This is a little thread to talk about what’s going on in Spider-Man. To start my views on Spider-Man #1. I had such high hopes for this book, but I can’t overlook what it did to one of my favorite villains “Green Goblin�. For 39 years he has gone without ever being caught. He spent all this time one step ahead of Spider-Man and the cops. He even at one point convinced all of New York that Spider-Man was a villain and even had the Punisher after him. I always thought this was one of the coolest things about him, being the only Spider-Man villain that has never lost. I don’t think it should always be this way but in 9 pages (ya I counted) he is “brought down�, sorry but that is unforgivable. We read of what he did prior to the fight we got to see (and it seemed interesting but we saw none of that). It seemed like Mark Miller was just trying to be the writer that had Spider-Man finally beat the Green Goblin. I still have hope that Mark Miller (as he is a great writer) will make it that Norman walks out of this smelling like roses. If he winning streak should end it better be very climactic. I wanted to like this and will read each issue, but I can’t bring myself to overlook this, as the hole issue dealt with Peter’s big win. Also another story going on in the Pulse is suppose to have Jessica Jones and Ben Urich “Bring him down�, so is this gonna be one of those “These are alternate tails that have nothing to do with each other� which is Marvel’s favorite thing to say so they don’t have to have any continuity. So any thoughts on this or Spider-Man in general.

I thought this issue was really cool. If Millar wanted to be "remembered as the guy who brought the Goblin down", then he wouldn't have done it in 9 pages. It would've been 9 issues.
And I don't think the whole issue was about SM's victory, I thought that was focused on very little. Everything seemed like it was centered more around Peter's situation with his family/job/lifestyle. That whole bit with *semi-spoilers* Aunt May thinking about putting up Doc Ock's engagement ring on ebay was awesome. *end semi-spoilers*

"Something heavy, something heavy, something heavy"


That quote alone in the preview pages they released made me wanna get the book.

Me love continuity nod . I agree about the hole thing about if he wanted to be remembered as the guy who “brought down the Green Goblin� he would have done it in more than 9 pages, but still that’s what he did eeeeeerrrrrrr. I liked the focus on his family, I love that, but you read my objections. O and ya the issue wasn't totally about it but it was brought up a lot and thats what I remember from it (but then again he is my favorite).

don't worry, Norman won't stay down. You can bet money on that. I thought it was a great way to start this book out with a bang. Definitely better than Spectacular, which I also get. Don't get me wrong, I love Spectacular, but the Lizard arc was humdrum. And they need to get Ramos back. I think MK Spidey is friggin awesome though, can't wait to see Electro, Vulture, Doctor Octopus, and Black Cat.

Norman better not stay down. Ya Spectacular isn’t all that. I still like it better than the whole mystical spider thing in Amazing, the more they don’t say about that the better. I love JMS writing and on the issues he doesn’t bring that up its like wow, but I just hate that hole angle Spider-Man is the everyman not the man bit by a mystical Spider conscience thingy That's all I have to say about that. The Lizard arc sucked, liked the Venom (even if they ignored all Venom's continuity) and Doc Ock one. Anyone else notice that they are doing the same thing with Doc Ock that they did with Wolverine. That is all the different versions of him look the same. With Wolverine X-Men Evolution made a new Wolverine costume, then before you know the regular Marvel Universe, and Ultimate versions are both wearing that costume. With Doc Ock they are all wearing the movie costume (or lack of one). Why, I liked Doc Ock's Ultimate costume better. I am looking forward to all that Mark Miller has to do with the characters, he is a great writer (just the Green Goblin thing got to me), waiting on number 2.

MK: I liked Spider-man MK #1. About the whole Green Goblin thing, you know he is probably the one responsible for Aunt May's disappearance. So I am sure we have not seen the last of him. This is probably all part of some elaborate ploy of the Green Goblin to get at Spidey where he is most vulnerable, Aunt May and MJ.

Also, I liked Millar's diaglogue and the Doc Ock engagment ring reference was a nice touch as well.

Spectacular: it's ok. I like the new supporting characters actually. I haven't finished the Lizard arc yet but I can tell I'm not going to like it after just the first issue.

Amazing: I'm getting tired of the Dr. Strange stuff and all that. I kind of like the idea of his powers possibly being mystical-based. I'm interested in seeing where they take it. Look at it this way, at least it's not another "Clone" storyline.

