So we've now had G1 redux from AEC and Classics, plus RID and the movie. Is it time for a new Beast Wars, a re-imaging of the idea of robots transforming (almost) exclusively into animals of various kinds, or was the original Beast Wars something genuinely so unique and special it needs to stay that way?

If there was a new BW, what would you want it to be? A sequel, a continuation, a re-imagining, an original concept, or the G1 Beast Wars ;-)?

I personally would like to see Beasts make a comeback, but I'm not sure how to make it as cool as the first Beast Wars was.

Beast Wars *was* G1 redux, just with animals instead of vehicles...

Yeah, until Bob Skir had to f*ck the fandom.[/sarcasm]

There are new Beast Wars comics by IDW which link into the BW cartoon.

Beasts should be only a PORTION of any future TF line. I don't see an entire Beast Line as being anything I'd pay for, as I can't stand how 90% of them are "Stand up on hind legs, stick tail in front paw as sword, and fold the head back / forward". >.<

As much as I love Beast Wars, I don't think it works as well reimagined or rebooted as G1 does. I can't think of a better reason for everyone to turn into beasts beyond the primitive-planet-covered-in-unstable-Energon, which you can only really use the one time.

G1 was surprisingly full of beastformers with its Dinobots, Predacons, Cassette tapes, Pretender Beasts, etc...and RID and Cybertron returned to the concept of beasts alongside vehicles, so I think Animated has the right idea in including Blackarachnia as a character. The Beast Wars characters redone should be showing up in the mainline alongside the G1 characters redone. It's the only feasible way to revisit them outside the original Beast Wars continuity.

*Imagines an Animated Season 2 Huffer and Rattrap squeaky voiced pessimist-off and smiles*

Yeh, but that's only been the case, really, since the Beast Wars ended. It's the fact that beasts are a portion of any series, rather than the main focus, which leads to laziness on the part of designers.

if they do, i would only want the cgi of the show improved and the toys to be better.

BW was fine as it was and to try and improve it would be blasphemy imo so with any luck they'll do some more reissues or a bw mp in the future

Had Universe been better done, it would have been the proper sequel to Beast Wars/Beast Machines. Unfortunately, we never got a show out of it, and the comic is not well known.

Transtech.

QFTMFT

I think if anything, beasts should be incorporated like they were in the last few lines, but not as a series. Having BA in Animated is nice.

But I think Hobbes-timus put it best:


I'd personally love to see Classics Style Predacons and more Classics Grimlock style Dinobots.

How about a show with Beast Wars quality?

meh guess your right

You actually like something?



























But that would be nice.

It's funny how a show that was "pretty good" is held up as the model for all future Transformers shows.

I'll one-up that - how about a Transformers show that's really good? Or am I aiming too high?

Or am I talking to the wrong crowd?

eh

I believe Animated will be that show.

I think it would be a mistake to limit the "scope" of a series to just one thing (be it "just" animals, or "just" cars, etc.), the thing that made Beast Wars so good was the writing. I don't think we could ever get that lucky twice.

And yes, what Hobbes-timus Prime said!

As do I. BW/BM and Animated have something over a lot of the other TF series. They're all done domestically (I know BW was animated in Canada, but still, you get my point). All the other ones have been Japanese toons dubbed (not all of them bad, but a majority still leave a lot to be desired).

I may not end up having a problem with one such show.

But I guess my wallet could use a break from buying new TF merch

That's funny. I'd consider Beast Wars to be "excellent," not just "pretty good." It had great writing, strong character development, and awesome 3D animation. Beast Machines was also excellent, but in a different way, so I still consider Beast Wars to be the better series.

In fact, I rank Beast Wars to be the best animated series I've ever seen. Not all Transformers series, unfortunately, rank nearly as high in my mind.

i dont know about a new BW but i do know what Id like to see.

When is someone going to make a Transformers that has more of a "Adult" appeal? Dont get me wrong I love G1, BW and even find myself watching the Japanese versions. But at the same time the comic lines have done a great job at bringing the feel of a war torn world to life.

Please no more human children running around and "saving the Transformers" from ultimate annialation. Please this is supposed to be a world that has been at war for 9 million + years and they need the help of kids to save them!!! While the kiddie series have their place I want more!

Did you sleep during RiD?

I agree 100%.

Animated looks unlikly to surpass BW in quality. I have high hopes for it to be better than anything we've had to endure since RiD, but that's not saying much. I expect it to be better than diarhiea coverd cornflakes too.

i don't think we will ever get a show based just around animals again and it only really happened the last time as a way to try and save the brand (that was at the time in the Blotter)

Cybertron had some very cool beast-bots. At least the toys are awesome... I never saw the show, so I can't say anything about their characters. But I could do with some more beasty-toys. I mean, who doesn't love Flame Convoy?

