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Lord Madhammer
Students Arrested for Cyber Bullying

We all know about high school bullying but have you heard of cyber-bullying? It's real and three Loranger High School students have been arrested for it. As WAFB's Marie Centanni reports, student bullying may have gone too far.

Investigators with the Attorney General's High-Tech Crimes Unit say the situation started when a 15-year-old female student created a website called "Loranger's biggest queer.com." The website featured pictures of a 14-year-old male student. He responded with his own web site, which investigators say included a list of students he called "The Preps," and poems so graphically violent, investigators say "they crossed the line."

Kris Wartelle with the Attorney General's Office said, "It sort of was like bullying on the Internet that got even worse, and we're lucky it didn't escalate to something even worse."

After seeing the boy's website, a concerned parent alerted the Tangipahoa Parish Sheriff's Office. The Attorney General's High Tech Crime Unit was contacted and began an immediate investigation. Authorities confiscated the student's computers.

Both students were arrested, as well as 18-year old Joseph Sanchez, who was charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor. Authorities say Sanchez helped the younger male set up and maintain his website. The pair called themselves the "8-Ballas," and targeted students they called "The Preps."

"When you have students making threats to other students or groups of students on the Internet, talking about killing someone or blowing up the school or shooting a certain group of people, when there's a feud like that and certain words are used," explains Wartelle, "That's when you worry about something escalating or becoming the next Columbine and these days you have to take threats seriously."

The school system is taking it seriously as well, and will decide Friday whether to expel the three students for the remainder of the school year. All of the students involved are honor students.

Cyber-stalking is a relative felony, which means a judge can decide if it is a misdemeanor of the more serious felony crime. It's punishable with a $2,000 fine or one year imprisonment.


Original story here.

optimuslaugh2.gif
Bizzmoff
*Cyber-stalks Madhammer* The 8-Ballas cliffjumper.gif Do they drink, play pool - what? This is just writing on bathroom walls taken to the next level thumbsdown.gif
Ultra Magnus
i cant even come up with any comments for that one...
Hot Rod
I'm callin' my lawyer
Guld
optimuslaugh2.gif What a age of technological wonder we live in.

Sticks and Stones may break my bones, but HTML will DESTROY ME!!!!
The Diesel
Only in Louisianna. optimuslaugh2.gif That state is such a sh*thole.
AutobotMaximal
Kids these days... so sad. No wonder I refuse to have one.
Cyber Bishop
QUOTE (The Diesel @ Jan 7 2005, 08:43 AM)
Only in Louisianna. optimuslaugh2.gif That state is such a sh*thole.

Excuse me?
DarkNarcoleptic
QUOTE (The Diesel @ Jan 7 2005, 10:43 AM)
Only in Louisianna. optimuslaugh2.gif That state is such a sh*thole.

We may be farther up on the totem pole, but eh, it's still not so high.
I mean, we're still better than Mississippi.
Lord Madhammer
QUOTE (Bizzmoff @ Jan 7 2005, 10:24 AM)
*Cyber-stalks Madhammer* The 8-Ballas cliffjumper.gif Do they drink, play pool - what? This is just writing on bathroom walls taken to the next level thumbsdown.gif

I suspect that they are related to the ICY HOT STUNTAZ.
Bizzmoff
QUOTE (DarkNarcoleptic @ Jan 7 2005, 12:47 PM)
QUOTE (The Diesel @ Jan 7 2005, 10:43 AM)
Only in Louisianna. optimuslaugh2.gif That state is such a sh*thole.

We may be farther up on the totem pole, but eh, it's still not so high.
I mean, we're still better than Mississippi.
Yeah, Mississippi is t eh suck. I live on the INTERNET.

QUOTE (Optimal Madhammer @ Jan 7 2005, 02:01 PM)
QUOTE (Bizzmoff @ Jan 7 2005, 10:24 AM)
*Cyber-stalks Madhammer* The 8-Ballas cliffjumper.gif  Do they drink, play pool - what? This is just writing on bathroom walls taken to the next level thumbsdown.gif
I suspect that they are related to the ICY HOT STUNTAZ.

The southern chapter thumbsdown.gif
THE STIG
8 ballahs lol....

anyways in my hood....... my friends brother was forced to close his xanga site for mentioning our old HS... apparantly you cant even mention the name, not even if its anything good. so when he opened a new site he did things INH style and switched the letter S with 5 and the HS bashing began.... (the stuff that happends in hs nowadays.. incredible)

about those kids that are makin web pages to hate on each other and getting their pc's taken away... teh lame...

edit: at least it ended without a shooting, stabbing or what have you...
Sangron
Hopefully Shadow ES doesn't read this or we all in some big shoot.
Not So Ultimate Megatron
I don't know what to say.....



...wait! yes i do, GET OVER IT!!!
Wildling
Anybody else think this anti-bullying crusade has gone just a bit overboard?

IMO bullies are somewhat necessary. They teach kids how to deal with problems. What's going to happen when all these kids that don't have to deal with bullies grow up and run into a disagreement with someone else? They won't know what to do and they'll get run over.

Yes, protect the kids from the seriously disturbed bullies. But not the normal 'you stink and your mom dresses you funny type'.

