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then the Universe would of imploaded, b/c that was part of Primus' Grand Plaine 
QUOTE
The last time the Chronarchitect had appeared, it had been in the Earth year 2005, and it had engendered the first real call to arms for the Covenant. Optimus Prime was dead. The Creation Matrix was in transitional flux. Unicron, the chaos-bringer, had returned and was intent on destroying the Matrix, the one force that could in turn destroy him. It was a nexus, a turning point on which countless possible outcomes and futures revolved. The framework of Primus' Grand Plan was an intricate and complex blueprint of possibilities and outcome, an evolving structure that needed the occasional delicate tweak to keep it viable. If the Matrix was not passed, if the next Prime did not rise, if Unicron was not stopped, then the Covenant would step in.
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I guess Unicron would've eventually shown up and dismembered/ate Cybertron with no one to stop him, unless Prime could've opened the Matrix.
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Potentially, the story could have taken an unsual turn of events, with HotRod being suspicous of Prime ( say he shot Hot Rod through the arm or something, so HotRod survives ), Grimlock having newfound respect for Prime and Kup boring HotRod about the number of injuries he suffered.
Megatrons body is retrevied only to be cast out into space to Unicron and the story follows the movies lines.
I suspect Optimus would have found some way to stop Unicron or perhaps he might have led a unified defence of Cybertron ( Having beaten Galvatron in a one on one fight on the planet of Junk ) along side Shockwave only to fall before Unicrons power. HotRod would then be given the Matrix ( or finds it by Primes shattered body ) and destroys Unicron.
Megatrons body is retrevied only to be cast out into space to Unicron and the story follows the movies lines.
I suspect Optimus would have found some way to stop Unicron or perhaps he might have led a unified defence of Cybertron ( Having beaten Galvatron in a one on one fight on the planet of Junk ) along side Shockwave only to fall before Unicrons power. HotRod would then be given the Matrix ( or finds it by Primes shattered body ) and destroys Unicron.
There is no reason to believe that Galvatron would have still been created. The only reason why Megatron was picked up by Soundwave when Starscream called the retreat was because Prime knocked him off the cliff.
If he just shot through Hot Rod and killed Megatron, he may not have fallen off the cliff. And if that is the case, I doubt that Optimus would let the Decepticons take him with them. Megatron probably would have been put into a prison or taken apart or physically destroyed.
But being the grand old guy that Prime is, he probably would have gotten a statue of Megatron put in the Decepticon Hall of Fame.
If he just shot through Hot Rod and killed Megatron, he may not have fallen off the cliff. And if that is the case, I doubt that Optimus would let the Decepticons take him with them. Megatron probably would have been put into a prison or taken apart or physically destroyed.
But being the grand old guy that Prime is, he probably would have gotten a statue of Megatron put in the Decepticon Hall of Fame.
QUOTE (Tripredacus @ Jan 10 2005, 01:52 PM)
There is no reason to believe that Galvatron would have still been created. The only reason why Megatron was picked up by Soundwave when Starscream called the retreat was because Prime knocked him off the cliff.
I know, i was just giving a suggestion for an "alternative" story, Megatron might have been blasted off the cliff but then he might not have, it's all in the air. Which makes this an interesting topic.
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Wow, I don't know how I would've reacted to this altered turn of events back in 86. Probably not at all because I only saw Tansformers the movie shortly after highschool after it was released on DVD. At the time my parents would've deemed this violent and uacceptable as was anything dealing with Transformers. Getting away from my lost childhood, and getting back to the movie I can see this being the kind of route a director like John Woo would take if he were in charge of the production back in 86. Optimus Prime would be fighting Megatron, Hot Rod would dart in between them and then we'd see a slow motion shot of Prime's eyes as they narrow and he takes the shot. Hot Rod would have that momentary WTF look on his face and then the ion blast tears through his upper body fatally wounding him. We see Megatron with this look on his face that goes well beyond WTF as the blast in front of his rips through Hot Rod hits him in the chest plate and knocks him backwards of the cliff. Megatron lands in a crumpled heap but though he is deeply wounded, and most of his chest plate is blown out the Decepticons take him with. Namely because he's not dead, and Soundwave is probably the most loyal to him. They retreat in Astrotrain and everything Decepticon carries on normally from there. Back on earth Hot Rod is down on the ground with Optimus beside him saying something about honour and the sacrifices that uphold it while the medics arrive.
Before I get to further ahead, as cool as it may sound for Prime to down one of his troops, the ramifications to follow are more so with the Autobots that the Decepticons. For one Optimus Prime didn't accomplish a whole lot by taking out one of his troops to stop Megatron. Sure he doesn't die but Megatron still becomes Galvatron, and Unicron becomes hell bent on destroying Cybertron. Also Prime is out a bot, and quite possibly the only bot who could open the Matrix of Leadership and destroy Unicron, and I'm sure the rest of the autobots are having some serious doubts about his leadership skills. I mean how are Bumblebee, and Spike/Danial going to ever be able to look at Prime the same again knowing he blatently fired into a fellow Autobot.
I can see Megatron firing directly through Starscream or any other Decepticon to gain the upper edge if the situation were reversed but I can't see Optimus Prime ever resorting to this even as a last resort. He'd sacrifice himself as he did in the movie but never a fellow autobot.
Now that I've logically unravelled the fun in this thread Don't fret because I for one think this is a cool alteration and would be interested to know where the story would go if said events did take place.
Before I get to further ahead, as cool as it may sound for Prime to down one of his troops, the ramifications to follow are more so with the Autobots that the Decepticons. For one Optimus Prime didn't accomplish a whole lot by taking out one of his troops to stop Megatron. Sure he doesn't die but Megatron still becomes Galvatron, and Unicron becomes hell bent on destroying Cybertron. Also Prime is out a bot, and quite possibly the only bot who could open the Matrix of Leadership and destroy Unicron, and I'm sure the rest of the autobots are having some serious doubts about his leadership skills. I mean how are Bumblebee, and Spike/Danial going to ever be able to look at Prime the same again knowing he blatently fired into a fellow Autobot.