Like I said... "Beast Wars is the best animated series I've ever seen." Really? Better than everything else ever? Funny, I always thought the first season of BW had laugh-out-loud animation, typical boys' cartoon bravado-laden pulp fiction-level writing, and character types more than actual characters. It matured somewhat in the second and third seasons, but when you look at the series overall... well that's why I say it was "pretty good". Which BTW would be generous coming from anyone who wasn't a Transformers fan.

FYI I would say the same about Beast Machines, which -- if you've been here for any time at all -- you will know is my favorite TF show ever that I gush over regularly. It's just silly to me the way this show is deified so much.


BTW I don't think that "Animated" is going to be THAT fantastic either. I'm sure it'll be good, but let's not get crazy about it or anything. But as with Beast Wars, Animated benefits from *not* being what came before it, which I'm sure will influence the fandom's opinion of it.

Almost EVERY show suffers from a lackluster 1st season. I love beast machines but its 1st season had nothing but improved animation. and it was all blue.

Besides maybe Clone Wars I can't think of a better written more enjoyable action animation. No offence to Clone Wars but it (unfortunatly) was not called upon to do an ongoing show so its hard to compare it to a full series. It's practically a highlights clip. (I'm looking forward to seeing if CW's new incarnaton stands up with the 2D version)

I mean so Beast Wars season 1 was a little episodic... It still had some great episodes and the 1st functioning continuity we ever had. They really trimmed the fat for season 2 and climaxed by making a ongoing plot that collectors and kids could both love. It had love interests and betryals. Solid maintained character development. Great Dialog, by far the best TF dialog outside a comic, and I can't think of an action toon that has ever toped it in dialog, for that matter. Ravage? Anybody seen a better episode than "Code of the Hero" recently?

I missed the whole Beast Wars era (too busy chasing girls, actually too busy with girls telling me to sod off and leave them alone, but anyway... ). When I first started collecting again, I just though BW as a bit crapy. Vehicles not Beasts! But now I've reasurched it, and seen a couple of episodes and got a couple of toys I'm starting to get into it. A whole new era to enjoy! However I don't think we'll get another Beast War, and I think children these days want car/jets/space ships, not beasts so much as the Jurassic Park 90s. But I'd love to see some BW characters make a come back, and see some updated figs in Classics2/Universe, although the few BW figs I've got stand up very well indeed to more recent figs. I think a new mini-Beast War in the Universe line is the place to go. I'd love to see an updated Magnaboss and Tripredacus.

I think "Code of Hero" was probably the defining moment of the series. It's not my personal favorite episode b/c I preferred Dinobot when he wasn't so emo, but certainly his death became the emotional center of the show after that point. And it was an episode that didn't rely upon knowledge of G1 for its impact.

My choice for best animated series would be Avatar. I'm watching it with my wife right now, and she loves it. I don't think I would get the same reaction with any Transformers show. The problem inherent to the Transformers franchise is that no matter how good the show in question may be, its ultimate purpose is *always* to sell toys. And that comes across in the show, no matter how cleverly the writers try to hide it.

OK, so perhaps Beast Wars (or Beast Machines, my personal fav.) are not the absolute best animated entertainment EVER. You base this on the fact that they were created to sell a toyline, and so are not a "pure" form of animated entertainment. I can understand that argument, but most televised series promote toy sales, and there are Avatar toys. Now, I can name several animated MOVIES that are indeed better "pure" entertainment, although since most of them are of Japanese origin, I have no idea if they marketed toylines for them, but they probably did. But then, it's easier for a movie to provide that level of entertainment than an ongoing series, which has to keep coming up with new stories, and reinventing itself in order to stay alive. Yeah, the Avatar series is pretty good entertainment, I've enjoyed it myself. And I'm a Naruto fanatic. But they all have stuff they'd like you to buy. So how about we go with: Beast Wars( I vote Beast Machines actually ) is the best-written Transformers series ever, period. Do I think it's time for a new series of it? Not really, but I do like beast-bots, and would love to see more included in whatever series is currently taking place, provided that it's written intelligently and their inclusion makes sense.


Besides, Family Guy is the best series EVAR!

I'm not basing my opinion on the toy-selling aspect of BW/BM or whatever else. I'm just saying that it's there and it does impact the shows. The writers are forced to explain character introductions and upgrades, which are driven not by the needs of the story, but by the marketing of the toys. Of course, any animated series or movie is going to have merchandising tie-ins, but the difference is whether the show drives the toys, or vice-versa. The Transformers brand is owned by a toy company, so it's always going to be like that.

Right. I'm not disagreeing with you on that point. Some shows come from toylines, and some toylines come from shows. And Tf's are toyline first, show second. Still, I'd have to rank BW/BM in the top five of BEST ANIMATED SHOWS EVER DONE. IMO, of course.