Just my opinion. Feel free to disagree.
Wikkid
QUOTE (Sangron @ Jan 7 2005, 12:41 PM)
Hopefully Shadow ES doesn't read this or we all in some big shoot.

Shadow nothin, how bout Sticky?

That guys gonna go postal on us one day in INH.
Wildling
QUOTE (Wikkid @ Jan 7 2005, 09:24 PM)
QUOTE (Sangron @ Jan 7 2005, 12:41 PM)
Hopefully Shadow ES doesn't read this or we all in some big shoot.

Shadow nothin, how bout Sticky?

That guys gonna go postal on us one day in INH.

Nah. Taz first.
Greensight
Oh, yea they had this on ABC during winter vaction. I say WTF?
JustLOKIPLVY
What a world we live in, WTF? When I was in Highschool I got emailed several times from some jerk who really didn't say anything explicity violent, though the terminology used to describe me was course enough. I never really saw this as bullying, I didn't know him, and I really didn't care what he thought. Deleted. In High school I could get past that but today children are literally raised on the internet, and are mouthing off at people and our probably younger than 12. (I only know this because I'm a Mod elsewhere) The whole internet feud betwen children, and the name calling/threats sounds silly, and adolesent but I can see why teachers/parents alike are concerned because when you delete an angry post by someone you think is an adult but later find out from Admin it was some lippy kid it's almost scary what they know and are capable of saying at there age. If a member coments about shooting another in the head even though it's non serious itt's taken very serious and immediately dealt with. Also a lot of what I've deleted goes well beyond the "You stink, your mother dresses you funny." and become more akin to NC-17 where they graphically tell you where to go, how to get there, and what to do when you get there.
In the end I see it this way. If forums don't tolerate this kind of behaviour then there is no reason why the schools should.
On a side note this is probably my most intelligent response/argument to date, eektf.gif Must......get ....back.....to ....I.......N......H .......board.........or..... all........is.......lost.............. puketf.gif
splendic
Because people made fun of me when I was younger (I started public school late), I grew a sense of humor, started weight training, and made an effort to relate to others better and be more social, and now I'm a better person. We gotta stop babying the youth. Poems about killing people are one thing...but making fun of other people really is human nature. It is a part of our nature to form groups and struggle for superiority, especially at that age...some just go too far, I didn't read the article, but it sounds like these kids may have been pushing the limit. The internet is far more publicly accessible than a bathroom stall. As long as violence isn't invloved, I say let it go.

BTW - 14-tear-olds saying terrible NC-17 things to eachother is suprising to who? You guys were all 14 and in HS once, right? The things I said to my friends...to my parents for chist's sake...sometimes went far beyonf NC-17...
Wildling
QUOTE (splendic @ Jan 8 2005, 12:15 AM)
Because people made fun of me when I was younger (I started public school late), I grew a sense of humor, started weight training, and made an effort to relate to others better and be more social, and now I'm a better person. We gotta stop babying the youth. Poems about killing people are one thing...but making fun of other people really is human nature. It is a part of our nature to form groups and struggle for superiority, especially at that age...some just go too far, I didn't read the article, but it sounds like these kids may have been pushing the limit. The internet is far more publicly accessible than a bathroom stall. As long as violence isn't invloved, I say let it go.

BTW - 14-tear-olds saying terrible NC-17 things to eachother is suprising to who? You guys were all 14 and in HS once, right? The things I said to my friends...to my parents for chist's sake...sometimes went far beyonf NC-17...

Exactly what I was trying to say. Thank you for having a real-life example. thumbsup1.gif
Taz-bot
I'm glad that I'm a 80's kid. This is a new one for me, I cant think of a word to fit this.
skullfire
QUOTE (Ultra Magnus @ Jan 7 2005, 07:25 AM)
i cant even come up with any comments for that one...

Well, I can!




There is actually a right and wrong in this incident.

What the girl did was morally wrong and was well diserving the retaliation.

These boys should not have even been bothered.

What the girl commited was slander.....Gay or not.....to call this poor kid the biggest queer was an attempt to harm him for whoever he is (if gay) or to defame him to just be mean (if straight).

What really bothers me is that in todays sue happy world the girl (and parents) could have ben sued for slander, and she commited a hate crime.

What the boys did for revenge is natural and should considered expected behavior.
So what isf what they said about preps is "crossing the line". This was no diffenrent then when I grew up in the 80's.

Trust me a creative young individual being bullied can come up with some pretty violent ideas about how handle the bully or "preep" in this case.

Skaters, artist's, goths and smart kids were always picked on (yeah I was one of them) and lord did we ever have an evil list torture.

But you know what, we never went through with it because we knew right from wrong. But man if the internet existed we would had so much fun scaring the crap out of these bullies.

so bring it back to reality here, this girl needed the crap scared out of her.

It is too bad that the authorities didn't look at what was the most important question of this whole event......


WHO THROUGH THE FIRST PUNCH?
splendic
QUOTE (skullfire @ Jan 8 2005, 10:22 PM)
QUOTE (Ultra Magnus @ Jan 7 2005, 07:25 AM)
i cant even come up with any comments for that one...

Well, I can!




There is actually a right and wrong in this incident.

What the girl did was morally wrong and was well diserving the retaliation.

