Ignore if you've heard this (i've only been an active member of the transformers community for just over 4 months, and am therefore out of the loop). Now i have the Wreckers Comic in front of me (it IS in the bm continuity so it DOES count) and i just realized, if Cyclonus, and Skywarp are in the same ship, doesnt that mean thundercracker is Cyclonus. Of course this still does raise the question how did they get Skywarps memory back, but who the hell cares! it works! (and of course if anybody is wondering no they WERENT pulled from a different timeline, they were attacked by megatrons virus, and reformatted). discuss.

I always thought the leader of the insecticons was cyclonus........

according to www.transformersforever.com ONE of the seekers became cyclonus, and the other became scourge, he slowed down his vcr... i did the same and while i couldnt tell which was which i could tell that scouge and cyclonus were seekers.

Well, I really don't know....
For all I know cyclonus maybe a generic seeker

wow, this has never been talked about before. First, how do you even know that the Universe Cyclonus and the Universe Skywarp are indeed reformatted versions of their G1 namesakes. It is never flat out said that they are, unlike Arcee and Devcon. They could have just borrowed the name, like BW Megatron did.

they look damn close, and if you think about it, its likely isnt it? i mean megatron wasnt past using his own ex-troops, what makes you think he has enough respect to not use decepticon heroes. I'm just saying, i believe it, but hey where's your proof that their not?

Wouldn't it make sense that the generic seeker drones and insecticon clones got tossed out of Astrotrain with Megatron? Megatron was only in that condition because be got beat by Prime. And not like you can tell Drones/Clones from their character leader. They all talked the same anyways. Just like that one guy from Reflector that was blown up on the space bridge.

you have a point tripredacus, but i still wonder, if drones were reformatted, wouldnt cyclonus/scourge be a little slower (mentally)?

Not necessarily. Galvatron became dumber than Megatron was.... no that is a bad example.

Well actually...All the Seeker Drones are Either Teal or Light Purple, not Black and Blue.
There are many other Seekers that are Green, Yellow, Orange, Blue, and Red, but all the Drones have been shown as a Teal or Light Purple.
And I would prefer it that the Insecticons gave their lives like they should have, fighting the war. I highly doubt that those were just the Clones, they could have been, but then where were the Insecticons in Season 3 if the Clones only died?

In that comic, sorry but I just don't believe the Wreckers comics as rightful cannon, now they may be actual cannon, but from what I've seen there is nothing to say they are the G1 characters with new bodies or anything. Now there isn't anythign to prove otherwise.

This topic has been discussed many times...who is who...I find it that Thundercracker was Scourge and the Insecticons were the rest of the Sweeps. Because if you watch the extra Cyclonus disappears and a 3rd Sweeps Clone appears. Skywarp becoming Cyclonus to me makes the most sense.

Wouldnt the colors give them away. Really, Scourge was blue so was Thundercracker. Cyclonus was purple and so was Skywarp. Their were tons of Sweeps, just like the Insecticons .

That's what I was saying Taz...I mean why make Cyclonus be Bombshell...I mean, come on, no sense.
Also the Insecticons can only make clones when they have the right energy and such. Nothing points to them being the Insecticon Clones.

I just was giving some surport.

That Ultimate answer is 42 .... but what's the question?

Oh sorry man...*pats Taz on the back*...

Well I still stand on my grounds with this one.

slowing down my tape over and over again, slowing down windows media player over and over again, i cyc and scourge were insecticons, i stand firmly on that, and i believ in season three the insecticons did show, someone pointed it out once on another topic, the thing about it is with cyc there was tc and an insect right next to each other, both turned into identical cyc's, funny thing is you never see that 2nd cyc again

I am aware in that I believe in one episode in Season 3, one of the Insecticons is shown in one scene...then never appears again...I don't include this at all as real continuity...since it was MORE-THAN-LIKELY an animation error, like Brawn and Huffer helping the 'Cons out for like a two second clip during an episode.

Actually clearly shown is a Seeker that is seen in the center and is the first to be reformated and zoomed in on when Unicron says Scourge.
Now Bombshell is in front when he says Cyclonus but a Seeker is in the background and at that point 'both Cyclonuses" are reformated together.