And, back to the point, no, not ready for a new BW series. But someday. Yesssss...

Personally I can say it is safe to say that Animated will blow anything made in Japan away.

A new Beast Wars might not really work, they need to do something radically different and Animated does seem to fit that bill.

So are you saying that a series that's connected to a toyline can NEVER reach greatness, because if so I'd like to point you in the direction of Neon Genesis Evangelion, sponsored by Bandai, and pretty well regarded as one of the greatest anime series of all time. The same can be said for Gundam, in it's various iterations. If the writers know what toys are coming (as they did in BW\BM) they can work the aforementioned character introductions organically (which they did in BW by setting up the whole protoform thing). Being toyline-based doesn't automatically hinder the story of the show. It's only when you get things like heaping new character after new character that you get problems, and this is the real problem most TF shows have suffered from.

My God.... please don't start talking about Evangelion.

Please.

For my money, I've never liked Beast Wars. Maybe the cartoon was fantastic, maybe the CG Animation was groundbreaking, and maybe the writing reached levels people never expected a Transformers cartoon to touch - but I don't care, because I'm not into the toys.

For me, the toys are what matter for each series; while I appreciate that Beast Wars essentially saved the Transformers line here in America, the toys don't speak to me. Only a few Beast Wars/Neo toys have made it into my collection (Heinleid and the combiners) because I generally don't like the design aesthetic they depict, i.e. shells which split and divide to expose the robot underneath the intact outer shell. And don't get me started on Fuzors.

I don't watch the cartoons; I base my buying decisions on the mold and transformation scheme. If the next series were to be another Beast Wars style, there would have to be some pretty remarkable toys to come out of it to get me to spend my money on them.

no

Don't really see a need for a new BW. The show was marvellous and is without a doubt my favorite TF show ever made and nothing can even come close to it (just talking in TF, there are many shows that I like a lot better).

ButI don't like re-using already established concepts or even worse redoing older stories. And as stated earlier, can you really think of another reason why they would all be beasties without forcing it? They could put them on a planet where there is no technology, but that would work for the Maximals/Autobots who want to blend in and not disturb, while the Decepticons would keep their military advanced alt modes and plunder & demolish (think BWII).

No, they should just continue with stories and keep things mixed. I would really like it if they expanded on the factions. IMO post BM Cybertron is habited by Autobots, Maximals, Decepticons & Predacons (and perhaps even Vehicons for those who abhor organics), just as humans are one species but several races. Would also make for more character development since these different TF races have different goals that could clash.

the best thing about bw was the story and animation... the writers really went to an effort to make something new that still fit within the g1 timeline. ..

the toys weren't that great... they were better than g1 as far as articulation but they never scratched that tf itch... i never bought any of them... a kid who lived in a house i used to house sit had loads of them but i never liked them so much to where i had to buy any of them...

Oh, I'm really sorry. Forgot how it's become popular on the internet to bash it. The fact is it was a fantastic, groundbreaking show. Just like...



Just like what the other poster was saying about the transformations, that's not the case. Certainly in the first couple of waves it was, but the toy designs became much more interesting in the later seasons with the various iterations of transmetals and, yes, Fuzors. The Fuzor toys are great, and the concept is fascinating, especially since they avoided typical 'chimera' type beasts and made some of their own. What didn't you like about it?



The BW toys, IMO, were remarkable, in many, many cases. Some (like the original Cheetor) are a let down. Others (Optimal Optimus) are amazing, but for the most part it was a great line. I really don't understand what you can find to hate about it.

no more beastwars they were cool but no more. after seing beast machines i was quickly out of that series.

Its not that Beast Machines was bad. I just did not like the style and the tone, and the techorganic is where I drew the line.

...and about Evangelion. My brother absolutely hated it, said it was too slow and hated the main character. I know that it is praised as a great anime but why? I never watched the show so...

The TF Animated series looks promising. Hope they don't do the exaggerated expression like the Teen Titans. It just doesn't suit the Transfomers.

I personally don't give a damn what's popular on the internet; I'm old enough to form my own opinions, as well as perfectly capable of recognizing the difference between Opinion and Fact. Above, you stated your Opinion that Evangelion "was a fantastic, groundbreaking show" as Fact. The Fact that you feel that way (as do many other people) while I personally feel (as do many other people) that the plot is convoluted, meandering, and never comes to a satisfactory conclusion does not make one or the other of us wrong - it simply means that we have differing opinions.



I dislike the way they look and the lines they have. They simply do not appeal to me, in much the same way that the movie toys do not appeal to some others, and still others dislike G1. I enjoy clean, unbroken lines in Alt mode which I do not feel I find in many of the Beast Wars figures, including the later releases. The Fuzors were visually unappealing to me (part Whale, part Elephant - it's Whalephant!!) and I dislike the "stand on hind-legs while the forelegs become the arms" approach to bot modes which I frequently find in BeastFormers. That's all.



