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ROSEDOGGYDOG
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/9994.cfm

QUOTE
In a decision which is devastating to the Recording Industry Association of America's (RIAA) campaign against file sharing, both parties in Atlantic v. Andersen case have agreed to dismiss the case with prejudice. This means that Tanya Andersen, a disabled single-mother of a nine year old daughter, is the prevailing party and the door is now open to recovering attorneys fees.

The Oregon woman was accused of sharing gangsta rap music using the KaZaa P2P client. She completely denied involvement in distributing tracks like "Hoes in My Room" using the P2P network and filed a countersuit accusing the record industry of racketeering, fraud, and deceptive business practices in October 2005. The RIAA alleged that she shared the songs with the handle "gotenkito."

Last month, Andersen filed a motion for summary judgment, saying that the plaintiffs have "failed to provide competent evidence sufficient to satisfy summary judgment standards" to show that she was guilty of copyright infringement. A forensic expert hired by the RIAA also completely failed to find any evidence whatsoever on her hard drive to support the RIAA's allegations.

The RIAA had no choice but to dismiss the case "with prejudice". This effectively exonerates Andersen of the crime. In the past, the RIAA has moved to dismiss cases "without prejudice" which ends the lawsuit without a winner. The RIAA could now be forced to cough up an attorneys' fee award.

Andersen's counterclaim is still "standing on its own," according to Tanya, which means she still has the opportunity to argue her counterclaims before the court while the RIAA cannot pursue its copyright infringement claims any further.


hahahahahahaha, what a pleasent read.

Maybe the MPAA should sit up and take notice.
Lord Madhammer
Whoa.

Well I'm all for this.

and "Hoes in My Room" rofl.gif
sertile
I download a Blotload of music, it's true, but I buy enough CD's that it pretty much balances out. Unfortunately, I doubt that defense would hold up in a court of law.
Lord Madhammer
I've gotten rid of a ton of CDs over the years, and then thought "crap I should have kept that" years later.... so I have no issue with downloading stuff that I've already paid for once.
Hellscream333
See, my problem is, I have an assload of Discs and the old ones are deteriorating to the point that I can nolonger access some of the sings since the foil on the top side is bubbling up, wearing off, etc.....so I download to replace what I've lost.

The RIAA can kiss my ass. Only in the music/video industry would a company actually sue it's bread and butter, the customer. Morons. What they don't realize is that most people download, and then purchase. I used to downlad to sample bands and find new music and then I'd purchase for the sake of owning a hard copy, getting the artwork, cd extras and what not. So much for that Blot.


And GOOD FOR HER!
Glue
I think 90-95% of my MP3s (that I don't even listen to anymore) were recorded off my own purchased CDs. But in some true cosmic justice, it'd be that 10% that gets dug up and does me in.. grimlocklaugh.gif
Bizzmoff
I always thought that if you owned the disc/tape/record/8-Track that you could make "backup copies" without problem? Is that not true?

Oh, and I know this isn't true of most popular artists but my friend, who has a few CDs out, told me that he didn't care about people copying his music as long as the music got out there. That sounds like the cool answer but deep down I know most musicians would love to keep the lights on.
Lord Madhammer
Exposure *is* a huge long-term payoff for giving your music away. I think file sharing really gets to be a problem when people already know who you are and are just leeching your music from the interwebs, rather than buying it.

Part of what chaps my backside about the whole thing is that none of the monies collected by the RIAA in these cases goes to the affected artists -- it all goes to the RIAA's legal fund. Well screw that.