These boys should not have even been bothered.

What the girl commited was slander.....Gay or not.....to call this poor kid the biggest queer was an attempt to harm him for whoever he is (if gay) or to defame him to just be mean (if straight).

What really bothers me is that in todays sue happy world the girl (and parents) could have ben sued for slander, and she commited a hate crime.

What the boys did for revenge is natural and should considered expected behavior.
So what isf what they said about preps is "crossing the line". This was no diffenrent then when I grew up in the 80's.

Trust me a creative young individual being bullied can come up with some pretty violent ideas about how handle the bully or "preep" in this case.

Skaters, artist's, goths and smart kids were always picked on (yeah I was one of them) and lord did we ever have an evil list torture.

But you know what, we never went through with it because we knew right from wrong. But man if the internet existed we would had so much fun scaring the crap out of these bullies.

so bring it back to reality here, this girl needed the crap scared out of her.

It is too bad that the authorities didn't look at what was the most important question of this whole event......


WHO THROUGH THE FIRST PUNCH?

Yeah, but slander (don't get me wrong, she was totally wrong for what she did) is a civil offense, and making death threats is a criminal offense. Both are wrong, and because they're all "kids" we say "Oh, wow. Stupid kids get over yourselves and grow up." With (possible) death threats being on the table, though, if these kids were just a couple years older we'd be reacting to the case a little differently.

So while the first girl is wrong and guilty of something, this isn't as simple as "who threw the first punch". Retaliatory action that would have been equal would have been putting her image online as the biggest slut ever, and the listing every guy/girl she had been known to make out with, or get it on with, or whatever (of course this would have backfired by making her the most popular girl in school bumblebeetounge.gif ).
THE STIG
edit:

how the heck? i posted in the wrong topic! *dont mind me* optimuslaugh2.gif
skullfire
QUOTE (splendic @ Jan 8 2005, 10:59 PM)
Yeah, but slander (don't get me wrong, she was totally wrong for what she did) is a civil offense, and making death threats is a criminal offense. Both are wrong, and because they're all "kids" we say "Oh, wow. Stupid kids get over yourselves and grow up." With (possible) death threats being on the table, though, if these kids were just a couple years older we'd be reacting to the case a little differently.

So while the first girl is wrong and guilty of something, this isn't as simple as "who threw the first punch". Retaliatory action that would have been equal would have been putting her image online as the biggest slut ever, and the listing every guy/girl she had been known to make out with, or get it on with, or whatever (of course this would have backfired by making her the most popular girl in school bumblebeetounge.gif ).

I understand your point but the reality is that the guy was a couple of years younger.

The thing that most people do not understand is the position that a straight guy is in when he is made fun of and called gay. The worst part of it is that this girl made a whole web site about it. Do you or anybody else have any idea what that does to a young kid or teenager?

Trust me, I know you and the rest of the authorities don't, which is a shame.

I went to middle school with a kid who was going through a nightmare every damn day because he was a little different. He hated sports, he was the only kid his age that took a serious interest in girls while in elementry school, he was a creative violen player (yeah he liked his violen lessons) and over all a sensitive and most importantly STRAIGHT guy.

But because of his more sensitive nature he was picked on, bullied, and sexually harased on a daily bases for the possibility of being gay. He was not a normal boy but he he was a good guy and did no wrong, well except for one thing wished day in and day out that all those popular kids met an end in some form or fashion. You name it he thought it up.

And yeah he one day finally stood up for himself and grabed one kid who took a swing at him and held him for a headlock for a good 20 mins or so.

You read it right 20 mins!

The attacker nearly passed out. It took three teachers (one of them a PE coach) to finally pull him off of the guy. Oh BTW will the kid was in this headlock he got to listen to how he will never live to make fun of my friend again.

Well, luckly we had a different set of rules back in the good old days. The PE coach stuck up for my buddy and didn't question the insident, not one bit. All the teachers and this coach knew this would happen one day and the guy who through the first punch got his butt kicked out of school for a week. My friend was sent to get some counseling. After a week that bully never returned ( he changed schools).

The bullies parents had a fit but there were too many people like me who reported that this kid as well as others were too cruel to this poor kid. School stood by and said that the kid was a bully and was just asking for it.

For a long time my friend never got messed with again. Why? well all those preps and popularity brats had a new name to attach to the already long list of names for this guy. But this name ment something different that gay or Punch.....it was psycho.

Didn't get him far with the chicks...but at least he didn't get messed with.....people being too afraid and such.

Now that guy went on to become a successful engineer and is married with one kid.

Now you guys have to understand something. My friend had not capability to kill anything, all he wanted was the nightmare to stop. When you get in a position like this you'll threaten anything to get it to end....whether it be the attacker or in a lot of cases yourself.

Now I stand by what I said before. What that girl did was wrong, psychologically abusive, and oh yeah forget slander, actually what she did was sexual harasment.

So what this girl got in return is what she diserved.

No that kid is not going to talk about how many boys or girls she kissed. He just wanted it to end. If a death threat will get that chicks attention then so be it. Now she's learned her lesson; don't mess with someone you don't understand.

