Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Oye Vey Everyone Pray That This Man
TFormers Community > General News & Discussions > General
Optimal-T
I can't believe just how stupid some politians are.

CTV News.ca



QUOTE
Wed. Jan. 19 2005 5:57 AM ET  Advertisement

  Tories to start same-sex marriage ad campaign
CTV.ca News Staff

Multicultural newspapers and religious publications will see ads from the Conservative Party defending traditional marriage in the coming days, CTV News has learned.

The ads will contrast the Liberal and Conservative positions on same-sex marriage and ask "What kind of Canada do you want?"

Conservative Leader Stephen Harper wants to preserve the traditional definition of marriage as being between one man and one woman while protecting the rights of same-sex couples in other ways.

While in India Tuesday, Prime Minister Paul Martin had to deal with the same-sex marriage question.

Joginder Singh Vedanti, spiritual leader of the Sikhs, issued an edict directing his followers around the world to reject the legalization of gay marriage. Vedanti said, "Same-sex marriage originates from a sick mind."

Martin was asked by reporters about the controversy.

"This is a question of civil marriage, not of religious marriage," Martin told reporters after meeting with Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.

"I would point out that we are a country of ethnic and religious minorities," the PM said. "And the purpose of the Charter of Rights is to protect minorities, to protect them against the oppression of the majority."

Sometime in early February, the federal Liberal government will finally table its legislation on same-sex marriage.

Justice Minister Irwin Cotler said it should become law by summer.

The law will be subject to a vote in Parliament. It won't be a free vote. Cabinet ministers and parliamentary secretaries are bound to support it.

It is believed the vast majority of Bloc Quebecois and NDP MPs will support the bill. A few of the 99 Conservative MPs have said they will vote for it.

Legal scholars have said the only way for a federal government to derail same-sex marriage at this point is for a federal government to use the Constitution's not-withstanding clause to uphold a law banning it.

Otherwise, even if Parliament defeats the law, same-sex marriages will still be the law in Ontario, Quebec, British Columbia, Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Yukon.

Appeal courts in those provinces and territories found the traditional definition of marriage violates the equality rights of gays and lesbians under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

The Supreme Court of Canada didn't specifically rule on the constitutionality of the traditional definition -- something eagerly seized on by same-sex marriage opponents when its decision was released in mid-December.

But some legal experts have said the country's highest court tacitly accepted the findings of the various appeal courts on that issue.


Maybe in Stephen Harper's world same sex marriages will lead to polygamy but I sure would like to know exactly what the hell he's basing this on?
AutobotWonko
Slippery slope is a big factor. Canada is more progressive than the US. You can marry a 7 year old there with parental permission. eektf.gif
Optimal-T
Being gay doesn't mean that you'll become a polygamist.
Snapes on a Plane
It's only a matter of time. Believe me, these religious-rights activists don't have a choice, GLBT citizens will be able to marry in the future. All they're doing is delaying it.
But I will admit that it is frustrating and dissapointing to see things like this.
AutobotWonko
QUOTE (Beast Girl @ Jan 23 2005, 04:12 AM)
Being gay doesn't mean that you'll become a polygamist.

If men have the right to marry each other, why shouldn't they have the right to marry multiple people at once. Men can have multiple wives in other cultures like in the Middle East, so why not. Don't they have equal rights too or are you wanting to discriminate against them?
Wikkid
I'm not sure where polygamy is even an issue in this article. I'm guessing you're refering to the "One man, One woman" thing which is nothing more than their view on same-sex marriage and hasn't a thing to do with multiple partners.



Anywho, with the debate on this, I questioned someone who works for the Conservative Party, my mother..................


{Quote}
Conservative Leader Stephen Harper wants to preserve the traditional definition of marriage as being between one man and one woman while protecting the rights of same-sex couples in other ways.




I guess this is the part many tend to dismiss. The Conservative party is not saying that same-sex couples should not be able to have a union and have the same rights that married traditional couples have. What they are saying is that same sex couples should have unions-not marriages in a church. Marriage is a sacrament that is performed in the church. Since many Christian churches do not condone the homosexual lifestyle, why would they allow homosexuals to take part in a Christian sacrament in a church? A civil union, however, would be the perfect answer to this problem. This gives homosexual couples the same rights as traditional straight couples while at the same time protecting the rights of the freedom of religion.



*Please note*(Iaddressed my mother on this topic. She is working for the Consevrative Party (Previously Reform) and this post is the answer she gave me. I see her point and I hope you can see the point being made without starting a flamefest.)
Bizzmoff
QUOTE (Wikkid @ Jan 23 2005, 01:07 PM)
I see her point and I hope you can see the point being made without starting a flamefest.)

*flames Wikkid* Yeah, I didn't quite see the point of the above comments by Beast Girl referring to polygamy. That wasn't mentioned in the article. *flames Beast Girl* I agree that only a man and woman should be able to be "married" in the religious since of the word. That's what I believe and I have the right to speak my mind about it tounge1.gif
Optimal-T
Bizz why are you flaming me? I wasn't knocking religion. I'm just saying that people should have the right to marry who they want to marry and love who they love, gay or straight, and to have someone blast something that they don't know anything about is ludicrous.