I can see Megatron firing directly through Starscream or any other Decepticon to gain the upper edge if the situation were reversed but I can't see Optimus Prime ever resorting to this even as a last resort. He'd sacrifice himself as he did in the movie but never a fellow autobot.
Now that I've logically unravelled the fun in this thread Don't fret because I for one think this is a cool alteration and would be interested to know where the story would go if said events did take place.
Ok SG...here's my take on it:
I would have probably stopped liking Prime as a kid if he killed another Autobot in such a manner. Just a straight shot and destroying Hot Rod, who up til that point I really liked. Yup, I would have quit liking Prime.
I don't think Prime would have been so depressed at all if he shot Hot Rod just like you described. I mean he would have completely forfeited his code of honor and Hot Rod's life all in one shot (pun not-intended). This would have been a conscious decision to take out Megatron "No matter the cost." So I think he would have dealt with it as a choice to try to end the war, sure it would have bothered him and others, but at the same time I believe it would have solidfied him to others as a true leader, making one of the toughtest choices in history.
Then he would have had a major battle with Galvatron at Autobot City when the 'Cons attacked again during the rebuilding of the city. This would have been a fight Prime would have been hard-pressed to win, seeing as how Galvatron would be newly-empowered by Unicron. Honestly I believe Prime would have lost it. Then Galvatron would have taken the Matrix at that point and headed back to Unicron. This would have made the Autobots chase them to Unicron/Cybertron.
Then during the trip, chasing the 'Cons they get shot down to Junk. Galvatron kills Magnus and buries the rest of the 'Bots.
From there I'm not sure, but I believe thats how it would have went down for the most part.
I would have probably stopped liking Prime as a kid if he killed another Autobot in such a manner. Just a straight shot and destroying Hot Rod, who up til that point I really liked. Yup, I would have quit liking Prime.
I don't think Prime would have been so depressed at all if he shot Hot Rod just like you described. I mean he would have completely forfeited his code of honor and Hot Rod's life all in one shot (pun not-intended). This would have been a conscious decision to take out Megatron "No matter the cost." So I think he would have dealt with it as a choice to try to end the war, sure it would have bothered him and others, but at the same time I believe it would have solidfied him to others as a true leader, making one of the toughtest choices in history.
Then he would have had a major battle with Galvatron at Autobot City when the 'Cons attacked again during the rebuilding of the city. This would have been a fight Prime would have been hard-pressed to win, seeing as how Galvatron would be newly-empowered by Unicron. Honestly I believe Prime would have lost it. Then Galvatron would have taken the Matrix at that point and headed back to Unicron. This would have made the Autobots chase them to Unicron/Cybertron.
Then during the trip, chasing the 'Cons they get shot down to Junk. Galvatron kills Magnus and buries the rest of the 'Bots.
From there I'm not sure, but I believe thats how it would have went down for the most part.
I think the story could have been very different. (I know the thread is more about what I would feel if Prime murdered Hot Rod, but I don't have an answer to that right now)
1. Could the Matrix be opened by Optimus Prime?
The answer to this is yes, simply because he does do it later on to stop the Hate Virus.
2. Could Hot Rod have been reformatted by Unicron?
Let's say Optimus shot both Hot Rod and Megatron and both fell over the cliff. If Hot Rod was still alive, the decepticons would have grabbed him to be a prisoner/bargaining chip. Then when Astrotrain needed weight dumped they would definitely toss an Autobot out first. He would have floated through space with Megatron til Unicron reformated them all. This would have made an end battle even more dramatic if Optimus had to stop a reformated Hot Rod.
3. Would Unicron have even come to Cybertron?
The first time we see Unicron interested in what is going on in the rest of the movie is when Hot Rod catches the Matrix and it gets glowy. Did Unicron even know the Matrix existed before then? If Magnus had caught it and it hadn't glowed, would Unicron have even known? If not then he would have possibly just kept going in whatever direction he was moving in without caring about Cybertron.
1. Could the Matrix be opened by Optimus Prime?
The answer to this is yes, simply because he does do it later on to stop the Hate Virus.
2. Could Hot Rod have been reformatted by Unicron?
Let's say Optimus shot both Hot Rod and Megatron and both fell over the cliff. If Hot Rod was still alive, the decepticons would have grabbed him to be a prisoner/bargaining chip. Then when Astrotrain needed weight dumped they would definitely toss an Autobot out first. He would have floated through space with Megatron til Unicron reformated them all. This would have made an end battle even more dramatic if Optimus had to stop a reformated Hot Rod.
3. Would Unicron have even come to Cybertron?
The first time we see Unicron interested in what is going on in the rest of the movie is when Hot Rod catches the Matrix and it gets glowy. Did Unicron even know the Matrix existed before then? If Magnus had caught it and it hadn't glowed, would Unicron have even known? If not then he would have possibly just kept going in whatever direction he was moving in without caring about Cybertron.
Prime would be overcome with self doubt, as a leader and an autobot. I would see him going into self seclusion, even GIVING the Matrix to UM. Galvatron would still have been created, but now with a real mad on for Prime.
Prime would depart in a shuttle and there would be a huge send off from the surviving autobots and all saying they would be missing him, save Daniel shouting good riddance! Prime is shown saying he must go accecpt judgment for his crimes
Galvatron and company do their thing with sheistering SS and taking comand, then launching an attack on the Autobots, screaming for Prime. UM challenges him saying he is the Prime. They fight, UM gets whooped again, matrix torn from chest yadda yadda...
With the UM gone, they need OP back, so the survivors go hunting for him, with reluctant daniel.
They get attacked and split up...some to Junk and they do the whole musical number, the other to Quintessa. There captured and imprisoned they meet the lithomech and see his fate...and then they see Prime imprisoned as well. Though it turns out he went there on purpose! They try to speak out for Op when he is before the Imperial Magistrate..and they get tossed to the sharkticons. Prime exclaimes that he won't have anyone else die in his name and goes all baddass. Needless to say they escape and meet up with the other ship as Unicron attackes cybertron. Since this is MY rewrite, I'll show shockwave leading the attack consisting of seekers and combining teams, giving a sweet short speach, trasnforming with the teams combining, and having Devestator use him. (he will survive mind you). Unicron of course starts taking names and laying waste. When he claws cybertron, you see reflector, the insecticons and dirge biting it.