You may all think how awlfull the death threats were but you have absolutly no idea what kids will do to someone they think is gay.......what my friend told me made me sick and then to see it in action don't get me started (I've seen a lot of fights), that's why I taught him the headlock trick.
splendic
QUOTE (skullfire @ Jan 9 2005, 03:27 AM)
QUOTE (splendic @ Jan 8 2005, 10:59 PM)

Yeah, but slander (don't get me wrong, she was totally wrong for what she did) is a civil offense, and making death threats is a criminal offense. Both are wrong, and because they're all "kids" we say "Oh, wow. Stupid kids get over yourselves and grow up." With (possible) death threats being on the table, though, if these kids were just a couple years older we'd be reacting to the case a little differently.

So while the first girl is wrong and guilty of something, this isn't as simple as "who threw the first punch". Retaliatory action that would have been equal would have been putting her image online as the biggest slut ever, and the listing every guy/girl she had been known to make out with, or get it on with, or whatever (of course this would have backfired by making her the most popular girl in school bumblebeetounge.gif ).

...You may all think how awlfull the death threats were but you have absolutly no idea what kids will do to someone they think is gay.......what my friend told me made me sick and then to see it in action don't get me started (I've seen a lot of fights), that's why I taught him the headlock trick.

Look, no offense seriously, but do you think you were the only person that knew somebody that was called gay or severely harrassed in all grades of school? We ALL do! That is a part of growing up everywhere.

I know a closeted gay kid who was so fraggin' made fun of in school that he shot himself in the face his senior year, and we all have similar stories. Just because I know somebody who actually died as a result of it, doesn't mean I know these situations better than you.

My brother had a lot of problems in school, and got pretty harrassed. He had some internet list going and his computer got confiscated by the police. I taught him to stand up for himself in verbal and physical manners, he did, made a concentrated effort to make other kids laugh with him, instead of other people (okay, maybe the teachers) and he didn't get bothered anymore.

That girl sexually harrassed the boy, fine, but death threats/serious violence are never acceptable, and if a kid can't deal with being made fun of in some other way than trying to choke someone else to death, or make death threats, than he is psycho, and is obviously not able to deal with the unfair nature and other dicks in life.

And if you read my earlier post, you'd see that I was picked on severely for awhile and so was my brother, so I know. My friend that killed himslef that was picked on...there was something wrong with him, too, and his family asnd friends didn't know how or bother to deal with that aspect of life. It wasn't only the harrasment that got to him.

I already agreed that the girl was wrong...really wrong, but you're making it sound like the extreme things that a few of the kids that get made fun of do in retaliation is okay, and it is not. (and really think about how many kids in school got made fun of a lot...how many of them tried to kill or seriously threatened their antogonizers?).
Optimus Thunderpants
QUOTE (Wildling @ Jan 7 2005, 05:13 PM)
Anybody else think this anti-bullying crusade has gone just a bit overboard?

IMO bullies are somewhat necessary.

I take it you weren't bullied then, friend. I was for most of my school life, and it made it hell. In the last two years of it it died down, but it made me a miserable, cynical loner, because bullying kinda made me turn my back on most people, because most of them were spiteful wretches.

Kids need a good dose of reality, that much is true. But bullying isn't the way.
JustLOKIPLVY
QUOTE (Optimus Thunderpants @ Jan 9 2005, 11:08 AM)
QUOTE (Wildling @ Jan 7 2005, 05:13 PM)
Anybody else think this anti-bullying crusade has gone just a bit overboard? 

IMO bullies are somewhat necessary.

I take it you weren't bullied then, friend. I was for most of my school life, and it made it hell. In the last two years of it it died down, but it made me a miserable, cynical loner, because bullying kinda made me turn my back on most people, because most of them were spiteful wretches.

Kids need a good dose of reality, that much is true. But bullying isn't the way.

agree.gif There is no place in todays schools or society as a whole for bullys. The really sad part of it is most teachers/adults won't adress it properly and only narrow it down to who threw the first punch despite who's to balme. Growing up in the 80's this was the same senario every other day. It didn't matter what the kid said, the teachers wouldn't even notice until the fists started to fly. In most cases I was ussually the one in the Principals office for fighting/retaliation while the bully was in the washroom getting a busted lip patched up. This was elementry school for the most part, and I am relieved to say nothing escalated beyond a good fist fight, but with kids today it's gone well beyond that with the shootings and suicides. As horrible as this all is it's good to see teachers/adults taking this issue seriously before it does escalate into something past name calling, and fist fights. It shouldn't matter who throws the first puch because there are two sides to every story, and cause and effect. For someone to throw a well meaning punch in your direction or reverse something has to be said or done to impliment that reaction hence both parties are then at fault and have to be dealt with equally. Whenever I did end up having to face off against the principal, I had a pretty good idea of what had gotten me there, and that was fine. The only thing that pissed me off about the whole thing was I shouldn't have been the only one there despite how bad the the other kid was bleeding.
As most of you have said a person can take only so much before they retaliate, and if the teaching administration is only learning this now I'm not surprised the teaching administration is adressing this internet issue as severely as they are. Not to say it would escalate beyond Slander/death threats but there's a good chance it would have.
splendic
Bullying is going to hapen in some form every facet of our lives, for the rest of our lives whether it is the guy who cuts you in line at the grocery checkout, your rival at work who talks sh!t about you to get the promotion first, your girlfriend's father who think you're not good enough for his little princess, and the list goes on and on...It's never going to stop, anyplace, anytime. So learn to deal with it when your young, and learn to deal with it in a way that doesn't involve trying to or plotting to kill somebody.