I will be getting it this Sat

...mystical spider? Okay then, no wonder I don't read that one. And what do you mean about ignoring Venom continuity, I thought it stood by that.

The mystical Spider thing has been going on since JMS took over Amazing Spider-Man. IF you wan that explained more just ask but for now (quick version: The question was asked, “did the radiation give the spider the ability to transfer its abilities, or did it already have that power and the radiation just killed it.� Also means there are more spider people running around). The Venom continuity thing has to do with the Symbiote (can’t spell that one). In Amazing Spider-Man during his first battles (and most after that) it itself was against killing innocents. When Venom terrified Mary Jane the Symbiote was complaining to Eddie (we know this cuz Eddie says “I know she wasn’t out target but shaking her up might still help us.�), also after Eddie would kill an innocent, he would talk to the Symbiote about how he knows that it is horrible. Another thing is in the Spectacular issues the Symbiote was homesick but in Super Sized Venom one (Planet of the Symbiotes story line, want to see Captain America possessed by a Symbiote this stories for you), it was found out that the marking (Spider symbol) on the Symbiote (Venom’s) was a marking giving to it by the others Symbiotes because they considered him insane. They considered it insane because it was looking to bond with a host, and all the others used host for was to suck them dry and move to the next (killing millions of planets in the process). It also reviled that the machine that Spider-Man got the Symbiote from was its prison (put there after the other Symbiotes branded him). Also at the end of the story line Eddie and the Symbiote completely join as one (it said they could never separate again, but they all keep separating so this is mute), and in the process gave off a scream of agony so strong that it made life so horrible for all other the other Symbiotes that they killed themselves (all the other Symbiotes in the universe came to earth for their next planet for new hosts). This is the sort version of the story, by the way happened during the clone saga (had the Scarlet Spider in it). So all of this goes against him killing innocents (hated this since Venom’s first appearance) and him being homesick (why would it be homesick when all the other Symbites hated it). By the way any questions you might have about Spider-Man I should be able to answer (have over 1000 issues and read many books on his continuity, plus trading cards, I’m a Spidy nut).

I actually knew all of that stuff, except for the JMS mystic spider crap. The only thing that seems to be contradictory about Venom is the whole separation thing. Just cuz he was banished doesn't mean he doesn't want to go back home. We all get homesick. As for killing innocents, that's when the symbiote is in more control. When Brock had more control, he was a "lethal protector."

When did the MK Spider-man comeout. I didn't know that miller was going to by the writter of that title. Now I have something to look forward to besides Transformers. I think that Amazing is some of the best writtting Spider-Man has had in a while. It isn't just the best subject. The vampire story was really intense. Alot of the dialogue (sp?) is laugh out loud. I was just happy to kick up and read a good Spider-Man story.

This past Wed. So what does everyone think of this very much more crazy Doc. Ock in Ultimate. Him talking to his arms like they have a mind. I like it makes him different from his regular universe version, since now all Doc. Ocks are streamlined even in stories that take place in the past (negative exposure). O and big Grim you do have a point about the Symbiote wanting to go home even though he can't, as I was under the impression that there were no Symbiotes left in the Universe. The flashbacks in the comic of the Symbiotes all together on the planet could be from before the others found out about what he was doing. Come to think of it, it was the Venom Symbiotes cry from brock rejecting it that made all of the other Symbiotes come to earth. I however don't think that the Symbiote ever controlled Brock (just my believe) as I was always under the impression it loved him (after it found out Spider-Man would never love it back), from reading all of those Venom series of mini series. So many people have different views on the Symbiote Brock connection, and Spider-Man did say it mutated, maybe that’s why it was killing and seemed uncaring about Brock. Who knows I have filling in the blanks, I want it all explained to me. By the way Big Grim you the big Grim from Newsorama, I saw a Big Grim other there talking about wanting to read the Venom and Carnage mini (I can’t wait to hope its good), if so you read the regular Venom series what are your view on it as I’m a little lost (didn’t know the last story took place in the past until they were sending the cloned Symbiote to the Artic). O and by the way it's cool to know someone else read "Planet of the Symbiotes" besides me, and I hated the 500 foot Carnage thought that was so dumb.