Well, as an example - Optimal Optimus.

It is a single figure which transforms into an ugly robo-ape, an ugly jet, and an ugly car - among other things, I understand, but I have only personally borne witness to those modes. At the end of the day, though, like the G1 Springer toy - it doesn't really look like any of those things. It comes closest to an ape - but I didn't like that mode, either.

IMO - I didn't like the toys, and would most likely see another Beast Wars series as an opportunity to take a break from collecting the figures.

Maybe it was that it was the brand's biggest success in terms of writing. Even if only "pretty good", wanting to get back to that would be understandable.


Seems difficult enough to find any tv series that's "really good", much less a cartoon. But I've pretty much stopped watching TV for years, so I've no idea what the benchmarks are for kid's shows these days. How would you describe a Transformers show that you classify as really good?

Well that's the tricky thing... I would say that Beast Machines comes closest to it, but that's just because I'm able to appreciate it on an adult level more than any other Transformers show. But then I have to ask, is that the point of Transformers? Isn't it supposed to be a show for kids, to get them to buy toys? Not that it has to be devoid of artistic merit, but I kind of feel like I'm barking up the wrong tree by wanting a Transformers show to directly appeal to me. So I guess what I'd say is that the ideal is the Pixar model of kids' entertainment that adults can enjoy equally, without feeling condescended to, pandered to, or insulted. But at this point I'm not really interested in new Transformers shows anyway. I love my Beast Machines DVD set, and I'll occasionally enjoy watching an episode of Beast Wars or even G1 with my kids, but that's about all there is to it. Transformers is, at its heart, a kids' franchise, so if anything I'm looking more to the movie(s).

When you're talking Pixar though, you're talking Movie again. I mean when you spend 4-5 years developing 1.5 hours of entertainment, meant to be viewed all at once without interuption or explicit time limits thats a very diffrent situation.

Haveing to write a coherent storyline that spans many episodes with complete half hour stories forming the base is tough. Not to mention they probably halve about a tenth of the time tow write and animate.

Also, if you don't think Disney/Pixar is counting the figures, vehicles, and plush toys they can make in preproduction, you got another thing coming.

I certainly don't think that merchandising concerns impact creative decisions made by the writers / director... I mean, they have a whole other division to handle stuff like that. Why should they care? I mean, their last movie was about a rat.

I think Jungle Planet was the closest we may get to a BW rehash anytime soon. That said, I think it'd be pretty cool for there to be a more present beast-mode sub-faction in a future TF series. Kinda freelance or commando-y. Like the Morlocks in X-men, or the bounty hunters in Star Wars.

As for the shows existing to sell toys; I don't think Beast Wars really catered to that purpose like most other universes did. There was, what, 25% of the toys actually represented on the show? They added characters to help the story, not used the story to add characters like in G1 or AEC. As much as I'd like to have seen all the BW toys represented in the show, it would have ruined the plot or character development. Of course, I'd still love to see IDW's Beast Wars series as a show. IDW is THOROUGHLY impressing me with their 'G1' and Beast Wars plots/twists/mysteries/cliffhangers.

I know you weren't talking to me, but I'll take the opportunity to add my two cents. For me a really good TF show would be a mixture of the IDW and Dreamwave stories into show form.
Start the show with the story from Megatron Origins, and have that lead into a War Within-like story ark, which in turn would lead to a re-imagining of the G1 story with the 'Bots and 'Cons crashing on Earth, and then reawakening. Use the comics as source material; make the action gritty and violent, play up the aspects of war, present Megatron not as some crazed evil bad guy who wants to rule the universe "just 'cause," make him the revolutionary who founded the Decepticons to fight a system he thought had wronged him. Don't make Optimus Prime a perfect, god-like figure. He' not sure if he's able to lead at first, and even when he becomes the great leader we know him as he still has doubts (referencing Nova Prime here to show that being a Prime doesn't mean a 'Bot has to be "good"). These doubts, and how he overcomes them, only serve to strengthen his role as leader.
The Dinobots. Don't make them simple-minded fools who talk like cavemen. Make them warriors, the strongest of the strong. 'Bots who by all accounts should be 'Cons, but threw their lot in with the good guys. Have them serve as the Autobot's strongest, even ruthless warriors, who realize that sometimes you have to "go over to the dark side" to defeat it.
Essentially what I want is a G1 rehash based on the comics, that would be aimed at teens and adults, not kids.

Still, I realize that'll never happen because of the toy factor. I can still dream, can't I?

Just a note. They'd have loved to put more Transformers on the show. The sole reason they didn't wasn't to preserve the plot or help the storyline. It was simply because they didn't want to spend the time or money developing new animation models for new characters.