"What Kind Of Canada Do You Want?"? What kind of Canada do I want? I want the kind of Canada where they keep dumb ass people like Harper from ever getting into postitions of power like this. huffermad.gif
Bizzmoff
QUOTE (Beast Girl @ Jan 23 2005, 08:35 PM)
Bizz why are you flaming me?  I wasn't knocking religion.  I'm just saying that people should have the right to marry who they want to marry and love who they love, gay or straight, and to have someone blast something that they don't know anything about is ludicrous. 

"What Kind Of Canada Do You Want?"?  What kind of Canada do I want?  I want the kind of Canada where they keep dumb ass people like Harper from ever getting into postitions of power like this.  huffermad.gif

I didn't flame you...I just stated a fact. The article didn't mention polygamy...you did. Besides, the article made a mistake. Saskatchewan does NOT support same-sex marriage.

QUOTE (http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_marb33.htm)
With the court decision in Saskatchewan, same-sex marriage is not allowed in two territories and four provinces: the Northwest Territory, Nunavut Territory, and the Provinces of Alberta, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, and Newfoundland/Labrador. Same-sex couples there are in a legal limbo. The courts have decided that the couples can marry, but the province appear to be refusing them marriage licenses until ordered by a court.


We can agree to disagree on this subject and still be INTERNET "friends". Won't you be my INTERNET friend?
Optimal-T
Okay. I can live with that. smiletf.gif
LordoftheMatrix
QUOTE (Wikkid @ Jan 23 2005, 10:07 AM)
I'm not sure where polygamy is even an issue in this article. I'm guessing you're refering to the "One man, One woman" thing which is nothing more than their view on same-sex marriage and hasn't a thing to do with multiple partners.



Anywho, with the debate on this, I questioned someone who works for the Conservative Party, my mother..................


{Quote}
Conservative Leader Stephen Harper wants to preserve the traditional definition of marriage as being between one man and one woman while protecting the rights of same-sex couples in other ways.




I guess this is the part many tend to dismiss. The Conservative party is not saying that same-sex couples should not be able to have a union and have the same rights that married traditional couples have. What they are saying is that same sex couples should have unions-not marriages in a church. Marriage is a sacrament that is performed in the church. Since many Christian churches do not condone the homosexual lifestyle, why would they allow homosexuals to take part in a Christian sacrament in a church?

Turbine, you guys will have your day, don't worry.

I honestly wonder why marriage exists at all, to begin with.
I honestly don't see what good it is in a modern society. Poeple should be able to trust, love, and understand another person without a legal document that says they aren't allowed to f*ck someone else...

I'm not a religoius person at all, and I tend to blame most of society's problems on religion...so I see no reason to "get married" in my life. I have no purpose or use for it...but some of you feel otherwise, gay or straight. It means something to you, and you should have a right.

And to say that allowing a gary marriage in your church violates your own religious civil rights is too leaning. To say that a gay couple is not allowed to be witnessed by God in union is a violation of their religious rights. The truth here is this

NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO TELL ANOTHER PERSON WHAT TO DO. BE THEIR AUTHORITY GOVERNMENT OR GOD.

Now, go back to your tv dinners.
AutobotWonko
QUOTE (LordoftheMatrix @ Jan 24 2005, 02:24 AM)
And to say that allowing a gary marriage in your church violates your own religious civil rights is too leaning. To say that a gay couple is not allowed to be witnessed by God in union is a violation of their religious rights. The truth here is this

NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO TELL ANOTHER PERSON WHAT TO DO. BE THEIR AUTHORITY GOVERNMENT OR GOD.

Now, go back to your tv dinners.

Parents have a right to tell their children what to do. The government has authority given to it by its people. You are wrong on both accounts.

People forget marriage has a purpose of creating a monogamous family unit for the children the marriage potiential may create. Otherwise you have unstable families and illigitimate children everywhere. We would not have all of the social problems we have now if people know what they were doing and what marriage was. The sexual liberation of the 60s has messed society up greatly as seen in the insane divorce rate. For some, the idea of homosexual marriage degenerates the purpose of marriage even further because it does not serve any function of marriage. The reaction to homosexual marriage is a fight to reform marriage to what it should be, not something to get in and out of freely or serves no purpose.
Bizzmoff
QUOTE (Beast Girl @ Jan 24 2005, 02:13 AM)
Okay.  I can live with that.  smiletf.gif

clap.gif *puts away flamethrower*
Wikkid
QUOTE (LordoftheMatrix @ Jan 23 2005, 11:24 PM)
And to say that allowing a gary marriage in your church violates your own religious civil rights is too leaning. To say that a gay couple is not allowed to be witnessed by God in union is a violation of their religious rights. The truth here is this

NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO TELL ANOTHER PERSON WHAT TO DO. BE THEIR AUTHORITY GOVERNMENT OR GOD.