Most recording artists are indentured servants anyway... everyone should just record their own stuff and sell it on the internet. Do you really need a company to distribute CDs for you anymore?
Buddykiller
guys, downloading the music isn't illegal, even if you have NEVER owned the songs your downloading, in which case it is illegal to keep them over a 24 hour evaluational period. while that bit is illegal, they can't pursue it because who's to say you never legaly owned the album? thus they only legally pursue those cases in which the music was distributed, which is illegal unless you've purchased said right from the riaa.

also, yes, it is 100% legal to have a digital copy of music which you have legally purchased which is why the mpaa will never be able to stop companies from breaking their copy protection. they may have succeeded a few times with some upstart companies by running up the legal fees, but they've never won a legal case that i'm aware of that revokes the rights of fair use.

QUOTE ("Tabasco Sauce")
Most recording artists are indentured servants anyway... everyone should just record their own stuff and sell it on the internet. Do you really need a company to distribute CDs for you anymore?


it's more about promotion than distribution as actual album sales from said record companies only net the artists a minor fraction of their income.

FWIW every album i download has been legally purchased by me.... i just happen to have bad luck when it comes to theft >_>
sertile
QUOTE (death333 @ Jun 8 2007, 05:26 PM) *
See, my problem is, I have an assload of Discs and the old ones are deteriorating to the point that I can nolonger access some of the sings since the foil on the top side is bubbling up, wearing off, etc.....so I download to replace what I've lost.


See, I'm super-Outback about stuff like that. I have so many EP's and singles that are rare almost to the point of being irreplacable, I never even listen to my original hard copy discs except to make sure they're free of errors. Once I get a new (or new to me) CD the first thing I do is check it for errors, rip the tracks to VBR MP3's, then burn a copy to play in my car or stereo. After that the original goes into the vault, never to be seen again - except for their yearly cleaning cycle.
ROSEDOGGYDOG
QUOTE (Buddykiller @ Jun 8 2007, 10:08 PM) *
which is why the mpaa will never be able to stop companies from breaking their copy protection. they may have succeeded a few times with some upstart companies by running up the legal fees, but they've never won a legal case that i'm aware of that revokes the rights of fair use.


http://www.wired.com/entertainment/music/news/2004/08/64453

321 Studios would disagree/agree with you. Not only did they have mounting legal fee but a Judge did rule against them.

I thought they were great. They were the first DVD Backup software I bought (I was new at the whole DVD ripping at the time) and I didn't know about the free ones.

Hell, I liked their approach. They were even on the side of the Afterburners that forced them out. In reality though they NEVER broke the encryption (so they claimed), rather they let the encryption spin up first, then backed it up. They even marked the burned DVD with your serial number so if you posted the movies on file sharing networks, it could be traced back to you.

Its too bad, 321 didn't pay into the MPAA's pocket protection fund and the MPAA took it to them, even though they were on their side.

...I wonder if it is a requirement, in order to work for RIAA/MPAA, that you must eat at least one of your own young.
Buddykiller
i knew about 321, but i still don't think it's anything to go by. fair use is fair use and unbreakable copy protection, jmo, violates fair use rights. also, like i said, they lacked the legal funds to carry out the lawsuit.

QUOTE
"They couldn't afford to do business and fight all the legal fights. They essentially got sued out of existence."
"It's really unfortunate that we can't get one of (the lawsuits) to an appellate court and get (the court) to look at the DMCA issues," Page said.


a case like this really needs to either go to state supreme or supreme to really make a difference, piss on what a small time district judge has to say about the matter. she's probably so out of touch with technology that she hasn't even heard of the dmca.
ROSEDOGGYDOG
QUOTE (Buddykiller @ Jun 10 2007, 03:05 PM) *
a case like this really needs to either go to state supreme or supreme to really make a difference, piss on what a small time district judge has to say about the matter. she's probably so out of touch with technology that she hasn't even heard of the dmca.


Only what RIAA/MPAA pay tell them to say.
Hellscream333
QUOTE (John Boy @ Jun 8 2007, 11:16 PM) *
I always thought that if you owned the disc/tape/record/8-Track that you could make "backup copies" without problem? Is that not true?


it is indeed not true. making any copy of any form even if you own it is basically illegal. Changing it's format it also illegal. I've done exhaustive research on this, being a musician and home recording producer/engineer.