There are extreme cases of harrassment, no doubt about it, and something needs to be done about those cases by an outside influence earlier than it always seems to be done, but bullying in general will never stop.

I have seen some kids get made fun of very lightly (in that way that everybody gets made fun of to some degree) that just couldn't take it, though. All they would have to do was talk to a parent, or a teacher, or one of their real friends about it and release their frustrations, but instead they close up, shun everybody and start doing things like making hit lists. Those kids got problems that aren't just caused by bullies, and we have to make a distinction between these two situations.
skullfire
QUOTE (splendic @ Jan 9 2005, 10:27 AM)
QUOTE (skullfire @ Jan 9 2005, 03:27 AM)
QUOTE (splendic @ Jan 8 2005, 10:59 PM)

Yeah, but slander (don't get me wrong, she was totally wrong for what she did) is a civil offense, and making death threats is a criminal offense. Both are wrong, and because they're all "kids" we say "Oh, wow. Stupid kids get over yourselves and grow up." With (possible) death threats being on the table, though, if these kids were just a couple years older we'd be reacting to the case a little differently.

So while the first girl is wrong and guilty of something, this isn't as simple as "who threw the first punch". Retaliatory action that would have been equal would have been putting her image online as the biggest slut ever, and the listing every guy/girl she had been known to make out with, or get it on with, or whatever (of course this would have backfired by making her the most popular girl in school bumblebeetounge.gif ).

...You may all think how awlfull the death threats were but you have absolutly no idea what kids will do to someone they think is gay.......what my friend told me made me sick and then to see it in action don't get me started (I've seen a lot of fights), that's why I taught him the headlock trick.

Look, no offense seriously, but do you think you were the only person that knew somebody that was called gay or severely harrassed in all grades of school? We ALL do! That is a part of growing up everywhere.

I know a closeted gay kid who was so fraggin' made fun of in school that he shot himself in the face his senior year, and we all have similar stories. Just because I know somebody who actually died as a result of it, doesn't mean I know these situations better than you.

My brother had a lot of problems in school, and got pretty harrassed. He had some internet list going and his computer got confiscated by the police. I taught him to stand up for himself in verbal and physical manners, he did, made a concentrated effort to make other kids laugh with him, instead of other people (okay, maybe the teachers) and he didn't get bothered anymore.

That girl sexually harrassed the boy, fine, but death threats/serious violence are never acceptable, and if a kid can't deal with being made fun of in some other way than trying to choke someone else to death, or make death threats, than he is psycho, and is obviously not able to deal with the unfair nature and other dicks in life.

And if you read my earlier post, you'd see that I was picked on severely for awhile and so was my brother, so I know. My friend that killed himslef that was picked on...there was something wrong with him, too, and his family asnd friends didn't know how or bother to deal with that aspect of life. It wasn't only the harrasment that got to him.

I already agreed that the girl was wrong...really wrong, but you're making it sound like the extreme things that a few of the kids that get made fun of do in retaliation is okay, and it is not. (and really think about how many kids in school got made fun of a lot...how many of them tried to kill or seriously threatened their antogonizers?).

Thanks Splendic,

Now we got some real reaction here!

I was almost starting to think that people were getting a little numb here.

And no, I truly don't think that I'm the only person who knew someone in school that got picked on and called gay. I made it sound that way so some one in here would open up and talk more about this from the picked on kids point of view.

Further more as I said before my old school friend is far from psycho.



I feel the problem here with this case is that the issue of the death threats........and who's making them.

If some one is making death threats to someone else who has done nothing wrong then we have a serious problem.

But with the kids case, this girl (and buddies) tortured this poor guy and you know he has told them to stop. These kids didn't stop........they kept on going and going and going all the way to the internet.

"Hey check it out you are the BIGGEST QUEER in school and we're going to let the Whole World Wide Web know about it!"

Yeah that was bright........

Death threats on the internet? Thats a kids fantasy about revenge he put on the web to scare the girl and her friends.

It was the loudest non-violent shouting of the word STOP he could come up with (as well as a cry for help).

Oh yeah the 2 key words here are NON VIOLENCE.

If this kid here had been a real psycho, he would not have put his threats on the net.
He would have esculated it to a more VIOLENT level.

This girl needs to quit crying and be glad she only abused a normal well adjusted boy. With what this girl did...she could have become a REAL victim in which case I would have felt bad for both the kid and her.

To the girls parents:

As with the parents (like this is going to reach them) I'm sorry you had to deal with the fact that you a have a real disturbed little girl. I'm not sure if better parenting would have helped...I truly greive for you. This girl needs some serious counseling.

To the boys parents:

Please understand that your boy was trying to make an end to a nightmare, that he was most likly embarassed to tell you about. He isn't psycho he has just been verdally sexually abused by some pretty sick kids. I advice you to get the best lawyer in town to make this a case of your boy trying to deffend himself non-violently. Also your kid is going to need counseling as well.

Well I know that this will get nowhere but I feel better writing it.