So to me it DEFINITELY seems as though a Seeker is Scourge atleast...I mean this shouldn't even be a discussion. Now Cyclonus is a bit different, but it makes more sense that the Insecticons form the 3 Sweep Clones and it's all just an animation error since the Second Cyclonus completely disappears and then there are 4 Sweeps afterwards.

All this talk about seekers and clones...
i have forgotten how exactly the insecticons made clones but i would assume that they would not have been broughtr aboard a weakend overcrowded escape ship.

The seeker drones seem more likely but i still wonder, why bother with no name "drones"

my house is burning - save the dog? yes. The toaster? not likely

Hunter
"when I'm done feeling holy, my lonliness tells me I've sinned"

that's it all have to watch the movie again to be sure, then i'll repost my thoughts yeah on cyc's though it's very strange how there's 2 and then only ever again

Very interesting. I wonder what Unicron decided to do with that extra Cyclonus, then? It'd certainly make an interesting storyline...

Okay, I really don't want to debate this since I made my mind up a long time ago, but as an aside, can Insecticon clones even exist without the originals there to control them or whatever? I mean, I always thought they were just holograms or something, so I'm thinking you kill/remove/reformat the three actual, original Insecticons, and the clones will simply vanish or cease to function.

They can exist and since the masters weren't around, that may also explain why they were just floating there like they were dead.

Sometimes I long for the good old days when it was just me and my VCR, and I would imagine that Thundercracker became Scourge and Skywarp became Cyclonus without having to debate it like a million times.

But since I'm a sucker:

Not being a big retcon fan, I believe that every comic / TV episode / whatever must first be interpreted in its own context. External sources should only be brought in if the original source material cannot settle the issue. That is to say, let TF:TM interpret TF:TM before bringing in Wreckers comics, etc.

Okay. Here's what we know:

Behold, everyone who gets chucked out of Astrotrain (except Megs of course). Smile!


(BTW: no drones here. In fact, the drones only appeared in several episodes of Season 1.)

Here's either Thundercracker or Skywarp getting reformatted as Scourge. To be honest, we don't know which one it is. You have to speculate if you're going to pick one. (How do we know one of the Insecticons isn't Scourge? Because Unicron is narrating as this happens, and he says "Scourge, the tracker" as the guy in the middle is reformatted, followed by "and his h****men, the Sweeps" as the Insecticons are reformatted.)



Next, Bombshell is reformatted as Cyclonus -- if you're going to follow Unicron's narration -- and the other seeker is reformatted as his "armada".



So that's what we have. As I said, I like to imagine Cyclonus and Scourge coming from Skywarp and Thundercracker, respectively. But I have to admit that that's just my opinion. The intent of the film (assuming no animation errors) seems to be what I described above.

ok that settles it for me, i just watched again, think there was something wrong with the one on my cpu then because i don't remember he scene being like that, but when you download something no telling what can happen, but i could've just had eye's messing with me. ok, well lets talk about the animation errors then, when uni show's the people to be formatted, there's 5 people, after formatting cyc and his armada (whoa 1 guy that disappears) they all transform..... well the disappearing cyc is in his final scene that i can recall, but how come there's 4sweeps if they only show 2 getting reformatted? and if there were only 5 body's out there and 2 became cyc, how come in later episodes there were always atleast 3sweeps with scourge? oh and when they fly into the ship there's 5 but the extra cyc is gone and there's only 3sweeps and scourge gotta love it.

I thought this was an "error" in the animation, and that the original intent was to have Thundercracker/Scourge and Skywarp/Cyclonus. I can't remember where I read this or who said it though...

I think you're right; I think it was Floro Dery or someone who said that the intent was to have it as you said. And like I said, that makes a lot more sense to me. AND like redrum said, that mysterious second Cyclonus disappears almost as soon as he's created. (But it couldn't have been *just* an animation error because Unicron "calls out" the second Cyclonus... argh my head hurts again.)

I just wanted to stick to what we can all agree on to start with (you must have missed the BC/DLP flamefest about "writers' intent" vs. "finished product").