Now, go back to your tv dinners.

Why should a group of people respect your opinions and beliefs when you and others like you are unwilling to respect theirs? By this I mean churchy people believe it to be wrong, so why should they be forced to allow something they teach is wrong. By doing so, you make religion nothing more than a hobby.



And I will state again, the Conservative party is NOT against homosexual unions. They just want it seperated from the church. If anyone can't see this it's because they don't understand the difference or are unwilling to compromise.


BTW, I strongly support homosexual unions.
Optimal-T
QUOTE
Legal scholars have said the only way for a federal government to derail same-sex marriage at this point is for a federal government to use the Constitution's not-withstanding clause to uphold a law banning it.


Thanks to Paul Martin that's not going to happen. clap.gif I applaud Paul Martin for doing this but at the same time nobody is forcing the religious right to perform gay/lesbian marriages if they'd rather not do it. biggrintf.gif
Guld
Oooh, a canadian political topic. Is this even allowed?

The "sanctity" of marriage has long since dissolved. If you need a piece of paper or a ceremony or a shiney rock (ooh ooh caveman like) to PROVE your relationship, then the fact of the matter is that your relationship is a sham anyways.

Ceremonies can be forgotten, papers and rings lost. What matters is in your heart.

I believe that ANYBODY who is of sound mind and wants to get married/unionized (I'm pretty sure that's not a word) they should be allowed. Whether it is a man and a women, a man and a man, a woman and a woman, a trio, cousins, siblings or whatever. I will never have a problem with a persons beliefs as long as they do not infringe upon the rights of others. And individuals who AREN'T me, getting married, dosn't impact my life, and if there is a church or location set up for this act then by all means....go wild.

And if conservatives wants to "preserve the sanctity" or marraige so badly then they should try and decrease the divorce rate first. And I do NOT think that ANY church should be forced to perform a ceremony it does not believe in.

Sorry for ranting, but here in Alberta our premier recently said that he was opposed to gay marriages and would not allow his province to "burn in hell". I try to have an open mind to EVERY opinion, but the ignorance and hate in that statement sickened me.
AutobotWonko
I always say "if you are not married it is not cheating." Without the bond of marriage before God and the law there is nothing binding you to the other person or creating a family unit. There is no true commitment. However you are right, we all need to fight the high divorce rate.
Guld
QUOTE (AutobotWonko @ Jan 25 2005, 06:13 AM)
I always say "if you are not married it is not cheating." Without the bond of marriage before God and the law there is nothing binding you to the other person or creating a family unit. There is no true commitment. However you are right, we all need to fight the high divorce rate.

There is trust actually. Whether you are married or not, cheating is betraying a bond of trust with somebody.

BUT if you view it differently then that is your own belief, and I respect that.

I guess what I am trying to say is that nobody should be FORCED to do anything and controversially nobody should be DENIED any rights that someone else has.

If you FORCE somebody you have a dictatorship, and if you DENY somebody you develop an inequality.
Wikkid
QUOTE (guld_goa_bowman @ Jan 25 2005, 12:36 AM)
And I do NOT think that ANY church should be forced to perform a ceremony it does not believe in.

And that is my point as well.
Guld
QUOTE (Wikkid @ Jan 25 2005, 10:28 AM)
QUOTE (guld_goa_bowman @ Jan 25 2005, 12:36 AM)
And I do NOT think that ANY church should be forced to perform a ceremony it does not believe in.

And that is my point as well.

*shakes Wikkids hand in sign of Canadian unity*

I have to give Martin credit, he summed it up pretty nicely: "This is a question of civil marriage, not of religious marriage"

Unions for everybody!

And Onions for those who need a good cry. rumblecry.gif
Wikkid
QUOTE (guld_goa_bowman @ Jan 25 2005, 12:36 AM)
our premier recently said that he was opposed to gay marriages and would not allow his province to "burn in hell". I try to have an open mind to EVERY opinion, but the ignorance and hate in that statement sickened me.

agree.gif

That statement he made is sickening. It's no mans place to judge others like that. I don't suppose he was drunk again? Kinda like that incident with the homeless. slytf.gif
Guld
QUOTE (Wikkid @ Jan 25 2005, 10:46 AM)
QUOTE (guld_goa_bowman @ Jan 25 2005, 12:36 AM)
our premier recently said that he was opposed to gay marriages and would not allow his province to "burn in hell". I try to have an open mind to EVERY opinion, but the ignorance and hate in that statement sickened me.

agree.gif

That statement he made is sickening. It's no mans place to judge others like that. I don't suppose he was drunk again? Kinda like that incident with the homeless. slytf.gif

Ughh...Don't remind me.

He is entitled to his opinion though, but as a government official you really should make sure that the views you are spouting publicly represent the views of the people who elected you. rolleyestf.gif
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2009 Invision Power Services, Inc.