Finally Prime arives and personally rushes Unicron...and is swallowed. Inside he encounters the Sweeps who were with Galvatron when Unicron took them in. The Junkions ship also attacks and goes into the eye. now UM goes out all baddass. Arcee and Daniel go save his dad, bumble bee, jazz and bumper...
UM meets up with OP and they shake hands. Nice lil speech about never giving up and such and finally Prime says "let's transform" with UM finishing "and roll out!". The two trucks go barreling through the Sweeps kind of like the begining battle of the movie. Finally they meet Galvatron and he goes homicidal when he sees prime. eventually though Galv. grabs magnus like he did hot rod. Prime hesitates. UM tells him he needs to do it, be a leader! Prime take the shot and blasts through UM. Galvatron is shocked and Prime launches himself. They fight but you still see UM starting to move. Galvatron gets the upper hand and is about to blast prime when he is shot. UM is now standing san armor like in the dream wave comic. Galvatron goes nuts screaming TWO PRIMES? and then Op graps the matrix, does the whole light our darkest hour and the rest is filler
hmm...ok, who ever turns this into a fan fic, just give me credit.
Prime would depart in a shuttle and there would be a huge send off from the surviving autobots and all saying they would be missing him, save Daniel shouting good riddance! Prime is shown saying he must go accecpt judgment for his crimes
Galvatron and company do their thing with sheistering SS and taking comand, then launching an attack on the Autobots, screaming for Prime. UM challenges him saying he is the Prime. They fight, UM gets whooped again, matrix torn from chest yadda yadda...
With the UM gone, they need OP back, so the survivors go hunting for him, with reluctant daniel.
They get attacked and split up...some to Junk and they do the whole musical number, the other to Quintessa. There captured and imprisoned they meet the lithomech and see his fate...and then they see Prime imprisoned as well. Though it turns out he went there on purpose! They try to speak out for Op when he is before the Imperial Magistrate..and they get tossed to the sharkticons. Prime exclaimes that he won't have anyone else die in his name and goes all baddass. Needless to say they escape and meet up with the other ship as Unicron attackes cybertron. Since this is MY rewrite, I'll show shockwave leading the attack consisting of seekers and combining teams, giving a sweet short speach, trasnforming with the teams combining, and having Devestator use him. (he will survive mind you). Unicron of course starts taking names and laying waste. When he claws cybertron, you see reflector, the insecticons and dirge biting it.
Finally Prime arives and personally rushes Unicron...and is swallowed. Inside he encounters the Sweeps who were with Galvatron when Unicron took them in. The Junkions ship also attacks and goes into the eye. now UM goes out all baddass. Arcee and Daniel go save his dad, bumble bee, jazz and bumper...
UM meets up with OP and they shake hands. Nice lil speech about never giving up and such and finally Prime says "let's transform" with UM finishing "and roll out!". The two trucks go barreling through the Sweeps kind of like the begining battle of the movie. Finally they meet Galvatron and he goes homicidal when he sees prime. eventually though Galv. grabs magnus like he did hot rod. Prime hesitates. UM tells him he needs to do it, be a leader! Prime take the shot and blasts through UM. Galvatron is shocked and Prime launches himself. They fight but you still see UM starting to move. Galvatron gets the upper hand and is about to blast prime when he is shot. UM is now standing san armor like in the dream wave comic. Galvatron goes nuts screaming TWO PRIMES? and then Op graps the matrix, does the whole light our darkest hour and the rest is filler
hmm...ok, who ever turns this into a fan fic, just give me credit.
QUOTE (Starscreamer @ Jan 10 2005, 06:00 PM)
Prime would be overcome with self doubt, as a leader and an autobot. I would see him going into self seclusion, even GIVING the Matrix to UM. Galvatron would still have been created, but now with a real mad on for Prime.
Prime would depart in a shuttle and there would be a huge send off from the surviving autobots and all saying they would be missing him, save Daniel shouting good riddance! Prime is shown saying he must go accecpt judgment for his crimes
Galvatron and company do their thing with sheistering SS and taking comand, then launching an attack on the Autobots, screaming for Prime. UM challenges him saying he is the Prime. They fight, UM gets whooped again, matrix torn from chest yadda yadda...
With the UM gone, they need OP back, so the survivors go hunting for him, with reluctant daniel.
They get attacked and split up...some to Junk and they do the whole musical number, the other to Quintessa. There captured and imprisoned they meet the lithomech and see his fate...and then they see Prime imprisoned as well. Though it turns out he went there on purpose! They try to speak out for Op when he is before the Imperial Magistrate..and they get tossed to the sharkticons. Prime exclaimes that he won't have anyone else die in his name and goes all baddass. Needless to say they escape and meet up with the other ship as Unicron attackes cybertron. Since this is MY rewrite, I'll show shockwave leading the attack consisting of seekers and combining teams, giving a sweet short speach, trasnforming with the teams combining, and having Devestator use him. (he will survive mind you). Unicron of course starts taking names and laying waste. When he claws cybertron, you see reflector, the insecticons and dirge biting it.
Finally Prime arives and personally rushes Unicron...and is swallowed. Inside he encounters the Sweeps who were with Galvatron when Unicron took them in. The Junkions ship also attacks and goes into the eye. now UM goes out all baddass. Arcee and Daniel go save his dad, bumble bee, jazz and bumper...
UM meets up with OP and they shake hands. Nice lil speech about never giving up and such and finally Prime says "let's transform" with UM finishing "and roll out!". The two trucks go barreling through the Sweeps kind of like the begining battle of the movie. Finally they meet Galvatron and he goes homicidal when he sees prime. eventually though Galv. grabs magnus like he did hot rod. Prime hesitates. UM tells him he needs to do it, be a leader! Prime take the shot and blasts through UM. Galvatron is shocked and Prime launches himself. They fight but you still see UM starting to move. Galvatron gets the upper hand and is about to blast prime when he is shot. UM is now standing san armor like in the dream wave comic. Galvatron goes nuts screaming TWO PRIMES? and then Op graps the matrix, does the whole light our darkest hour and the rest is filler
hmm...ok, who ever turns this into a fan fic, just give me credit.
