wheeljack in Armada.

I also remember something about that Archer guy saying that there never would be a Wheeljack again, because he hated the name. I could be wrong. Spank me if needed.

yeah but that friggen classic muscle car alt mode is bad ass.

while the cybertron toy is clearly the better engineered the energon toy is the better homage. so at the end of the day i dunno i like em both but nether are perfect

cybertron down shift was good but it didn't really scream wheeljack the way energon did... there was no confusion on who it was supposed to be....

I like both!

e looks like wj but cyb is a better toy. by far. it is also my favorite of the entire line.

In terms of homage, Energon wins, hands down. It's a pretty cool figure to boot - cool, versatile weapons (in that they could be hand-held, on the spoiler or on his shoulders) and a solid alt. mode. Cybertron is a better figure in terms of articulation, the muscle car alternate mode was a very nice change from everything being "futuristic" in some way (e.g. Override), and the weapons were just as cool. Cyb.'s articulation though is what made it better to me.

at Botcon 04, he said Wheeljack sounded like a decepticon name, which is why he made Armada Wheeljack a decepticon.

The funny thing is Wheeljack's cartoon voice fits a 70s muscle car - a guy with a voice like that wouldn't be caught dead driving a "fruity Eurotrash" car.

My vote goes to Superlink Wheeljack!

Anyone have an extra they would like to sell?

I'll make it worth your while!

I have both of them and prefer Energon Downshift over the 2. Looks just like G1 Wheeljack.

Both are great though, so I say buy 'em both!

Oh that's right! Armada "Wheeljack" looked nothing like G1 Wheeljack though.

Interesting idea 'bout repainting Cyb with Alt, or even G1, colours, that might look really good!

I love how I keep posting these kitbashed Cybertron Downshift pics of mine.

That's pretty awesome. Looks very neat!

Aw man, that's just gorgeous. Nice nice work!

i always thought it'd make a fair General Lee

Hey, no fair showing how Cybertron Downshift could be made to look more like ALT Wheeljack without showing a kitbashed Energon Downshift looking more like G1 Wheeljack.

Sweetness! Great work!
Somewhat unrelated though, I have a Alt-Wheeljack-themed Energon Downshift as well.

That was my next question, thanks.

It's still awesome. Did you also make Alt. Wheeljack like Cyb. Downshift of would that make the universe explode?

Nah, I didn't do that. I don't like the green anyways.
There's another TFan here that did, though. I don't remember who, but someone did that (repainted Alt Wheeljack to look like Cybertron Downshift)...

Cybertron Downshift is just a top notch toy. My only complaint about him is that he's just a little stocky.THATS! just too cool!

This makes me want to repaint my energon one.

Energon seems like the better Wheeljack homage, but Cybertron seems like the better toy. I passed on Energon/Universe many times without hesitation, but I almost broke down and bought Cybertron several times.

Although, the repaints of Energon look much better. The olive parts do nothing for me.

If I recall right, it was that it sounded like it be easily related to "Carjacking" so it could be construed as a badguy name. Kind of like how "Sideswipe" isn't exactly the most heroic thing a car can do.

while it fails in the color arena, the Cyb Downshift is the stronger alt/bot combo IMHO. I wanted to get the versions from the previous series, but I could never bring myself to do it. Oddly, the colors of the Older versions put me off more than Cyb.

But then I have a penchant for classic automobilia.

I'm digging the alt. wheeljack paint job on the E and C Downshift. any other bash of C Downshift looking like G1 Wheeljack?

Bloody EXCELLANT kitbashes everyone! Marvellous! Wish I could kitbash...


I don't think they should switch names between Autobot and Decepticon. Laserbeak had it, Wheeljack... Characters are too well know as belonging to one particular alliegence for that. But I realise kids may not have any idea who the original characters are. Just seems bad form to me.

What's in a name. In my opinion, the name isn't always indicative of the character's allegiance. Sometimes, it's a skill, or their function. Or in a few cases, just for the sake of having the character have a name.

Well, as long as Classics 2.0 is on it's way, there's the potential for a Wheeljack. The name may sound Decepticon-ish, but considering what the line is about, not doing him would be stupid, especially for all the Wheeljack fans out there...like myself.

Archer needs to pull his head out of his @$$ if he's refusing to make a Wheeljack character due to him liking the name. He thinks it sounds like a 'Con's name, so we, the customers, have go along with it? What Mr. Archer needs to realize is that Transformers' existence as a toy line predates his involvement in the franchise. Most of the characters who's figures he works on have been established in one way or an other prior to him coming on board. Wheeljack is an Autobot.
So what if Archer doesn't like the name, the integrity and history of the character were established before he was involved with the TF line, therefore he shouldn't be allowed to change it. His job first and foremost is to design figures based around the various fictions that Hasbro is currently working on. Essentially he makes the toys of the characters the fiction presents, he doesn't rewrite the fiction (and change long-standing character histories) to suite his personal tastes.

