[Hellscream85]

Goktimus Prime, on 26 April 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

Yeah, with many of these multiple component Transformers there's usually one "brain" unit which is the critical component.

As for the original Optimus Prime...
From his original tech specs:
"Splits into three autonomous modules: 1) Optimus Prime... the brain centre known as the Commander; 2) Roller, the Autobot scout car... a spy who operates up to 1931km away; and 3) Autobot Headquarters... the combat deck equipped with a versatile mechanic/artillery robot. Injury to one is felt by the other two."
From the G1 TFU profile:
"The Optimus module is the robotic sentient being that is the storehouse of his vast knowledge and strength."
"...the Optimus module is by far the most important component of the trio. Although he could survive without the other two, they could not survive without him."

Shadowpanther, on 25 April 2012 - 09:52 PM, said:

With combiners,If one or a few of them died or got extensive battle damage. they'll build newer individual combiner team members.

It is possible to still form a gestalt with a dead component, although the gestalt robot itself suffers from reduced physical attributes like speed, dexterity, mobility etc.

Shadowpanther, on 25 April 2012 - 09:52 PM, said:

or draft a existing transformer into their combiner group & re-design him to be a combiner. the main problem is the combining training he'd need to go thru & complete. also the newer combiner team members mind/spark & how he'd change the gestalt's mind/persona.

Some gestalt teams do have "spare" members who are already designed to combine with the team and can replace a member, e.g. Deathcobra.

Shadowpanther, on 25 April 2012 - 09:52 PM, said:

With the 1980's pretender. the inner robots can exist without the pretender shells. the pretender shells are just remote controlled suits of armor that protect & enhance the transformers fighting powers,strenght,height,bulk & fire power. the pretender shells are also their to disguise the transformer.

They also added personal reinforcements with their remote control. The downside is that any damage dealt to the shell is felt by its owner, but only even more intensely. Destroying the shell will make its owner pass out. As for disguise... this occurred more in Japanese continuity where the Pretenders are able to mass-shift and shrink themselves down to human size. In Anglophone continuity Pretenders never had this ability and so we rarely saw Pretenders using their shells as robots in disguise unless they happened to be on a world inhabited by giant humans (e.g. Femax, Pz'Zazz).

Shadowpanther, on 25 April 2012 - 09:52 PM, said:

as far as the duo-cons,duo-bots & trio-cons/bots goes. it's based on a individual circumstance. sky can do just fine without lynx & vice versa. if one dies,they just had to get different alt modes. the duocons & magmatron will die die or won't be able to combine,as it appears that have singular spark divided up into different components. tidalwave who's a trio Combiner got reformated into energon mirage when he got damaged. due to energon shockwave's bad leadership on that field mission in that energon cartoon episode.

I'd say it'd be much like Optimus Prime -- whichever component houses the "brain" would be the most pivotal... so my guess is the head component. So Battletrap could survive if the camper truck component were destroyed, but not if the helicopter were destroyed. Likewise Flywheels could survive as only the jet, but the tank would also perish if the jet were destroyed etc.

Sky Lynx is a trickier one because both components have heads and there's a lack of canonical evidence to suggest anything.

Shadowpanther, on 25 April 2012 - 09:52 PM, said:

As far as generation one Omega supreme goes. I'd say he'd die if one of his components got destroyed. because he's too old,ancient & rusty to handle any type of reformating or scanning a new alt mode & haing it work properly.

Old?? In the G1 comics Omega Supreme was constructed on Earth by Grapple - making him one of the younger Autobots. In the G1 cartoon he was created on Cybertron, but so were most Autobots and Decepticons. Was it because he was around before the war started? So were quite a few Transformers, including Optimus Prime (as Orion Pax). Also, the concept of "reformatting" or "transcanning" are new concepts that didn't exist in G1. Transformers were physically reconstructed to have new alt modes, such as when Auntie and Teletraan I rebuilt the occupants of the Ark. Either way, I don't see any canonical evidence that suggests that Omega Supreme couldn't handle being rebuilt with a new alt mode. He's not like say, Emirate Xaaron - where canon has explicitly stated that he has become physically unable to transform into his tank mode ever again (and attempting to do so may kill him.