QUOTE (John Boy @ Jun 8 2007, 11:16 PM) *
Oh, and I know this isn't true of most popular artists but my friend, who has a few CDs out, told me that he didn't care about people copying his music as long as the music got out there. That sounds like the cool answer but deep down I know most musicians would love to keep the lights on.



As an Artist.....I give my music away outside of shows. When I play a show i sell them but what happens after that i could really care less. They can copy it as much as they want. As long as I get my $ to recoup for the copy I had to make, I don't care. But I know a lot of musicians who don't see it my way.....greedy bastards.
Buddykiller
QUOTE (death333 @ Jun 10 2007, 11:56 PM) *
QUOTE (John Boy @ Jun 8 2007, 11:16 PM) *
I always thought that if you owned the disc/tape/record/8-Track that you could make "backup copies" without problem? Is that not true?


it is indeed not true. making any copy of any form even if you own it is basically illegal. Changing it's format it also illegal. I've done exhaustive research on this, being a musician and home recording producer/engineer.


until the supreme court sets this strait, there are laws that support fair use and laws against fair use (dmca) and even those laws against it have a clause saying "Nothing in this section shall affect rights, remedies, limitations, or defenses to copyright infringement, including fair use, under this title.". thusly i'm going to have to say that fair use is a legal right and will continue to backup any albums or movies that i purchase.

i find that the mp3 format is easier to use. it takes up less space, etc... not only that but i can keep my original album put up and not have to worry about ruining it.

of course fair use, by definition, only allows i think 2 copies of anything to exist at the same time with said copies having to be destroyed upon the legal transfer of the original to another person.

if we ever had a proper judge that actually looked at the facts, they'd see that user making legitimate back-up copies, and those websites offering free back up copies to those who already own the original work do not hender the profits of said work's proprietors. EVEN PIRACY does little to no actual harm to said proprietors according to the numbers. those that pirate works will either go and actually purchase said works or where not likely to purchase said works at all with or without piracy (leaving only a very few in the middle that actually use piracy as a circumvention for purchasing said works). although piracy will never be legal, it just goes to show how little encryption breaking software actually damages said companies even when used illegally.
Glue
Yyyeah.. I'm not an IP attorney but my amateur study of copyright law and the fair use doctrine tells me it's something other than what you seem to suggest.

QUOTE
the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright.
QUOTE
A reviewer may fairly cite largely from the original work, if his design be really and truly to use the passages for the purposes of fair and reasonable criticism. On the other hand, it is as clear, that if he thus cites the most important parts of the work, with a view, not to criticize, but to supersede the use of the original work, and substitute the review for it, such a use will be deemed in law a piracy.

Do you know of any case law where the defendant successfully argued fair use?

Practically speaking, I agree -- the RIAA doesn't stand to gain much by chasing end-users. Except that they've wanted to cultivate a reputation like the IRS has, which contributes to their obvious popularity. optimuslaugh2.gif

And ultimately, the RIAA is fighting a losing battle in the long run. Both Apple (with their iTunes) and music artists with a bit more sense recognize that the business model for distribution needs to change to properly deal with the evolving market and technology.
Buddykiller
we haven't had a case where fair use has been successfully argued, because we haven't had a case where it could. the people that the riaa are going after are either distributing (which isn't fair use) and/or don't have the $$$ to legally fight it. which also seems to be the problems in the cases in which fair use can be cited (meaning lack of funds). as for apple, the non-drm music is not only more expensive, but also contains tracking information.
Glue
Mmm.. reminds me of what nVidia did to 3Dfx (as much as I love nVidia hardware), or what Creative did to Aureal. Price of our current legal system, I guess.