Prime would depart in a shuttle and there would be a huge send off from the surviving autobots and all saying they would be missing him, save Daniel shouting good riddance! Prime is shown saying he must go accecpt judgment for his crimes
Galvatron and company do their thing with sheistering SS and taking comand, then launching an attack on the Autobots, screaming for Prime. UM challenges him saying he is the Prime. They fight, UM gets whooped again, matrix torn from chest yadda yadda...
With the UM gone, they need OP back, so the survivors go hunting for him, with reluctant daniel.
They get attacked and split up...some to Junk and they do the whole musical number, the other to Quintessa. There captured and imprisoned they meet the lithomech and see his fate...and then they see Prime imprisoned as well. Though it turns out he went there on purpose! They try to speak out for Op when he is before the Imperial Magistrate..and they get tossed to the sharkticons. Prime exclaimes that he won't have anyone else die in his name and goes all baddass. Needless to say they escape and meet up with the other ship as Unicron attackes cybertron. Since this is MY rewrite, I'll show shockwave leading the attack consisting of seekers and combining teams, giving a sweet short speach, trasnforming with the teams combining, and having Devestator use him. (he will survive mind you). Unicron of course starts taking names and laying waste. When he claws cybertron, you see reflector, the insecticons and dirge biting it.
Finally Prime arives and personally rushes Unicron...and is swallowed. Inside he encounters the Sweeps who were with Galvatron when Unicron took them in. The Junkions ship also attacks and goes into the eye. now UM goes out all baddass. Arcee and Daniel go save his dad, bumble bee, jazz and bumper...
UM meets up with OP and they shake hands. Nice lil speech about never giving up and such and finally Prime says "let's transform" with UM finishing "and roll out!". The two trucks go barreling through the Sweeps kind of like the begining battle of the movie. Finally they meet Galvatron and he goes homicidal when he sees prime. eventually though Galv. grabs magnus like he did hot rod. Prime hesitates. UM tells him he needs to do it, be a leader! Prime take the shot and blasts through UM. Galvatron is shocked and Prime launches himself. They fight but you still see UM starting to move. Galvatron gets the upper hand and is about to blast prime when he is shot. UM is now standing san armor like in the dream wave comic. Galvatron goes nuts screaming TWO PRIMES? and then Op graps the matrix, does the whole light our darkest hour and the rest is filler
hmm...ok, who ever turns this into a fan fic, just give me credit.
BEST REWRITE EVAR!!!!!!
Omg, thats how the movie should have been done, but some way hotrod should live in the end. I mean we have seen some bots get blown up and still come back...
Well... if Optimus Prime was such a good shot, why didn't he just 2-hand the gun and headshot Megatron? Also, Megatron only has the gun on Hot Rod for a short amount of time before pointing it at Prime. If Optimus Prime had a brain, he would have shot at Megatron's gun, since even if it did go off, it wouldn't have hit Hot Rod.
QUOTE (Tripredacus @ Jan 10 2005, 04:16 PM)
Well... if Optimus Prime was such a good shot, why didn't he just 2-hand the gun and headshot Megatron? Also, Megatron only has the gun on Hot Rod for a short amount of time before pointing it at Prime. If Optimus Prime had a brain, he would have shot at Megatron's gun, since even if it did go off, it wouldn't have hit Hot Rod.
Well, the shock would completely stop him from taking that chance. And as for the headshot idea, you guys didn't have the ominous Counter-Strike voice saying "HEADSHOT!"
Yeah, don't ave much to say here. Oh and by the way, nice re-write Starscreamer.
QUOTE (SkywarpsGhost @ Jan 10 2005, 02:40 PM)
Would it have made for a more interesting turn of events (back in 1986) if INSTEAD of Optimus Prime not shooting Megatron when he's grappling with Hot Rod, Optimus Prime instead shoots STRAIGHT THROUGH Hot Rod and kills Megatron but also Hot Rod in the process!!
Yeh, sure you'll all say NOW that that would be friggin' great...
but back then, when we where small and Optimus Prime was our hero, how would we have taken it if he took another Autobots life? How would the movie have developed?
The remainder of plot elements stay intact I guess...
Unicron is still on a collision course with the Matrix...
Megatron gets formatted into Galvatron still...
Ultra Magnus is still a friggin' wimp...
But Optimus lives, and Rodimus dies...
Debate.
Yeh, sure you'll all say NOW that that would be friggin' great...
but back then, when we where small and Optimus Prime was our hero, how would we have taken it if he took another Autobots life? How would the movie have developed?
The remainder of plot elements stay intact I guess...
Unicron is still on a collision course with the Matrix...
Megatron gets formatted into Galvatron still...
Ultra Magnus is still a friggin' wimp...
But Optimus lives, and Rodimus dies...
Debate.
dude, that woulda been the best scene eva!!!
ya know....I think I WILL write this as a fan fic 
QUOTE (Starscreamer @ Jan 10 2005, 07:46 PM)
ya know....I think I WILL write this as a fan fic
I would like to see it.
ok, if hot rod had died instead of op, op would've been stripped of rank and the matrix and it would've been giving to somebody else, most likely um. I like the idea of hot rod and megs getting reformatted, and both hating op for what happens, i see them both going after op and the matrix and killing um like it did, but i think galv would've took it back to uni like in the movie, and then been swallowed, i think roddy would've then went in after galv for being a glory hog and wanting to take te matrix for himself, they would've fought just like in the movie and roddy would've got hold of the matrix transforming again, back to a bot, defeated galv and went from there, and probably let op off with a warning, since he was kinda scary as a leader, but i don't think he would've giving it back to op like he wound up doing in the roop1&2
QUOTE (X-BoB58 @ Jan 10 2005, 01:12 PM)
If the Matrix was not passed, if the next Prime did not rise, if Unicron was not stopped...