I'd say that Omega Supreme can survive so long as his head's in tact. Destroy the rocket? He becomes an amputee, but hardly fatal. Unless you wanna tell me that destroying one of his little yellow clips is gonna kill him.

I don't think it was explicitly stated that Emirate Xaaron transformed into a tank, though I'm not against it. Most of Xaaron's body was modeled after Megatron's character model, though given that it was the 80's when this came out he literally could have had anything as his alternate mode, the only clue given is that his alternate mode would have been powerful enough to defeat Flame, and was some sort of assault vehicle, this doesn't leave out the possibility of an aircraft, or given his physical resemblance to Megatron, some sort of cannon, or gun. I've been debating this quite a bit myself recently since one of my future projects is an Emirate Xaaron custom, and I want him to have an alt mode.

[Goktimus Prime]

Tripredacus, on 26 April 2012 - 09:35 AM, said:

For some reason I would think that Omega Supreme's spark is in his chest aka Tank part. But the episode where they disconnect Omega Supreme's head to keep him alive while his body is repaired causes a problem here.

Most canonical evidence indicates that the head is the most vital component of a Transformer.
e.g.
+ When Shockwave nicked off with Optimus Prime's head, his body stood virtually lifeless inside the Ark while the head was still fully functional - able to interact with those around him and even pass on the energies of the Matrix to Buster Witwicky. Prime's body went rogue when the Decepticon-made false-head was attached to the body.
+ In the G1 ep where the Constructicons chopped up Prime's body, Prime's head was able to control parts of his body (once it was within range).
+ Terrorsaur's head seemed able to control his body in a similar (albeit more verbal) manner.
+ Waspinator's head once had to drag himself along by his tongue and rebuild himself.
+ In the G1 comics, the Autobot pre-Headmasters were effectively helpless once they removed their heads - an act of goodwill on the Autobots' behalf.
+ In the G1 cartoons when it was suggested that the Autobot pre-Headmasters should remove their heads, there was concern that their personas would perish, so Brainstorm told them to download their personalities into their tech specs meters^secondary memory modules in their chests! Allowing the Autobots to function autonomously without their heads which were then rebuilt into transformable head-armour for the Nebulans/humans.
+ In Animated once Henry Masterson (aka The Headmaster) removed a Transformer's head, he was able to assume full control of the body, while the head continued to function fine on its own.
+ Animated Starscream existed as a disembodied head for a while.
+ ROTF: Optimus Prime vs. Demolishor
+ ROTF: Optimus Prime vs. The Fallen ("Give me your face!")
+ DOTM: Optimus Prime vs. Sentinel Prime ("You betrayed yourself.")
...etc.

I guess in simple terms you can think of the chest-spark as a "heart" and the head containing the "brain" (cerebral circuits) -- cos evidently taking out the chest-spark is fatal too (e.g. TF1 Megatron, ROTF Optimus Prime etc.) - but it seems that the head is more important.

Hellscream85, on 26 April 2012 - 01:11 PM, said:

I don't think it was explicitly stated that Emirate Xaaron transformed into a tank, though I'm not against it.

In issues #168-#169 it's revealed that Xaaron's alt mode is a combat vehicle. Then issue #200 came with a booklet called "The Facts," in which it states that Emirate Xaaron "transforms into a small combat tank (Cybertronian design). But he hasn't used this for for hundreds of years and wonders now if his circuitry would stand the strain."

This post has been edited by Goktimus Prime: 26 April 2012 - 10:28 PM

[Hellscream85]

Goktimus Prime, on 26 April 2012 - 10:15 PM, said:

Tripredacus, on 26 April 2012 - 09:35 AM, said:

For some reason I would think that Omega Supreme's spark is in his chest aka Tank part. But the episode where they disconnect Omega Supreme's head to keep him alive while his body is repaired causes a problem here.