Yeah, I still consider the commercial music industry to be in a long-term transition. I haven't bought music myself for a long time, but for most contemporary music I find it pretty tempting to just snag the songs I like for 99c each or something.
Buddykiller
i refuse to buy an album put out by the riaa unless it's second hand. i'm not going to support their witchhunt. instead i'll give the money to the band directly by buying merchandise etc... same goes for movies. i'll continue to download as a form of boycott until i get caught i guess.
FREEFALLL666
The main problem I would have if I chose to purchase tracks rather than download music is that mot of the tracks I like cost £30 + for the viynil PER SONG, with the majority of them being 2 minutes long and only available on Blot like LIME WIRE or vynil well the price is too high.
Big Pimpin Spending Cheese
QUOTE (Texas Pete @ Jun 8 2007, 05:16 PM) *
Whoa.

Well I'm all for this.

and "Hoes in My Room" rofl.gif

When I 1st heard the song I optimuslaugh2.gif1 'D for a long time.
Luda & Snoop are crazy
ROSEDOGGYDOG
http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-9745831-7...ag=2547-1_3-0-5

QUOTE
In what appears to be the first such occurrence, the recording industry must foot nearly $70,000 in legal bills incurred by an Oklahoma woman whom it unsuccessfully accused of "vicariously" aiding copyright infringement.

Until Monday's ruling in this case, called Capitol v. Foster, the Recording Industry Association of America had never been ordered to pay attorneys' fees as part of its ongoing battle against allegedly illicit file swapping, according to attorney Ray Beckerman, who has been tracking such suits at the blog Recording Industry vs The People.

The RIAA, for its part, said in a statement sent to CNET News.com Tuesday: "We respectfully believe that this ruling is in error and is an isolated occurrence."

Lawsuit targets have been unsuccessful in recovering such fees in at least five other recent cases.

The RIAA's suit against Deborah Foster began in November 2004, when it claimed evidence that an IP address associated with her Internet service provider account was engaging in illegal file sharing. Foster repeatedly asserted she had no knowledge of such activity, and in 2005, the RIAA expanded its complaint to include her adult daughter, Amanda. Because Amanda failed to defend herself against the complaint, the RIAA won a judgment against her by default.

The RIAA continued to pursue its claims against Deborah Foster until U.S. District Judge Lee West in Oklahoma City dismissed them last July. The judge went on to find Foster was eligible for attorneys fees, but the RIAA called for further proceedings to determine the amount.

Foster requested $105,680.75, but the judge concluded in a lengthy 14-page analysis of her itemized expenses and other billing materials that she was eligible only for $68,685.23.

The case was only one of thousands of lawsuits filed against university students, teenagers and grandmothers by the recording industry in its multiyear campaign against peer-to-peer file sharing. But Foster's quest for attorneys fees after her case was dismissed drew a friend-of-the-court brief from advocacy groups including the Electronic Frontier Foundation, American Civil Liberties Union and Public Citizen.

The groups argued that the RIAA has effectively bullied innocent parties into settling by offering "a carefully chosen sum that is substantially smaller than the legal fees required to fight the accusations." The organization has also been known to get the identity of its targets wrong in the past.

"A fee award would encourage innocent accused infringers to stand up and fight back against bogus RIAA claims, deter the RIAA from continuing to prosecute meritless suits that harass defendants it knows or reasonably should know are innocent, and further the purposes of the Copyright Act by reaffirming the appropriate limits of a copyright owner's exclusive rights," they wrote.

The RIAA on Tuesday defended its handling of the Foster case.

"Our interest in these cases is enforcing the rights of the record companies and artists, while fostering an online environment where the legal marketplace can flourish and the music industry can invest in the new bands of tomorrow," the group said in a statement. "In the handful of cases where the person engaging in the illegal activity in the household is not the person responsible for the ISP account, we look to gather the facts quickly and do our best to identify the appropriate defendant."
ROSEDOGGYDOG
RIAA beaten in court by Tanya Andersen yet again

QUOTE
Despite RIAA lawyers' brilliant legal argument that they shouldn't be required to pay the victim of a lawsuit they brought without evidence because they were still pretty sure she was pirating music has come to its logical consclusion. Today an appeals court upheld both the decision to force the RIAA to pay Tanya Andersen's legal bills and another dismissing her counterclaims against the organization without prejudice.