So Hot Rod can stop Unicron, but friggin' Optimus Prime can't? This has gone WAYYYYY to far!
The Hot Rod character is the archetype of the young, inexperienced, anxious, and eager youth who undergoes a coming-of-age experience and something of a trial by fire. Its the same as Luke Skywalker in Star Wars and Lt. Falcon in G.I. Joe: The Movie.
As we all know, in Star Wars Obi-Wan Kenobi died in battle and it was up to Luke to destroy the ultimate weapon and save the galaxy. Luke always dreamed of getting out of his one-horse (or in his case one-speeder) town and "looked away, to the future, to the horizon."* Adventure and excitement were his priority, until he was called upon to "rise from [the] ranks and... light [the heroes'] darkest hour."**
In G.I. Joe: The Movie - for those of you who kept up with that - Lt. Falcon was the previously unseen half-brother (what a coincidence!) of Duke (the leader) who joined G.I. Joe but really didn't take his responsibilites seriously. Because of Falcon's blundering Duke dies at the villian's hands, however it was rewritten so that he merely went into a coma. Falcon takes the reins after most of the team is captured and/or is battling a new major villian (sound familiar?), goes toe-to-toe with the baddie, and saves the day.
Personally, I think we could all live w/o Hot Rod, Hot Shot, Cheetor, Inferno, or whatever they're calling him nowadays.
Optimus Prime could have made the big decision of shooting around or through Hot Rod. I think the movie took itself seriously enough that this would not have been pushing the envelope too far. Megatron still falls and is reformatted. Optimus Prime then destroys Unicron. But would it have made as interesting a story? Would there have been that journey of the main character (Hot Rod) for us to follow along with and relate to? Probably not, at least not without some creative writing. It's a marketing tool for the storyline to pass from one "generation" to the next. Most spin-off's are created this way. Hasbro was not expecting the strong negative fan reaction to Prime's death, or he would have survived as Duke did in the G.I. Joe movie.
*Yoda, The Empire Strikes Back
**Optimus Prime, Transformers: The Movie
As we all know, in Star Wars Obi-Wan Kenobi died in battle and it was up to Luke to destroy the ultimate weapon and save the galaxy. Luke always dreamed of getting out of his one-horse (or in his case one-speeder) town and "looked away, to the future, to the horizon."* Adventure and excitement were his priority, until he was called upon to "rise from [the] ranks and... light [the heroes'] darkest hour."**
In G.I. Joe: The Movie - for those of you who kept up with that - Lt. Falcon was the previously unseen half-brother (what a coincidence!) of Duke (the leader) who joined G.I. Joe but really didn't take his responsibilites seriously. Because of Falcon's blundering Duke dies at the villian's hands, however it was rewritten so that he merely went into a coma. Falcon takes the reins after most of the team is captured and/or is battling a new major villian (sound familiar?), goes toe-to-toe with the baddie, and saves the day.
Personally, I think we could all live w/o Hot Rod, Hot Shot, Cheetor, Inferno, or whatever they're calling him nowadays.
Optimus Prime could have made the big decision of shooting around or through Hot Rod. I think the movie took itself seriously enough that this would not have been pushing the envelope too far. Megatron still falls and is reformatted. Optimus Prime then destroys Unicron. But would it have made as interesting a story? Would there have been that journey of the main character (Hot Rod) for us to follow along with and relate to? Probably not, at least not without some creative writing. It's a marketing tool for the storyline to pass from one "generation" to the next. Most spin-off's are created this way. Hasbro was not expecting the strong negative fan reaction to Prime's death, or he would have survived as Duke did in the G.I. Joe movie.
*Yoda, The Empire Strikes Back
**Optimus Prime, Transformers: The Movie
Very nice rewrite 'screamer. Would love to read the fanfic.
How would I feel if Prime shot through Hot Rod to kill Megatron?
Well, pretty good. Not that I hate Hot Rod, I just really disliked Prime. It wasn't until the movie and seeing Prime really go straight through the Decepticons like there's no tomorrow made me finally get some respect for Prime. OP willing to shoot a fellow Autobot for a good chance to take the most dangerous decepticon of all out, would only ellevate him to me. He would then be willing to take the hard route to victory.
As I said, seeing Prime in action during the movie really made me like him for the first time and seeing him as a capable leader. Prime refuding to take the shot because Hot Rod got (very partially) in the way, was a big downer.
BTW, as said before, Optimus is one of the best shots among the Autobots, so why didn't he take the shot. There was plenty of target area left for him. After all he "can burn a hole in the nosecone of a Decepticon jet fighter at a distance of 30 miles, aided by his outstanding visual acuity".
How would I feel if Prime shot through Hot Rod to kill Megatron?
Well, pretty good. Not that I hate Hot Rod, I just really disliked Prime. It wasn't until the movie and seeing Prime really go straight through the Decepticons like there's no tomorrow made me finally get some respect for Prime. OP willing to shoot a fellow Autobot for a good chance to take the most dangerous decepticon of all out, would only ellevate him to me. He would then be willing to take the hard route to victory.
As I said, seeing Prime in action during the movie really made me like him for the first time and seeing him as a capable leader. Prime refuding to take the shot because Hot Rod got (very partially) in the way, was a big downer.
BTW, as said before, Optimus is one of the best shots among the Autobots, so why didn't he take the shot. There was plenty of target area left for him. After all he "can burn a hole in the nosecone of a Decepticon jet fighter at a distance of 30 miles, aided by his outstanding visual acuity".
QUOTE (Starscreamer @ Jan 10 2005, 04:00 PM)
hmm...ok, who ever turns this into a fan fic, just give me credit.
yo i gotta admit - that would be uber-cool. kudos.
(also would add that other comment (i forget who posted it) with Megatron having a "well beyond WTF look on his face"... when i read that i was LOL. that woulda ruled.)
QUOTE (Rawhide @ Jan 10 2005, 11:38 PM)
Very nice rewrite 'screamer. Would love to read the fanfic.
How would I feel if Prime shot through Hot Rod to kill Megatron?