*end of rant

He never said he hated the name, IceCap. He said it sounded like a bad guy name. When the Wheeljack toy came back to them with that Sideswipe homage head and all that, they were quite surprised. And hey, he (meaning Hasbro as a whole) made TWO (or THREE) Wheeljacks for ya, but I guess two of those "don't count" because the name on the package is not what you want.

I own both. They've got their Strengths and Weaknesses. I'm going to sell my Cyb Downshift somewhere along the line. Personally, I don't prefer either one of these. Energon one has the greatest Powerlinx mode-looking TF (This guy goes good with anything. All the others look...well...kama sutra) And the Cyb one has Knee joints. He's also got the nifty claw feature and looks very cool with a black light (yes! it gloweth). Also his head's pretty cool. I really just like the both just the same.

But E. Downshift is closer to WheelJack.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. It's not just about toys, it's the fiction as well. By the time Archer came along many TF characters had established fictions. This wasn't G1 where the toys dictated the fiction, it was the other way around. Because of G1, and the various adaptations that followed it, many of the characters had established fictions by the time Archer showed up. At that point in the game it was the fiction dictating the toys. Sure, the toy designers were/are free to reinterpret the designs of the toys any way they saw fit, but certain parts of the fiction had already previously been established.
Basically the writers of the show should have said "yeah, we're bringing the G1 character Wheeljack into Energon (and latter Cybertron), we need you to make a toy that's an upgrade of the original figure."
Archer should have said "no problem, I'll start on that right away."
Instead he said "no, I don't like that name for an Autobot, screw established fiction, you're naming the character 'Downshift.' "
Archer should have been told to shut up and design the toy based on what the writers and animators wanted, but instead Archer bullied his way into changing a character's established fiction to fit his own personal taste. That's not right.
Lets say I'm in Archer's position in the future. There's a new TF series starting up.
They say "hey Mike, we need a new Bumblebee toy design."
If what Archer did with Wheeljack is ok, then I should be able to say "no, bees sting people, they hurt. I'm going to design a Decepticon and name him Bumblebee. That small, yellow and black Autobot that turns into a sporty coupe? I'm calling him ZoomZoom."
You don't see Matel going "well clowns are funny and kids love them, lets make the Joker a good guy. Get the director to the new Batman movie on the line, he has to have the script rewritten."

I liked both for different reasons. As far as Energon goes though, I prefer the Superlink version (silver/gray plastic, no olive colored limbs) for G1 Wheeljack accuracy, and Cyb. Downshift for pure muscle car sweetness.

Right now, you're the one saying screw established fiction.

They had the name Wheeljack. They used it in Armada for a bad guy.

Now Energon comes along with an homage character. And you want him named Wheeljack.
DESPITE the fact that Energon, being a sequel to Armada, already HAS a Wheeljack in it.

Forget established G1 fiction which has no bearing on the new stuff. You're trying to ignore established fiction for that show. Then you'd get "wait, Why is Wheeljack back...and a good guy? And why doesn't he even look like he used to?"

My point was that Wheeljack never should have been made a 'Con to begin with. A-E-C Optimus Prime has nothing to do with G1 Optimus Prime, but he's always the same basic character, shaped by the uniqueness of whatever series he's in. That basic premise should be used whenever a TF series decides to bring a character back from a previous series.
If Armada had to have a Wheeljack they should have gone "well we know he was in G1...ok, he was an Autobot who transformed into a white sports car with green and red decals, who was also a scientist. Lets write a character for that who fits this new universe we're creating."
They did the same for Laserbeak, only reverse. Laserbeak is a Decepticon bird who spies on the good guys. They should have used that as a starting point and gone from there. For whatever reason they made him an Autobot though.

Of course you forget that Armada Wheeljack was a former Autobot. Also that at the beginning of Energon some of the former Decepticons were working with the Autobots since they lost their leader.

And as for the "doesn't even look like he used to". That can be said for Starscream, Jetfire, Megatron and Demolisher (dump truck), all of which were dramatically different looking from thier Armada countrparts.

Criminy. Were people like this when they reused the names Bonecrusher, Scourge, and Inferno during the Beast Wars?

Given that BW was more or less a direct sequel to G1, I don't think so.