Although not as sensational, the status of her claims of RIAA harassment could have a longer lasting impact on the future of such litigation. After the RIAA's suit against her was dropped with prejudice, meaning they may not sue her over the same incident, Andersen decided to continue her claims against the RIAA in a separate suit that she hopes will qualify for class action status. By affirming the decision to drop her original counterclaims without prejudice, they may be included in future lawsuits, such as the one she has pending against the RIAA right now.

Her suit charges the RIAA with malicious prosecution and includes, among other allegations, that they tried to gather evidence against her by attempting to contact her eight year old daughter without her permission. She's also accusing the RIAA of violating Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organisation (RICO) laws, although this tactic seems unlikely to succeed as no violence or threats of violence are claimed.


Good new today.
Lord Madhammer
Wow, cool.

I read something the other day about how EMI may pull its funding for the RIAA...
Glue
RIAA can't die fast enough.
I.S.T.
Well, this is awesome.
ROSEDOGGYDOG
QUOTE (Big Daddy @ Jan 18 2008, 11:33 AM) *
Wow, cool.

I read something the other day about how EMI may pull its funding for the RIAA...



That whole EMI thing isn't what it seems to be if I remember correctly (I'll have to find the article). I was under the impression that EMI wants RIAA to reorganize into something else while doing the same thing. Smoke and mirrors.
Satan's Camaro
I hope the RIAA burns in the firey pit of record industry hell.
Buddykiller
QUOTE (Satan's Camaro @ Jan 23 2008, 07:23 PM) *
I hope the RIAA burns in the firey pit of record industry hell.


QFT

never buying a damn cd at retail again thats been backed by the RIAA. i used to buy them evey once in a while but i made the decision after they went after mp3 players that i wasn't going to, even if they drop this crap. they've lost me as a customer permanently for their treating their customers like Blot and trying to force us to purchase music we've already purchased just because we want to use a different format.
ROSEDOGGYDOG
Judge once again affirms award against RIAA in Tanya Andersen case

QUOTE
26 June 2008 13:06 by Rich "vurbal" Fiscus | 1 comment

It's been nearly 3 years since the RIAA brought a copyright infringement suit against Tanya Andersen accusing her of sharing files illegally on KaZaA, and nearly a year since she was awarded lawyer fees related to the case after it was dismissed with prejudice. Recording industry lawyers characterize Ms. Andersen's claims against them as an attempt to game the system, but the facts simply aren't on their side.

What really happened should be an eye opener for anyone who believes the labels are actually looking for justice, rather than simply trying to show they can bully people because they have the resources to do so. The RIAA spent nearly two years getting through the discovery process. When the investigation was complete they actually had a weaker case than when they started, and still they claimed the moral high ground, even going so far as to assert their lack of evidence shouldn't be held against them.

According to US Magistrate Judge Donald Ashmanskas, the damages awarded to Ms. Andersen were primarily based on the fact that recording industry attorneys didn't even pursue evidence which clearly suggested someone else was actually responsible.

In his original decision awarding damages Judge Ashmanskas stated "both plaintiffs and defendant at some point identified a man residing in Everett, Washington, who has no connection to defendant, as a user of the screen name gotenkito@KaZaA. When contacted by plaintiffs in April 2007 (almost two years after initiating this action), this man made similar denials to those consistently made by defendant. Declaration of Amy Bauer, Ex. F to Plaintiffs' Response Brief, pp. 2-3. Inexplicably, plaintiffs credit his denials and discredit defendant's."