BTW, as said before, Optimus is one of the best shots among the Autobots, so why didn't he take the shot. There was plenty of target area left for him. After all he "can burn a hole in the nosecone of a Decepticon jet fighter at a distance of 30 miles, aided by his outstanding visual acuity".
How would I feel if Prime shot through Hot Rod to kill Megatron?
BTW, as said before, Optimus is one of the best shots among the Autobots, so why didn't he take the shot. There was plenty of target area left for him. After all he "can burn a hole in the nosecone of a Decepticon jet fighter at a distance of 30 miles, aided by his outstanding visual acuity".
yeah i agree with you (sharpshootin' OP). (hey that sounds like a hick-line of TFs... new this week, it's Sharpshootin' OP! complete with moonshine bucket and banjo of leadership.)
Optimus Prime...who can fry a ham sandwich from halfway around the world... couldn't've made that shot? Hell, he had no qualms shooting Spike's seat belts off of him when the tyke was headin' over the space bridge. and a ROBOT can be REPAIRED.
Optimus shooting Hot Rod? Talk about wrong. Just wrong.
Of course, you guys *do* realize that they originally weren't going to have Prime die in the movie, but they liked the plot structure of the GI Joe movie (which came first) and copied it for TF:TM.
That showdown with Prime and Megatron completely encapsulates both of their natures. Optimus Prime selflessly disregards his own safety for the sake of the Autobots ("Megatron must be stopped, no matter the cost") and allows himself to be shot, rather than potentially harm a fellow Autobot. Megatron fights dirty and will use anything (or anyone) at his disposal in order to destroy his enemy.
Remember that this was originally going to be the last hurrah for both characters. It was therefore fitting that the essence of their personalities come forward in this final conflict. IMO the Hot Rod thing served to dramatically underscore the differences between Megatron and Prime (as well as set Hot Rod up for later redemption). It needed to be there to "complete" the scene.
So the whole question of "should Prime have shot Hot Rod" totally misses the point. If he had shot him, it would have been a complete violation of everything Prime was, and what he stood for. Remember "freedom is the right of all sentient beings"? Remember all those times in the show when Prime wouldn't attack because humans could have been injured or killed (and he often had to tell the rest of the Autobots not to fight)? This is what it means to have principles. If they can be easily jettisoned when circumstances dictate it, then what's the point of having principles at all? More to the point, what's the difference between Prime and Megatron? There would be none.
Of course, you guys *do* realize that they originally weren't going to have Prime die in the movie, but they liked the plot structure of the GI Joe movie (which came first) and copied it for TF:TM.
That showdown with Prime and Megatron completely encapsulates both of their natures. Optimus Prime selflessly disregards his own safety for the sake of the Autobots ("Megatron must be stopped, no matter the cost") and allows himself to be shot, rather than potentially harm a fellow Autobot. Megatron fights dirty and will use anything (or anyone) at his disposal in order to destroy his enemy.
Remember that this was originally going to be the last hurrah for both characters. It was therefore fitting that the essence of their personalities come forward in this final conflict. IMO the Hot Rod thing served to dramatically underscore the differences between Megatron and Prime (as well as set Hot Rod up for later redemption). It needed to be there to "complete" the scene.
So the whole question of "should Prime have shot Hot Rod" totally misses the point. If he had shot him, it would have been a complete violation of everything Prime was, and what he stood for. Remember "freedom is the right of all sentient beings"? Remember all those times in the show when Prime wouldn't attack because humans could have been injured or killed (and he often had to tell the rest of the Autobots not to fight)? This is what it means to have principles. If they can be easily jettisoned when circumstances dictate it, then what's the point of having principles at all? More to the point, what's the difference between Prime and Megatron? There would be none.
...
QUOTE (SkywarpsGhost @ Jan 11 2005, 10:57 AM)
But that's the idea of the post...
What would happen.
Not, "should" it have happened.
The writers could have in just this ONE swift move have totally changed the character of Optimus Prime for the purposes of the story. They did afterall just wipe out a nice handful of G1 Season 1 cast just to emphisize that Megatron was waging war upon them.
Not to be tooooo drastic, but think of Austin Powers 2. At the begining with Elizabeth Hurley being a Fembot. The writers of Austin 2 just threw away all that Austin 1 tried to establish with building her character just because it furthered the plot of Austin 2 and introduced a new chick.
The writers of TFTM could have take Optimus Prime saying "No Matter What the Cost" in a TOTALLY different direction. They didn't. They chose for OP to stand his ground, stick to his character, and die a hero... but they didn't have to. This was Transformers THE MOVIE back in 1986. The new toy line was coming... OP and crew where going out of style (so they thought) they technically had the freedom to do anything they pleased with him. Thank goodness they didn't... but the idea of the thread is, at this turning point of the movie, what if they had??
What would happen.
Not, "should" it have happened.
The writers could have in just this ONE swift move have totally changed the character of Optimus Prime for the purposes of the story. They did afterall just wipe out a nice handful of G1 Season 1 cast just to emphisize that Megatron was waging war upon them.
Not to be tooooo drastic, but think of Austin Powers 2. At the begining with Elizabeth Hurley being a Fembot. The writers of Austin 2 just threw away all that Austin 1 tried to establish with building her character just because it furthered the plot of Austin 2 and introduced a new chick.
The writers of TFTM could have take Optimus Prime saying "No Matter What the Cost" in a TOTALLY different direction. They didn't. They chose for OP to stand his ground, stick to his character, and die a hero... but they didn't have to. This was Transformers THE MOVIE back in 1986. The new toy line was coming... OP and crew where going out of style (so they thought) they technically had the freedom to do anything they pleased with him. Thank goodness they didn't... but the idea of the thread is, at this turning point of the movie, what if they had??
All right then (given the fact that the fembot thing in AP 2 was teh lame)...
I guess it just depends how far you wanted to push the story. Is it not enough to kill off Optimus Prime? Try to imagine that for a moment as if it hadn't happened yet, and we were all still safely in Season 2 of G1. That in itself is a big shock. I mean, you don't kill Optimus Prime! That's like your dad dying or something. (If your dad was a 20-foot-tall robot that turned into a truck, that is...)