yep, that would be me. I go by the same name on every board, both of em. Heh, I used to be on a lot of boards, but now just this and Newsarama. I love the Venom comic, at first it was confusing but now it makes sense that it's another symbiote. I cannot wait to see what happens when the two of em meet up. And I've been waiting for Spidey to make an appearance. Notice how whenever he goes up against Venom, the Fantastic Four is there to help out. They were there in Spectacular #1-5 and now in the current Venom arc. I knew that this one was set in the past, I always check out solicitations for future issues in Previews. I remember flipping through Planets of the Symbiotes, even though it sounds dumb I shoulda gotten it. I just love Ben Reilly as the Scarlet Spider.

cool I'm not the only one who liked Ben Reily as Scarlet Spider. Ya the Fantastic Four keep showing up and its bothering me. I remember Venom used to keep tabs on Spider-Man to keep them from helping. It makes sense since Reeds the only one who knows anything about the Symbiote, but come on its to much of a quick fix. Venom should stalk him again and keep Spider-Man from running to them. Ya the Venom Venom showdown is something I'm looking forward to. Have hi hopes for the Venom Carnage minito . Love a good Symbitoe showdown, just always thought that if Carngane and Venom wanted to they could tear up the hole Marvel Universe (excluding the cosmic caracters, though Carnage gave the Suffer a run for his money).

when did he do that? And what's your name on newsarama?

I don't post on Newsarama just like to read what all everyone else has to say. As for the Carnage, Spider-Man, and Suffer, story see Amazing Spider-Man 430-431. I can break it down for you if you want. I don't want to spoil anything if you don’t want, but you can tell from the cover to issue 431 that Carnage Symbiote takes over the Suffer. Which it shouldn’t be able to do since it is bonded to Kassidy’s BLOOD and has in fact become his blood. Cool story but bad on continuity.

yeah, go ahead and explain it to me. I don't mind spoilers.

Allrighty hear we go. I’m going to leave some of the most useless information out. Issue 430 starts with Spider-Man finding out that the Heroes lost in the Onslaught are alive and back. He goes to see the Fantastic Four, all the time wondering about the bounty that is on his head thanks to Norman Osborn. He gets there finds out that the Thunderbolts still are in the Baxter Building, and then goes to Empire State University were him and Mary Jane are taking classes. The Silver Surfer is heading to Earth to meet with the Fantastic Four as he has also found out about their return. We then se Mary Jane yelling at Peter for going out in his Spider-Man costume as there is a bounty on his head and he’s being stupid. At Ravencroft and new man has taken over and is complaining about all the money that is spent keeping Kasady in his cell. On the security cameras we see that Kasady is in an almost comma like state (staring off and drooling). The new boss says that there is no way Kasady would know if a few of the security measures that are in place, were turned off as he doesn’t even look like he knows were he is. They cut them and Carnage breaks out. Kasady heads to the daily Bugle (for some reason, I guess he wanted to cause panic). Joe Robison’s wife goes into an elevator with no other than Kasady when she says she’s Joes wife, Kasady say they go way back and was wondering if she could deliver a message for him. When the elevator opens she is cut up and in her blood it is written “Carnage Rules�. All the staff run to her rescue, Peter is working at the time and figures Carnage couldn’t have gotten far. On the street Kasady sees a healthy man park in a handicap parking space and says to the man “In case you didn’t notice that’s a handicap spot� he says “mind your own business� Kasady turns into Carnage and picks up the guys car says, “how bout I cripple you so you can use it�. The man screams and Spider-Man hears him and attacks. The Suffer who is flying overhead sees the commotion and heads to see what is going on. When the Suffer attacks Carnage says “I..We…Know….You..� The Symbiote then rips itself away from Kasady and heads into the sewers. The Suffer heads after it and is ambushed. Kasady tell Spider-Man that all Symbiotes hate the Suffer due to a race memory and then the Suffer comes up the surface, possessed by the Carnage Symbiote. The next issue starts with Kasady on the ground in pain and the Suffer going nuts. The Suffer goes into space to fight the Symbiote, while Spider-Man gets Kasady and take him to the hospital as he has been screaming in pain since the separation. We find out that Joe is at the hospital with his wife and only her arm was cut up, then Spider-Man burst into the hospital. When he gives Kasady to a doctor the cops try to arrest him. In space the Suffer finds out why the Symbiotes hate him. The Symbiotes had just taken over a planet when the Suffer arrived, and instead of talking to them he summoned his leader Galactus, who then devoured the world and there were only a few survivors, and they used there bond with all the other Symbiotes to burn the memory in all Symbiotes and all to come. The Suffer is attacked by Kasady’s memories and feeling, he fights them with compassion and head back to Earth. On Earth we see Spider-Man faces a personnel crises “everyone hates me�. At the hospital we see a doctor tell why Kasady is in so much pain he has advanced Stomach Cancer and the Symbiote was the only thing keeping him alive, Kasady will die shortly. The Suffer gets to the hospital and Spider-Man attacks him, they go back and forth on the right thing to do. It augment ends with would you rather the Symbiote have a human host or a Cosmic one, and him basically saying that he can’t fight it much loner. The Suffer adds one last dig are you willing to sentence Kasady to Death. They get the Symbiote back to Kasady and they join to become Carnage. The Suffer then incases them in an unbreakable shell that will keep them alive forever, but never let them leave. By the way it was never explained how he got out of it just that one day the shell was gone and Carnage was there. Hope this helps, Man was it a lot of typing.