He goes on to say "they appeared to readily accept the denial of infringement by a third party tied to the user name at issue even though the record discloses no reason to do so, nor any reason to wait so long to contact him after plaintiffs had evidence that implicated him as the actual infringer."

In describing the case's conclusion he summed it up with a simple analogy "In poker terms, defendant didn't call; plaintiffs folded."

So how did the RIAA respond? Not surprisingly they chose to ignore the relevant case law addressing the award of lawyer fees, most notably the 1994 case in which John Fogerty was granted a similar judgement after successfully defending himself against a copyright infringement suit from his former label. Instead they argued that the judge should take a case of trademark violation into account.

In his latest ruling Judge Ashmanskas responded by saying simply "In that case, the Ninth Circuit addressed the calculation of attorney's fees under the Lanham Act, not the Copyright Act."

No doubt the RIAA will call the decision a miscarriage of justice, just as they have every other loss in this case. But in reality they're probably scared of the consequences. They have a consistent record of dropping cases when it looks like an important ruling will go against them. This time they were too late, and the defendant was too determined.


Today is a good day!

And Gene Simmions can go lick his own a$$hole too...
Prime-Collector
I guess, maybe, disabled single mothers aren't the best place to start your campaign of corporate copyright justice?
ROSEDOGGYDOG
you think they would have learned their lesson after suing dead people.
JustLOKIPLVY
hawhaw.png
ROSEDOGGYDOG
RIAA pays $108,000 in lawyer fees, sets precedent

QUOTE
The Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) has fully paid $108,000 USD restitution to P2P defendant Tanya Anderson for lawyer's fees incurred during Tanya's year long winning case against the group.

Over the years, the RIAA has sued tens of thousands of file sharers and many have settled for, on average, $3000 USD. However, a few accused file sharers have fought back and let the cases go to court. Recently the RIAA has suffered a few setbacks in their quest to stop piracy through lawsuits however, including the case of Tanya Anderson. Andersen was accused of downloading hundreds of rap songs under the username "gotenkito" but the RIAA failed to prove that she had any of the files or that she had even downloaded any of them at all.

Although Ms. Anderson won the case, and got paid for the RIAA's waste of the court's time it is important to note that Ms. Anderson's lawyer fees exceeded $300,000 USD and the $107,834 paid back by the RIAA will obviously not fulfill all her requirements. It does however set a precedent that will hopefully push more lawyers to take on cases for accused file sharers, seeing the amount of possible fees that can be had.

"Together with the $117.03 off accumulated post-judgment interest, the total amount of the $107,951.03 has been fully paid and satisfied by the Judgment Creditors," reads the judges statement.

Anderson will now move on the offensive, suing the RIAA as part of a civil suit over "malicious prosecution" of innocent citizens.

I fully believe that $108,000 USD could have been better spent by the record labels to find new talent or a better business model, but I guess losing a court battle over a few downloaded tracks is okay too.


The civil suit will be an interesting one.

On a side note

German file-sharers now have less to worry about
Hobbes-timus Prime
Good for her - it's time some precedent was set one way or the other.
Lord Madhammer
FYI, all of the money the RIAA gets from these people goes to their legal fund. Just for some extra slimeyness.
( . Y . )
QUOTE (ROSEDOGGYDOG @ Aug 15 2008, 03:26 PM) *
RIAA pays $108,000 in lawyer fees, sets precedent
QUOTE
Anderson will now move on the offensive, suing the RIAA as part of a civil suit over "malicious prosecution" of innocent citizens.


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JustLOKIPLVY
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JustLOKIPLVY
So now these f*ckers are trying to sue Youtube all over again.

Chances are when that fails they'll go after individual users instead who like to upload themselves dancing and lip syncing to most obscure and unknown artists/music.

Hopefully they'll run out of money and go completely bankrupt before any of that can happen.
The Diesel
QUOTE
She completely denied involvement in distributing tracks like "Hoes in My Room" using the P2P network


rofl.gif

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