Most canonical evidence indicates that the head is the most vital component of a Transformer.
e.g.
+ When Shockwave nicked off with Optimus Prime's head, his body stood virtually lifeless inside the Ark while the head was still fully functional - able to interact with those around him and even pass on the energies of the Matrix to Buster Witwicky. Prime's body went rogue when the Decepticon-made false-head was attached to the body.
+ In the G1 ep where the Constructicons chopped up Prime's body, Prime's head was able to control parts of his body (once it was within range).
+ Terrorsaur's head seemed able to control his body in a similar (albeit more verbal) manner.
+ Waspinator's head once had to drag himself along by his tongue and rebuild himself.
+ In the G1 comics, the Autobot pre-Headmasters were effectively helpless once they removed their heads - an act of goodwill on the Autobots' behalf.
+ In the G1 cartoons when it was suggested that the Autobot pre-Headmasters should remove their heads, there was concern that their personas would perish, so Brainstorm told them to download their personalities into their tech specs meters^secondary memory modules in their chests! Allowing the Autobots to function autonomously without their heads which were then rebuilt into transformable head-armour for the Nebulans/humans.
+ In Animated once Henry Masterson (aka The Headmaster) removed a Transformer's head, he was able to assume full control of the body, while the head continued to function fine on its own.
+ Animated Starscream existed as a disembodied head for a while.
+ ROTF: Optimus Prime vs. Demolishor
+ ROTF: Optimus Prime vs. The Fallen ("Give me your face!")
+ DOTM: Optimus Prime vs. Sentinel Prime ("You betrayed yourself.")
...etc.

I guess in simple terms you can think of the chest-spark as a "heart" and the head containing the "brain" (cerebral circuits) -- cos evidently taking out the chest-spark is fatal too (e.g. TF1 Megatron, ROTF Optimus Prime etc.) - but it seems that the head is more important.

Hellscream85, on 26 April 2012 - 01:11 PM, said:

I don't think it was explicitly stated that Emirate Xaaron transformed into a tank, though I'm not against it.

In issues #168-#169 it's revealed that Xaaron's alt mode is a combat vehicle. Then issue #200 came with a booklet called "The Facts," in which it states that Emirate Xaaron "transforms into a small combat tank (Cybertronian design). But he hasn't used this for for hundreds of years and wonders now if his circuitry would stand the strain."

Hmmm, that explains that, I have to go by the miniscule amounts of U.K. material that was reprinted in the U.S. (namely the City Of Fear graphic novel) most of which don't include those extra's from the original printing.

[KFGatri]

Markusius, on 25 April 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

Perhaps the spark that exists between the multiple components of Omega Supreme could survive if only 1/3 or 2/3 were lost. Sort of how sectors are reduntant accross a raid array in servers and one fails. The failed drive/component can be rebuilt as long as all the drives/components are not lost.

My Omega Supreme concept is an updated total battlefield management strategy that consists of a drone, rocket, and a large tank (NOT on a track).

I long ago came to the conclusion that the only real part of Omega is the rocket, based on how things work in the cartoon. His rocket flies to its destination, and generally either the rest of his base mode appears out of his exhaust smoke, or the entire rest of his robot mode emerges from the rocket halves. And in the God Gambit, when he's low on power, he's stuck in rocket mode, while most TFs would be unable to stay in altmode when low on gas. So my theory is that the rocket is the only actual physical element to him; the rest of Omega is simply a solid light hologram or a forcefield of some sort. This would enable him to travel where needed without the concern of leaving essential parts behind. It would also explain why he wasn't used all that much - the solid light projectors would need a lot of power, especially in battle. He probably makes Trailbreaker look like Bumblebee when it comes to fuel economy.

Now when he was just a guardian robot he was probably fully mechanical, but was probably upgraded in an attempt to make him more mobile.

This post has been edited by KFGatri: 27 April 2012 - 06:00 AM

[KFGatri]

Goktimus Prime, on 26 April 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

Shadowpanther, on 25 April 2012 - 09:52 PM, said:

With combiners,If one or a few of them died or got extensive battle damage. they'll build newer individual combiner team members.

It is possible to still form a gestalt with a dead component, although the gestalt robot itself suffers from reduced physical attributes like speed, dexterity, mobility etc.

Wait what? <Checks link.> Oh. IDW, of course. Once again demonstrating why I don't read comics in general any more, and TF comics in particular. That's right up there with Cassandra Nova from the X-Men books in stupidity.

This post has been edited by KFGatri: 27 April 2012 - 06:17 AM