So then, instead of killing Prime, they would have him go all "morally ambivalent" like in Superman III or whatever...? I still have a hard time imagining the writers doing this. I mean, it would have been better for him to die a hero than to live in moral compromise. Remember that this was a kids' show in the 80's. Things were pretty clear-cut then. And you didn't have an anti-hero as the leader of the good guys (that would be the 90's). It's just so.... wrong to imagine Prime doing something like that.
I personally think that the outcry would have been even greater if they had made Prime shoot Hot Rod. Moms were upset about their kids' hero getting killed; imagine if their kids' hero saved his own ass by taking down one of his own men. I mean, that is SO very "WTF" that I just don't imagine it ever happening, or working.
If optimus had shooteds on HR, G1 would still be around...
HOt rod Killed g1
HOt rod Killed g1
QUOTE (X- @ Jan 10 2005, 05:32 PM)
QUOTE (Tripredacus @ Jan 10 2005, 04:16 PM)
Well... if Optimus Prime was such a good shot, why didn't he just 2-hand the gun and headshot Megatron? Also, Megatron only has the gun on Hot Rod for a short amount of time before pointing it at Prime. If Optimus Prime had a brain, he would have shot at Megatron's gun, since even if it did go off, it wouldn't have hit Hot Rod.
Well, the shock would completely stop him from taking that chance. And as for the headshot idea, you guys didn't have the ominous Counter-Strike voice saying "HEADSHOT!"
Yeah, don't ave much to say here. Oh and by the way, nice re-write Starscreamer.
It was an Unreal Tournament voice!
But still. Prime could have shot through Hot Rod to get to Megatron. Then take them both into the City, and repair Hot Rod and not repair Megatron!
How about this? Why didn't Kup shoot Megatron or Hot Rod? He had a better angle (more of Megatron exposed to him) than Optimus had.
If Optimus had killed Hot Rod he would have doomed the universe. During the movie, only Hot Rod could open the matrix.
QUOTE (Starscream_X @ Jan 11 2005, 08:42 AM)
If Optimus had killed Hot Rod he would have doomed the universe. During the movie, only Hot Rod could open the matrix.
It was shown that Hot Rod could, but Ultra Magnus and Galvatron couldn't. That doesn't mean that only Hot Rod could.
QUOTE (Tripredacus @ Jan 11 2005, 11:51 AM)
QUOTE (Starscream_X @ Jan 11 2005, 08:42 AM)
If Optimus had killed Hot Rod he would have doomed the universe. During the movie, only Hot Rod could open the matrix.
It was shown that Hot Rod could, but Ultra Magnus and Galvatron couldn't. That doesn't mean that only Hot Rod could.
It had nothing to do with the bearer. The matrix "knew" when the darkest hour had come.
BTW Gaiares Hot Rod didn't kill G1, Prime's death killed G1. So did Akom. And a zillion other factors.
wow, ok but in the same instance, how come only hotrod tried to help prime fight? i mean come on it's just megs up there with all the movie bots, i mean op took out enough cons by himself that he could've taken a break and had help with megs, worse line of the movie to me Kup: stay out of it kid, that's Prime's fight! wtf? i remember as a kid thinking that's stupid, it's a war people get jumped in my neighborhood all the time, why are the other bots standing around watching, hey springer, kup, arcee..... ya'll killed op!!!!! with your ignorance and lack of action, atleast that punk kid hotrod had the 8@ll$ to try and help op against megs
QUOTE (redrum2581 @ Jan 11 2005, 01:45 PM)
wow, ok but in the same instance, how come only hotrod tried to help prime fight? i mean come on it's just megs up there with all the movie bots, i mean op took out enough cons by himself that he could've taken a break and had help with megs, worse line of the movie to me Kup: stay out of it kid, that's Prime's fight! wtf? i remember as a kid thinking that's stupid, it's a war people get jumped in my neighborhood all the time, why are the other bots standing around watching, hey springer, kup, arcee..... ya'll killed op!!!!! with your ignorance and lack of action, atleast that punk kid hotrod had the 8@ll$ to try and help op against megs
It was actually even a worse line than that b/c of the writers' insistence that Kup refer to Hot Rod as "lad". "Lad"?? Who the hell says "lad"? (Maybe Kup's just so old that he has to use English slang that's like 300 years out of date.)
All I can think of when I hear that word is the Rankin-Bass Hobbit cartoon.
Down, down to goblin-town / You go, my lad! Ho, ho, my lad! ...you may now return to your discussion.
QUOTE (Optimal Madhammer @ Jan 11 2005, 09:31 AM)
BTW Gaiares Hot Rod didn't kill G1, Prime's death killed G1. So did Akom. And a zillion other factors.
You are both wrong. Rebirth killed G1.
QUOTE (Tripredacus @ Jan 11 2005, 02:05 PM)
QUOTE (Optimal Madhammer @ Jan 11 2005, 09:31 AM)
BTW Gaiares Hot Rod didn't kill G1, Prime's death killed G1. So did Akom. And a zillion other factors.
You are both wrong. Rebirth killed G1.
Well, "duh" comes to mind, since that *was* the last G1 episode in America. I think what we were talking about is, what was the turning point for the show that precipitated its downward spiral.
Don’t think it really matters IF Prime did. Hotrod never wanted to be the leader and IMO never fully matured for the role. I still believe he could’ve done the job but he had a damn Hamlet problem, constantly doubting himself… it was really annoying. Prime overall is the consummate leader in all respects and even if he didn’t want to lead, he shouldered the burden well. Almost every respected him and knew he was fair and wise, I don’t think the same could be said about Rodimus.
QUOTE (Fortress_Maximus @ Jan 11 2005, 02:22 PM)
Don’t think it really matters IF Prime did. Hotrod never wanted to be the leader and IMO never fully matured for the role. I still believe he could’ve done the job but he had a damn Hamlet problem, constantly doubting himself… it was really annoying. Prime overall is the consummate leader in all respects and even if he didn’t want to lead, he shouldered the burden well. Almost every respected him and knew he was fair and wise, I don’t think the same could be said about Rodimus.