Like I said before...Animation Error, because after all this reformating there are 4 Sweeps including Scourge and there is just ONE Cyclonus.

So I stand by that Scourge was Thundercracker and the Insecticons were supposed to be the rest of the Sweeps. Leaving Skywarp to be Cyclonus. This makes the most sense...simply because Thundercracker and Skywarp are much more important than the Insecticons and I'm sure all-seeing, all-knowing Unicron would have known this.
The Insecticons becoming a group of look-alikes makes much more sense that a jumblin' of a Seeker and a few of the Insecticons.

But anyone can believe what they want...simply because it's all left up for interpretation...but I still stand on what I believe.

Actually I've always thought Unicron is saying that the total new Group of Decepticons was Cyclonus' armada. Meaning that he was in-charge of all those new 'Cons. That's just how I always saw it.

I don't disagree with you, b/c that would actually make sense. As I said, I'm just following Unicron's narration. The "armada" bit comes at the same time that Cyclonus #2 is being reformatted (before the Scourge bros. show up).

The Insecticons Survieved
Bombshell was in FFoD pt. 5 and Theft in the Night
Kickback was in FFoD Pts 1, 2, and 5
Shrapnel was in FFoD pts 1, 3, and 5


Who sez BM Cyclonis isn't G1 Cyclonis?

Smartass.

BTW you forgot that Shrapnel was also in TF:TM on Junkion.

Ok X-Bob...
BUT...That Japanese Character Breakdown doesn't mean jack to the American Continuity...particularly since in Japan TF:TM wasn't even part of the original continuity at first, so that doesn't do anything for this arguement.

And yes there are two Shrapnel there also in your picture. Season 3 is just almost one giant animation error. So I still say it was chalked up to crappy translations/animation errors, crappy art directors.

TF:TM was ALWAYS part of Jap Countuitcy, in the Begining of 2010, and the 2010 Manga, It recaped the Events of the Movie, P.S. The american countutcy is crap, I would take Starsaber over the giant pile of steaming crap known as Rebirth anyday. Theres 2 shrapnel in that Picture becuse the Insecticons Make Clones!

Actually the events of TF:TM were not placed in the original Japanese Continuity. That's why Prowl and several others are still alive in the Japanese Continuity. This has been known for quite a while.
The movie was not brought in as part of the original Jap Continuity. And yes the make clones, we've seen it. It's in the first season, but why bring ONLY 3 Clones and leave the real Insecticons on Cybertron. IF they were clones, then why didn't they Bring an army of them to Autobot City. Makes no sense...just accept that maybe the Insecticons died in the American Continuity.

Also...if you hate the American Continuity then that's great for you...but please don't try to turn every other thread into a "Japanese Continuity is the Best" thread. And Yes I like Headmasters and Masterforce. I too ignore Rebirth and put Headmasters and Masterforce in it's place. And I like the Japanese Manga too. So don't attack me in that please.

Well X-Bob after going back and re-reading the Japanese Manga of 2010 and doing some research, I was wrong...I'd always heard/believed the Movie was not part of the continuity of Japan...I had forgotten the opening narrations, which I've even read/saw myself.

I concede to you and say you were right...I admit I jumped the gun and defended something in fact I was wrong about...TF:TM in the Jap Continuity. I had gotten my information mixed-up as what can happen sometimes.

However...I do stand that IF they were clones, then why didn't they Bring an army of them to Autobot City. Why only bring 3 Clones and leave the Real Insecticons on Cybertron or whereever. Makes no sense...just accept that maybe the Insecticons died in the American Continuity.

And I agree that ignoring Rebirth and placing Headmasters in it's stead is a superior continuity choice. That is exactly what I do.

Unless you actually got to see the Insecticons creating clones of themselves in TF:TM (which we didn't) it's a bit of a stretch to claim that any Insecticon clones were involved in this at all.

They aren't sentient. They are controlled, but I'm sure someone will raise the argument that if they are controlled then the real Insecticons cna speak through them...*sigh...but I'd just like to accept the Real Insecticons are dead and that's good enough for me.