As you all might have guessed my sympathy is for the boy and I pray that the leagal system will see that it was the girls actions that caused this mess from the start.

In short if she was nice to the kid from the start we wouldn't be talking about this.
splendic
Dude...you're missing the whole point of my argument. You are assuming the intentions of the kid who got called gay, by comparing him to people you know who wouldn't have tried to kill someone (and by the way, we both know putting somebody in 20 minute headlock is basically trying to kill someone...and if that's what your buddy really did he was maladjusted at the time at least, and seriously needed help that he obviously wasn't getting).

In reality you have no idea what this kid or any other might have or might not have done. Point is, extreme violence or public threats of murder are unnacceptable. Period. I don't care what anybody thinks this kid was trying to do by making death threats online, he was wrong... criminally wrong.

Again, it doesn't make what that chick did right, it just means that you, nor anybody else can assume that these kids who lash back out extremely aren't going to do something like put soemone in a 20 minute headlock, or make a serious threat against their life, which is actually unwarranted. You can try to argue against that all you want, but you'd be wrong.

No offense intended, but I just don't think you're getting it. No matter the intent, threats of murder, or serious assault (not just a punch in the mouth), can't fly in any situation that wasn't first instigated with violence, and by that I mean immediate self-defense from a violent attack.
Wildling
QUOTE (Optimus Thunderpants @ Jan 9 2005, 02:08 PM)
QUOTE (Wildling @ Jan 7 2005, 05:13 PM)
Anybody else think this anti-bullying crusade has gone just a bit overboard? 

IMO bullies are somewhat necessary.

I take it you weren't bullied then, friend. I was for most of my school life, and it made it hell. In the last two years of it it died down, but it made me a miserable, cynical loner, because bullying kinda made me turn my back on most people, because most of them were spiteful wretches.

Kids need a good dose of reality, that much is true. But bullying isn't the way.

Actually, I was. Quite a bit.

But it all ended the day I finally got fed up and stood up for myself. Not with death threats, not with a knife or gun in the hallway, just me, the bully, and some shoving.

Everybody's experience is a bit different. You may very well have been picked on more than I was. Maybe not. Doesn't really matter. My point is that the things that these kids are labelled as bullies for aren't really things that should get kids labelled as disturbed. Most of the cases I've seen are normal teen angst amplified by the internet.

Remember, EVERYBODY feels picked on and out of place in high school. The ones that have access to a web page and vent their frustrations get called disturbed and sent to get psychiatric help that probably isn't necessary.

There are a few genuinely creepy and violent kids. But, just from reading that article, none of those kids fit that category. This is just a prank that got way out of control and somebody found out about it.
skullfire
QUOTE (splendic @ Jan 9 2005, 09:30 PM)
Dude...you're missing the whole point of my argument. You are assuming the intentions of the kid who got called gay, by comparing him to people you know who wouldn't have tried to kill someone (and by the way, we both know putting somebody in 20 minute headlock is basically trying to kill someone...and if that's what your buddy really did he was maladjusted at the time at least, and seriously needed help that he obviously wasn't getting).

In reality you have no idea what this kid or any other might have or might not have done. Point is, extreme violence or public threats of murder are unnacceptable. Period. I don't care what anybody thinks this kid was trying to do by making death threats online, he was wrong... criminally wrong.

Again, it doesn't make what that chick did right, it just means that you, nor anybody else can assume that these kids who lash back out extremely aren't going to do something like put soemone in a 20 minute headlock, or make a serious threat against their life, which is actually unwarranted. You can try to argue against that all you want, but you'd be wrong.

No offense intended, but I just don't think you're getting it. No matter the intent, threats of murder, or serious assault (not just a punch in the mouth), can't fly in any situation that wasn't first instigated with violence, and by that I mean immediate self-defense from a violent attack.

The point of my argument is that the authorities need to look at what caused him to make the death threats in the first place before considering him a criminal at any level.

Since this girl and her close friends have had a resonably long history of abuseing this kid where the climax was the "Queer" website authorities with some sense of understanding and compasion can logically rule out that the young man's death threats as being nothing but an immature attempt to scare the girl and here fellow colaberators.

There was significant proof that this girl ment harm. The kid on the other hand was just wanting it to stop.

So my interest in this subject is in the part where they arrested the kid, the actual victom in this case. To me that was flat out wrong!

All in all to me this is one of those cases where the law has been getting a little too happy about treating the underaged like adults. They are not adults........obviously we can see that in the case.

Utill they are 18 years old they are kids and should be treated accordingly.

As far as the 18 year old guy helping out the kid that is a different story. It would have been better if that guy could done something as a freind like take the "queer" site problem to the school or authorities or something. But that is a whole noter issue.
Cyber Bishop
[quote=Optimus Thunderpants,Jan 9 2005, 11:08 AM] [QUOTE=Wildling,Jan 7 2005, 05:13 PM]Kids need a good dose of reality, that much is true. But bullying isn't the way. [/quote]
Agreed. Granted I did learn to defend myself better from being bullied BUT sometimes it can go too far.
on the positve side as I said it made me take up Kickboxing and got me to start weightraining.
Smokescreen01
I know a kid who got bullied once because of his weight and being more sensitive than most guys. This occured in 6th grade... about 4 months into school he was afraid to go to school anymore. The doctors diagnosed him with depression and he was living off prozac for 4 years of his life. During the time he was bulled he did want to kill some these kids. It wasn't politically correct to like a skinny girl, or be slightly better at some sort of athletic ability than some muscular kid. He hated living. However, he endured and is now in 11th grade.