Stupid Season 3.
As far as I'm concerned, G1 ended with TF:TM.
...
QUOTE (SkywarpsGhost @ Jan 11 2005, 03:17 PM)
dude, 85% of the time I really want to agree with that one...
It actually makes continuity with Beast Wars a lot easier.
...
QUOTE (SkywarpsGhost @ Jan 11 2005, 03:24 PM)
I have yet to see Beast Wars... my brother wants to EVENTUALLY buy the DVDs... I will heed your word though.
BW is the best American or brought-to-America TF show, period. (I have a personal love for BM but I know many others don't share that.) You will be converted, I guarantee it.
QUOTE (Optimal Madhammer @ Jan 11 2005, 08:42 AM)
and what he stood for. Remember "freedom is the right of all sentient beings"?
sept Nightbird
...
QUOTE (X-BoB58 @ Jan 11 2005, 03:37 PM)
QUOTE (Optimal Madhammer @ Jan 11 2005, 08:42 AM)
and what he stood for. Remember "freedom is the right of all sentient beings"?
sept Nightbird
*hammers Xbob into INTERNET oblivion*
"Enter the Nightbird"... huh huh... huh huh... huh huh...
Actually, the main reason I hate that episode (besides the whole premise) is because the writer actually used the word "robotopossum". GAAAHH!!!
Well, hypathetically since Hot Rod was a new character, and since I didn't really 'know him' .. it would be like watching someone die you don't really know or care about. Meh.
QUOTE (Galzamus Primeblade @ Jan 11 2005, 05:06 PM)
Well, hypathetically since Hot Rod was a new character, and since I didn't really 'know him' .. it would be like watching someone die you don't really know or care about. Meh.
The point isn't that we'd be sad about Hot Rod. The point is that shooting Hot Rod, even accidentally, would have been totally out of character for Optimus. He would never have taken a chance like that.
Not to mention that it would have been a really stupid way to market that new "Hot Rod" toy.
QUOTE (SkywarpsGhost @ Jan 11 2005, 12:44 PM)
Converted...
This sounds like the kinda thing I lay wagers on.
I'll let you know when they become available to me, and I'll keep that information posted. My hopes are high for them... but my hatred for Beast Wars during its first go round (I was VERY close minded then, I even hated G2... I was one of those kids that was REALLY ticked off G1 got taken off the air and had a huge grudge against all non G1 Transformers for quite the while) is strong. I'll keep an open mind, and rest assured, amany new topics shall flow when I absorb this series.
This sounds like the kinda thing I lay wagers on.
I'll let you know when they become available to me, and I'll keep that information posted. My hopes are high for them... but my hatred for Beast Wars during its first go round (I was VERY close minded then, I even hated G2... I was one of those kids that was REALLY ticked off G1 got taken off the air and had a huge grudge against all non G1 Transformers for quite the while) is strong. I'll keep an open mind, and rest assured, amany new topics shall flow when I absorb this series.
I remember when I was a kid, Transformers went off the air and was replaced by The Monkees. And then the Monkees got replaced with Knots Landing. I hate Knots Landing with a passion now.
QUOTE (Optimal Madhammer @ Jan 11 2005, 07:42 AM)
Optimus shooting Hot Rod? Talk about wrong. Just wrong.
Of course, you guys *do* realize that they originally weren't going to have Prime die in the movie, but they liked the plot structure of the GI Joe movie (which came first) and copied it for TF:TM.
That showdown with Prime and Megatron completely encapsulates both of their natures. Optimus Prime selflessly disregards his own safety for the sake of the Autobots ("Megatron must be stopped, no matter the cost") and allows himself to be shot, rather than potentially harm a fellow Autobot. Megatron fights dirty and will use anything (or anyone) at his disposal in order to destroy his enemy.
Remember that this was originally going to be the last hurrah for both characters. It was therefore fitting that the essence of their personalities come forward in this final conflict. IMO the Hot Rod thing served to dramatically underscore the differences between Megatron and Prime (as well as set Hot Rod up for later redemption). It needed to be there to "complete" the scene.
So the whole question of "should Prime have shot Hot Rod" totally misses the point. If he had shot him, it would have been a complete violation of everything Prime was, and what he stood for. Remember "freedom is the right of all sentient beings"? Remember all those times in the show when Prime wouldn't attack because humans could have been injured or killed (and he often had to tell the rest of the Autobots not to fight)? This is what it means to have principles. If they can be easily jettisoned when circumstances dictate it, then what's the point of having principles at all? More to the point, what's the difference between Prime and Megatron? There would be none.
Of course, you guys *do* realize that they originally weren't going to have Prime die in the movie, but they liked the plot structure of the GI Joe movie (which came first) and copied it for TF:TM.
That showdown with Prime and Megatron completely encapsulates both of their natures. Optimus Prime selflessly disregards his own safety for the sake of the Autobots ("Megatron must be stopped, no matter the cost") and allows himself to be shot, rather than potentially harm a fellow Autobot. Megatron fights dirty and will use anything (or anyone) at his disposal in order to destroy his enemy.
Remember that this was originally going to be the last hurrah for both characters. It was therefore fitting that the essence of their personalities come forward in this final conflict. IMO the Hot Rod thing served to dramatically underscore the differences between Megatron and Prime (as well as set Hot Rod up for later redemption). It needed to be there to "complete" the scene.
So the whole question of "should Prime have shot Hot Rod" totally misses the point. If he had shot him, it would have been a complete violation of everything Prime was, and what he stood for. Remember "freedom is the right of all sentient beings"? Remember all those times in the show when Prime wouldn't attack because humans could have been injured or killed (and he often had to tell the rest of the Autobots not to fight)? This is what it means to have principles. If they can be easily jettisoned when circumstances dictate it, then what's the point of having principles at all? More to the point, what's the difference between Prime and Megatron? There would be none.
The Prime/Megatron fight scene was written to be exacly what it was . . . OP defeating Megs "no matter the cost. " Like it or not, Transformers: The Movie is what it is. Take it or leave it. Or make your own!
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