wow, that's a lot. Cassidy's cancer supports that whole thing about the Venom symbiote choosing Brock because of his cancer too.

in relation to the first post, the Goblin was indeed caught before. At the end of the original Spiderman series before the relaunch, Gathering of Five.

so how'd Norman get outta that situation?

OK. He wasn’t technically caught, and wasn’t found out. He went insane due to the gathering. He was taken into custody buy two police men (still in Goblin costume). When they got him away they took off his mask and were socked buy who he was. The policemen were right then killed (before he could be taken in and charged) by the Scairs (who at the time Norman ran), and took Norman away to find a cure. So he technically wasn’t caught (no witnesses to it), and was never found out. If you want I could go into how he was cured, even though that has been seemingly dropped from continuity. Theres just about no question about Spider-Man I can't answer.

I knew Norman went insane cuz of the gathering, and I knew he was captured at some point. Cept that Goblin costume was pretty stupid looking. But how washe cured? And he still acts like a crazy man.

In the "Revenge of the Green Goblin" miniseries, Donald hired a doctor named Bendis or something like that to cure Norman's insanity. He devolped these patches that when used enough would get rid of the sanity. Norman then had him killed by the Cult of the Goblin (yeah, you read that right) by throwing him into the cult in a spiderman suit. THen his body was thrown into the river

yeah, I remember skimming through that tpb. So I knew all of that happened except I didn't know his insanity was cured. And he sure doesn't act like it. But whatever happened to the cult?

Went the way of the clone saga. Marvel feels "if we don't mention it will go away". Sciers cool Goblin's stupid The Sciers that didn't fallow Norman came back, made a super Scier (some guy with super powers), and were defeated. I belive that Norman allways had to use the Patch to keep his insanity away, I belive it was dropped (meaning this part of continuity, could you just think about anytime Norman gets up he has to put on the patch). But lets just say it wasn't that explains his behavior in The Pulse.

I don't read the Pulse, but I know what it is. What's going on in there right now?

Some reporter from the Bugle stumbled on a story revolving around people disappearing from Oscorp. She then went to Oscorp to find out what has going on. She told Norman she was there for a special the bugle was doing on rice people and Norman was in it. As soon as she mentioned the disappearances, Norman started chocking her; the next scene shows him in his Goblin getup (Romos style) dumping her in a lake. You think Norman would be more cool and swave about it, but no just went nuts and killed her, cool scene, just feel that it was more like Ultimate Norman. The whole first arc revolves around Norman and Spider-Man so all Spidy fans read this book.

well it is done by the same team behind Ultimate Spider-Man

Maybe the patch works to eventually erode away the Gathering madness so at one point the patch wouldn't even be needed anymore?

but isn't the Gathering madness of mystical origins, so how can a patch overcome that?

Never really got that one myself. Guess they just needed to fix it right away. It being mystical and all I don't see how it could ever got away, unless a writer just didn't care about it. It would make an easy end to all battles. Spider-Man swings in and "Got your, patch, I got your Patch", The Green Goblin falls to the ground foaming at the mouth and saying "I killed him, I killed him" 1

join us in shout box, UM

it seems that they are turning Norman into a more insane Goblin lately. After the Ramos/Junkins story, we have the Pulse and Millar Spidey stories of a completely off the deep end version. Personally I like this one just as much as the business Goblin. It's a good substitute for Carnage who was Spidey's only other completely psychotic villain.

The Goblin is probably the only villain who can play both extremes. It's pretty sad actually.

I dunno, Doc Ock was friggin nuts in Spectacular.