This kid is me. Honestly, I'm smurfing pissed about all these people yelling grow up to kids! I'm especially so sick of peope who think school is the easiest time in a persons life... guess what, have a reality check, IT'S NOT!!!!!!! Kids today have no morals, they'll steal what they can get and they're having kids just because they want to have sex thinking they'll be made into an adult then. Drugs exist everywhere.

Peer pressure is so big, but you adults obviously don't understand. No, to a lot of you high school is sooooo easy. Well guess what... along with drugs, social status, intelligence, and relationships it's not. Bullying is one of the biggest problems among high school kids today. I still endure it everyday because of my weight. Luckily, I grew out of it because I found a few true friends, but I still think bullying needs to be stopped because there is way too much other stuff a kid has to deal with.

Bullying can lead to suicide, I know. I used to have those thoughts and I know a kid who almost went through with it. You can't feel the same way about some girl that somebody else does or if she doesn't want you too. You can't be smarter than your average athlete or prep anymore(at least in my school). Drugs, sex, clothing, everything's about fitting in anymore. smurf BEING POLITICALLY CORRECT IN MY OPINION!!!!! So you know what, we need to stop bullying for all of that because I think it would make people better.

So for all you adults out there... GROW THE smurf UP!!!
splendic
QUOTE (Smokescreen01 @ Jan 10 2005, 07:57 AM)
I know a kid who got bullied once because of his weight and being more sensitive than most guys. This occured in 6th grade... about 4 months into school he was afraid to go to school anymore. The doctors diagnosed him with depression and he was living off prozac for 4 years of his life. During the time he was bulled he did want to kill some these kids. It wasn't politically correct to like a skinny girl, or be slightly better at some sort of athletic ability than some muscular kid. He hated living. However, he endured and is now in 11th grade.

This kid is me. Honestly, I'm smurfing pissed about all these people yelling grow up to kids! I'm especially so sick of peope who think school is the easiest time in a persons life... guess what, have a reality check, IT'S NOT!!!!!!! Kids today have no morals, they'll steal what they can get and they're having kids just because they want to have sex thinking they'll be made into an adult then. Drugs exist everywhere.

Peer pressure is so big, but you adults obviously don't understand. No, to a lot of you high school is sooooo easy. Well guess what... along with drugs, social status, intelligence, and relationships it's not. Bullying is one of the biggest problems among high school kids today. I still endure it everyday because of my weight. Luckily, I grew out of it because I found a few true friends, but I still think bullying needs to be stopped because there is way too much other stuff a kid has to deal with.

Bullying can lead to suicide, I know. I used to have those thoughts and I know a kid who almost went through with it. You can't feel the same way about some girl that somebody else does or if she doesn't want you too. You can't be smarter than your average athlete or prep anymore(at least in my school). Drugs, sex, clothing, everything's about fitting in anymore. smurf BEING POLITICALLY CORRECT IN MY OPINION!!!!! So you know what, we need to stop bullying for all of that because I think it would make people better.

So for all you adults out there... GROW THE smurf UP!!!

I'm not gonna lash out at you for being a little rude, but listen kid, You know when your parents ask you "What do you think I was born yesterday?"...Do you know what that means? Everybody here whose as old or older than you, lived through a school life where drugs, sex, bullying, suicide, fighting, depression, fitting in, relationships, racism etc...was going on and going strong. Those things haven't gotten worse. They're just more emphasized by the media, and as a result every parent now thinks they need to put their kid on drugs instead of slapping them in the mouth and dragging them to school like my mom did. I would argue that kids during the 60's and 70's had it way harder than any of us did (including you) because of all the social unrest a the time.

You know why parents say school is the easy time of your life? Cause it is. Just wait until your friends all move away to get real jobs and nobody calls no matter how many times they say "stay in touch", you have some dead end job where you hate your boss, you can't make rent/find a decent roomate, you have no way of meeting new people besides at work...so 0's going in the chick department, you have a sh*tty car, a long commute, your girlfriend gives you the "get hitched or get out speech", you accidentally knock a GF up an now you got a kid, etc...This and much much more is waiting for you in the real world. And this is assuming you live in Suburbia...be glad your not in an urban school where 3 out of 5 kids carry weapons and will kill you, or backwater hicksville where schools are almost still segregated and education is a joke...you'd be getting it ten times worse in either of those situations than you did then you are now.

Don't assume your the only one with problems and you had it harder than everybody else, cause you're not, and you didn't. Your ignorance as to the fact that adults all went through the same exact sh*t as you, and might actually know a thing or two when they say "toughen up cause is it's all downhill from here" know what they're talking about. It sounds like you need to
QUOTE
GROW THE smurf UP!!!
, and if you think school was bad, you ain't seen nothing yet.
Smokescreen01
Alright, sorry for lashing out. Understandable.

Oh, and by the way, I think hicksville is honestly criticized more than ever because I do love in an area considered a hicksville. Honestly, I like, so far, most of the teatching staff(although all 3 of my enligsh teachers and 2 of my 4 math teachers have sucked, and so did my one social studies teacher).

I understand you went through the same stuff. I just hate how people laugh such a thing up when it could lead to another deadly school shotting, etc.

Once again, sorry for lashing out.
Wildling
QUOTE (Smokescreen01 @ Jan 10 2005, 07:57 PM)
Alright, sorry for lashing out. Understandable.

Oh, and by the way, I think hicksville is honestly criticized more than ever because I do love in an area considered a hicksville. Honestly, I like, so far, most of the teatching staff(although all 3 of my enligsh teachers and 2 of my 4 math teachers have sucked, and so did my one social studies teacher).

I understand you went through the same stuff. I just hate how people laugh such a thing up when it could lead to another deadly school shotting, etc.

Once again, sorry for lashing out.

I think the important thing to realize is there's a difference between normal joking and picking on people, and the kids who ARE genuinely prone to shooting several classmates and teachers.

I kinda see it as similar to the age-old "_____ is turning our kids into vulgar violent thugs" argument. Now, _____ has been everything from rock music to video games to role-playing games. The thing nobody mentions is that, yes, one kid got the method of his outburst from a particular source, but the idea to do it was there already. If it hadn't been video games (like Doom or GTA) it could have been almost anything else.

Anyway, I'll stop before I get on too much of a tangent here .... bumblebeetounge.gif
Smokescreen01
I agree with that though... That is one thing I hate hearing, that video games are responsible for every tiny piece of violence that happens. There had to be some notion to try it there first.
splendic
I wanna leave this thread with one last bit of wisdom. Part of growing up is (hopefully) learning to put yourself in other people's shoes; to stop, take a breath and think about why it really is that somebody does or says the things they do.

Often times (not all the time, though) the kids who are picking on you, me, and the rest of us INTERNET buddies are being abused in some form away from school when you don't see it. Whether it be psychological, physcial, or sexual abuse in the home, in the past, or whatever.

A lot of times these kids are looking for attention, acceptance from others, or help, but they've been so screwed up already they don't know how to do it the right way. It's like the grown up version of the little boy who pulls the hair of the little girl he likes, but doesn't understand why.

It doesn't excuse their behavior by any means, but maybe it will help some of you, the victims of their abuse, to know that they don't just do it for fun all the time, no matter how much it seems that way. A lot of times these kids are trying to externalize the pain that they feel; that somebody inflicted on them before.

We are all human beings (even if it doesn't seem like it) and for somebody to act so strongly against another, usually something pretty terrible had to be done to them at some point. I could go into examples, but you all know what I'm talking about, and I'm sure you all know exceptions to the rule as well.
JustLOKIPLVY
QUOTE (Smokescreen01 @ Jan 10 2005, 05:14 PM)
I agree with that though... That is one thing I hate hearing, that video games are responsible for every tiny piece of violence that happens. There had to be some notion to try it there first.

Excellent idea for another thread. I'm currently debating the same issue some kid set up on an alternate forum and I think it would get a lot of attention here as to what the real issues in Society are.
As for this topic, it's basically debating whether bullying is acceptable or not. I for one don't have any toleration for a bully no matter what his reasons are. I also can't blame some of you for lashing out on the topic because dealing with a bully can be one of the most frustrating experiences in any young persons life. I just argued this also with a friend. My stand was elementry school, and juniour high is by the far the worst and people begin to grow up, and the bullying stops in high school. I mean that's how I found it anyway. How wrong I was, friend told me as did this thread Highschool is by far the worst for young people. I thought about this for a while. In my case things probably didn't feel as bad as junior high becacause I had completely shut off off socially from the rest of the world. Though I had made several good life long friends in the earlier years, there was no reason for me to have to acnknowledge anyone else. My thinking at this time was I know who I am, and I don't care what you think. I'm here to finish high school and that's it. I couldn't have been more miserable at this time, even after several short confrontations with known bullies/enemys it was quite evident I was through this treatment and wouldn't acknowledge it or be instigated into anything. Shortly following the rule bascally was they leave me alone, I leave them alone. I also made a conscious effort to avoid anything, and everyone that would keep me from my studies, and graduation. And forget popularity, and dating, as long as I kept the course high school was a breeze.
I am so glad I'm finished with school, life for me personally though complicated is all around easier. It may be harder for most, but an an adult I there's a certain respect that comes with that. Sure you have to work, and pay bills/taxes, and half the time I'm running on my last dollar with loans to pay, and money owned but this is an adult world now. I don't get bullied at work or threatened to be beat up in the parking lot after 4. I don't know what any of you adults do for a job, or what ethics are like but at my work station something as minor as cursing can warrant a week long suspension where as a fight wlii get you fired on the spot. I also realize with a job stress is involved, and deadlines neat to be met but for some of us who were tormented, and beat up repeatedly this is as good as it gets.
I believe if you can make it through Graduation you should be able to make it through anything shy of with the exception of the Marines. That's how I feel about iit. Feel free to agree or disagree. either is fine by me. (Also since highschool I've again grown a tolerence for society, so I'm no longer a recluse) thumbsup1.gif
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