Ultimate Doc Ock is pretty fare gone too. He thinks his arms have their own mind. Ultimate Spidy rocks, anyone read the new issue, its almost like nothing gets to him. The kid has balls of steel, and always a smart comment to add. Unless were talking about Aunt May then he has nothing to say.

I only get Ultimate Spidey in TPB

Well at lest your not missing out. It is always best to read the stories in one sitting.

indeed

Okay, Megagalvatron... something I never got, personally. I loved the Clone Saga (there, I said it) and love Ben Reilly. However, if there's any Spidey question you can answer, how's this one: There is Spider-man. There is Spider-man's clone (Ben, The Scarlet Spider). There is also a corpse in a Spidey costume in a smokestack which Ben was supposed to have crawled out of. So who was the corpse? If it was the first clone, who was Ben? And even now, how can we be sure that Spidey is the real Spidey?

OOOOO trying to test me huh. Well you got to do better than that if you want me to get it wrong. There was a whole story about this (the Corpse in the smokestack)in the Spider books, but for most answers on the clone sage look to “The Osborn Journal�. Ben Reilly was the first successful clone, meaning he didn’t suffer from clone deterioration. Kane was the first to be alive, but latter started deteriorating. The clone we see in the original clone saga is the clone who will one day become Ben Reilly. Spider-Man did dump the clone (Ben) in the smokestack, but the fire in it wasn’t lit at the time. The Jackal then went to the site, climbed in the smokestack, and pulled Ben out and replaced him with a botched attempt (a dead clone). The reason that Ben Reilly seemed dead to Peter was the Jackal had injected with a serum that simulated death. So that is who the corpse in the stack was an already dead clone. We can be sure Peter is the real deal because Marvel says so 1 . Or we can take the story in Peter Parker Spider-Man 75 were the clone saga comes to an end. Norman comes back and attacks Peter, he then tells Peter about how he is the real deal and that the whole thing was orchestrated by him (again see The Osborn Journal for the full story). Peter says I’m a clone you want Reilly, Norman then replies he’s not real a victory over him means nothing. At the end a battle happens and Ben is struck by the Goblins Glider and then die and turns to dust (due to clone deterioration). Well hope that helps . By the way I liked the clone saga too.

what issue did Ben die in? And was it part of an arc, or just a stand alone issue?

loved the clone saga! It was a great story.....

But I never read a whole lot past that issue..... what ever happened with Cain?

I don't think we've seen him since.

lol that would explain it.I pick up an issue every now and then just to see what's going on..... Any great story line going on w/ our web spinning hero?

I dunno, Spider-Man comics are the only Marvel ones I read. But I will be getting Astonishing X-Men when it comes out. Over in DC, I'm reading Superman/Batman, Batman: Gotham Knights, and DC: The New Frontier. Superman/Batman's current arc is the return of Kara as Supergirl. Gotham Knights has the return of Hush. And check out my thread about DC: The New Frontier for more on that book. I think that comic is truly awesome

cool! 2 bad most of my disposable income is... disposed of. lol

Peter Parker: Spider-Man 75, last issue of the clone saga (also return of Green Goblin, great issue, buy this bad boy), and it was the last chapter in a arc called Revelations (there was a trade made, which had a funeral for Ben, but don't think you could find it anymore). Kain did appear briefly after the clone sage when he kidnapped "May", who was being cared for my Alison Morgan. “May� was played up to be Peter and Mary Jane's daughter, but reviled to be Aunt May, trust me it makes no since, I could explain it all but it still gives me a headache thinking about it all. The issue were he comes back was written by Tom Defolco, who also wrights “Spider Girl� (great title by the way, read it) and in Spider Girl (alternate future) it was Spider Man’s daughter that he took and he eventually gave he back to Peter. He did however reappear in the pages of Spider Girl Rumpelstitskin style (as in you now owe me something in return). I dropped Spider Girl for a time and don’t know if he appeared in the time I was away from the book, I know they were leading up to him returning but don’t know if he did (haven’t hunted down the back issues yet). Hope I answered all of your questions.

thanks for the info. I wish I could get my hands on that trade. Lousy Marvel needs to start collecting more of their Spidey back issues.

Well you'll probably never find this trade, and it will probably never be re-release, as it has to do with the clone saga and Marvel hates bringing it up. I wish they would cuz I want to read the funeral (as it was only in the TPB, I’ve never read it EEEEERRRR) I lot of people hear seemed to have liked it. There have been a lot of Spidy trades but they are just all out of print. There's always the Essential volumes. Love those